SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP CESA Press Release: Establishing a Columbia Program

Why not do away will all clubs in the state, and just have CESA bases in the midlands, piedmont, and lowerstate. That way, we can just have a bunch of scrimmages between CESA and the top 18 players in the state will represent south carolina at regionals every year.
Honestly, I like CESA in Greenville, I like the idea of Bridge in the Summerville area, and I like the idea of a merger in Columbia, but where will it end?

>> [futbol(soccer)] Chico, I know the decision you made.... you have in the past posted what I believe to be objective threads.... Can you provide me with rationale as to why this would be good for the state and all the players not the top 18 at each age group.<<

Why is this good for all players not the top 18 in each age group?
I believe that CESA is one of the most misunderstood entities around. Not that what they're trying to do is secret -- these folks are as subtle as being hit on the head with a 2x4. The merger announcement said it, "...full range of services for youth soccer players." The web site said it "CESA was formed to offer more opportunities for youth soccer players..."

Did you notice what occurred last weekend? CESA has 6 challenge teams that are playing in the semifinals of the challenge cup. This is a big deal not for "bragging rights" or anything else like that but because it means that approximately 100 players get to play past the first weekend. Approximately 100 players can get into better tournaments next year. Approximately 100 players have developed additional skills to potentially achieve more in high school play than they would otherwise. I believe that it's a better metric in terms of CESA meeting its core mission than how many state challenge cup titles CESA wins.

For the purposes of challenge cup play, imagine CESA were two clubs consisting of the Premier teams and the Challenge teams. Here's the analysis.

Club Analysis: Semifinal Slots
------------------------------
CESA-PR - 7
CESA-CH - 6
CSC ----- 4
NECSA --- 4
Bridge -- 3
CFC ----- 1
MPSC ---- 1
LCSC ---- 1
CUSC ---- 1
Coastal - 1
NA ------ 1

Did you note the coaches associated with some of the upsets this weekend? Carlos Osorio and the U17B challenge team. Terry Archenhold and the U17G challenge team. Russel Shelley and the U15B challenge team. These are big name coaches -- and are a clear signal as to the importance of the mission.

The classic cup and American cup this weekend are likewise a big deal to CESA and are watched incredibly closely.

Is CESA "perfect"? Heck no. But to cast CESA as only focusing and servicing the premier teams is to describe an elephant as a "snake-like thing" -- while that's true for the elephant's trunk, it rather misses the point.

>> [futbol(soccer)] Chico, I know the decision you made.... you have in the past posted what I believe to be objective threads.... Can you provide me with rationale as to why this would be good for the state and all the players not the top 18 at each age group.<<

Why is this good for the state?
The state is a big place. I'm going to first recast your question in terms of why I think this is good for the Columbia area.

At this time, Columbia-area clubs offer what I term the "myth of choice." Why is it a myth? If I have a kid that wants to play regional- and national-level soccer, there is no choice because no club offers this across multiple age groups and genders. If I have a kid that wants to play social soccer, there is no choice -- the "local" club is where all his friends are and the local club typically has a monopoly on the "local" fields. If I have a kid that doesn't have the skills to play on the "A" team but has a lot of ambition, I typically can't get the level of coaching/training on the "B" team that the "A" team gets so my kid falls farther behind.

I used run a business within a large company. One of the industries we had as customers were banks. Banks then had (and many still have now) financial models based on the theory that once you acquired a customer, that the "switching cost" to go to another bank were so high that you could afford to treat that customer relatively poorly and still retain the customer.

I believe that there is an analogy here with youth soccer clubs. I don't find most youth soccer clubs to be focused on offering additional and better services to its customers...and I believe that the basis for this is that the "switching costs" are relatively high because of the local monopoly on fields and the social interaction once a team is formed. There are certainly counter-examples of this (note: I rather admire what I perceive to be the CRSA model -- offer a high school feeder program and focus on increasing the penetration of soccer in the immediate community -- and if you have more ambitious kids and/or teams then help them make a decision as to whether to go to a club playing at a higher level.)

I believe that CESA will offer a different model of a youth soccer club than any Columbia has yet seen. As such, I think that more Columbia-area players and parents have the chance to get a "real" choice rather than the "myth of choice". You could also make the argument that this will cause Columbia area clubs to have a knee-jerk reaction and do something (e.g., merge, partner, etc.) to provide better services. The problem is that these same clubs haven't done anything significant in the last 18 months; so I can't predict what if anything will change for the better -- but I guess we can always hope. But I have to admit that I've grown a bit skeptical of Columbia-area soccer -- for example, even if CSC and NECSA did some type of knee-jerk merger at this point, it's not clear to me at all that they would be doing so to offer superior services instead of simple fear that they might lose even more ground to the CESA and thus better "circle the wagons." I'd actually rather see CESA and CSC merge because I think it would accelerate offering more and better services to more Columbia youth. But I'm sure that many would find horror in that as well.

Now...back to your original question. Why do I think this is better for the state? Because if I'm a parent in Columbia, or Aiken, or Augusta, or Rock Hill, or Charleston -- I have a shorter driving distance for superior services. Also because I believe that CESA is more focused on increasing the penetration of soccer -- and I want to see improvement in all soccer in the state.

OK... Then let me ask you this.... I "HEAR" that many parents on the challenge level teams are not happy with the premier level placed on a pedestal, when the "B" team is just as capable.

A monopoly is good if your standing within the group, a monopoly is bad if you are outside the group. Being outside I see it differently.

Superior services locally remains to be seen, not practicing with your squad is, in my opinion a problem (I agree with Bdad11). However if the intent is to create a CESA-Midlands SC, then a name is just a name.

practice fields? where do they do it today? How will they do it in the future?

>>[futbol(soccer)] I "HEAR" that many parents on the challenge level teams are not happy with the premier level placed on a pedestal, when the "B" team is just as capable.<<

You're using figurative terms like "placed on a pedestal"; in order to answer you at all I have to understate literally what that means. Concretely, ignoring the Premier teams altogether, CESA has more of their Challenge teams playing in the semifinals than any other club has of any teams in South Carolina.

>>A monopoly is good if your standing within the group, a monopoly is bad if you are outside the group. Being outside I see it differently.<<

CESA isn't a monopoly...even in the GSA (Greenville, Spartanburg, Anderson) metropolitan area. I believe that Greenville area soccer offers much more choice than Columbia area soccer because different clubs exist that specifically differentiate themselves. Foothills Premier, for example, has since CESA was created cast themselves in the mold almost as the "anti-CESA". For example, where CESA focuses on a complete reassessment of the players on a team each year at tryouts, Foothills Premier literature leads you to believe that they focus more on team consistency. Other clubs in the area include USA, Carolina FC (formerly Spartanburg), Clemson (which had a select team based in Greenville), etc.

Certainly CESA offering a youth soccer program in the Columbia metropolitan area doesn't constitute a monopoly. CRSA, CSC, LCSC, and NECSA continue to exist. In fact, CESA could merge with a Columbia club and it still wouldn't result in anything close to a monopoly with respect to providing services to youth soccer players.

>>Superior services locally remains to be seen,<<

Absolutely true; when there is a new service/product on the market it's impossible to judge the quality before it's actually sold and often you can't judge it unless you buy it. You have to make decisions based on what we used to call "incomplete experience". I tried to indicate my subjectivity when I used variations of the term "Why I think" in the post -- it's based on my kid's experience only.

>>not practicing with your squad is, in my opinion a problem (I agree with Bdad11).<<

I don't know of any players at this time that don't practice with their team at least once a week. The majority of non-local players that I know of practice with their teams twice a week. And some practice with their teams three times a week.

However, the following is something from another post I wrote a few days ago which gets to the root of this:

quote:

---

Here's what confuses me the most about those that doubt the "some training remotely" concept -- you've seen it in action for years -- those I know specifically about are the older GFC teams and last year's CESA's teams. It's not like you have to accept anything on faith; the proof is already there.

What I strongly suspect is that there are a lot of people who don't like the "sometimes training remotely" paradigm. I completely understand that. As a parent only training locally is a much simpler concept with which to deal. But it seems strange to confuse what you don't like versus what has been shown to be effective.

---

>>practice fields? where do they do it today? How will they do it in the future? <<

For specific questions, please use the contact information in the press release. I'm not blowing you off -- I'm letting you know that I don't have the details of the new program and if anyone does, it's the folks who operationally run CESA.

To summarize all of this; other than posting the press release, all I've done here is answered your question about what I personally think is the rationale for this being "good." Do I have any biases? Of course, I volunteer at CESA and I have a kid that not only plays there but gets a level of training she wanted that we could not find in Columbia [which circularly comes back to why I volunteer there.]

It is interesting to go back just one year and look at the discussions on this merger topic after CESA took all 8 state championships. The full thread can be accessed below. But a few posts are included here and prophetically concluded by Talon in his statement as to when a merger may take place : "......but only under the right circumstances led by true soccer leaders."
I believe CESA has proven to be and will continue to prove to be true soccer leaders in SC.

http://www.scsoccer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000479#000000

Author Topic: Midlands Soccer [Moved from Thread with **** in Name]
Chico
Registered Member
Member # 1734
posted December 14, 2004 09:12 AM
Moved this to a new thread to focus on what 2004striker wants to talk about.

[2004striker] OK, OK, enough of this CESA Lovefest!! I too applaud the merger and acknowledge your accomplishments in one year, and Mark, as you may have surmised from all of my rants about a Cola merger, I only am pleading for the same in Cola. It is what Cola needs to keep up with you fine folks at CESA. And in the long run a merger here would make SC a stronger, more vibrant soccer state on the regional and national scene. But, for the sake of my personal sanity, can we move on past this Lovefest?
We in the midlands now need to hear from the respective area club officials -CRSA/CSC/LSC/NECSA- who have the power or position to discuss, review and consider a merger. But, my hopes have been dashed like Prancer too many times before with sounds of silence about the merger issue. The afore-mentioned midlands clubs clearly know what the future holds for them. As I have asked too many times before, do you want to field average, convenient teams that may, on occasional odd years, merely challenge for state championships or do you want to field consistent yearly teams that win those championships and go on to regional challenges? Midlands clubs, there is an open goal for a shot, but do you even make an attempt?
Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

Chico
Registered Member
Member # 1734
posted December 14, 2004 09:43 AM
You and I have discussed the idea of a Columbia-area merger on this message board as have others for a very long time. The reasoning had nothing to do with a single upstate club; instead it had to do with the fact that no one in the midstate was offering a full range of services for youth soccer players -- in particular, highly ambitious and talented players.

There are sure to be people who disagree that this is needed -- and quite a few of them have also posted on this message board saying that what the midstate, in particular the Columbia area, now has is fine.

Look -- when my daughter fell in love with soccer and wanted to train instead of sleeping and eating -- I agitated for a while at my daughter's midstate soccer club to take it from a "volunteer" club [USSF lingo] to a "professional" club with higher aspirations. Most people either didn't care or actively didn't want it. I looked around the Columbia area; couldn't find anything that I thought was as serious as she wanted to be. But it wasn't rocket science -- when she was 12 years old (she's 14 now) she began pestering me about taking her to the upstate.

I know that there are teams in the midlands that are wonderful; but the problem is finding a club that is wonderful. You're right; that's not going to happen without a merger. But I don't believe that most parents want a merger. And I don't see any leadership out there, with the exception of Crosby at CSC, who have expressed an interest. While I disagree with his perspective, I have to respect Heise on this board who has prefaced most discussions of this type with something along the lines [I'm paraphrasing] that he's 90% focused on HS soccer in any case. Were that everyone was so honest with respect to intent.

So I think that your choices are to get with CSC and give them your own personal time and energy to build a midlands-dominant soccer club or to use your personal time and energy to get with an upstate-dominant soccer club and help them provide broader and deeper services for all SC players. I chose the latter...and honestly, I chose it before it became a bit more obvious (e.g., before any mergers). But I fully respect anyone who chooses another path.

2004striker, the reason that I think some people attack you about this merger thing is that they see it as "barking at the moon" -- the moon doesn't care. I care -- you care -- but most people don't. I don't like it, but I completely understand that for casual soccer players, what the Columbia area has now meets their most of their needs.

One last note -- and I'm trying to state fact here, not engage in a lovefest. But those CESA teams -- a lot of them have a lot of players from 20 miles, 30 miles, and up to 100 miles away. At one point there was a girl flying in each weekend from California to play on a team. For most of the season, CESA offered two practices a week for Columbia players IN COLUMBIA and the people training were incredibly highly qualified in every sense of the word. Last time I said this on the message board a lot of people told me that this wouldn't produce high-quality teams. I disagree. But regardless, there's yet another option for highly ambitious players in the midlands that aren't lucky enough to find that one really serious team in their gender and age bracket that is five minutes from their home.

2004striker
Registered Member
Member # 2433
Member Rated:posted December 15, 2004 08:34 PM

There is no way that egos can be addressed. The clubs gotta, wanta, haveit. CSC is the only one that indicated a desire to work together with the rest....but nothing came of it last year. CRSA wants to feed players into its area school, which is OK, but will not challenge CESA anytime soon; NECSA wants to win, unless too much winning infringes on the social atmosphere of the club. And I have not a clue as to what LSC wants. They have a great facility there and nice fields, but obviously don't want quality soccer played on them. So....no merger is gonna happen with those mind sets. I have decided, therefore, to start a new club to compete with CESA- it will have no egos, no name or flashy uniforms, no soccer moms,no obnoxious dads, no ODP players allowed, no parents at tryouts or practices cause they ain't gonna be nice and pretty, and no whining about playing time cause we gotta win championships. These are just a few initial regulations of the new club. I gotta work on the name, fees, fields, organization, and a few other things. But I will let you know when I get it all together. Posts: 937 | From: South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Talon
Registered Member
Member # 1987
posted December 15, 2004 08:37PM
2004striker - that's called a pipedream! Sorry to rain on your parade, but that won't happen.

I agree on many of your points and think that Charleston and Columbia would both strengthen their cause with mergers, but only under the right circumstances led by true soccer leaders.

What's your point??? Are you actually falling for this? So what happens when CESA Cola beats CESA Greenville??? OR when 75% of the kids in cola dont want to go to Greenville to train? Will they not have too? Will there be only one team?


TOO many questions.

Duh, yeah....I'm falling for it....Maybe I be stupid....but with Heilich and Crosby in charge its a no-brainer.

Shearer: I completely understand this line of thinking; it's the same thing that was said when CESA was announced. And you're right -- there are an enormous number of questions -- just as there were when CESA was announced.

I understand skepticism; I even understand cyniscm given the experiences that many have had with respect to the youth soccer club environment in the Columbia area. And there's no doubt that it's not going to be for everyone.

But what I don't understand is why there would be negativity about another option for players and their parents in the Columbia area.

No NO not anything negative about CESA just too many question w/out answers. You are right CESA has done great.....but this is year two right?

I like to see it this way......take a new night club/ bar in five points or any college town.....man that place is "off the hook" for a few months/years then BANG its gone why???? people stop going and you have to change the name. Now when you walk back in the this place it has the same old bathrooms and smae old drinks but a new name and EVRYONE loves it.....Well this is my opinion of club soccer.

I am glad kids have "other options" ...I am glad the level of play is better etc.....to be honest if EC is in w/ CESA Iam glad he is sticking it to those CSC board members.....but there are way too many questions to not be "carfeful" about this "merger"

Chico,

Any word on where CESA Cola will train?.