We had heard chatter last year that all varsity games would have 3 officials beginning in 2010. Three officials certainly make a difference, is their a current policy in place?
I know this has probably been discussed before, so my apologies for the redundancy.
Doesn't matter how many you have, they all suck! It's amazing these clowns get paid!
dead horse...that's a "duh" kind of a question, don't you think? won't be possible until soccer budgets increase.
If the referees who did ref in the high school league weren't so poorly schooled in soccer, then there wouldn't be such a high demand for three refs, then the budget wouldn't need to increase.
If you want 3 refs you have to pay for 3 refs. Obviously you would love to have 3 for every match but some schools and programs just can't afford it. Agreed, beating the dead horse this year. I have actually had some pretty decent refs this year but refs can be inconsistent, get over it, it is what it is.
I am a ref and I'd have to say there are some pretty bad ones out there, and the reason being is when new refs are brought on board they are not properly trained. They pass a rules test they only need to score a 65 out of 100 on. IMO, if you can't score at least an 85 you don't need to be out on the pitch. Plus in my area of the state there are no assessments for high school offials. They simply put them out there to fill a slot on a schedule.
I try to work with new officials that I come in contact with. But some just don't seem interested in getting better, just getting a pay check. I think multiple assessments during the season would improve the quality of officiating.
With that said we do have many dedicated officials in this state. They work hard to improve and be fair and consistant with their calls. Please remember that officiating is a thankless job. Most of us do it for the love of the game. It is a lot harder than most people know. So the next time you parents/fans/coaches want to whine and complain about a hand ball not called or any foul you see as so obvious, try picking up the whistle. You might just get a different perspective on things plus an ear full im sure.
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Doesn't matter how many you have, they all suck! It's amazing these clowns get paid!
Well said!
With that said we do have many dedicated officials in this state. They work hard to improve and be fair and consistant with their calls. Please remember that officiating is a thankless job. Most of us do it for the love of the game. It is a lot harder than most people know.
Agree with all of this! I am the first to say that I often see some wacky calls out there, but I would not call a game for all the tea in China. Still, a ref with two A.R.'s would obviously improve the high school game situation. Any one who has watched these games can tell you of blown calls that would have presumably gone otherwise if an a/r or a linesman had been there.
I am not sure why it continues to surprise me that the people who are so willing to add disparaging remarks about folks are the least likely to even attempt to walk in their shoes... As a referee I do enjoy the game the most when players play good soccer, which means few fouls and great play... Unfortunately that does not seem to happen as often as it should... Agreed, the HS Referee System is a bit weak, but that is how it works with HS, if you want to see improvement, change the system... Results will follow after that, as in USSF... You are welcome at anytime to swing by one of my games and chat, I do not hide behind a pseudonym, call me out at at game and we can chat, would love to have another dedicated referee in the ranks...
Honest question here. Who decides to have/pay for 3 Refs at a high school game. I thought someone said the AD's but do the home school decide the refs for thier games or are the costs splt between the two schools for each game?
The number of refs is decided by the host school. Some schools always have 3 refs, they tend to be the ones that have large fan support. Others only have 2 refs becuase they cannot afford to pay for the 3rd referee. If fans aren't coming to the game, no ticket sales are generated, and thus lack of funds to pay for officials.
Some coaches look at thier schedule and determine that certain games will require a 3rd set of eyes and request a 3rd ref for just certain matches (ie. a match that may determine the region champion, a heated rivalry match, etc...).
Bottom line, refs cost money. Some schools have money to afford 3, others have barely enough money to sponsor a team and can barely afford 2 refs. I have never met a coach that said they would always like to have 2 refs. 3 is ideal, but not always economical.
What is cost difference from two to three per game? In two man system they each get more than the AR's would get in 3 man right?
Roughly $35 - $40, plus travel.
So we sit through the pain of two ref games for the lack $40 per game?
I say pain becasue as my son is a ref I know the refs can not see all, and also often see much more than we give them credit for. Six eyes are better than two, but $40 a game? Thats it?
should start doing bake sales and carwashes
Region 3 does it best to schedule 3 refs for all games. And the majority of refs do the best job they can. It should be mandatory that every parent ref a game and see how it is on the pitch vs. sitting up in the stands. Much different!
What there are about 8-10 home games a year? I am assuming playoff already have 3 refs right?
So we need about $400 a year more to make it 3 per home game?
Considering most have never even played it would be a true learning experience for many.
Sounds like a great theme for a reality show! (hey, I better run and get a patent on that idea!)
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So we sit through the pain of two ref games for the lack $40 per game?
Well, it's actually more than that. Travel can be anywhere from $10 to $30 or more depending on how far the ref has to travel. And if you have two games add another $35 or $44.
and would prob be hard to get a ref to come out for just one game if you decided to go with 2 for jv and 3 varsity. I know that I would only be looking for double headers in order to maximize my trip.
Here in Northern Illinois, we do the 2 refs for the JV and then have 3 for the varsity match. Since we have a lot of high schools in a relatively small area, there is no problem getting the refs to come and do one game. But then again, you get paid $65 for the one game as the center. Works out pretty good, and the games are usually done quite well. You may want to look into something like that down there.
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Here in Northern Illinois, we do the 2 refs for the JV and then have 3 for the varsity match. You may want to look into something like that down there.
That's what we do in district 4.
An answer and a question/thought: The home school decides when to ask for 3 referees. Most of the schools in the Columbia ask for 3 for region matches. And in response to the person who said they would not travel for one match, I do this on many nights. It may not "maximize" my time but it does allow for 3 referees when needed or requested. And that is why I referee, for the kids and the game.
Now for my question, we all hear that the reason we do not get 3 for all varsity matches is the cost. Why does basketball always get 3 referees for all varsity (boys and girls) games? If I am correct it is mandated by the high school league. Just think about this, the basketball referee covers a court about a third the size of a soccer pitch with less than half the players on the court at one time.
Just some food for thought.
1. touche...i guess some would be willing to do 1 per night.
2. basketball gets 3 b/c it generates enough money at the gate to afford it. at least, that is the answer that is usually given.
Great moment in officiating from last night's JV game...I know it doesn't quite fit the thread but I thought I'd share, and everyone knows I seldom comment on that topic.
Under a 3-man system, Berkeley is awarded an indirect free kick from about 25 yards out. The ball is placed and the center ref turns and walks away from the ball.
Player A runs across, steps on the ball moving it slightly forward. Player B steps up and drills the ball under the crossbar into the net to put Berkeley up 2-1.
About 15 seconds later, the center ref calls, "No goal, the kick was indirect." Under loud protest from the bench that the kicker was actually the second to play the ball, he finally turns to AR1 on the near side and asks, "Did someone else touch it?" AR1 shrugs and replies, "I didn't see." AR2 on the far side who had the best angle stands uncomfortably shifting from foot to foot.
"Nobody saw the second touch--no goal."
So yeah...3-man system isn't the answer to all problems.
Almost forgot...second great moment from the same match...
White team takes kickoff after the half. Ball moves backward rather than forward on the first touch. Center ref correctly stops play and then restarts with a kickoff--for the YELLOW team.
(8-1-3: The ball shall be kicked while it is stationary on the ground in the center of the field of play. A goal may be scored directly from the kickoff. The ball is in play when it moves forward. If the kickoff is taken improperly, it must be retaken.)
Hey Coach ,sounds like a 4+ man ref system was probably needed.When its not the team your rooting for it is comical however,when it is your team and these kind of calls take place its a nightmare.
IMO - you cannot ref a HS game with only 2 refs. Well at least at the 3A and 4A levels. The players are too big and fast at the varsity levels. At the varsity level you have the crafty club players and then some thugs both of which will push the rules. The 3rd ref does help with discipline during the game. Yes the 3 man system is not perfect but neither is the World Cup. Just ask Ireland after Henry!
In the first scenario it appears that the center ref did his job and if he doesn't get help I consider that part of the game. I would venture to bet that very few offsides calls were questioned during the game. I would rather a ref not make a call if he didn't see it then make a "I think" call. The 3rd ref should put the AR and center ref in position to make the calls. That is all we can ask of these humanoids!
The second scenario is just not understanding the rules.
Coach, The scenario of an IDFK that you described has to be understood from Referee point of view. Not all rules (high school uses rules, USSF uses laws) are as black and white as we wish they could be. The rule states that a goal can not be scored directly from an Indirect Free Kick. This being said, the ball is kicked and a second player must play the ball before a goal is scored. These questions come up often during referee discussions, 1. what is "kicked"? and 2. what is "played"?
I view running over the top of a ball as not being "kicked". If as you stated the ball did move, then the ball has been "played" but not kicked. I would assume that the referee was requesting assistance from his "assistant referee" as to whether he observed the ball movement.
IMHO the referee placed themselves in an improper position if they were not able to observe the ball the entire time after placing it for the IDFK.
Coach, I would give that feedback to the assignor in your area. I agree soccer16 in respect that the AR's should be more involved in the game, especially watching play away from the ball. Very rarely see AR's calling fouls. In the old days when I use to coach I told the refs before the games the 'tricks' I did with ball movement on corner and indirect kicks to make them aware of rule and our intent. Also totally agree 3 man only option, especially on the varsity boys side.
What is the difference between a played or kicked ball?
Are not all balls played or kicked if they are moving?
The idea behind an indirect is that the ball can not be struck or kicked directly on goal..Correct? So if a ball is played or kicked in any other direction but goal makes it alright..correct?
Yeah, I don't think there is a distinction about just how much force has to be exerted on the ball to make the difference between "playing" and "kicking" the ball. If it travels about 12 inches as a result of being struck by a foot, it was "kicked," only kicked gently. Put a couple of kids in the back seat of the car and try to explain to them, "no, sorry--your brother isn't 'kicking' you unless you go flying off in the air; he's only 'playing' you with his foot."
All joking aside, the issue was that the center appeared to have turned away from the play when the ball was struck and didn't see that two players had contacted the ball. The AR on the near side closest the goal was doing his job and watching for offside. The AR on the far side at midfield who had a direct line of sight on the kick wasn't directly consulted. Still, I was a spectator at this one and my perspective is probably not much better than that of any other observer outside the area of play.
On the positive side, the officiating on fouls and offside seemed fair and in the best interest of player safety.
Unfortunately, that would be one of the technical things that seems to be lacking in SC refs. I was always told that you should always be facing the ball, otherwise you may get hit by it!! Especially on free kicks. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a team touch the ball on a corner then dribble in only to have the ref send them back because he wasn't paying attention. Just wish the refs were a bit more consistant. You can coach to consistancy whether it is bad or good.