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Joined: Feb 2002
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Craig, don't forget the popular phrase "in the opinion of the referee....."
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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Joined: Mar 2009
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kick off
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kick off
Joined: Mar 2009
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Is that in "rules of the game' or "advice to referees'?
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Joined: Feb 2002
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In the opinion...is from "rules of the game". Most of what Aargy is quoting is from advice to referees....which you can take with a grain of salt.
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67
Throw In
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Throw In
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Quote:
Valid point...there is a lot of necessary subjectivity in officiating. Still, to use your example--I think we both agree that a push in the back is not considered legal contact according to the rules/laws of the game (depending on NFHS or FIFA rulebooks, respectively). How much force is necessary for a push in the back to become a foul? According to the rules, any amount should suffice, if the act is committed with intent...the relative strength exerted does not change the decision to commit the action.
The question is, then, how much force is necessary to make the difference between a foul that should be whistled and a foul that should fall under "let 'em play" to avoid "trifling" or taking advantage away from the team that is fouled but continues their attack nonetheless?
So back to what I mean by "calling it wrong," using your example.
Player A is dribbling down the sideline. Defender B, knowing she is beaten, pushes A from behind. A stumbles but retains possession and continues the attack. There is no whistle. I'd consider that calling it right--the illegal contact did not significantly affect the play of the game.
Player A is dribbling down the sideline. Defender B pushes her from behind, causing her to lose control of the ball, which goes out of bounds and is awarded to Team B. No whistle. In this case, the illegal contact caused a change of possession and an advantage for the team that committed it, but the referee decides that a little shove in the back is all part of the game..."rubbin's racin'", if I can quote Days of Thunder. I consider that "calling it wrong," not only because it creates a temporary advantage for the team committing the foul, but letting that kind of contact go, and CONSISTENTLY letting it go, as you advocate (I mean, if you didn't call it 5 minutes ago, you're not going to call it now, right?) usually results in encouraging players to try rougher and rougher play more and more often to see how much they can get away with.
So I'll respond to your question with a question in kind...how many times do you let a player commit a marginal infraction without feeling like they are testing you? How far do you let marginal behavior go before it degenerates into hazardous behavior? How many pushes in the back does a team have to commit before it becomes a pattern rather than an incident, and at what point do you break the precedent of not calling the first one and get control of the pattern?
What if you (perish the thought) actually make a mistake, either with a call or a no-call, realize the mistake was made, and then are faced with the same type of situation minutes later? Do you again make the same call or no-call, just because you did it a few minutes ago and even though you realized it may not have been the best one?
Emerson once said, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Not recognizing developing patterns and changes in the temperament of the game and adjusting your reactions to fit would seem to fall into that category.
That is actually a good example. In the first example the referee should have also acknowledged the push and allowed the play to continue by verbalizing the advantage. That allows the players, fans and coaches know this. 90% of your referees fail to do this, only the good ones do. If your referee is doing this and yelling "play on or advantage" then you know that they know what they are doing.
In the second example, the referee needs to determine if a push actually occured. A player leaning on another player is not a push, a player sticking her arm out slightly from her body is also not a push. A push must be unreasonable force with her arm or hand extended, if it is unreasonable force with no arm or hand extended it is a charge. This is where the referee needs to determine the skill level of the players. I recently did a game in which a US National Team player was on the field for his high school playing against some really lower level opponents who did everything to get the ball away from him. He didn't want me to call anything even when he lost the ball and one time got upset with me that I called a foul against the other team when he thought it was his mistake that caused him to lose the ball. This is also where the opinion of the referee comes into play. What you may think is a push, other people will say no, and that is the beauty of the game. What you want is the referee to consistantly call it a push or not for the grey area situations in a game. What frustrates players the most is when it is called for one team and not the other. If I call a push or handball or other specific foul against one team and they get upset with me, I may remind them I called the same thing against the other team earlier in the game. I never have any problems. If I book a player for not being 10 yards away from the free kick, and I do it again against the other team later, the players from both teams will have more trust and respect and will have a better game.
As to your consistant infractions. If the referee consistantly does NOT call that situation a push, then there is little you can do but accept it. If the referee does call it a push and calls it over and over and over again, then he needs to book some players for PI.
For me, I will warn the player after 2 marginal infractions in a half, the 3rd time at any point after that is a card, the 4th is a send off. If I made a mistake and called it or not called it, I would call the next foul as a foul I would put the last one out of my head. Very very few referees keep track of all the fouls committed by all of the players because of the stupid subsitution rules in High School. It is much easier in college and pro games where players are limited to the number of times they can be on the field, but when two full teams of over 40 players can sub at will it is hard to keep that straight, which is why you hardly ever see a card for PI.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Quote:
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Rule Question: Free kicks: If 10 yards is not asked by the player taking the free kick and the ref does not tell the player to back up 10 yards, can a player receive a yellow card for encroachment?
Absolutely, in fact when I do a game, the first time that happens I book the player, and I never have a problem after that. Being said, you must use some common sense, if a player is 7-8 yards from the ball and only needs to walk back a few steps that is ok. However a player by now should know that 1-5 yards away is not 10, especially if they are on a marked football field!
Players at all levels (NCAA, FIFA and high school) are REQUIRED to give 10 yards, if they fail to do so, whether it is asked for or not, they can be booked.
Please tell me that you do not actually give a card without providing a verbal warning for all to see. This devalues the card given, and does NOT achieve what you think it does. This is an attempt to control a game with cards rather than allowing for a fair game to go on....there is a major difference there!
There are times to give a card directly without a "talking to", but giving 10 yards is not one of them.
Last edited by Soccerboy; 04/04/12 02:08 PM.
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67
Throw In
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Throw In
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67 |
Quote:
Quote:
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Rule Question: Free kicks: If 10 yards is not asked by the player taking the free kick and the ref does not tell the player to back up 10 yards, can a player receive a yellow card for encroachment?
Absolutely, in fact when I do a game, the first time that happens I book the player, and I never have a problem after that. Being said, you must use some common sense, if a player is 7-8 yards from the ball and only needs to walk back a few steps that is ok. However a player by now should know that 1-5 yards away is not 10, especially if they are on a marked football field!
Players at all levels (NCAA, FIFA and high school) are REQUIRED to give 10 yards, if they fail to do so, whether it is asked for or not, they can be booked.
Please tell me that you do not actually give a card without providing a verbal warning for all to see. This devalues the card given, and does NOT achieve what you think it does. This is an attempt to control a game with cards rather than allowing for a fair game to go on....there is a major difference there!
There are times to give a card directly without a "talking to", but giving 10 yards is not one of them.
I look at that this way. Usually when I give a card for failing to give the 10 yards, the player already knows they should be 10 yards away because the first thing out of their mouth is something like "You are supposed to warn me first to give 10 yards."
Really? You know enough to tell me that you know you need to give 10 yards already but you chose not to do it because I need to warn you first. I don't think so.
Now if the player is far enough way that I only have to back them up a few steps then no card, I am talking about the kid who walks right up to the ball and is only a few feet to a few yards away.
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You are splitting hairs here...10 yards is still 10 yards....it is better just to give the one verbal warning so everyone can hear so that you don't cause yourself problems later in the game...just my 2 cents worth....
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
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It's really quite simple. During the pre-game meeting with the captains, you TELL them that the 10-yard rule will be enforced with ONE warning, followed thereafter by cards for OBVIOUS non-compliance. Each team gets one warning ONLY. And you make sure the coaches get the message.
If you REALLY want that to eliminate the dawdling and encroachment, you make the penalty a yellow card to the head coach of the offending team.
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Joined: May 2005
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Backscreen, totally agree and that was the practice I followed when I did ref. It is amazing, especially after they see that first yellow, how quickly the players start following the rules!
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
Backscreen, totally agree and that was the practice I followed when I did ref. It is amazing, especially after they see that first yellow, how quickly the players start following the rules!
.. if that is the rule (and I am not saying it is not), why then does the team taking the free kick have to ask for 10 yards??
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