ESR May 14 - SC Soccer

SC Soccer

Eastside High is the only team in the latest Elite Soccer Rankings top 25 from South Carolina - yet they only placed one player on the All State squad -

Of course Irmo only has one, Lexington none, and Hilton Head only two. I guess among the four best teams in 4A and 3A there are only four outstanding players. I always thought All State translated into the best players - I guess not in South Carolina

Dang! Are you a disgruntled player or parent? Maybe the whole of some teams are better than the individual players! Look at Lexington!

Neither but you are telling me that Lexington doesnt have one player deserving of recognition?
I personally played basketball and no player who didnt make the finals was named All State- it was reserved for the best players on the best teams and the POY was always from the winning team - it shouldnt be whos best on your team it should be whos best on the best teams because they have obviously proven it on the field- of course in our PC society we dont want to hurt feelings so its better to spread it around

Illogical. Team rankings and finals/championships are TEAM accomplishments, and for those you have team honors. Individual All-Star honors are for individual players--whose abilities and efforts should be looked at separately from the overall performance of the TEAM. The best player on the best team is not necessarily the best player in the league. A team that can field 11 B+ level players with a deep bench is likely to win a championship vs. a team with two A+ players, half a dozen B's, a few C's and a shallow bench. That does nothing to change the fact that the A+ players are still A+ players and are still individually stronger players than any members of the all-B+ team that went to the finals.

But you would agree that the leading scorer and assist maker on the #1 team in the State who played against and beat 7 of the teams who put players on the all state team and outplayed them all should have at least gotten some consideration. Quit fooling yourself its not about who the best players are, its who is an SCHSSA member who contributes $$$ -

Perhaps your son was not nominated. The coach would have to nominate him in the meeting.

The player I am referencing was definitely nominated as his name appeared on the nomination list that was posted by Heise along with 5 others from that team

Wow, that is alot of nominations from one team, but not unprecedented. Usually, coaches are asked to prioritize their nominations. Also usually, Clash and N/S players are automatics.
I have been in many of these meetings and have yet to run across anything unfair. Coaches just plead their cases for their players, usually supported by other committee members who have also seen the player.

I know how they were ranked and its not how they were selected, but I understand if one is not in the favor of the Prince of West Columbia one is not considered and sometimes one is even lied to in spite of evidence to the contrary-

Spoke to 3 members of 3A All State committee(2 I know very well) today at state finals and they all said the same thing--no coach from your region was even at the meeting and only one nomination(assuming the school was Eastside--and if not, that is my bad) was received and that player was selected based on other coaches from upperstate that had seen him play.
I don't know what list you reference, but these 3 say no such list exsited.
I will say this, after watching them play today, they are an excellent side with much talent.

There are politics and politicking involved. It is what it is.

Last year the girl with the most goals AND assists on her team was not even named to the region team, but other girls were named a head of her mainly because she was a sophomore those girls were seniors. (This team won the region too so it isn't like they are were a poor team)

Anthony I am referencing the original post that contained the names of all the nominees for all state that contained the names of six players from Eastside that was posted by K. Heise. I am not doubting what the other coaches are telling you that they never saw it since that post has now been conveniently deleted from this site by the administrator. I printed a copy of it and will be happy to scan it and send it to you. I agree that both Eastside and Hilton Head have a lot of talent- I would be interested in your opinion on who some of the better players were- I would also applaud Eastsides coach for reaching the finals in his first year

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Anthony I am referencing the original post that contained the names of all the nominees for all state that contained the names of six players from Eastside that was posted by K. Heise. I am not doubting what the other coaches are telling you that they never saw it since that post has now been conveniently deleted from this site by the administrator. I printed a copy of it and will be happy to scan it and send it to you. I agree that both Eastside and Hilton Head have a lot of talent- I would be interested in your opinion on who some of the better players were- I would also applaud Eastsides coach for reaching the finals in his first year

lvrpul -- Per SurveyMonkey -- the official tally of the All-State nominations, your son Conner Donohue was nominated properly at 2;08 pm on April 30, 2013. I have researched it and you are correct. I was wrong on the nomination as I confused it with the All-Star nominations.

However, no Region II coach showed up for the All-State meeting. The only Region II coaches that are SCHSSCA/SCACA members are Kevin Mahlan of Berea, Jorge Santos of Greer, and Craig Thompson of Pickens. I can only encourage you to have Normar Rodriguez (or whomever the next Eastside coach is) join the SCACA/SCHSSCA and get involved. David Craig is the last coach from Eastside HS to be actively involved with the association. Simple as that.

3A coaches in attendance included: Troy Alexander (Hartsville), Kevin Darlington (Gilbert), Mike Estes (Walhalla), Kevin Heise (Brookland-Cayce), Kyle Heise (SCSoccer.com), Kellie Herndon (Chapin), Jason Himmelsbach (Myrtle Beach), Clark McCarthy (Dreher), Wayne Quinlan (Hilton Head Island), and Sean Vick (Clinton).

Thank you for correcting this, I appreciate your candor- Good luck next year and maybe Eastside will get the opportunity to play BC-probably be a pretty good match since they got similar results against HHI in the post season. I would think that the administration of the school would be willing to pay the membership fees for the coaches but if I have to I will pay it myself for the next coach.
Kevin I also wanted to make you aware that Nomar tried to join but the membership had closed before he was named as the coach-I hope he returns next year so the boys get some continuity- they have a lot of talent returning and if a new coach comes in it will be the thrid coach the seniors will have in four years which is not really fair to them

Lvrpul--Glad Kevin could straighten this out. To be honest, I was in the concessions on lower state side most of the day(actually had a pretty good view). I studied both sides looking for weaknesses Wayne or Coach Nomar might attack--I could find none, even through 4 or 5 subs on both sides.
It truly felt like a game it was a shame someone had to lose.

I have always had a tremendous respect for Eastside since playing them in the final in 84 where it was my pleasure to watch who I still contend was the best freshman I have ever seen, Hunter Richardson.
I consider Frank Riddlehoover and Wayne Quinlan good friends, but have not been fortunate enough to meet some of you most recent coaches.
Always been a strong program with a rich tradition. Good luck to you and your son.

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Eastside High is the only team in the latest Elite Soccer Rankings top 25 from South Carolina - yet they only placed one player on the All State squad -

I saw the AAA Championship game and outside of the players named All-State (2 from Hilton Head and 1 from Eastside) I couldn't have picked out another that deserved the honor. In fact, I thought both teams were pretty mediocre compared to other Finals I've seen. Of course, I thought the same thing about the AAAA game even though it was very exciting. Outside of that though not what I would say is tremendous talent.

Hahahaha! Arfa are you familiar with Matthew Newberry? He was very impressed with some of the play and its funny he never mentioned the players you refered to and I consider him infinitely more qualified than anyone in the entire state to judge talent.

Matthew Newberry from LFC? http://www.liverpoolfc.com/team/academy/staff/matthew-newberry

this guy was in Gilbert?

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Thank you for correcting this, I appreciate your candor- Good luck next year and maybe Eastside will get the opportunity to play BC-probably be a pretty good match since they got similar results against HHI in the post season. I would think that the administration of the school would be willing to pay the membership fees for the coaches but if I have to I will pay it myself for the next coach.
Kevin I also wanted to make you aware that Nomar tried to join but the membership had closed before he was named as the coach-I hope he returns next year so the boys get some continuity- they have a lot of talent returning and if a new coach comes in it will be the thrid coach the seniors will have in four years which is not really fair to them

Then my suggestion to you, besides pulling stick from hole, would be to prepay the coach's dues before the season if you run off another coach. Kevin, Kyle, and a few others basically do everything anyways so all they ask is that you show up. On second thought, maybe you should be Eastside's coach. You seem like a really viable candidate. You could then insure that your son gets nominated instead of ranting, crying, and stomping your feet with illegible text on a message board.

All-State teams should include the best (however-many) players in the state, regardless of team records, championships, etc.
I tend to downplay statistics (a bit) simply because I know that simple numbers do not an all-star make. Example #1: Player A is an excellent passing MF. His teammates, Players B, C and D are poor finishers. Result: Player A finishes with a decent, but not eye-popping 12 assists, instead of 25 assists. Example #2: Player A is a decent passing MF. His teammates, B, C, and D are great finishers AND his team's official scorer is (how shall we say this?) generous. Player A finishes with 28 assists.
The real key to All-State selections SHOULD be the "eyeball" test. Unfortunately, nobody sees everyone, much less, sees everyone multiple times (the only way to judge fairly). So we go by name, reputation, numbers and (when available) nominations and recommendations. And people get honored, or left out, inappropriately.
I know first-hand what it means to kids, because I saw what it meant to my son. As "the adults" in the room, we should do our level best to make the process as transparent and representative as possible.
One more thing. With respect to the gent from Liverpool, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that even HE would have to see a kid multiple times before he could make an informed judgment.

Good then we agree. In the interest of "the kids" the team's coach and the program (assuming you strive for the latter classification - there's a big different) should make sure that they are represented in the SCHSSCA by paying the dues and showing up to nomination meetings. Unless of course you're missing the heading on the form which plainly clarifies that it is an SCHSSCA award...that's South Carolina HS Soccer Coaches Assoc for those wondering

I highly doubt Nike has any input on who is a generation Adidas athlete.

The problem here is that most parents, you and lvrpoo included, can't wrap their head around the previous point and the fact that it is a process that should be participated in if you want some sort of say. I honestly can't think of anything more transparent then association members showing up to meetings and presenting arguments for players on their behalf. This isn't some popularity contest other than the fact that if your school or coach doesn't participate, your player has a greater chance of exclusion. The devotion to the players is a two way street - anyone who has tried to get a child recruited to college knows this.

Actually, I'm ENTIRELY with you. I think EVERY athletic department in the state should pony up membership fees for their coaches' professional affiliations, and coaches SHOULD participate as part of their job description. I hate reading that a deserving kid may have been passed over because nobody from his region attended. I also hate reading that an undeserving kid (and let's all just admit there have been a few of those) is selected because his coach and region have disproportionate representation in the process.
And you're absolutely right about the two-way street, with one proviso. I truly hope that a widely recognized great kid/talent isn't locked out because his school/coach/AD didn't do their due diligence. I truly hope there's a path for THAT kid's selection. Because in a fair and transparent process, you don't down a kid because of his coach.

From what I have read above, it has become clear that in SC the best players are not always recognized. To me, this makes a mockery of the system. Who cares if a person doesn't pay into another corrupt system. The best players need to be recognized, and if this isn't happening, everyone needs to back out and let the orginization fail, or become a joke, or both.

James,

Not that the system isn't flawed. Every system is, but your post doesn't make any sense. The SCHSSCA hands out the awards. Technically they can give it to whoever they want. I can't vote on the Heisman, wish I could. Does that mean it'ss totally flawed and should be considered corrupt?

James you would be correct- if you will put all of my posts together you would see that A)I was told that certain players were never nominated B)that these players names never came up in discussion C)a retraction and admission that these players were in fact nominated - this means that the players names were never presented for consideration even though they were properly nominated - if that isnt bordering on corrupt i dont know what is

And to SUAP - they should restrict the nominations to only members and not call it all state because it doesnt truly represent ALL of the state

And to SUAP - they should restrict the nominations to only members and not call it all state because it doesnt truly represent ALL of the state

I believe that is the direction we are heading. Just like in order to be named to a NSCAA All-American or All-South Region Team, the coach of the nominated player MUST be a member. It simply encourages professional organization membership. Some of the other auxiliary organizations of the SCACA already implement this method. The SCHSSCA has been slow to adopt this measure entirely due to the aforementioned arguments - A deserving player may be omitted due to the negligence or oversight of his/her coach.

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James you would be correct- if you will put all of my posts together you would see that A)I was told that certain players were never nominated B)that these players names never came up in discussion C)a retraction and admission that these players were in fact nominated - this means that the players names were never presented for consideration even though they were properly nominated - if that isnt bordering on corrupt i dont know what is

And to SUAP - they should restrict the nominations to only members and not call it all state because it doesnt truly represent ALL of the state

Also, a coach of a team may block a player from being voted on by the Committee due to grades, classroom or off the field behavior, work ethic, etc.

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James you would be correct- if you will put all of my posts together you would see that A)I was told that certain players were never nominated B)that these players names never came up in discussion C)a retraction and admission that these players were in fact nominated - this means that the players names were never presented for consideration even though they were properly nominated - if that isnt bordering on corrupt i dont know what is

And to SUAP - they should restrict the nominations to only members and not call it all state because it doesnt truly represent ALL of the state

Then your son would never even have a chance to be nominated because your school doesn't participate year after year so....I guess you really wouldn't have any credible leg to complain from and you could stop spilling all those sour grapes from your mouth.

And no it doesn't need a different name unless simpletons like yourself can't read the full title and link the award with the group that hands it out. It's just a name. If you want to cut a hard line it would simply refer to all-state from member schools.

Further if you want a complete list of the best talent you need to check out WockaFlockaMyers list in the girls forums. Transparency in abundance.

Well he may just be moving to a school that has a member coach bc the administration at EHS decided they werent going to bring Nomar back-very poorly handled way to treat a great guy -

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Well he may just be moving to a school that has a member coach bc the administration at EHS decided they werent going to bring Nomar back-very poorly handled way to treat a great guy -

Must have had a reason lvrpul. Maybe his not promoting HS soccer was one of them via not being involved in the organizations mentioned earlier.

As for your son, are you moving physical addresses or just taking advantage of the new "principals agreement" put into play this year? Should be interesting.

By the way, who is the new coach?

No there was no reason as I already queried the AD and not given a solid answer- the new cocah is a guy from Furman United Soccer Club