SC Soccer
Posted By: 202677 Shortage of Officials - 04/20/16 09:47 PM
I've been officiating some games this year, first time in a while and know that in the mid-state there have been game cancellations/postponements because of a shortage of referees. I've spoken with several officials and Dennis Cook, our assignor, about these issues and have the following suggestions.

(1) Boys and Girls Varsity should play doubleheaders on Tuesday/Friday night and have Boys & Girls JV play on Monday/Thursdays. This way you get the best crews for the Varsity matches and perhaps allow a seasoned official to work with newbies (like myself) during the JV games.

(2) Have Girls JV/Varsity play doubleheaders on Monday/Thursday and Boys JV/Varsity on Tuesday/Friday. Again, you eliminate almost half of the games being focused solely on Tuesday/Fridays as it is now. Maybe play March one way and April another (i.e. - M/Th for Girls in March and Tu/Fr in April).

(3) Game times should not start before 5:45 pm. I don't know if I've done one '5:30' game this year that has started on time. It's too hard for teams transportation to get there - most have to run a regular route after school and THEN go pick up the sports teams. Another problem is many of the coaches and certainly the officials don't work at the schools, so you have them either late (one-man system to start) and other times them sprinting to make kickoff (after they sign in for paperwork and such). Heck, one of the guys I was working with the other day got a speeding ticket en route to the JV game and was 30 minutes late due to being pulled over! Whoever schedules teams from Rock Hill, Florence, Sumter, and Aiken to make it to Columbia for a 5:30 pm game must be hallucinating.

(4) We should have three-man crews for the 'big games.' It's too hard for two of us to monitor and do our job effectively. Sometimes it's hard for us to do it with three! I know it's more money, but this should be required at the Varsity level.

(5) How many times must we argue/discuss the JV overtime rules. It's simple, if the game is tied at the end of regulation, then you go to OT/PKs, IF there is enough time to start the Varsity game on time. Unfortunately, if you have a 5:30 start time plus an hour game and 10 minute halftime, you're at 6:40 -- if you started on time, which is very rare. I think JV should go to two-flat 35 minute halves and end in a tie if level at the end of regulation, thus no overtime.

Now, who do we direct these suggestions to?
Posted By: eMnAvA Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/20/16 10:37 PM
Athletic Directors and the High School League. Nothing can change without AD support.
Posted By: coachb Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/23/16 11:15 AM
So I used to be a ref, both for club and for high school. I then started coaching for club. I quickly remembered why I hated coaches, because I had become one of those "complaining all the time coaches". Honestly, I don't know if it's the coaches as much as it is the parents who complain. I refereed because I like soccer, I like being on the field and I thought I added value to the young people playing the game.
I don't think I will ever ref again, though. The money isn't worth the aggravation. I understand competitive nature, because like I said, I have been on both sides...not to mention I played since I was knee high to a grasshopper. If something isn't enjoyable, you just don't do it anymore. That's the stance I have. Some may disagree with me, but I think most would say I was a pretty good ref. When you lose the younger guys/gals who can keep up with play and who know the way players play (not just sticking to the rule book), the pool of people who want to ref is left depleted. We all know the money isn't going to change to make it more attractive, so unless we change as coaches and parents, and yes I am now both, there will always be a shortage of capable refs.
Posted By: Old Gal Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/23/16 08:06 PM
So, you think the money is a factor? A sobering fact is that a high school referee will make more in four months than a head soccer coach! And it doesn't matter how good he/she is at officiating.
Posted By: arrgy Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/24/16 03:11 PM
How are you going to start matches at 545 if you have a Varsity doubleheader that must have a winner. If that first match goes to PK's you may not start the second match until close to 8pm. If that second one goes to PK's then you wont be done until close to 1030pm.

Why must the JV game have a winner at all? It doesn't "count" for state playoffs, so why not just allow the game to end in a tie.

The absolute best solution is to move the girls season to the fall, that takes half the games off the board and allows for three man games.
Posted By: SharksFutbol Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/24/16 10:51 PM
Originally Posted By: arrgy
How are you going to start matches at 545 if you have a Varsity doubleheader that must have a winner. If that first match goes to PK's you may not start the second match until close to 8pm. If that second one goes to PK's then you wont be done until close to 1030pm.

Why must the JV game have a winner at all? It doesn't "count" for state playoffs, so why not just allow the game to end in a tie.

The absolute best solution is to move the girls season to the fall, that takes half the games off the board and allows for three man games.




Yeah that's not happening
Posted By: James Gray Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/25/16 03:16 PM
why not move the boys season to the fall, most states in the US do this. Also, I don't see any issues with games starting at 4:30 or 5PM. I live in Illinois now, and most games have start times in this timeframe. Nobody around here seems to have an issue with getting to games on time, and we have plenty of referees. We also don't play the JV games to a "winner", if it ends in a tie, it ends in a tie.
Posted By: Warrior Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/25/16 03:56 PM
Originally Posted By: James Gray
why not move the boys season to the fall, most states in the US do this. Also, I don't see any issues with games starting at 4:30 or 5PM. I live in Illinois now, and most games have start times in this timeframe. Nobody around here seems to have an issue with getting to games on time, and we have plenty of referees. We also don't play the JV games to a "winner", if it ends in a tie, it ends in a tie.


Boy, I bet there would be some facility conflicts with this one over football. How does NC do it?
Posted By: T. Robinson Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/25/16 04:57 PM
Back in the olden days at my high school, in NC, we had games on Monday and Wednesday. JV football had games on Thursday and Varsity Football on Friday. No one practiced on the game field, but by late October it was awful. This was in Asheville and now most schools have artifical turf. The FB teams practice on the turf and decent grass field nearby; the soccer team in a glorified cow pasture.

Having grown up playing high school in the fall, I much prefer having our season in the Spring.
Posted By: 202677 Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/25/16 08:56 PM
I would definitely vote against a move to the fall season. That would be a death-nail to high school soccer. Heck, I find it intriguing that college soccer wants to move to Fall/Spring season with championships in late Spring, early summer like baseball. However, you talk about a shortage of officials. Many that we have now, do college, club, and HS games. This would only increase the shortage, especially of top-notch officials that would opt to do the college games for more money.
Posted By: Coach C Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/26/16 02:00 PM
I were unable to play 2 games last year due to a lack of referees. I regularly have a $330 bill for 2 referees (due to travel) coming for a JV & Varsity game which I gladly pay promptly.
The shortage has not been an overnight issue, but one that has been building for the last 5-6 years.
Changes need to be made and here are my suggestions:

1. Require Sportsmanship from coaches and fans towards the referees. The red card to the fan/coach that abuses the referee should be coming out much quicker and coaches & AD's need to emphasize this to their fans.

2. Recruit more referees. I encourage all my seniors to get certified. The money is easy for a college student and it adds to the pool.

3. Make the process for becoming a referee more transparent and with greater flexibility for the applicant. Yes it is an online test, but the workshop/class attendance is restrictive to many in how few the clinics are (many of my former players just couldn't make the dates/times).

4. Assignments need to be based upon needs: Get back to the basics: All teams should be able to have a minimum of 2 referees for each game. Big games among the 3A & 4A schools may want a 3rd official, but to deny 2 schools the chance play because then can't get a referee at all is wrong and selfish.
4A. Make the referee assignments sooner. We often don't find out assignment until hours before a game. Weather related changes cause huge headaches for all, but the regular schedule needs to have greater advance warning so we quit working in an panic mode for referee assignments.


These are a few of the issues that others have states and I see as our bigger issues.
Posted By: Germany Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 03:21 PM
Now that the thread is dead I will add to it. A and AA boys soccer (and some AAA programs) would be dead if it moved to the fall, a lot A and AA teams have a core of football players that we recruit to "give soccer a try." I am at a medium size AA school and we couldn't even come close to fielding a boys team if it moved to the fall.

However, moving the girls wouldn't disrupt us as much, and in fact might help us as softball and track athletes could participate. This would alleviate half the strain on refs but might interfere with club activities. And I would love to see football coaches have to share facilities with girls soccer, as we know everything in the fall is about football, I can hear them now.

In reality the only real solution is to recruit more refs. I wouldn't never do it as I ref'd a B-Team basketball game years ago (6th graders) and got hammered by the coaches and fans, even the players - not worth it to me. It is only going to get worse as we grow our programs and schools, besides facility use is going to cause more problems as lacrosse grows throughout the state.
Posted By: Alister DeLong Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 05:06 PM
The shortage of refs isn't a quick fix.
I think the assignors and teams need to try to coordinate certain days for certain classifications and give them the priority. A and AA on Mondays and Wednesdays and AAA-AAAAA on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, or something like that. A region game should take precedent over a non region game.
Not saying it will work but it's an idea.

Fall soccer won't work for high school because they you are asking club soccer to play in the spring. Too many moving parts and too many egos to make it work.
Posted By: eMnAvA Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 05:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Alister DeLong
The shortage of refs isn't a quick fix.
I think the assignors and teams need to try to coordinate certain days for certain classifications and give them the priority. A and AA on Mondays and Wednesdays and AAA-AAAAA on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, or something like that.


You do realize there are more teams in 3A - 5A than the A/AA divisions right? Also why as a 2A team should I always play on a Monday for Region. I did that this season and I feel like it's bogus. If you're going to go that route then let 1A Schools do their games on Monday/Wednesday. 2A/4A get Tuesday/Thursday. 3A/5A get Monday/Wednesday/Friday.
Posted By: Alister DeLong Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 06:01 PM
It was just an example.

Yours sounds better than mine. My point was more refs aren't magically going to show up next year so an alternative solution is necessary.
Posted By: SharksFutbol Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 06:38 PM
We need to figure out a program or system where players can get certified while in HS & hope that at least 20-30% continue reffing. I don't know about y'all, but the more actual soccer players refereeing games, the better refereeing will get. Our varsity team currently has 3 certified ref's that do local leagues & SCYSA games in our area on weekends. Out of the 3, one really enjoys doing it. That's 1/3 that will continue to referee.

Some players don't even know they can get certified during HS. Now, will every player do it? Heck no. Will every kid that does it continue for years? Maybe not. But if we can get some sort of pipeline or program that gets these kids certified early, it might help elevate our referees in numbers & quality for the future
Posted By: eMnAvA Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/27/16 09:55 PM
Wasn't trying to sound rude Alister, just a subject that I see beaten like a dead horse. I do feel like we should encourage players to be a ref. The money is somewhat easy to make. Sadly, with the way parents, coaches, and players act I'm not surprised that officials are dropping
Posted By: Alister DeLong Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/28/16 12:27 PM
eMnAvA, I agree about that the topic has been beaten to death and I didn't take your response to sounding rude. My earlier response was just a generic solution that I didn't really put much thought in and just put out there.
I couldn't agree more that we need to get our players involved and I think Bucky, down here in the lowcountry, does a great job of mentoring and teaching young refs the proper way to do things. I think that soccer clubs need to get more involved in trying to recruit refs. I'm going to try to get Summerville Soccer Club to try to create a program that will get some of the older kids involved with reffing the micro kids.
Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic Re: Shortage of Officials - 04/28/16 01:26 PM
Alister get your point but can't say we don't try.
In the lowcountry last year Cainhoy Athletic sponsored and hosted two ref classes (grade 8 and 9) on Daniel Island.

By sponsored I mean (we) pay for any candidate associated with our club taking the course at no small expense.
We had pretty good turn out and a number of the participants have continued to ref and boost the community.

Here is a novel idea. For all those entities associated with providing and hosting soccer (clubs, schools, etc.) and certainly those with a profit motive, consider refs a cost of doing business and help fund them. I'm all about low cost soccer and often I ponder why the only guy at a lower level game that is paid are the refs, but discounting that, I do think it is a reasonable ask for us to put some skin in the game, and for ref associations to LOWER the cost of certification. Certainly I'll state here that Cainhoy Athletic will work with local schools to provide ref clinics and to some degree underwrite said activities but I'd like to see some others like SCYSA, REF Assoc, School Districts, and other clubs pony up. How about that? Any takers?

The ref issue in my opinion is much bigger than just parental or coach abuse that obviously should be discouraged at all levels
I know several great refs and many who choose to longer ref local games due to many reasons beyond abuse. I personally would rather ref City of Charleston rec games on a Saturday because they are 'easier', scheduled back to back, on my backdoor step, and guaranteed.

Club games and I imagine High School are trickier animals as the scheduling falls outside central control and venues shift and change due to any number of reasons. Consider our lowcountry and the shift from LSYSA to Coastal League a while ago. One of the outcomes of that was decentralized scheduling. Of course that has pros and cons but the biggest problem is game alignment and ref consideration.

Offering clubs and even team level discretion on games is great for the coach who manages three teams but not so for scheduling simplicity
Politics and egos often restrict single venue games and all these issues add to the scheduling issues that make work identification and ease harder for the new ref.

Stopping now before I get myself in trouble.
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