Whether CESA is turning out a superior product to that produced by GFC and St. Giles separately will only, I think, be determined this summer at Regionals. In the meantime I congratulate them on a clean sweep last weekend. 8 out of 8 is, well, 8 out of 8. Lots of red from where I was standing...

lpaf

Euro Fan: I'm sure you know this, but just to be clear -- with the merger (I think it was last spring) of Lexington's non-recreational soccer clubs there are now three Lexington soccer clubs: LCGSA (girls-only recreation), LRSC (girls and boys recreation) and LCSC (boys and girls competitive).

All three clubs should be commended on getting together to host the SCYSA recreational, classic, and challenge tournaments. I know it meant a lot to many businesses in the area from the comments I got.

Success is usually measured by meeting whatever mission statement you have set for yourself.

So, Lexington's mission is to have great facilities while CSC's is populating the high schools with coaches?

Dex,
I wish Lex. mission was to strive for above average soccer to be played on those facilities. I dont know how that CSC mission comment has any validity to the discussion, but it is definitely not correct. CSC mission is to win state and regional championships and not populate high schools with coaches. You must have had some of Shearer's brown ale egg nog! The CSC coaches come from the Irmo/Chapin/Dutch Fork areas because thats sorta where they live and breathe. But the coaches defintely don't pick all their own players-for instance the U17 premier boys team this past year was composed of players from the following schools - Chapin (1), Irmo(4), Dutch Fork(1), Mid-Carolina(1), Brookland-Cayce(2), AC Flora(2),South Aiken (1), Wilson Hall(1), Dreher(2). Last season they had a player from Myrtle Beach.

Why is everyone attempting to over-analyze the merger and results of CESA? Undoubtedly a rhetorical quesiton, but the point is, whether the purpose of this type of analysis were to evaluate one's own personal situation or perhaps if a respective club were trying to determine where they stand, don't you think there is certainly a more appropriate place for this to be discussed and a better "cast" with which it is being discussed? Right. Therefore, in my mind, most of the posters who are "thinking out loud" regarding this topic seem to be either trying to minimize the successes achieved by CESA, rationlize the decisions made by CESA, disregard the idea of playing for a club such as CESA, justify the purpose/mission of other clubs or to design a master plan for all other clubs to follow.

Although I am not affiliated with CESA in any way, if I were to pursue a relationship with them for whatever reason, the decision to do so (or not to do so)wouldn't be hashed out on this message board. Furthermore, I really don't think Eddie (well, maybe Eddie), Tripp, Rick, Clark, etc. are taking notes from this thread either.

One last point, I think one of the posters made light of the feat achieved by CESA this fall referencing the results from St. Giles and GFC from last year. I would caution anyone who believes that previous successes equate to future successes. As a coach, it always bothers me for parents (who make up the majority of the posters on this board)to try and align their coaching ability and knowledge of the game to that of a coach. A majority of the coaches at CESA are professional trainers/coaches and are clearly above any tactical or technical concept that most parents could even conceive, much less teach.

2004,
I am not above having the brown ale, but I happen to be fairly lucid right now. I was being facetious. I agree with you- I was referencing Euro fan. Sorry for the confusion.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Dex come on by for another brownee eggnog????

"I Wish" there it is.

Well.......coach,
I don't think there is an over-analysis of the CESA merger. It is just fun to talk about and what the possibilities may be in the midlands. This is called a soccer forum for the purpose to share, discuss, rant, listen, observe thoughts and ideas about high school and club soccer. Nothing much is ever accomplished here except the sharing of ideas and some fun at times. If the DOCs dont read this dribble then its OK. They won't consider a merger until CESA has swept all state championships again for the 9th or 10th year in a
row.

Ok Dex,
I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer! I miscombopulated your comments. Sorry.

[Preface: “coach”, please understand that everything posted here is meant to be respectful and intended to solicit more precise information concerning not just what you find erroneous and/or distasteful, but what you proffer should be done instead.]

>> [coach] Why is everyone attempting to over-analyze the merger and results of CESA? Undoubtedly a rhetorical quesiton, but the point is, whether the purpose of this type of analysis were to evaluate one's own personal situation or perhaps if a respective club were trying to determine where they stand, don't you think there is certainly a more appropriate place for this to be discussed and a better "cast" with which it is being discussed? Right.<<

No, I can’t think of a more appropriate place, at least not at a first-level of analysis. However, obviously you do think that there are more appropriate places. Could you precisely outline just what those places and methods are? Many of the people on this thread are discussing inter-club issues and issues that they see as relevant to meeting the needs and desires expressed by their children; just what environment do you see as superior for that discussion?

>> Therefore, in my mind, most of the posters who are "thinking out loud" regarding this topic seem to be either trying to minimize the successes achieved by CESA, rationlize the decisions made by CESA, disregard the idea of playing for a club such as CESA, justify the purpose/mission of other clubs or to design a master plan for all other clubs to follow.<<

I probably agree with you here; I find some of the messages to be outlandish. However, I learn from many of them. This no doubt implies that I am ignorant, to which I would not argue.

It’s clear you find the topics rather distasteful [which of course begs the question as to why you’re wasting your time reading them; but that is clearly rhetorical] and do not believe that a great deal of thought goes into most postings. I understand your message.

I’ll be clear regarding why I post to this message board, and why I find doing so to have continuing value. Slightly less than two years ago I began trying to understand the soccer environment in the midstate. I found that I could meet and talk to parents, coaches, board members, and the like all day long and not ever get enough information to make viable decisions concerning what my child was asking. Each one had their agenda [as they no doubt should] – and there wasn’t enough time in the day to physically meet with each so that I could weigh those agendas against each other.

By spending a few weeks on this message board asking questions and posing opinions that others could refute, I was able to greatly accelerate my learning of what was really going on in terms of soccer in the state. Was there glib misinformation given? Of course, but each and every time someone tried to sell a bill of goods someone else refuted it – and it’s pretty clear when reading the posts who has a well-considered, thoughtful opinion and who is out there pursuing grudges and the like. This, and a truly wonderful coach who stood up against personal and club interests and who guided my child and her parents, were the key factors enabling us to help me help her make a decision.

Roughly a year ago my child made a decision to switch soccer clubs [it was the first and so far only time]. So now that this decision has been made to I continue to participate on this board? There are two reasons. First, I still learn reading this message board. That may mark me as completely ignorant and beneath your level of understanding; however, I at least have a feeble ambition to learn more. Secondly, I still find the obfuscation with respect to soccer clubs to be amazing and would like to ease any other parent’s way through this if possible.

>>Although I am not affiliated with CESA in any way, if I were to pursue a relationship with them for whatever reason, the decision to do so (or not to do so)wouldn't be hashed out on this message board.<<

Far be it from me to critique your analytical method, but it might be interesting to those of us less knowledgeable to understand what would be your precise method for making decisions in this situation.

>>Furthermore, I really don't think Eddie (well, maybe Eddie), Tripp, Rick, Clark, etc. are taking notes from this thread either.<<

I can tell you that when I began pursuing this that I was amazed at the readership and the level of attention to these discussions. I receive several e-mail’s and telephone calls each week concerning this stuff – and it’s difficult to watch my daughter play soccer with all of the conversations on sidelines with people who want to talk about it. And I can promise you it’s not just parents; but other volunteers, coaches, and at times even players.

>>One last point, I think one of the posters made light of the feat achieved by CESA this fall referencing the results from St. Giles and GFC from last year. I would caution anyone who believes that previous successes equate to future successes. As a coach, it always bothers me for parents (who make up the majority of the posters on this board)to try and align their coaching ability and knowledge of the game to that of a coach.<<

I must be confused. I went back and read the messages posted to date on this and related threads, and I haven’t seen anything posted in which parents are trying to state technical or tactical advice to coaches [or players] regarding soccer. In fact, I’ve found this and surrounding threads refreshingly clear of the backbiting and name calling with regard to on-the-field strategy and tactics that are unfortunately still too much a part of debate concerning athletics.

What I do see is a debate concerning, for want of a better word, club strategy and the best thing to do in terms of club strategy for soccer players in the midstate area. Certainly it’s arguable whether a merger of two or more clubs would provide better services or whether everyone would be better off going to club X or whether everything is fine and dandy the way it is now.

>>A majority of the coaches at CESA are professional trainers/coaches and are clearly above any tactical or technical concept that most parents could even conceive, much less teach.<<

I agree with your assessment that professional coaches are by their nature professional, and thus are expected to have more knowledge concerning soccer than parents. I probably disagree that most parents lack the ability to “conceive” tactical or technical concepts in soccer; but I do believe that almost all soccer coaches know much more about soccer than almost all soccer parents.

However, I think if you take a look back at the basis of discussion, you’ll find that a debate regarding soccer tactics and techniques is not the intent. Instead, you have a group comprised mostly of parents trying to understand how thirteen and a half soccer clubs can all say that they’re the best soccer club in South Carolina, and all say that they provide the best service regardless of the player, can all be right. This isn’t meant to disrespect these clubs or the people in these clubs; simply to try to articulate the challenge that many parents face in finding a club that meets the unique needs of their child and their family.

LPAF said something in an earlier message about a “superior product”. I don’t think that way. I don’t think of clubs as producing product. I think of clubs as providing services. Now, does this mean winning isn’t important? No, because particularly at higher levels of soccer the more you win the more services you can provide. But the focus has to be providing services to individual players first, and everything else second.

There is an honest desire by some players and parents in the midlands for there to be one or more clubs that provide higher level services to players [e.g., regional and national competition]. This doesn’t mean that the parents are stupid or don’t understand soccer; it simply means that there are people who don’t want to travel an hour and a half for soccer and want it provided closer to home. Are they the minority? No doubt. What should they do? At some point agitation for change against entities that aren’t changing [or aren’t changing fast enough] has to be met with acceptance – either play where you are or go to where the services are you desire. I think that time is now; but that’s just my ignorant, non-soccer-coaching opinion.

Mark Campbell, the intent of my post was to try and defend the sometimes complicated, advanced decision-making that, in my mind, club personnel are qualified to deal with. I used CESA as the example, because it seems that they are the most popular club right now to analyze/discuss. While it may be fun for posters to discuss this, at times the intentions and comments have strayed towards a more critical tongue. I like to read the message board really for two reasons. First, I want to try and monitor the threads to make sure that my players are not offending any other player/program. Secondly, the board can be informative. At times, I do read these threads and find some very interesting discussions.

I also tried to state my opinion, which I thought was fair game, that if I were to make a decision, it would be done outside of a forum. The only people necessary for that type of decision are the ones who sincerely care for that player. As far as obtaining important info. from other people on the board, that is obviously a benefit from the board, but was different (hopefully) from my point. Furthermore, the "places" were reference to the club personnel discussing their situations in the company of their board/coaching staff and not a public forum, where best interests vary.

Coach: I understand; thank you -- a very different perspetive from the one I was taking and obviously very valid -- I apologize for the misunderstanding -- thank you for posting these.

There's probably not a soccer dad out there who feels more strongly than I do that the individual player's growth/development is and should be the ultimate goal of every club regardless of its size or level. Many aspects of this growth are measurable (ask Anson Dorance), but many are not: strength of character, perseverance, self reliance, self confidence... To the extent that a club trains an individual in the art of soccer the clubs are part of a service industry -- a lot like a college or university. The inclusion of the work "academy" in CESA's name manifests their recognition of this.

But in addiition to training individuals, clubs also form teams, and teams, to me, seem to me to be a product at least as much as they are the recipient of services. They consist of carefully chosen parts (players) with certain abilities that give them a particular style. Like a car or a wheelbarrow you can measure things about them -- goals scored, goals given up, percent of passes on target, wins, losses. Like many products teams have parts that can be interchanged, and they have an expected lifespan.

The second letter in CESA's name suggests that the club has an emphasis on upper level soccer, and as an elite organization it is not unreasonable to look at the performance of its premiere teams as a surrogate marker of the quality and efficacy of its methods. 8 of 8 victories at State Cup is very impressive. If one or more of these teams can win the southeastern region this summer then the model set by the GFC-St.Giles merger will have proven itself on a regional basis.

lpaf

Lap, I agree with you for the most part. But, in my opinion, the humanity aspect of the parts (players) is what separates the players from parts and therefore service as opposed to product. I also agree that CESA is in a different league in that their mission is to provide a comprehensive program, while focusing on effectively meeting the needs and desires of all levels of player development. Sure, there will be some hiccups along the way. But, comparatively speaking, they offer the best opportunities (my opinion - for what it is worth). What I do disagree about though is that many people are waiting until regionals to make a final analysis/assessment regarding their success. I believe that if you do that, then, again, you create a very narrow-minded view of measuring success. The nature of athletics/competition ultimately leads to only one "winner." While there may only be 1 champion with 18 players on the roster, there are far more players than that who receive the benefits of a club such as CESA. As you stated above, there are many intangibles that are difficult to measure with regards to a player. There are also many successes that are not exposed on the teams who may not win the championship. Many, many players will receive scholarships, opportunities to play college soccer, invites to national team training camps, etc. as well as the other important things such as qualities of being successful citizens.

When will the CESA Lovefest end??

Coach --

I am not sure that you and I have anything to disagree about here. I don't know anything about the rec organization of CESA but can only presume that care is given to develop the younger or average players. The thrust of this thread has been what the midlands might do to stay competitive with CESA and it was prompted by last week's strong showing of the CESA teams at state cup. My earlier brief post about regionals is just a way of saying that if CESA has truly moved up a level in the play of its most elite teams (as suggested by an 8 for 8 state cup run) we should see a reflection of this in how well they play against the major metropolitan clubs of Atlanta and Dallas. I would never narrowly judge CESA's overall success as a megaclub based on their regional success anymore than I would be critical of a MPSC, CUSC or CSC's overall program based on their failure to win a single match this year at state cup. There is an element of self-fulfilling prophesy at work here but that's another story.

In the end, the character building experience of soccer is what I think matters most. Many, many widely different club structures provide this.

Good talking to you, Coach. Have a great weekend.

lpaf

OK, lpaf has spoken and blessed this thread with his wisdom, and the Lovefest can now officially end. Let us get back to the original topic of this thread - merger in the midlands.

i kinda skipped alot of this and then posted in the other topic. But what I said was that my cousin played in North Carolina for a local team for state play then merged with some other teams for nationals. Would it be possible for these clubs to merge simply their best players rather than joining all together? If so would they even consider playing with each other?

striker - surely CSC is at least talking to some of the other clubs after what happened at the Challenge Cup?
Even if they can't say so publicly.
The **** merger annoucement did'nt happen until they had been talking privately for a while.

I personally think it's too late for the Coumbia area to play catch up with the older age groups. The word is out that CESA is the place to be. However, it would be wise for the younger age groups to start consolidating and build something that can compete and win in a few years.

To all the Mid-State & Coatal Regions.I have been reading through all the messages on this topic and I can understand that you are frustrated.I think also,for Districts to be more competetive a merger must happen within Clubs around.It will be sooner then later in my Opinion.For what its worth,CESA has 2000+ players who are fielding 3 sometimes 4 teams in each age Bracket to compete in Classic/Challenge League play.Look at the Final Results of State Cup Play.There was not 1 blow out.2 games went into O.T I think that's Brilliant! CESA had at least 80+ players trying out for every age group.In the younger ages they had 100+ easily at try-outs so definatly numbers count.Last Year ST Giles/GFC won 8/9 Champs in u15-u18.This year,Congrats to them,they won all 8,by combining those teams together.Should they have won? SURE!! It doesn't matter if CESA was formed in 6 months or 6 weeks..with the quality of players the Coaches had to work with,it just a matter of time for them to get them together as a team and play a system the players can all relate too.So,this I can't believe we won 8 State Titles so soon B.S. is just that..B.S
Hopefully,Coaches are talking about merging to be more competitive in the future for all S.C Soccer.

>> [man city fc supporter] Last Year ST Giles/GFC won 8/9 Champs in u15-u18<<

[2003, U15-U18] SGU or GFC teams were state champions 5 times [of 8 possible] or 62.5% of the time. SGU or GFC were finalists in 9 [of 16 possible] or 56% of the time.

A modest theory. Perhaps reasons for merging, or not merging, any club or clubs have less to do with who won what when, and more to do with the services that these clubs provide all of its members [example only: how many training sessions have been and are being offered by clubs in the Columbia area since the state challenge cup -- and how many are being offered by clubs in other SC areas?]

THATS IT!!!!!!!!!
I can't take any more of this Lovefest with CESA!!!
I will now unleash the Red Neck League on CESA and destroy it!!!!!!
NO MORE CESA!!

2004striker: I actually was trying hard ***NOT*** to say nice things about **** but instead do as you requested and bring the discussion back to the thread topic. The first post was simply a factual response to an earlier post; the second post is a theory that may or may not be valid.

A modest question: if Columbia-area parents of highly ambitious players who want to play on more competitive teams but don't want the player to commute more than a few miles, then why don't those parents get together and ask an existing club to provide the services they want? And precisely what are those services that they do want?

Solution to all this "talk." Ya'll come on down to MPSC. This is a numbers thing. You have to have the talent available to put together a kick-butt team(s) that can compete with the best in the nation. We have been to Regionals and I can tell you, we need more talent than is available in just the Lowcountry, at least at the 1989 level. Sure, a team may be pretty good in the state, such as ****89 Premier but how do they compete in the Premier league. Not too good. This is not meant to talk poorly of them but it is the truth. If you really want to compete on the national level - it will take combining ALL clubs in SC or putting together the best on one team.
I have seen all the talent from each of the three areas of SC in the Challenge league and on ****89. No one team or area in SC can compete at the national level. If anyone thinks they can, you are only fooling yourself.
If the goal is to compete at that level, it is going to take more than combining Chas area or COLA area clubs. Just the truth!

Soccerdog6: Have you folks decided whether you're going to compete in Premier League next season -- or will you compete in the Challenge League and focus on tournaments again?

soccerdog6 - are you talking about the cesa 89 premier girls? they improved in the premier league this year as compared to last year. if you look at their games, they were very competitive with some teams ( from georgia/ nc ), going 0-0 or losing by 1 goal. i think you have to remind yourself that the cesa team is a new team, and the teams they played against have been together longer.... do you expect rome to be built in a day?

soccerdog6- First of all, SC has competed at the regional/national level with a few teams in the past. 4 or 5 yrs ago the GFC Black girls won regionals and advanced to nationals. I think they didn't win a game at nationals but were competitive (one goal loss) in each game. I think most of the girls on that team were from the upstate. A GFC boys team won Sun bowl at least once (maybe twice) which is a great accomplishment. This team had primarily upstate players, but had several from midstate as well. I am much more familiar with the Aiken Fire team 3-4 yrs ago that was national runner-up (1-0 loss in champ game) after winning regionals. That same team won Va Beach, runner-up at CASL shootout, won group at Sunbowl ,lost qtrs to Albertson, NY (who won region 1 at U16 and U17, so a pretty good team) The U15 national runner-up team was comprised of kids from Aiken and Augusta GA (15 miles away), with one kid from Irmo. The following year they were regional runner-up (losing 1-0 in finals) after finishing third in R3Pl. The U16 team had kids from Atlanta (1), Augusta(6) and one from Columbia and the rest Aiken. At U17, the team finished 2nd in R3PL at 7-1-1 with kids from Atlanta (2), Athens (1), Augusta (4), Lexington (1), Charleston (1) and the rest Aiken. At U18 this year the team struggled for players with 2 off to college, 3 opting not to play due to HS football, 2 ACL tears, 2 moving to other teams. At times they had only 10 players at R3Pl games, struggled all season and lost to CSC 2-0 in semis at state cup. Only 3 boys from the U15 national runner-up team played in that last game. Having that as a background the team trained TOGETHER two nights a week at U15. At u16 and U17 training was twice a week, but one was on Friday night to accomodate the "out of town" kids. The other midweek practice had only the local kids (13-15 players depending on the year). Not as easy to train with only one session per week. At U18 they trained twice a week, but with injuries, HS football players (2) and out of towners, 9 players at practice was the high for the year. Having a state-wide team may sound great, but it is a real committment and challenge for the players, parents and coach to make it successful. If the CESA teams (or any team) get too high of a % of kids from outside the area, quality team practice may be jeopardized and successful results at the regional/national level harder to find.

I couldn't agree more!! I just put forth the only viable plan to CONSISTENTLY compete at the regional and national level. Of course it will not happen. Even teams in the past that have drawn from other parts of the state (NECSA, SURF) could not really compete at that level.
As previously stated, it is a matter of numbers. When Sterling Elite and Chicago FC have literally hundreds of girls trying out for a team, and willing to pay in the neighborhood of $10,000 per year for club and coaching fees, little SC cannot compete with the talent. Of course the occasional team will come along and win at regionals but not consistently. The old CGSA Fusion competed very well at regionals in the past but we seem to be looking for a club to consistently compete.
MPSC has at least three girls coming from Hilton Head to practice and play. This is over two hours each way. TOUGH!! My son drove 1-1/2 hours to practice two to three times per week. Thank God he is now in college!
The point I am trying to make is SC does not have the numbers, even with regional clubs, to compete with the big dogs. I have been honored to watch my daughter compete with these folks at WAGS and Southern Regionals. Please believe me, we have a long row to hoe. It can be done but how many girls are committed to practicing FIVE nights a week and traveling every weekend to either play games or attend tournaments.
It may be best for our clubs and teams to simply play within themselves with available talent.

SM1121 - don't take it personally! There is no reason to defend your beliefs, I give you guys all the credit in the world.

Mark - we have not had a formal meeting to discuss it but I believe we will be playing Premier. Hopefully we will be able to bring in a couple of players to help us out.
Ya'll have a great holiday. I'm off for 12 days!

[Preface: Soccerdog6, hope you have a great holiday. Several points you raised deserve a general response. 2004striker: You don't want to read this; I'm going to be complimentary to CESA; sorry.]

>> [Soccerdog6] It can be done but how many girls are committed to practicing FIVE nights a week and traveling every weekend to either play games or attend tournaments.<<

In SC, from what I've seen, probably no more than 20-25 per age group -- and that may be high. A relatively small number. That number seems concentrated in the upstate where more kids practice more time and more parents support more travel/tournaments/etc. than anywhere else in SC.

>>It may be best for our clubs and teams to simply play within themselves with available talent.<<

This is an important point. For most kids playing soccer, the current local clubs are fine. The problem is a relatively small number of parents trying to get their soccer-serious [some say soccer-obsessed] kids the training, with other serious kids [and parents willing to support them], that they want.

1-2 years ago I cared a lot if midlands soccer clubs merged. I don't any longer. A merger isn't going to help the highly ambitious kids ages 14+; many of the best in the midlands area are commuting to Greenville [and Charlotte, and I'm sure other places]. I don't see a merger reversing this; I see it accelerating. And that's probably good; the truth is that SC can probably only support a single group of really serious kids at a given age group if there are ambitions of regional or national competitiveness.

A year ago I cared a lot of lowcountry soccer clubs merged. I don't any longer. The CUSC Fusion are great; but beyond that the landscape seems almost as fractured as Columbia with questionable commitment [I ***do not*** know this first hand -- MPSC has done some wonderful things in their younger age groups -- I'm simply noting what parents have said on this board]. Soccerdog6: you may not have been trying to insult the CESA 89 Premier team by citing their deficiencies in premier league play, but as soccermom1121 noted, there are some seriously mitigating circumstances involving the fact that they've existed for a single season [note: my daughter doesn't play on this team, so this isn't personal]. But MPSC in this age group didn't even try -- as you noted this summer, it was too expensive and would impact social lives too much. No problem at all with that -- but in response to "...ya'll come down to MPSC..." why in the world would a serious player travel 2-3 times a week 90 miles to join a group you described in that manner?

In the last week and a half since the state challenge tournament, my daughter's biggest issue has been which of the conflicting three training sessions per night she'll attend for various teams/groups of players [note: this isn't a joke -- she's mad that there isn't more coordination among the different teams so she can attend more than one practice -- a problem that I hope will be addressed in coming seasons]. There are a lot of very serious folks at CESA.

MC - I described my daughter's team in that manner, as I stated then, that we as a team believed them to be too young to be playing Premier. That is the reason we "didn't even try." They were simply not realistically ready for it. I also stated that there is a lot more to life than soccer at that age. Thus, we chose the tournament route.
If you think my statement on CESA 89P could have even been close to "insulting" then you are reading something that I don't. Simple as that.
I am not about to get into an e-mail argument over this subject. If you wish to play "political analyst" and read more into a comment than was acually there or put a spin on it, that is your right. Really, it does not matter.
I am personally done with this subject as I have made my point. I think it is great that there are others out there that disagree with it. Hopefully, a few agree.

ARRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

The topic is about merger in Cola. area, which turns into a CESA Lovefest, and now we have dueling barbs hurled by CESA and MPSC proponents against each other????

Mark,
The point of available training sessions right now is a bit misleading isn't it?
Only reason to train right now is for those state champ teams who might need to get to keep their touch for Regonals.
MPSC teams playing in Christmas tournaments are stll practicing.

Kids that are best at rec should have good rec teams to play on. Kids that are challenge classic should have good challenge coaches and good challenge leagues to compete in. Extraordinary kids that want the most out of what they can bring out in themselves need extraordinary clubs, coaches and training schedules. Great redneck players need Camels rolled up in the sleeve of their underarmour and two fisted tobacco chewing/cussing country coaches to inspire them to their redneck best. A perfect club structure will bring all of these things to all of these kids and more.

lpaf

Shaker wisdom. " 'Tis a gift to be simple, 'tis a gift to be free. 'Tis a gift to come down where you ought to be. "

Just as a little heads up, I live in the north now, specifically Wisconsin, and I have actually been a ref for some Chicago FC teams, and I was not overly impressed. They were good, but did not live up to what I thought they were going to be by the way that everyone talks them up. I wouldn't say that they are that much better than most of the premier SC teams, if they are even better at all. Their coaches are generally rude, and don't have a lot of respect for the refs or other coaches. I had a coach argue with me about a call, and when I told him the discussion was finished, tell me that I didn't know who he was, and how influentual he could be. How much more arrogant can you be? I would much rather ref or play against any team in SC than those teams.

FEAR - What drives some people and deprives other people..... You can say that of people reading threads (never posting just reading due to the unleashing that can take place) and of parents chasing the merger of tomorrow (don't wont to be left behind). This is my first "POST"! I have been reading for about two(2) years! This is meant for discussion and not attacks! It will be direct and only my opinion - not gospel!!! The last few weeks has encouraged me to voice a few thoughts today! I have been trying to get a sense of this "grass is greener on the other side" thing. The direction the last few post(s) are going has lead me to the following: Many people in CESA and many outside of CESA are "OD'ing" on pure CESA propaganda! Propaganda is meant to methodically promote a cause (CESA) and/or disrupt/injury another (other SCYSA Clubs). 1) CESA is understaffed and over worked. Additional players were brought in from out of area to support a few teams. Other than that - Challenge teams were merged Classic teams removed or kept together and recreation teams forced to play in house. Trainers over teamed and having to pick and being told which team to train. 2) Trainers, NOT coaches, - have too many teams and can not focus on growing/training all of their assigned children! Many can not complete pre-season evaluations will not do post-season evaluations for many players. The "committed to no more than three(3) teams and will equally train" idea did not work as planned. A great deal of scrimmaging between teams and some teams not even having a trainer to show up during the week. 3) CESA pulling ALL U14 and below recreational players out of Greenville County Recreation League(GCRD) and forcing them to play in-house. The in-house league has a four(4) goal scoring rule for all teams. So a team can not beat another by more than four goals. CESA ended up, reluctantly, placing the U16 and U18 teams in GCRD after they did not have enough in their in-house league. How many recreation titles did CESA take home? How many articles and accolades were written and posted about the recreation side? 4) Trainers training higher level teams and volunteer coaches helping lower level teams. 5) CESA proposing to give their MeSA Soccer Complex to GCRD for them to take over (either in a lease or sale w/Greenville residents flipping the bill by using tax payer money to finance - (This deal is still in the works) - also looking at using Accommodation Tax for purchase). This is all being done in late political arm twisting before a County Council member lost her seat. 6)CESA focus on "elite" players pooled together to win a trophy and enhance a resume'. 7) Recruiting out of area players i.e. all over SC,NC,GA & TN just to chase the elusive win. Some just showing up for games. Where is the"I" in Team? 8) Focus on Regional and National play that is pushed by staffed employees. 9) Trainers in a resume' feeding frenzy of who gets to train what team and who gets to travel with what team. 10) CESA focus on elite players. 11)Discarding potential good players due to the commitment of time to develop them into future players (this is done by cutting or not providing a team and looking outside of local area for players).

I could go on and on and so could many others. CESA is a business not a youth soccer club. People need to stop trying to cloak them in youth development, but in elite player development! CESA is not about merging youth soccer players! CESA is about merging the "ELITE" player and parent w/desire and wallet to play at the National level. Those players and parents need a place. Many talk of the merger as if it is best for ALL players. Many talk of how youth players love to look up to players in their club who are treated better with trainers, better quality uniforms, warm ups, bags, travel, money, attention, publicity and vaunt. CESA is a merger of people to financially support and fund the showcasing of few! The roster of three to five players will not work. Mega clubs need other youth players/parents to buy into the team idea in order to pool the money to finance the few. I do not just mean the player either - I am talking of the trainer ego. Resume building! Just review the web site and article published! Just review the past post that got this thread started. It is about "PLAYER" & "TRAINER" not team and community development, team/club loyalty, friendships, work ethic, teamwork and sticking with a team when times are tough or players are injured. It's about what team can I try out for next season and wonder who the trainer will be. It's about the quick fix to my childs potential soccer career. It is NBA, NFL MLS! Call it what it is! A business! But do not, call it a youth soccer club. Even CESA, Carolina Elite Soccer Academy, does not profess that concept! Their name dictates their focus and drive for elite development!

Regional and National soccer exposure is a grand goal to have. CESA has this goal! CESA is Elite! It is in their name! They should not be ashamed of their goal or drive for the elite! They should be ashamed of letting people think they are very interested in the development and training of all youth soccer players at every level of play. But - I do not think they have ever said they want to be all to all. I think it has been other parents drunk off the water believing those tales. South Carolina will only obtain Nat'l & Regional recognition through the merging of "ONE STATE CLUB"! Yes! I said it! This club will be the merger of elite players training together off to themselves with the elite trainers! Keep in mind their world is different! Both player,trainer and parent thinks differently! They need their own facilities away from the common soccer player! At that time, those players will compete against the other elite players(the pecking order will still exist)! In time past - SCYSA and parents called this ODP! Parents, Players & trainers are now calling this CESA! CESA can have satellite training facilities in Columbia & on the Coast! The merger will provide the facilities to train these players and boundaries and colors are no longer a factor! The members have been programmed and adapted to Team A and Team B. Problem: It takes money, power, control and some stupidity on members to buy into this takeover.

One might ask - how do we do this! Do tell! The money comes from the dumb down recreation league, player and parent who's programs are nothing. These programs must fall in order for the club to go in house. The club must go in house to make more money. Yes! It is sold off the concept of better training and game focus. We can then control the entire player pool. We all remember how we got lured to the trough of soccer propaganda! Has it been that long for us! I remember as I played and drank from it. I go back to mid 1970 when I started! It was still pure! The last 10 years has brought the big money into the program! The machine is at work and the parent does the following: My son or daughter is 11 or 12 and "only" has a few more years to play! If I do not get them (Individual) onto that team(full of individuals) to be showcased I am doomed. The level of play is so low and bad. I need to step up and reach deeper in my pocket to provide for them. The seed has been planted that the level of play is bad and your child is wasting their time. Keep in mind the adults are typically saying this not the child(keep in mind a few children might see & say the above). Then the coveted day arrives when you look up from your chair on the sideline and the trainer and crystal ball come walking in your direction. You perk up and start to look to your side. Is it me they are walking toward? Yes! It appears so. You tell your self "I have been waiting on this day"! I - I mean we are in the inner circle! You can not wait to tell your child and coworkers what has happened! You now get to practice over there - over with the elite! The roster must grow to collect great fees! After a while, the parent and player realize they are still not in the inner circle(there are higher levels of play) - they must work harder and pay more to provide. They just are not satisfied - they are not "IN". Then the next call comes and the invitation extended, but it does have a cost! Time, money, commitment, travel, leaving the family & siblings, stay away from home, leaving other sports behind, and school work and friends will find a place! Another roster is filled in the elite circle of contestants. The people below have been called up and the positions are filled. The roster is smaller this time.. You are told the level of play is so high many just do not make it! Your proud, but later find you still are not "IN".......... By now many of you are asking where the heck is the circle and who are these people and players. Some used to call it tournament/travel teams! Some used to call it ODP! Some used to call it Classic Soccer! Some call it Challenge Soccer! Some call it Premier League! OH! Is it Super Y? It must be the National or Regional team! Is it CESA?

As long as parents are willing to finance a dream and the trainer/club can sleep at night, the elite circle will be the Golden Carrot of Soccer Life! It is OK to have a goal for your child. It is better to support your child(s) goal(s). Do not force mergers down the throat of 90% to 95% of the soccer population. That majority enjoys South Carolina soccer with the occasional travel tournament in or out of state. Leave the Club concept alone. The pride of a local club with local players winning and competing against the giants is great. Let the majority play competitive soccer and compete against other clubs. Last time I checked with the children, they still enjoyed club rivalries. They enjoy playing teams with different uniforms! They enjoy playing for their high school! They like knowing who is on their team. These players are growing tired of adults telling them what level of play is bad and a waste of time. They are starting to figure out it is about the pay check or the ego! They are cluing in to the fact it is not about the player. A club can always find a player to replace another player.

CESA is running a business for the elite. Let CESA continue and all will continue to be a feud with the elite! CESA is just a piece of the puzzle. A BIG STATE run merger is the ONLY way many think SC can compete Nationally and Regionally. Tomorrow will bring a new look, a new name, a higher fee, a new trainer and a larger geographic player pool. The days of players guest on out of state teams are coming to a close. Many parents are sacrificing the child to join the out of state team and show up for games. Premier teams have players from all over on the roster and some still have guest positions available to win certain tournaments. Man the water is cloudy!

Sad part of the above: Conforming and giving up to the 5% of TRUE elite player pool is destroying the development and joy youth soccer brings to children. Children have enough labels at school and in life. Do not make them feel inferior to play soccer below the elite level. Has it ever occurred to the elitist that the commoner does not have to look up to them as Gods, but as fools! Just read the condescending elitist talk in the quotes from the paper and on the wed site. Sooner or later these clubs will be held accountable or sued for non performance. Families are sacrificing big money (thousands) and family relationships to get that final call from the University. CESA's two prong approach to state monopoly is working: 1) Take any elite player willing to travel and pay and CESA will eventually win. 2) Need tournament money and one big club to finance the elite player. Remember that the entire SC player pool is smaller than many clubs in other states. The question that should be asked is: Why are elite Premier teams composed of regional players allowed to compete in SCYSA Cups? Do not give me the OH that is the only way to get to Nationals and Regional. Please! If a all South Carolina team composed of players in the clubs area, cannot compete Regionally/Nationally then that club needs to train and develop their respective players better. Not going to the ends of the earth to find a live, willing and paying body to show up to a game. How can people read the CESA accolades and say - Man that Greenville, SC team is playing great soccer. It needs to read WOW! That South Carolina Club has put together a great regional team. No wonder they beat the other small teams. The small teams need to be honored to hold the CESA teams to the close games. Do you realize the amount of money and geographic area some of those teams had to go to to just beat the smaller teams. I would congratulate the small clubs for competing. CESA should have KILLED every team with what they have tried to put together. Why stop with Premier teams. Let clubs recruit players from around the globe in Challenge, Classic and Recreation and take each one to regional play. What a concept! I mean fair for one is fair for all! Right! Let's let Division I schools play Division III schools in the NCAA Championships! I congratulate the Clubs who competed with great pride in the Cup! Keep your head up as you are a winner. No wonder CESA was so complementary of the other Clubs. CESA knew what the other small teams did not. CESA should have been embarrassed by not running away with the score. By first half, CESA should have been playing possession soccer and scoring after 15 to 20 passes. Yes! They complement the others! They quietly thank God they pulled through a few of the games. The other players and parents just do not realize the Goliath they were up against. Hold your head high and parents hug your players neck! Players say thank you to your parents for not giving up on your area team. Tell your club thank you for not giving up and continuing to train players to combat these giants. Hold your head high when you play against players who refuse to commit their talent to your local club instead to journey to a far away land to feast from the table of the elite. Remember that you did not give up on your area. Your competitive heart and desire will keep the blood pumping in your areas local youth soccer player. Good training and a well coached team playing for a cause will eventually beat a group of individuals playing for oneself!!!!!!!!!

I am flinching in anticipation for the blows to come. Do not worry for long - USL Super Y - League is the NEW and growing focus for the elite play. Signing off.

Man!!! What an awesome post. I don't agree with a word of it , but man that was awesome.I felt like I was reading The Communist Manifesto. Power TO The People.

A an U10 boys coach for CESA I wouldn't agree with the being forced to play in-house statement. We had 24 for teams in our age group, mostly from the club with a few from Anderson and Bob Jones. I loved the fact that we knew we were playing every game at MESA. If you truly go back to the 70's, assuming it was in Greenville, you must remember how awful it was to play at Northside one week, Washington Heights the next, somewhere out near Moonville the week after that, and finally up near T.R. I don't miss that at all. Does the Rec. program have flaws? Maybe. Playing in-house it not one of them.

Seethepitch -- AMEN!!! Your words ring true and certainly raise the warning flag in regards to the inherent danger of youth club soccer in SC. I have never read a more accurate depiction of this growing crisis. You are to be commended for coming forth and stating this viewpoint. Hopefully some will see that 95% is greater than 5% and that's who we need to cater to, not the elite. If CESA wants that role, so be it, but it's not for the majority!

Whether you agree with all, some, or none of Seethepitch's post, it was very impressive. This is what this forum is all about.

Seethepitch

While I am not anyway remotely affliated with CESA, I believe you are fairly off base in your assessment. GFC and Giles as separate entities used the same basic formula as CESA uses now. Actually, according to some of the "trainers" I have talked to, their work load has gone down. Sure, the whole training system does require a coach to make difficult decisions when it comes to which team I go with to which games. However, as many of the top coaches in the state will tell you, all of your coaching should be done well before you step on the field on Saturday morning. Its not the ideal situation at all times, but it allows quality trainers such as Hyslop, Pearse, Parkinson, Shelley, etc to train as many teams as possible. Thus, that means more players get coaching from these individuals.

"CESA should have KILLED every team with what they have tried to put together."

How can you possibly say that CESA should have killed every team that they played? The rest of the state is not that bad. Do you think that CESA is the only one recruiting and getting the premier players? Because that is absolutely not the case. CSC gets players from Northeast Columbia, Downtown, Mt. Pleasant, Sumter, Fort Mill, etc. Mt Pleasant and Summerville tend to pull from not only the Charleston area, but also regularly from Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head, Columbia, and other areas in the low country. Now, is their pull as strong as CESA's? absolutely not. However, long before the merger, GFC and St. Giles were pulling players from Columbia, Charleston, Rock Hill, etc. CESA did not magically start getting these great players. They have been there for some time.

" Why are elite Premier teams composed of regional players allowed to compete in SCYSA Cups? Do not give me the OH that is the only way to get to Nationals and Regional. Please! If a all South Carolina team composed of players in the clubs area, cannot compete Regionally/Nationally then that club needs to train and develop their respective players better. Not going to the ends of the earth to find a live, willing and paying body to show up to a game."

First of all, you stated in a previously that South Carolina's population is sometimes smaller than some of the Region III cities we must compete against, i.e. Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Houston, etc. So why can a team go and get the best players possible?
CESA is not the only one's willing to take players from all over. As stated above, the larger clubs in the state tend to draw players from other areas. The Aiken Fire for the last few years have been compromised of numerous players from Georgia, some even from Atlanta. There is a little known club named Northside Soccer Club in the Fort Mill/Rock Hill area, that continually gets players from Charlotte because those players are disgruntled with their local clubs. Do you think this club turns those players down? Absolutely not.

To be honest, you sound like a very disgruntled parent. But you are entitled to your own opinion as I am mine.

I am sure that Pitch's comments will spur many discussions and points of view. However, in the point where Lowerstate talks about coaching before the game, that is simply not reality. The coach on the field does make a difference in most cases. To say that all the coaching is done in practice and the results come in the game does not work with most coaches, at least at this level. Some of the best coaches at CESA are the most vocal ones. Tormey, Hyslop, Minihan, and especially Shelley are very vocal and are not just sitting there during a game. One of the major complaints this year from parents and players is that a coach will have three teams, and is absent from games a good bit. By doing this you are saying that the coaching style is the same throughout the club and that the coaches are all on the same level. Nothing could be further from the truth. CESA, like many clubs has different level of coaches as well as different style of coaches. Take a yelling coach like Osorio or Shelley (both who are very good coaches) off a team for a game, and you can easily get a different game result with a more quieter coach.

Cornerflag

My fault for including the statement that "all" of your coaching should be done before the match. I know for a fact that it does not happen. However, it should have said that most of your coaching should be done before the match. I am certain that you can ask any of those guys at CESA and they will agree with that statement. I agree that it will affect a team to a degree if the coach is not there. There are numerous results from this past season that can attest to that fact. However, can one honestly argue that a team is getting slighted if Osario is not there and Shelley or Hyslop or any of the other numerous trainers are? I dont think so. I think everyone at NECSA would love to have a Tripp Miller on their sidelines, but Tripp is only one person and can only cover so much. I witnessed on numerous occassions that some of the trainers went with the challenge teams and left the premier teams with another trainer. So the argument that CESA cares only for the "elite" player does not hold water with me. As stated previously, the system has its flaws as does any, but obviously it seems to work and more than just the elite player is getting quality training. That was my point.

To be honest, the best system would be to have one coach focus all of his attention to one team. However, last time I checked, Greenville, nor the state for that matter, had 30 or 40 quality coaches in order to achieve this system. You have to work with what is available. The members of CESA should be thrilled to have the number of quality coaches that they possess.

Pitch was trying to say that the training system was a negative for CESA. That just is not true in my opinion. That was the point I was looking to drive home. I just did not state it too well

Cornerflag -- You pointed out that you personally value the "yelling" coaches at CESA.

Some of the best coaches at CESA are the most vocal ones. Tormey, Hyslop, Minihan, and especially Shelley are very vocal and are not just sitting there during a game. ... Take a yelling coach like Osorio or Shelley (both who are very good coaches) off a team for a game, and you can easily get a different game result with a more quieter coach.

I thought the trend in youth soccer was to "be quiet" and let the kids learn from their mistakes, not call play-by-play from the sidelines. I remember reading an article on here last year that said a club/league up North had instituted a "silent day" for their games so no parents or coaches could yell/talk during the game.

What's best -- a yeller or a quiet coach?

LS4A -- However, last time I checked, Greenville, nor the state for that matter, had 30 or 40 quality coaches in order to achieve this system.

Can you list for us the top ten trainers at CESA? How about across the state? Who would you include that could draw the best kids from across the state? Maybe this is where the "ultra-clubs" should focus -- on getting the best coaches together to train kids from all over the state and create a truly elite experience for ALL kids, not just the top 5%. Again, I thought this was the purpose of ODP, but since that is a wayward, money-hoarding organization, we'll leave it to the clubs.

Talon: your last question is probably a topic for discussion at some other time. However, despite what the trend is, there are still some coaches that are very vocal. Maybe the word yelling has negative connotations, but the coaches that I mentioned don't sit completely silent on the sidelines. I have found that at the younger ages, making vocal corrections during a game is not a bad thing, despite what the trend is. As the players get older and more disciplined, you usually see less of it.

Lowerstate: Point understood.

[Preface: My last post on this thread, and, I sincerely hope, my last post on any thread with a title referencing midlands soccer mergers.]

>>[swimmer1] The point of available training sessions right now is a bit misleading isn't it?
Only reason to train right now is for those state champ teams who might need to get to keep their touch for Regonals. MPSC teams playing in Christmas tournaments are stll practicing.<<

I honestly wasn't trying to be misleading, and apologize if I was. Here are some of the reasons players can be training now: [1] holiday team tournaments, [2] spring team seasons [e.g., scrimmaging colleges, tournaments, etc.], [3] ad hoc leagues/tournaments [e.g., indoor leagues, small-sided tournaments, etc.], [4] individual training for high school play, [5] individual training for regional play, [6] team training for regional play, [7] individual for ODP, [8] and so on.

The only point I was trying to make was that the club and parents in that club in which my daughter participates now offers training for multiples of these purposes, so my daughter is happy. I stated it only because the subject raised was commuting to clubs, and I thought it might help if people saw the kinds of services that people who commute to clubs appreciate.

If I were part of a midlands club considering a merger, I would first look at the services I could provide players rather than looking at ways to force players to leave their current team and play on a new one so I could win something.

1) Power should be given to the parents and players; 2) The "rest of the State" did GREAT! My point exactly. Look at how well they did do. Yes! GFC/SGU has pulled players for years. 2004 CESA taunts this once secret and proudly informs the community that other players travel to play with us why not you; 3) SC play should be SC Play! Regional & National play should be just that; 4) Disgruntled "NO" just getting people to discuss the changes. If we continue the SC Cup Play will be made up of only the mega merger teams made up of regional players. If the youth elite needs a way to get to Reg'l. & Nat'l play find another place to compete. Do not change the current system to meet their demands. Develop another divisional group (just like SCYSA did with Challenge Cup - Classic Cup & American Cup call it Premier Cup or they can play in the Super Y); 5)Coaches are coaches and trainers are trainers is the NEW Pitch. Parents are buying into the need for training more than coaching. We will have to wait to see how this player/coach disconnect affects the growth and development of the younger players! The older U15 and above S.C. teams did not develop under this new training model; 6) There are many quality coaches and trainers in South Carolina. PROBLEM - These people MUST fit the Clubs model in order to coach/train. Many very good people are not allowed to carry on because they do not fit (successful team later split and given new trainer and team struggles or coach can only carry a team to a certain age group before he/she identified as not knowing enough about soccer and team taken). Example: A number of years ago clubs turned away from quality coaches training players to a different model of college players training at practice and youth player making decisions in the game. This way trainer can say I train them and they just did not get it in the game - Not my fault - Must be the coach during the game - player just needs to train more! This model also eliminates player/coach role and allows players/parents to be more comfortable moving players around when the club sees a need for a change. Last time I looked soccer was still a TEAM system and TEAM tactic game - not a bunch of trained individuals putting something together in a game; 7) ODP did have the purpose to expose players to the regional & national side. PROBLEM - big money or lack of big money got in the way and ODP quickly has become a negative training option. Plus, a club can go over state boundaries and recruit players for a more successful team. Some Clubs do not support SC ODP! Many think the exposure can be found in other venues with a broader based roster. Once again - One must find the real reason why propaganda(N. 1. information or ideas methodically spread to promote or injure a cause, etc. 2. the deliberate spreading of such information or ideas.) is given - is it money, power, control, resume', win/loss record, ego or is player development? That brings to debate the question of "IS MY CLUB TRAINING THE WHOLE PERSON"? or "SHOULD A CLUB TRAIN THE WHOLE PERSON?" There is sooo much more to talk about!
Very good debate and discussion evolving from the merger topic! Keep it up as more talk needs to be taken back to the proverbial board rooms before more mergers hastily develop!

Seethepitch

a few comments on your last post, mainly item #4

A team can choose to play either Challenge or Classic State Cup at the beginning of the season. Believe me, teams outside of CESA have other goals besides winning a state championship. A state championship is the ultimate goal of every team in the Challenge Cup. However, most teams and clubs know where they fit and have other goals also. Just making the Championship game means tremendous to most clubs as it locks up a Region III Premier spot. Some clubs and teams look to get their teams to the Semis as that would be a huge accomplishment. Just being able to put semi-finalist down on tournament applications can mean alot to some teams and clubs. This allows them to get into tournaments that might be closed to them without being a semi-finalist. So there is no need for another division, because if a team chooses not to take on the "Elite" clubs, then they can play in the Classic Cup. However, there are some players at clubs other than CESA that would consider themselves elite players and want maximum exposure so their teams will choose to play challenge. SCYSA is giving everyone a choice.

You continually bring up Super Y. Do you know anything about Super Y? It is played during the summer. How do you propose the elite teams play in only Super Y? That means they take the whole fall off. I dont think that flies. Plus, like ODP, Super Y has tremendous logistical problems. THere is a reason why SC has only one club that actively participates in Super Y, Aiken is affliated with some clubs from Georgia. GFC, in affliation with the Greenville Lions, participated one or two years but decided to scrap its participation. You might ask Why?

Lowerstate4A - I agree with most of your comments. Super Y is a growing alternative for competitive players. Yes! It has it's downside, but is a alternative. Yes! It can conflict with High School and summer, but for many players they already train & play year around. Many do not play High School Ball to train on a better team. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. The mega merger would allow more participation at this level.
Yes! I am aware of the Challenge & Classic level! I will assume that many of you have participated long enough to know that the Challenge League is relatively young in South Carolina (I think it was official in 2002 or 2003 can't remember). With the increase in higher level play there will need to be discussion on how to group these teams to best fit their goals. SCYSA & Clubs discussed this two or three years ago and defined who could advance to these Cups. I think last year 03 was first year the Classic and American Cup was a OPEN CUP! Many can review the PMSL & SCSCL sites and see the number of teams in each group. The new premier teams did very well against other challenge teams and due to the lack of participation some age groups had to combine with older age groups just to form a group. SC has a new and growing problem in how to properly provide for each level of player(it is a good problem to have, just need to work together). A club merger is not the only solution and could create more player pool short falls. I disagree that SCYSA is giving everyone a choice - I believe they are doing the best they can with the feedback they receive, but more round table discussions need to take place to help clubs solve growing player pool problems. Proper player & team placement will continue to help develop players while not discouraging other players..

Super Y was fun to watch here in Charleston with the Battery, but needs to be more supported by all of S.C., not just Charleston.

seethepitch - I like your posts but could you put some paragragh breaks in the long posts. It is hard to absorb a long post if it smashed altogether.

Lowerstate4A - Actually Super Y is looking to go year round in the next year or two. I thought it was suppose to happen in 2005.

I would love to see the competition in Soccer programs such as SCYSA vs Super Y, it is the American way of life. Competition will only make things better for the parents and players.