22-1 - SC Soccer

Is the 22-1 score for April 5th between Pinewood Prep and Northwood Academy accurate? If so why?

Apparently it is accurate. I am looking at the scoreboard and the scores are ridiculous. They have some wins like 17 to 0, 10 to 0, and 17 to 1. Have no clue what is going on there, but come on. Once you get past 6 or 7, maybe even 8, you have to make it nearly impossible for your team to score.

>> http://www.eurosportscoreboard.com/page_team.php?id=4261&year=2011 <<

Yea there is no reason at all to score that many on a team, especially after they already put in 17 on Northwood earlier. Im guessing they wanted to embarass them at their home the second game?? Pretty classless if you ask me.

I notice the HS coaches are noticeably absent on this post. I haven't a clue where to begin. 22-1 Really. Can anyone with soccer knowledge defend a 22-1 score ? anyone.

Im a high school coach, and played soccer my entire life. Im with you Ilovethisgame, No clue how to defend that one. I can't imagine allowing my team to put up that many goals on a team, much less 17 the first time!!

Are their 17-22 different players scoring or is one player going for a scoring record? There are many teams that have the capability of running up the score but choose not to. ex. look at Mauldin's game/score against Greenville Tech and Travelers Rest. I am sure they had the opportunity to score more than 5 goals, but chose to keep it reasonable. Maybe there should be a mercy rule like in baseball.

From what I hear it was 15-0 and then Northwood scored and then Pinewood got mad and ran it up to 22. When it gets that high soccer stops being fun, regardless of how competitive you are. Pinewood's coach better revisit why she is a coach in the first place.

Wow. As a coach I have been winning games easily and we've lost the shutout, and of course you are disappointed, but you don't "get mad" and pour in 7 more. Surprised the administration their doesn't say something.

Why would you post that kind of score anyway. If I was in that situation I would forfeit every game I had with them so they do not have the satisfaction of running the score up again. Pinewood might find other teams not putting them on the schedule next year if they keep it up.

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I notice the HS coaches are noticeably absent on this post. I haven't a clue where to begin. 22-1 Really. Can anyone with soccer knowledge defend a 22-1 score ? anyone.

I think perhaps the reason that HS coaches are noticeably absent from this discussion is that we seem to have it every year for the last few years, at least two or three times per season. How many times can you weigh in on the same topic? It's been discussed and discussed, and then someone else sees a different score that offends them and then it's a whole new outrage again.

Truth is, most people don't say too much because the main thing a discussion like this does is just call attention to the disparity between the two teams. Nothing can be said to defend one team without making the other look worse, and where's the sportsmanship in that?

I think it's just a compulsion...not only do people demand an explanation for running up a score, but supporters of the winning team seem to always feel the need to explain the LACK of running up a score when restrictions are used. Very seldom do you see a score posted as "Well-Established Club Player-Stacked Team 5, Developing Team with Hard-Working but Inexperienced Players 0." Someone almost always feels the need to say that Team A "finished the game with 8 on the field," "spent the entire second half passing the ball around," "played second and third string almost the entire match," or posts a 10-0 score and feels the need to report, for accuracy's sake only, of course, that the game was called at halftime--all this rather than just posting a reasonably respectable score and letting people think what they will. Is any of that any more sportsmanlike or respectful to the other team than going ahead and playing the game?

Honestly, as someone who has coached a developing team through several seasons of receiving high double-digit scores, the maddest I've ever been was when the dominant team would make it clear they were toying...getting a breakaway, faking as if to shoot, then turning and dribbling back away from the goal. I'm all for restrictions--make it difficult to score to try to even the playing field--but if halfway through the game (or before) you're telling your team absolutely NOT to score, then you're not giving the developing team a chance to figure out how to STOP a team that's trying to score.

I remember a few years ago my girls were playing against one of the stronger teams on our schedule and we gave up 7 goals...the other team in the last ten minutes was physically and vocally letting us know they intended to score more. How did my girls feel about that? Proud as they could be..."Coach, they didn't let up on us...they didn't score all they wanted to because we didn't let them!"

That said, no excuse IMHO for leaving all your starters in and giving them free rein to score any way they want in a lopsided game just to boost stats, or put a team back in their place after they finally get one in...but I don't know if that is the case or not. Just hearsay. All I can say is hats off to Northwood for having the heart to keep attacking and get a goal in! That one score probably meant more to them than the 22 that went the other way.

Very good post coach chass. Funny thing is Pinewood got hammered against Wando 7-1, that is a 29 goal differential which is just staggering to me. If I am Pinewood prep I would schedule more quality teams like Wando to avoid getting beat in a 7-1 pounding.

I'm a panther fan and I just wanted to let everyone know that the game against Wando, Pinewood had the JV keeper in who never played in a competitive game before. Pinewood has played competitive schools this season including Eastside and Woodruff and beat both teams, they are also playing Academic Magnet, Bishop England, and the were suppose to play Summerville but they backed out.

And to talk about the 22-1 score Pinewood can't help who's in their region. What would you rather them to do? Pass the ball around and have them chase or play actual soccer like they suppose to do. Pinewood has played players down before and put their second string in during other games.

As a side note Pinewood never posted the score in the newspaper nor on the score thread.

True they can't help their region, but why put in 22 after a 17 point win over them earlier?? You know going in that's a win; get to 10 and call it off.

Do private schools have any influence relative to selection or application to the league in which they play? I notice Christ Church, St. Joseph's, Bishop England, Southside Christian and others play SCSHL A/AA rather than SCISA. Of course there's no guarantee that a team with the current roster strength of Pinewood wouldn't find themselves with an opportunity to run it up, but maybe the opportunities would be fewer and not quite as grand. At least it would give the teams like Northwood Academy, who finds themselves on the short end of an aggregate 2 game score of 39-1, a bit of a break and Pinewood greater opportunity to have to work for that many goals. Then again, staying SCISA is a great route to state championships and setting individual scoring records. Is there some regulation that keeps them in SCISA?

Private schools pay to be a member of SCISA. They can be a member of any league they choose. The schools you mention above choose to play in the SCHSL.

As far as beating someone 22-1 in soccer goes it is just crazy. I guess sportsmanship is not part of the soccer experience at this particular school.

Did the game get physical in the 2nd half? I'd imagine it would be hard for players to keep their composure when the score gets that out of hand, especially when it was the 2nd time it happened.

Glad to see Wando rout them so they saw how it feels.

17-0, 17-1, 22-1.

No excuse for these type of scores. 8-0 should be the max.

My advice, next time someone can- BOMB THEM!!!

*sigh*

These threads are ridiculously annoying.

22-1 is extremely proficient in the scoring department. Games of this significant difference should be called at half. 10-0 at half is insurmountable. Just end it there and let everyone go home instead of watching 40 more minutes of embarrassment to the game.

So, PPrep can't choose the teams in its region, but it can choose the league it plays in. And, 2010 goal differential against SCISA schools... 110 for vs. 8 against, and against SCSHSL schools... 6 for vs. 11 against. 2011 goal differential at this point against SCISA schools... 80 for vs. 6 against, and against SCSHSL schools... 9 for vs. 11 against. Almost looks like that scoring proficiency disappears, when they step out of SCISA. Maybe Sideline Observer's "JV keeper in who never played in a competitive game" asterisk on the Wando score should be accompanied with a "against SCISA schools" asterisk on any individual stat sheets.

Given Wando's 6-0 win last year and 7-1 win this year, maybe the more appropriate asterisk applied should be "with a 6 goal lead Wando backed off the weaker team" allowing the little team from down the road to save some face.

I would just like to understand what the coach is thinking and what she is ultimately trying to teach these girls.

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So, PPrep can't choose the teams in its region, but it can choose the league it plays in. And, 2010 goal differential against SCISA schools... 110 for vs. 8 against, and against SCSHSL schools... 6 for vs. 11 against. 2011 goal differential at this point against SCISA schools... 80 for vs. 6 against, and against SCSHSL schools... 9 for vs. 11 against. Almost looks like that scoring proficiency disappears, when they step out of SCISA. Maybe Sideline Observer's "JV keeper in who never played in a competitive game" asterisk on the Wando score should be accompanied with a "against SCISA schools" asterisk on any individual stat sheets.

Given Wando's 6-0 win last year and 7-1 win this year, maybe the more appropriate asterisk applied should be "with a 6 goal lead Wando backed off the weaker team" allowing the little team from down the road to save some face.

Great post , right on the money.

Outstanding Post Ilovethisgame.

We all have played numbers down or possession for 20 minutes to keep the score respectable.

To avoid a 22-1 score I think it would take more than 20 minutes.

There are several issues here. First and foremost, it sounds like the back end of a league home-and-home. Neither coach gets to "schedule" the opponent; it's scheduled for them. Still, knowing the likelihood of a rout, BOTH coaches should endeavor to avoid same: the Pinewood coach by substituting early and often and emphasizing elements OTHER than scoring, and the Northwood coach by doing a better job preparing his/her team.
One thing I will say here: If the Pinewood coach had any more starters than necessary on the field in the second half, he/she is a fool. Seeing anyone injured during a rout hurts. Seeing a key starter injured while trying to roll up a score is, in my mind, a firing offense.

As Coach Chass indicates, a lengthy thread arises each year on this issue. Here's a link to last year's if anyone would like to read it:
What is enough? 20-0 in a high school game

Common sense is enough. And by the way, the school on the wrong end of the score faces a different problem. As in (generally speaking) poor participation, poor coaching, or BOTH.
A personal anecdote here. Some years ago, I coached boys' basketball at one of the smallest private schools in the state. We seldom had more than 2 or 3 upperclassmen on our roster, and often started as many as 3-4 freshmen/sophomores. We were EVERBODY'S homecoming opponent. One year, the top team in our Region left its starters on the floor with under 2 minutes remaining, trying to score 100 points.
As a coach, all you can ask your kids to do is give their best effort and maintain dignity and self-respect. And if the shoe is on the other foot, you shoe compassion.
Sadly, that's not a strong point for many high school coaches, precisely because ADs and administrators don't call coaches on the carpet for blitzing opponents.
I always felt part of my job was to advocate for all kids,not just the ones in blue and white uniforms. You do THAT by being a sportsman.

Coach P, unfortunately each year the score that rekindles the fire seems to be going up. It's like a friend of mine used to say, "Buy 'm books and buy 'em books and all they do is eat the pages."

PPrep also already posted a 17-1 score against Orangeburg Prep earlier this year. Let's see after the second meeting between PPrep and OPrep this week if PPrep is capable of reading more pages than they eat.

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Coach P, unfortunately each year the score that rekindles the fire seems to be going up. It's like a friend of mine used to say, "Buy 'm books and buy 'em books and all they do is eat the pages."

PPrep also already posted a 17-1 score against Orangeburg Prep earlier this year. Let's see after the second meeting between PPrep and OPrep this week if PPrep is capable of reading more pages than they eat.

Well said. Let's see if it is all about padding the stats.

I saw in The Morning News today a baseball score of Chesterfield 37-1 CA Johnson and about spit up my coffee. Disgusting, but it happens in all sports. I know we got beat by Goose Creek in girls basketball something like 80-12. Is it any different than Byrnes beating teams in football 75-0?

Hey mane, anybody seen da brakes bein beatin off my boys at LR? Dat stuff is wack!

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Coach P, unfortunately each year the score that rekindles the fire seems to be going up. It's like a friend of mine used to say, "Buy 'm books and buy 'em books and all they do is eat the pages."

PPrep also already posted a 17-1 score against Orangeburg Prep earlier this year. Let's see after the second meeting between PPrep and OPrep this week if PPrep is capable of reading more pages than they eat.

Well said. Let's see if it is all about padding the stats.

So when we see someones impressive individual stats like 40 goals and 25 assists; I hope they circle those games with an asterik below the stats.

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Hey mane, anybody seen da brakes bein beatin off my boys at LR? Dat stuff is wack!

SEEN THIS ON A COUPLE OF TSHIRTS AT THE FLEA MARKET! PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP THE LR PROGRAM!

CHANGE IS COMIN TO HOPKINS AREA!

As "they" say:

Wake up, wake up, wake up it's the 1st of the month
To get up, get up, get up so cash your checks and get up

HEY MAN, HOW YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT SONG?

I love lunch time and there is only one Homeboy Maurice for me! Too bad I'm stuck eating a school lunch - yuck!

THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT...

RACIST SOB

S.A.D NO H!

I guess they read this board. A squeeker last week- 7-0 over Orangeburg Prep.

This team is either really good or is not challenged in matches. Does the keeper ever touch the ball?

My guess is the SCISA league is not as challenging as the High school league. I think that is why Bishop England, Christ Church, Southside Christian and just recently St. Josephs all elect to play in the High school league vs. the SCISA. Maybe Pinewood Prep and Cardinal Newman need to switch to the high school league if they want a more challenging league. They should allow the reverse as well - let a small rural public high school elect to play in the independent league, change it to a developmental league. It would probably be more enjoyable for all. I can't imagine it is that much fun or beneficial for either team when there is such an imbalance.

scwame - sorry for the long post, but a few thoughts on the whole question of playing in SCISA.

First, I think the reasons that Pinewood and the other schools remain in SCISA has almost nothing to do with women's soccer (or soccer in general). A few other reasons to consider:

SCISA is not simply an athletic league and provides numerous other benefits for the small private schools (primarily art, music, drama, etc).

From an athletics standpoint, the decision is made based on the level of competition across all sports not just soccer.

Location is a major factor. (I believe that this was a factor in St. Joe leaving SCISA. There are more 1A schools in the Greenville area (4-5) versus SCISA schools (0)). The exact opposite is true in Charleston (1 1A school, 6 SCISA schools).

Size of school � Pinewood and Cardinal Newman are two of the largest SCISA schools (Pinewood has about 250 high school students), but would be one of the smallest 1A/2A schools. Academic Magnet is three times as large and BE is almost four times as large. Even Christ Church is larger than both of them.

Second I think the idea that SCISA is less competitive is not accurate. There is no simple way to compare, but if we look at the massey ratings from last year � you can see that SCISA is just as competitive as 1A and maybe even 2A.

SCISA vs 1A (Top 10 Schools)
Pinewood Prep (SCISA) #12
Card Newman (SCISA) #21
Christ Church (1A) #22
Academic Magnet(1A) #31
Hilton Head Prep(SCISA) #33
St Joseph's (SCISA/1A) #40
Hilton Head Chr(SCISA) #55
Heathwood Hall(SCISA) #58
Porter-Gaud(SCISA) #62
Hammond(SCISA) #63

SCISA vs 2A (top 10 Schools)
Waccamaw(2A) #5
Pinewood Prep(SCISA) #12
Card Newman(SCISA) #21
Woodruff(2A) #25
Bp England(2A) #27
Hilton Head Prep(SCISA) #33
Gilbert(2A) #37
St Joseph's(SCISA) #40
Barnwell(2A) #41
Hilton Head Chr(SCISA) #55

It's not to say that some teams in SCISA are are not competitive..I think he was saying the competition within the league is not as competitive..

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It's not to say that some teams in SCISA are are not competitive..I think he was saying the competition within the league is not as competitive..

Exactly. The comments were not meant as any disrespect to the SCISA division but just surmised by the Pinewood Prep and Cardinal Newman's goal differential with other SCISA teams, but then I guess you have some degree of that in all the divisions from 1A to 4A. Interesting though on the Massey ratings for last year since Academic Magnet beat both Pinewood Prep and Cardinal Newman during the season. Christ Church also beat Pinewood Prep. All of them looked like close competitive games though (1 goal difference). The location makes sense though. I didn't realize there were so many SCISA schools in the Charleston area. Stay in the SCISA division - better for us in the combined 1A/2A division.

coldhardtruth - I think I understand scwame's point and it has been made many times on these boards. "SCISA has less competition than 1A" (sometimes the comparision is made to 2A, but none of the SCISA schools would be 2A).

But I don't think this conclusion is accurate. It is a fair point that I only presented the top teams in each division - so here is a more comprehensive look.

There are 12 SCISA AAA schools - 7 of them are listed above. There are 10 1A schools, only 3 are listed (including St. Joe - formerly SCISA). If you look at the remaining schools, SCISA schools are 12, 13, 14, and 19 on the list. 1A schools are 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21. (I know - too much information and free time on my hands!)

I think the best conclusion is that both 1A and SCISA provide good competition for smaller schools (less than 300 students) and that the top schools in each league have shown that they are willing to play (and win in many cases) against top schools in any division (ex. Christ Church, Cardinal Newman, and Pinewood have all beaten top AA, AAA, and AAAA schools this year).

There is no question that schools at the bottom end of both leagues are not as competitive as the top schools, but this is the case in most divisions. It may be more pronounced in 1A and SCISA - but you see it in every group. A quick look at league scores for the top schools in AA, AAA, AAAA will confirm.

scwame - I should have checked to see if you responded to my post before I posted another lengthy note! As regards to the Massey ratings - there always seems to be issues with head to head results. Thats what you get when you use stats. I am a big fan of deciding everything on the field. I would love to see someone do a "tournement of champions" where the top schools in each division could play. It would likely have to occur the following spring, but would be fun to watch!

.Mine played AA last year and with the exception of a couple of teams..The division left something to be desired..AAAA this year and the games have been one or two goals one way or the other..More level competition between the teams..Makes the games more enjoyable to watch..

Score as many as you can, the game is about scoring goals. The coach didn't do anything wrong. Please don't mention sportsmanship. Pinewood was the better team and you would hope the Northwoods just take it in stride and continue to work on getting better.
When teams are up and try to control the score the opposing teams get mad and try to hurt players. Why play numbers down, when you have girls that don't have a lot of playing time on a regular basis. How could you tell a player that only plays when their team is winning not to score when they have the opportunity?
Pinewood played a lot of good teams; they have lost some and won some. I don�t see any post about Wando beating teams 10-0 etc. Let�s get over teams scoring the chances that they create. This is not baseball or whatever sport that have the mercy rule, this is soccer. If you don't like it play another sport..

Regarding the original post of 22-1 where I think all this started. Pinewood has a very strong roster by most of our current A/AA/AAA high school standards (as well as a strong coach). At least three of the players I know are/were members of the '93 SC ODP team with my daughter including two that were selected to the '93 Region III ODP Pool last summer in Alabama. Not included in those three is the forward invited to the National ID2 camp. And that's just the four I know. There's no doubt they have a good team.

What "lit the fire" here was the 22-1 pounding they put on Northwood after 17-0 earlier. Hey, the winning goal was the second goal. Adding another 20 was a little over the top. I think the 7-0 result against OPrep after proving Pinewood could put 17 goals up against them earlier displayed a commendable change in sporting attitude and respect for the weaker team.

7-0 rather than 17-0 or 17-1 or 22-1? Congratulations on the win. 7-0? In fairness to Pinewood, BE has put 12 or more goals on opponents 5 times this year already, Christ Church, St. Joseph's have both put more than 7 on opponents this year, as have most teams in the "upper 3rd" of their conferences. 7-0, I can live with. I've seen my daughter's team on the both ends of a score like that this year. And, although they, OPrep, may not like the 7-0 result (hope not), at least it's not the embarassment of a 22 goal onslaught that could have the players questioning whether or not they should even participate. To those at Pinewood whose website includes lots of references to developing character, sometimes it may be the goals that are not scored that say more about the character of players and a team than the goals that are scored. Something one poster here, unless posting in jest (can't tell), obviously hasn't figured out... kind of a "pig at a trough" mentality.

Congratulations in more way than one on the 7-0 score.

SO, how 'bout those BE scores? What's up there?

And, of course, if my daughter's club team draws Team Boca or Ponte Vedra at regionals this summer and can put 22 on either... well that's different and you can call me a "pig at the trough".