Bluffton boys soccer team banned from postseason play
http://www.islandpacket.com/sports/local/story/566174.htmlSam McDowell, The Island Packet
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An ugly ending to the Bluffton High School soccer team's season in May will cost next year's squad a chance to compete for a state championship.
On Friday, the South Carolina High School League executive committee upheld commissioner Jerome Singleton's ruling to ban the Bluffton boys from postseason play in 2009 because of an incident that took place in a season-ending playoff loss on May 6.
With the Bobcats trailing 4-2 to Airport High School in that contest, Bluffton's J.P. Sandoval received a red card with time winding down on the Bobcats' season. His teammate, Erick Velez, responded by shoving the center referee, effectively ending the game.
Bluffton athletics director Dave Adams received news Monday that the team would be banned from participating in postseason play, a decision he immediately appealed to the executive committee.
Adams argued that the school's punishment -- which included a suspension for Velez -- was strict enough, and therefore no additional penalties were necessary.
The executive committee disagreed, denying the appeal on Friday.
"We have more problems in soccer than any other sport," Ted Greene told the (Columbia) State on Friday. Greene, the principal at Mullins High School, is an executive committee member. "We have got to send a strong message."
Adams said Velez is no longer at Bluffton High School, and that he won't be a part of the Bobcats soccer team next season. But that didn't affect the committee's ruling Friday.
"It's unfair to hold the rest of the team responsible," Adams said. "But it's a life lesson. If you are part of a team, you have to pay the consequences of the team. ... I just hate it for the seniors."
Bluffton still will play its full slate of regular season games next spring. And it will be allowed a chance to win the Region 7-AAA championship, a title claimed by Hilton Head Island High School last season.
Is there any proof to his statement??? Or is it that every little thing that happens in our sport, they blow it up as a big issue?
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Is there any proof to his statement??? Or is it that every little thing that happens in our sport, they blow it up as a big issue?
Good question!
We know that every high school in the state has an athletic director either at the school itself or at the district level. There are various schools of size depending on what part of the state you live. Obviously, Mullins HS is a Class 2A school in a relatively rural area of the Pee Dee region. This Principal or ADs mindset is that of many in the S.C. High School League when they hear that "soccer leads all sports in the number of ejections".
Well, what they don't understand is that soccer's rules are unlike any other in prep athletics. In football, a personal foul results in a 15-yard penalty. In basketball, five personal fouls results in an ejection. In baseball, a pitcher throwing at a batter winds up being a warning. In soccer, a tackle from behind can be interpreted as a straight-red card, though it might be a "professional foul" in the realm of the soccer world. So, when these start tallying up around the Palmetto State, then prep soccer receives a black-eye.
Will it change? Probably not in my lifetime, but the S.C. High School Soccer Coaches has worked diligently at relaying this message at various levels with the SCHSL, the S.C. Athletic Coaches Association, etc. However, an AD or Principal with 30 years under his belt and who probably was reluctant to add soccer in the first place at their school -- note, Mullins has not won a boys soccer match in at least five years (2004-08) -- and you are going to get some backlash whether it is deserved or not.
In the Midlands area, local sports radio personality Teddy Heffner of AM-1400 "The Team" hosts a daily show from 7-10 a.m., entitled "Talking Sports". Nearly every Thursday, Airport AD Kirk Burnett is a guest for one hour (8-9 a.m.). I have heard him comment on soccer throughout his stints at Ridge View HS (football/baseball coach) and Airport (AD/football coach) as having 'problems' that ADs have to deal with constantly. He said this past spring that 'every soccer season its the same discipline problems' with soccer.
I'm not blaming anyone in this matter, but it is something that coaches, players, parents, fans, and referees need to be cognizant of and an area in which needs to be addressed and worked on even more by people involved with 'our game'. If you have any suggestions, please list them in this thread.
Unfrotunately, no matter what, we won't change the perception these AD's and principals have on our beloved sport. It's rather unfortunate that one event involving one player, and automatically they view every kid as a problem if they play soccer. Well, last time i checked, these kids are enrolled in your school, probably play the "major" sports in the fall and winter, but yet when tehy're on the field, they are violent kids who have no control or self-discipline. Down in my area we have to deal with issues that should not even be issues, thus creating a bad atmosphere where the players feel unappreciated and take the "i don' give a flying ****" attitude since the "top dogs" pay them no mind.I think i'll stop now before i really explode............
so it's okay to punch a ref???? Are we missing the point??
offsides,
No one is arguing about whether the punishment fit the crime. The discussion here is centering on how to "win over" Neanderthals like Mr. Greene.
Hurst, I see what you are saying. I wish soccer would get its due respect as a competitive high school sport.
not punched - Erick Velez, responded by shoving the center referee. And the whole team has been banned from post season play. Sounds just and fair, right?
Velez has left the school and Singleton couldn't touch/torch him so he reached out and took it out on the team. That's my read on it. Most AD don't pay any attention to soccer especially when you're tearing up the football field. If an issue comes up with soccer most AD's are put out with having to deal with it.
Does this not sound like a visionary to you?
"We have more problems in soccer than any other sport," Ted Greene told the (Columbia) State on Friday. Greene, the principal at Mullins High School, is an executive committee member. "We have got to send a strong message."
Glad he's not at my kid'sschool.
How many times have you seen a football team banned from post season play? Face it folks..everyone loves football so these kids can do whatever and most don't care for or about soocer.. I have a hard time believeing that Mullins High has a soccer problem..Student problems I can swallow..
How many players on a soocer team? and how many on football? Do the math..Mr Greene
I think Northwestern's football team (or was it Rock Hill's?) got the death penalty a few years back after a brawl.
Also, every great high school football player in Charlotte is trying to weasel his way into South Pointe and the SCHSL is taking a tough stand.
Check this out from today's Rock Hill Herald:
http://www.heraldonline.com/news/sports/story/722292.html
Jerome doesn't care!!! Doesn't even review the situation!!! Why are they getting penaltized for a player that doesn't even go there even more?
And speaking on the Kirk Burnett thing, what has he done??? He doens't know a D$$$ about soccer. He wants to make his football team that won't make it to the lower state championship at any point be bigger that they will ever will be. Lets talk about the people or programs that actually care about the sport of soccer Mr. Heise!!!!
Acutally Mr. Jackson, the statement made by the Mullins HS principal is exactly what the SCHSL and its' governing members think of prep soccer. I'll expand on what Kyle has already identified in his statement.
What the SCHSL body sees is that the "number of ejections" in soccer are significantly higher than any other HSL sanctioned sport. The reality is that the sport of soccer inherently has more "ejections" due to the nature of the game.
For example, in basketball, you may get a breakaway and the defending team commits a hard and obvious foul to prevent the layup. The penalty in basketball is a two-shot foul (or the more severe 'intentional foul' ruling), but a SINGLE foul for the defending player, of which he is allowed FIVE to commit during the game. When the player fouls out after the five allotted fouls, he is not considered "ejected" per rules.
In soccer, a breakaway and subsequent takedown from behind would be ruled a straight red card and immediate sending off, hence "ejection."
It's apples and oranges. All high school coaches and fans of the game should do their best to educate their athletic directors and administrators in the nuances of soccer, so it is better understood.
By the way Samuel, up kind of late weren't you?
as a coach and referee for youth soccer, shoving a referee is uncalled for and the player should be suspended from playing, period. i don't think the team should be penalized. it seems more soccer teams are getting screwed due to circumstances ie. dutch fork and others i can't remember, than any other sports.
it seems that no one understands the repurcussions of cards in soccer compared to other sports..and the players and coaches are getting the short end of the stick. it is something that will continue, but it seems in other states you don't hear about teams being banished from playoffs
as for the mullins principal, he may need to go watch his own team play and address his players behaviors on the field.
Yes, it was Northwestern's football team who got in the brawl several years back with Marlboro County Hurst.
Syvelle Newton was the quarterback at the time for Marlboro County (for all of you 'American' football fans
)
Didn't Airport/Bluffton get in a fight several years ago, too?
NW did NOT get the death penalty however. Nothing like that would happen at such a prestigious school.
No body should touch the ref ever. Discipline should be maintained.
To make another point, if there were the proper number of refs on soccer fields like every other sport, this might not happen. Football uses a multiple of what soccer does. If the right number were there maybe the control would be maintain and less ejections would happen. FIFA is thinking about more than the 4 they use. Prep soccer should follow suit to at least a mandatory 3.
My two cents, worth.
I belive the reson the program is on probations is due to the number of red cards the team recived during the year. I speak from experence, the first year of our program we had 7 reds, 4 coming in the second round of the play-offs after we lost, next year on probation. If they can play w/o getting any reds for this season then they can appeal the probation and have a chance to enter the play-offs.
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And speaking on the Kirk Burnett thing, what has he done??? He doens't know a D$$$ about soccer. He wants to make his football team that won't make it to the lower state championship at any point be bigger that they will ever will be. Lets talk about the people or programs that actually care about the sport of soccer Mr. Heise!!!!
Somehow I don't think Mr. Burnett is alone if he in fact is an AD that doesn't know much about soccer. I would venture to guess your average soccer mom knows as much about soccer than most high school AD's. So if you want to talk about those AD's that care a whole lot it wouldn't be a long list or conversation. I firmly believe at most high schools the wrestling team gets more support from AD's. Why? because the wrestling team usually includes a signficant number of football players.
Most AD's were football coaches or are still football coaches, thus the void in knowledge. Wrestling was around when most of the current AD's were kids so they would support it more.
I still believe if the refs were in the control of the match from the on set there would be less issues in soccer, it (expulsions) has to correlate to under manning the ref crews.
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Most AD's were football coaches or are still football coaches, thus the void in knowledge. Wrestling was around when most of the current AD's were kids so they would support it more.
Soccer was around when they were kids too. No doubt most AD's are football coaches - but you would think with the phenomenal growth in youth soccer they would start trying to accept and support it.
But I think the bottom line is money. The revenue sports support the non revenue and most AD's (football coaches) look at non revenue as red headed step children. Always have always will. Check out this link in The State newspaper showing how USC football program’s projected revenues this year of more than $47 million would have made Gamecock football the state’s 19th-largest publicly traded company last year, according to calculations by cbj based on USC athletic department budget data.
Gamecocks cash machine ready to take the field
yes money matters, we have to make that go away, by getting fans in the stands so we break even...
soccer63... read the article with my coffee this morning.
However, you need to take what you read and keep it as that ...Period
The vast majority of D1 schools that have a football team do not come near to what the gamecocks have. In fact the vast majority loose money.
HS wise I would like to see the same breakdown... I will be willing to bet that HS fotball programs do not make the money most people think they do. (no booster club money in the mix)
Coaches salaries, equipment, all those referees, Stadium maintenance and lights, Bus transportation for team, for band, etc...
I do not pretend to know what an AD does everyday. But 4 months of the school year is real work, then you get 2 months off in the summer and the other 6 ou sit in your office looking pretty for pay...???.
I am sure there are exceptions, but that is it... exceptions
I never tried to say the job of an AD is easy - I'm sure it's anything but. I was only saying I hope more AD's throughout the state will start to see soccer as an increasingly vital part of the athletic department. With the phenomenal growth in youth soccer in both rec leagues and club ball they are missing the boat if they don't.
I still say money is a part of their attitudes - I'm sure they come closer to breaking even with football and basketball than most other sports.
Regarding the number of red cards for Bluffton this last year -- prior to the two at the very end of the last game, Bluffton had one red card all year. One. There were, I think, eight the previous year, but the team was trying to change and improve its attitude, working on control and discipline. Until the final ten seconds of the last game, with the actions of one young player, the change had been working.
MC67, where do you base your claim Bluffton had 8 red cards last year? I only remember one early in the season. 8 yellow cards I might agree with.
While I agree that there are differnet standards for ejection between the sports, the fact of the matter is that the rules of our game are the rules of our game. There are plenty of HIGHLY competitive payers who have never had a red card, from club at age ten all the way into college. They get called for stuff, and may get a good warning, but they play the game with respect. Should the next years team suffer because of one kid? I don't know, but a kid who would shove a ref couldn't be a complete surprise to his team or his coach.
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soccer63... read the article with my coffee this morning.
However, you need to take what you read and keep it as that ...Period
The vast majority of D1 schools that have a football team do not come near to what the gamecocks have. In fact the vast majority loose money.
HS wise I would like to see the same breakdown... I will be willing to bet that HS fotball programs do not make the money most people think they do. (no booster club money in the mix)
Coaches salaries, equipment, all those referees, Stadium maintenance and lights, Bus transportation for team, for band, etc...
I do not pretend to know what an AD does everyday. But 4 months of the school year is real work, then you get 2 months off in the summer and the other 6 ou sit in your office looking pretty for pay...???.
I am sure there are exceptions, but that is it... exceptions
I think this is coming from a horribly misunderstood poster. You really, really should research this before you make more comments. I like your work, usually, but this one is not quite on par. A football team can make $40,000 of gate in a night. If it were not for football, the other sports at most schools would be in a lot of trouble. And who do you think takes care of the fields? When mowers break, gym floors need to be redone, parents are upset with the baseball coach, attends games instead of being home, handles eligibility issues, spring practice (some don't acknowledge this exist...AHEM!), bus issues, finding coaches, and on and on and on - who does these things? Being the AD is anything but easy and a 4 month job. People get upset and gripe about football AD's, but I think I'd be upset if my team brought in over 90% of the budget yet I could only spend around 20% of it.
Dale you hit the nail on the head. Don't forget the AD is the one who has to budget and appropriate all funds for the athletics department. So when our economy takes a hit and the athletic budget takes a hit, who do you think has to deal with it? Football is definitely the moneymaker but think about gas prices and when a sport exceeds that budget, where do you think that extra gas money comes from? There is a lot more to it than most people see. Being an AD is anything but easy or pretty.
Thanks soccer2103,
I apologize if I came too strong, but the comments were just too far off base. It's a hard job and we all have our opinions - I wanted both sides to be represented. I've heard so many complaints about football over the years by people who are uneducated in the matter. Same goes for AD's. They sacrifice more than the average coach and I've got respect for them.
AD's are kinda like high school soccer coaches. It's easy for people to make generalizations about them based on a few experiences, but when it comes down to it, it's really the quality and attitude of the individual that determines how well the "big job" gets done.
Yeah, that's what I meant to say!
Kinda like the ol' football coaches that dis soccer as being a communist sport and for having 'long-haired' guys.
Funny, that Cuba is pretty good at baseball and the definition of communism and before he got in trouble at Carolina, Stephen Garcia had some purrty hair too!
The league's reaction to this, in the first week of football, should be telling. From the comments following the article, it appears that coaches were injured and players were arrested.
I am not defending the actions of some Bluffton players, but they seem to pale in comparison to the events at Wilson/Lake City.
http://www.scnow.com/scp/sports/high_sch...r_wilson/13620/
from the article and a reader's response that's right on the mark -
Posted by ( DarkKnight ) on August 29, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Go ahead and cancel the season for both teams and be done with it. Send a signal to every other team in the State, “you fight, you don’t play!”
Sounds like a bunch of thugs being thugs to me. They ought to have to forfeit the rest of their seasons for 'showing out'.
I would certainly like to hear the perspective of Mullins HS Principal Ted Greene, whom is of the Pee Dee brethren of Lake City HS and Wilson HS after the incident Friday night in Florence, S.C.
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Bluffton boys soccer team banned from postseason play
http://www.islandpacket.com/sports/local/story/566174.html
Sam McDowell, The Island Packet
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An ugly ending to the Bluffton High School soccer team's season in May will cost next year's squad a chance to compete for a state championship.
On Friday, the South Carolina High School League executive committee upheld commissioner Jerome Singleton's ruling to ban the Bluffton boys from postseason play in 2009 because of an incident that took place in a season-ending playoff loss on May 6.
With the Bobcats trailing 4-2 to Airport High School in that contest, Bluffton's J.P. Sandoval received a red card with time winding down on the Bobcats' season. His teammate, Erick Velez, responded by shoving the center referee, effectively ending the game.
Bluffton athletics director Dave Adams received news Monday that the team would be banned from participating in postseason play, a decision he immediately appealed to the executive committee.
Adams argued that the school's punishment -- which included a suspension for Velez -- was strict enough, and therefore no additional penalties were necessary.
The executive committee disagreed, denying the appeal on Friday.
"We have more problems in soccer than any other sport," Ted Greene told the (Columbia) State on Friday. Greene, the principal at Mullins High School, is an executive committee member. "We have got to send a strong message."
Adams said Velez is no longer at Bluffton High School, and that he won't be a part of the Bobcats soccer team next season. But that didn't affect the committee's ruling Friday.
"It's unfair to hold the rest of the team responsible," Adams said. "But it's a life lesson. If you are part of a team, you have to pay the consequences of the team. ... I just hate it for the seniors."
Bluffton still will play its full slate of regular season games next spring. And it will be allowed a chance to win the Region 7-AAA championship, a title claimed by Hilton Head Island High School last season.
I wonder if they will be banned from future games, unfortunately it does not say that players were ejected. Therefore it is likely that they will play nevertheless.
I would like to be in that discussion...
Lake City/Wilson placed on probationBy STEVE WISEMAN - swiseman@thestate.comFor the second consecutive year, the Class 3A football champion will not be allowed to defend its title.
Wilson High, which beat Chester in the 2007 final, and Lake City were each fined and placed on one year of probation by the S.C. High School League on Wednesday for fighting following their game last week.
SCHSL commissioner Jerome Singleton, who made the ruling, said neither team will be allowed to compete for their respective region championships or compete the playoffs.
Singleton also said some players were suspended, although he declined to say who, how many or for how long.
“That’s under the privacy of the kids,” he said.
The incident took place just as the final seconds ticked off in Lake City’s 19-12 victory against Wilson last Thursday. SCHSL officials spoke with representatives from both schools and reviewed videotape of the brawl, which reportedly lasted around five minutes.
The decision means the 3A title race is wide open, just as it was last season when 2006 champion Blythewood was banned from the playoffs for violating league practice guidelines.
The teams will see their seasons end with their Oct. 31 regular-season finales unless they appeal the ruling to the Executive Committee and have the penalties reduced.
Reach Wiseman at 803-771-8472
I have been away for a while, but I must say it does not surprise me that Bluffton is suspended for fighting. When my high school played Bluffton their players were more concerned with fouling and having dirty plays off the ball than actually playing soccer. It was very aggravating to play them, throughout the game I told their players just to play soccer. Maybe this suspension happening to Bluffton will settle their players down and their true talent can come out because they truly are a talented team.
I did not see it here, but both schools had players suspended from playing ALL sports this year. over 20 players from each school were suspended for 2 games. I dont think thats enough.
sounds like they need a coach who can instill discipline in them
I am the current coach at Bluffton High School. Last season was my first season with the team. There had actually been an improvement in discipline until that final match. I do not condone the actions in the Airport came at all. Anyone at the game can agree with me. I had the players apologize the the ref. and kicked one player off the team for good. The other individual was graduating. I accept the ban and feel that it is a good lesson for the boys. We had a good season up to that last game and while it is unfortunate that the final game overshadowed our season, I still do not condone the actions of those players. That is not the type of program I want to run and I am taking all the neccessary steps to making those changes. It unfortunately takes more than 1 season to implement my methods. To get everyone on the same page, we are banned from post-season playoffs, any tournaments or jamborees. Good luck to all in the upcoming season.
Best Reguards,
Coach Cook
I was an assistant coach for Airport in this match last year. Other than the last play, it was a very clean and exciting match. Although one or two players crossed the line with their attitudes, the rest of the team did not. What most people do not know was that the entire Blufton team and both coaches were trying to restrain the player that pushed the ref. Afterward every single player on that team apologized to the Airport players and wished them luck in the playoffs, the Blufton fans did the same.
It's easy to pick on teams that we just "hear the story about" on scsoccer but unless you were there, you really can't understand. If Coach Cook says the ban is probably for the best for his team, then nothing else really needs to be said on the subject. I also agree that it takes a while to fix major discipline problems and with a new coach it does not happen over night. It was about 5 months ago so we should all forget the past and look forward to a great year of soccer ahead of us!
Kum Bah Ya? C'mon, are you seriously poking fun at a coach for not kicking another program while its down?
At the risk of attracting the attention of any witty commentators, I'll go ahead and add that Coach Cook has done a remarkable job of instilling discipline and respect in his team and players. I realize that much good can be overshadowed and even undone by one bad incident (and the incident was bad), but soccer2103's point making broad assumptions based on limited facts is valid and admirable.
Lastly, with all due respect to Coach Cook and his acceptance of the penalty, I'm going to go ahead and say unequivocably that the decision by the SCHSL was just wrong. If the SCHSL wants to "send a strong message", then first identify the problem (if any), then tailor the message to address the problem, and then "send a strong message". Mr. Greene's wreckless and ignorant comment that "we have more problems with soccer than any other sport" demonstrate that the action by SCHSL was a knee-jerk reaction that is not based in fact, sound reasoning or any probability that a problem will be remedied.
Of course, it may be unfair to Judge Mr. Greene or the SCHSL based on one comment or action - perhaps I should look at the comment or action in context, determine if it is indicative of a larger problem that has a probability of repeating and then comment appropriately.
Thank you for all of your support. Between the death of our captain, Josh George, and the recent ban, we have large lesson to learn that goes beyond the game. I refuse to give up on my guys and will continue to work on the discipline issue as well as any other experiences we may encounter. Thank you again and good luck this coming season.
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Is there any proof to his statement??? Or is it that every little thing that happens in our sport, they blow it up as a big issue?
Good question!
Will it change? Probably not in my lifetime, but the S.C. High School Soccer Coaches has worked diligently at relaying this message at various levels with the SCHSL, the S.C. Athletic Coaches Association, etc. However, an AD or Principal with 30 years under his belt and who probably was reluctant to add soccer in the first place at their school -- note, Mullins has not won a boys soccer match in at least five years (2004-08) -- and you are going to get some backlash whether it is deserved or not.
...
I'm not blaming anyone in this matter, but it is something that coaches, players, parents, fans, and referees need to be cognizant of and an area in which needs to be addressed and worked on even more by people involved with 'our game'. If you have any suggestions, please list them in this thread.
I know I've been MIA for a while, but this topic struck me as a good homecoming opportunity as I have personal experience in this area..
Plain and simple, more parents, ex-players, non-SCHSL coaches, school representatives, and maybe some JOURNALISTS need to get INFORMED and INVOLVED in promoting soccer culture awareness.
It is pretty disheartening for the league's soccer coaches association to have a proposal that is backed by 80+ percent of its members voted down UNANIMOUSLY by their parent association.
Coaches can't do all the work, as their livelihood relies on these "Neanderthals" (which doesn't help soccer/SCHSL relations) athletic directors. Coaches need the public to back their proposals and initiatives.
Alumni groups, Booster clubs, etc...
All it takes is a newsletter (via Myspace, Facebook, e-mail list serve, etc...) asking for assistance. Coordinate and act.
Last year Lugoff-Elgin alumni had some issues with the athletic director who was telling the new principal some inaccuracies about the approval process. A weeks worth of phone calls, e-mails, and headaches was all it took to insure that everyone was well informed and that there would be no doubt in the future about whether a match/refs/etc should be scheduled.
I can go on and on about this, but the point is, we have to utilize our resources. This site alone has helped bring SC soccer out of the dark ages, now the SC soccer community needs to help the guys at the top.