Effect of ECNL on Viking Cup

There's a difference between no drama and people getting along, lol. Any time you put 2 or more girls together, you WILL get drama...that's life. The difference is in whether or not you have a TEAM of players or a group of players. A team is a cohesive unit that works together towards a similar goal and has fun doing it because it's not a means to an end. A group is just a bunch of individuals working for their own goals, regardless of the people around them.

My question was, basically, whether the kids these days are playing on teams, like we used to, or are they just a bunch of individual players doing whatever is needed for themselves without being a cohesive, supportive unit.

we made a choice this weekend on where to go play. when the decision was made about san antonio we had no idea when the cup was.

HH -- ummm??? you've been a member since 2005 and read this board regularly per your 900+ posts and you had "no idea" when the Viking Cup was? I find that strange.

You had to know it was going to be the first weekend of March or the last of February, but you wanted to be elitist and act as if you're daughter will have the opportunity to go to a D1 out-of-state school of ACC/SEC caliber rather than slum around at a prep event where only in-state schools will be.

BTW, where IS Alex going to school? Surely she's already committed somewhere hasn't she?

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we made a choice this weekend on where to go play. when the decision was made about san antonio we had no idea when the cup was.

HH -- ummm??? you've been a member since 2005 and read this board regularly per your 900+ posts and you had "no idea" when the Viking Cup was? I find that strange.

You had to know it was going to be the first weekend of March or the last of February, but you wanted to be elitist and act as if you're daughter will have the opportunity to go to a D1 out-of-state school of ACC/SEC caliber rather than slum around at a prep event where only in-state schools will be.

BTW, where IS Alex going to school? Surely she's already committed somewhere hasn't she?

i had a older daughter that only played 1 year of jv soccer.so no, i had no idea when the viking cup was. have never been there to watch it or couldnt tell you who has ever won it.you state the first weekend of march or the last of feb so i guess you were not sure when it was either.
im not sure where my youngest will end up playing. maybe she will decide not to play in college at all. still a long ways away.nothing wrong with playing at the cup in front of in-state schools but going to san antonio had more exsposure.
im not sure if you are asking about my alex but if you know her name then you already know where she plays.
dont get me wrong. even if i knew when the cup was she may of went to san antonio anyways.

I see both sides of this. It is hard to commit to 2 teams. Both are important. I would hope that everyone involved would stay focused on what is important for each team and player and handle it in appropriate manner. HH please don't mention names... I am sure neither would want to be named on here like this.

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I only have knowlege of how one Clubs thinks (here in the Upstate), it's "life or death" if you miss this ECNL event.

Wow. Which club is that? The club that I know of in the upstate had players missing off of 2 of the 3 teams they took to San Antonio, and it certainly wasn't life or death. Nobody has been punished. Nobody was benched. Nobody was alienated. (I don't know if I spelled that right) On the other hand, I know that some kids missed their high school preseason tournament and had to do an insane amount of fitness as punishment before going. One player who missed the preseason tournament was heard this weekend saying "my hs coach hates me now". Nice.

By the way, the number of college coaches that is being thrown around as having attended the ECNL event should not be 90. There were 150+ registered. There were some there that were not registered. And yes, USC and Clemson watched CESA play in San Antonio. As did USC-Upstate, Davidson, Western Carolina and several other local schools that are nowhere near the west coast. Why go out to Texas to watch club players that are right in your backyard? So you can see them play against that level of competition. It was also nice to see Yale talking to our coaches about our players and seeing Princeton at our hotel.

Still an easy choice in my opinion.

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I see both sides of this. It is hard to commit to 2 teams. Both are important. I would hope that everyone involved would stay focused on what is important for each team and player and handle it in appropriate manner. HH please don't mention names... I am sure neither would want to be named on here like this.

what names have i mentioned?

I saw several S.C. college coaches in and about the Viking Cup this past weekend. I don't know many out-of-state coaches, so I cannot speak to that, but I saw a good number of in-state coaches there.

Really? Can you be more specific than "several" and "a good number"? Which particular schools did you see?

Hey Harry - At the VC this past weekend, I saw coaches from Lander, Francis Marion, NC State, Coker, Georgia, S. Carolina, N. Carolina, Coastal Carolina, College of Chas. and Furman. I can't say if a rep from Yale attended, I may have missed them when I went to the bathroom.

Saw Anderson too!

Yeah? UNC sent someone to watch the Airport vs. Mauldin game? They also sent a coach to San Antonio (along with every other member of the ACC) to watch games between some of the best clubs in the country. I call that multi-tasking at it's best. Maybe not the best use of resources, but good multi-tasking.

How many of these ECNL players are looking to play at colleges other then the ones in the Carolinas and surrounding states?

I know in the past there haven't been many...

On the CESA website, I'm seeing players that have gone to:

Washington & Lee X 4
Kentucky
Richmond
Alabama
Iowa St.
Southern Cal.
Ohio St.
Oklahoma Baptist
West Point
Milligan
Liberty X 2
Vassar
Marshall X 4
Howard
Towson
Villanova
Johns Hopkins
Georgetown
Tampa
Virginia Tech
Radford
Palm Beach Atlantic

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I see both sides of this. It is hard to commit to 2 teams. Both are important. I would hope that everyone involved would stay focused on what is important for each team and player and handle it in appropriate manner. HH please don't mention names... I am sure neither would want to be named on here like this.

Why would you not want names mentioned? I'm sure if they're steadfast in their conviction that they would welcome their name being associated with sitting out the Viking Cup. They obviously had THEIR best interests at heart and not that of their high school team. If you look at it from a ME standpoint, then the player going to ECNL is correct. IF you look at it from a high school team perspective, then going to the Viking Cup is correct. Either way, I'm sure the player is convinced that what they did was correct and would stand by that decision in public. Can we ask for a CESA list of players that participated in the ECNL event and what schools were directly affected by them not attending the Viking Cup?

Of course, there are many others that played in the Carolinas and Georgia. I think there are lots of players who don't know exactly where they want to go until someone recruits them. Then they research that particular school and make a decision as to whether or not it is a good fit. Thus making it a good idea to get the most exposure playing against the best competition you can find. Sometimes that will mean making choices about what is best for you as a player.

Washington & Lee ???? Are you kidding me??? Where in the @#$% is that?

Washington & Lee is in Lexington VA and boasts one of the better law schools in the country.

Last year the women's soccer team went 10-6-2 overall with a 7-3-1 record in the Old Dominion Athletic Conference.

RESCL: They are children who are not of legal age.

Can we ask for a CESA list of players that participated in the ECNL event and what schools were directly affected by them not attending the Viking Cup?

"directly affected by them not attending the Viking Cup"?

Aren't we getting a little dramatic for a preseason high school tournament? In a month from now, are we really going to even care who won a preseason tournament?

It's time for March Madness. Does anyone remember (without looking it up) who won the preseason NIT? What about the Maui Invitational?

You're right we are getting a little dramatic. Who's going to remember who were the "B" bracket winners this past weekend in San Antonio in a few months. I can tell you the state champ in High school 4a last year was Wando and 3a was Riverside. But for the life of me I don't know what place my daughter finished in R3 Premier League the past 4 years.

W&L is also very strong in finance and marketing graduates. I have 2 cousins that played for what was Charlotte Blue then for the W&L women's team, and both went straight to 6 figure jobs after graduation. Fairly expensive school that, of course, offers NO athletic scholarships. Kind of like the Ivy League schools including... Yale.

Perspective, folks. Wow, this has gone on and on. My high school coach hates me now? I've let my team down? I have to make a life-changing choice? Just a little dose of perspective.

Let me start by saying that it's spring season, so I'm wearing my high school coach hat. (Actually, I'm wearing my NSCAA hat; picked it up at the convention in Baltimore and it's a nice blend of classic style and comfort--the basic black blends well with both high school and club colors, and it's hard to find a good, easily-shaped cotton material cap these days--but that's beside the point.)

The Viking Cup--the premier SC girls' tournament...great competition, good season preview, better than decent exposure.

And it's a preseason tournament. Period. The world did not end because any player or group of players decided to pursue a single opportunity to do something different for themselves on a somewhat bigger stage.

Perspective. The Viking Cup, while packed with prestige, will have little or no effect on any team's run for the playoffs or for a championship. A preseason tournament win or loss will only count on a team's record in case of a tie for region seeding--and, depending on the region's tiebreaking methods, is probably well down the list of tiebreaking opportunities. A typical region seeding method would be something like:

1. Overall region record.
2. If region records are identical, head to head competition between the tied teams.
3. If the teams split in head to head competition, then overall winning percentage EXCLUDING tournaments.
4. If records are STILL identical, overall record INCLUDING tournaments.

That's pretty far down on the depth chart.

"But it's THE VIKING CUP!"

Perspective. Fact is, a win or loss in the little tournament we used to attend in Goose Creek had the exact same effect on our record and playoff seeding as your win or loss at THE VIKING CUP.

Perspective. A win or loss in that random non-region game you scheduled with that school in the next town that you picked up on a whim because you needed to fill out your schedule, or because your buddy is coaching there, or your AD is friends with their AD, or they're in your school district so it's considered protocol to play them, will have MORE of an effect on your record for playoff seeding than your win or loss at THE VIKING CUP. Would there be all this hullaballoo if a couple of players went off to an
ECNL event on that night?

Perspective. How many teams have gone into a region match--with FAR more effect on region and playoff standings than any win or loss in THE VIKING CUP--missing key players for one reason or another? Would you make as much of an issue over a player missing a single region match as has been made over missing THE VIKING CUP?

Perspective. There's been a lot of bantering back and forth about exposure to college coaches--who's available at ECNL, who at VC. If that was really the issue--getting exposure for the players--wouldn't it be more of a player's choice issue? Why would a coach punish a player for getting exposure in one venue rather than getting exposure in another if that was the main focus?

Perspective. THE VIKING CUP is a prestigious event...but take a good hard look and make sure that the desire for prestige isn't blurring the focus on what's best, and reasonable, and healthy, and fair, and enjoyable, and beneficial for the players in the game--the ones who have to make the choices and live with them, the ones who have multiple obligations and sometimes have to choose among them--but also the ones who, if they think they let you down in one place in order to do something they found important, will come back and play their hearts out for you to make it up when it counts most--IF you don't break them down and hold a grudge against them for bruising your ego.

Perspective. Take a step back.

Coach, I agree. A little perspective would have been nice. I'm going to talk about one school in particular without mentioning any names, and look for the opportunities to use a little perspective.

The preseason tournament comes around and a usually strong hs team is missing a handful of premier players. The coach has a roster of 20 players, including some older players that have been on JV for a couple of years. Does the coach:

A) See the opportunity to get the older players that he himself has developed over the last few years some valuable playing time? (development does happen in hs right?)

B) Realize he won't have his strongest team available and use the weekend as a scouting venture while playing other good teams and watching a coastal rival that will have almost all of their better players?

C) Enjoy the weekend with the kids that are there after setting the tone in the weeks prior that this will be a memory for some of those kids that were going to sit on the bench for 90% of the season anyway.

D) None of the above, and instead give people the impression that the preseason trophy that is at stake is the biggest deal in the world and punish kids with unnecessary fitness in a season that will have them playing 25+ games in less than 3 months. By the way, on this note, I almost didn't mention that if this group had all their players they probably would have played 5 games in 3 days this past weekend (do your own research on what a good idea that is) and then scheduled a game for Monday night! It was a real competitive game that was great for player development, by the way, that was won 8-0. To my knowledge, not even the team that was 'forced' to play in 3 leagues at the same time ever came close to playing 6 games in 4 days. Yet somehow it's now perfectly fine to do that?

Or do the players/parents who have committed to the said high school (and agreed to it's rules) team choose to go to San Antonio and play as said in this forum, against the best competition, then come home and rejoin the said high school team and are and should be expected to play and train according to it's schedule?

When in fact if the Club had chosen the first 3 ECNL events to play in (which they could have), none of this thread would even exist.

But that will not happen because-
a) Club does not care at all about accommodating anyone other than itself and probably enjoyed causing all of this.
b) Parents like yourself would never question Club, because of your fear of them, even though you are their customer.

I liked this thread better when some illiterate soccer dad thought he could big time the master and then ended up looking like a tool.

Look, bottom line the ECNL had an effect on the Viking Cup. Another fact is that there are, obviously, people out there who could care less about the results of HS soccer and care only for the promotion of their daughter or son. PFFF, like that's anything new.

I just wish they didn't have to blog on the internet about how they think that is OK without regard for even the name of the forum they're posting in.

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I liked this thread better when some illiterate soccer dad thought he could big time the master and then ended up looking like a tool.

Look, bottom line the ECNL had an effect on the Viking Cup. Another fact is that there are, obviously, people out there who could care less about the results of HS soccer and care only for the promotion of their daughter or son. PFFF, like that's anything new.

I just wish they didn't have to blog on the internet about how they think that is OK without regard for even the name of the forum they're posting in.

Dont worry shut up. im still here. me and you can get it going again today. i like irritating someone who thinks the way you do. have to do it early. have stuff to do then going to a HS SOCCER GAME!

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Or do the players/parents who have committed to the said high school (and agreed to it's rules) team choose to go to San Antonio and play as said in this forum, against the best competition, then come home and rejoin the said high school team and are and should be expected to play and train according to it's schedule?

When in fact if the Club had chosen the first 3 ECNL events to play in (which they could have), none of this thread would even exist.

But that will not happen because-
a) Club does not care at all about accommodating anyone other than itself and probably enjoyed causing all of this.
b) Parents like yourself would never question Club, because of your fear of them, even though you are their customer.

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I liked this thread better when some illiterate soccer dad thought he could big time the master and then ended up looking like a tool.

Look, bottom line the ECNL had an effect on the Viking Cup. Another fact is that there are, obviously, people out there who could care less about the results of HS soccer and care only for the promotion of their daughter or son. PFFF, like that's anything new.

I just wish they didn't have to blog on the internet about how they think that is OK without regard for even the name of the forum they're posting in.

Where are you shut up? in class or doing the laundrey. am i going to have and send you a pm?

Working, trying to educate the ill-prepared. After reading your posts it only reinforces the fact that America still has a long way to go if we want to catch up with Estonia. There's no sense arguing with a brick wall, much less one built by an ignorant mason.

For more info on my facts check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

For what it's worth, my daughter plays high level club, odp, high school ball and is in the top ten in her class. Ever since she scored 20 goals in a mighty mite game when she was 5, we've been pushing and encouraging. The tons of money we've spent has been worth all the family vacations spent on her soccer development. Now, in her Jr. year, her priority this weekend was getting done with her VC games so she could get to her hostess job at the local restaurant. Having looked at the number of our young girls who do get money for college ball and then, 1 in 3 maybe 1 in 4 even play all four years, what is the priority? I see the merits of club and school, but the only people asking and demanding money at every turn are the clubs. My daughter has turned down 4 D-1 offers and will go to a top notch university to "just" be a student. And I applaud her.

Bless you both. At long last, sanity.

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Working, trying to educate the ill-prepared. After reading your posts it only reinforces the fact that America still has a long way to go if we want to catch up with Estonia. There's no sense arguing with a brick wall, much less one built by an ignorant mason.

For more info on my facts check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

you must not be teaching them too much by being on here so much during the day. you must be one of those over paid driver ed teachers that is regulated to asst coach.

because if you didn't understand/agree with their point of view they would of told you to take your kid and go play for carolina fc or something. that's what one of the doc's told me in a not so pleasant meeting one day at boland ct.

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Working, trying to educate the ill-prepared. After reading your posts it only reinforces the fact that America still has a long way to go if we want to catch up with Estonia. There's no sense arguing with a brick wall, much less one built by an ignorant mason.

For more info on my facts check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

you must not be teaching them too much by being on here so much during the day. you must be one of those over paid driver ed teachers that is regulated to asst coach.

Is that why he didn't teach you to spell "relegated"?

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Working, trying to educate the ill-prepared. After reading your posts it only reinforces the fact that America still has a long way to go if we want to catch up with Estonia. There's no sense arguing with a brick wall, much less one built by an ignorant mason.

For more info on my facts check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

you must not be teaching them too much by being on here so much during the day. you must be one of those over paid driver ed teachers that is regulated to asst coach.

If I were only so lucky to be 1. over-paid and 2. teach Driver's Ed. I look forward to that time. What do you do for a living? It's not conjugating sentences I hope.

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Working, trying to educate the ill-prepared. After reading your posts it only reinforces the fact that America still has a long way to go if we want to catch up with Estonia. There's no sense arguing with a brick wall, much less one built by an ignorant mason.

For more info on my facts check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

you must not be teaching them too much by being on here so much during the day. you must be one of those over paid driver ed teachers that is regulated to asst coach.

If I were only so lucky to be 1. over-paid and 2. teach Driver's Ed. I look forward to that time. What do you do for a living? It's not conjugating sentences I hope.

my job is to stay at home and irritate you.

Well, honestly, unemployed wouldn't surprise me.

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Well, honestly, unemployed wouldn't surprise me.

if that was the case then i couldnt pay all those club fees that you can not stand. i guess then i would be like you and only had hs soccer. nothing wrong with hs soccer. just so you dont read that into my post

I'm pretty sure that the hs in question made the players all sit down and write an essay stating what they were going to do regarding ECNL and Viking Cup back in November. So actually, the coach knew all along what the girls' committments were and then agreed to take them onto the team. So I guess it's not that big of a deal afterall.

Harry,
What school does your daughter attend, obviously not Mauldin. The girls were never asked to write an essay. They were asked which event they were going to attend, at which point, they were given a few days to discuss this with their parents. A few girls said the wanted to play in the VC. Unfortunately several girls quit a club team after the fall season and some Mauldin player's went to ECNL to support a depleted club team. I think that team only traveled to Texas with 13 players. I know another girl was asked by a college coach to attend the ECNL event and one other played in VC. As for fitness punishment, that is standard procedure at Mauldin for missing a practice or game for any reason. There is nothing wrong with a little extra fitness if you want to play soccer. That is pretty much the extent of it. Because the girls were "pre punished" all the ECNL girls started last night and we had a successful start to region play.

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Well, honestly, unemployed wouldn't surprise me.

if that was the case then i couldnt pay all those club fees that you can not stand. i guess then i would be like you and only had hs soccer. nothing wrong with hs soccer. just so you dont read that into my post

I'm involved in both club soccer and hs soccer and see the merit in both. Thanks.

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I'm involved in both club soccer and hs soccer and see the merit in both. Thanks.

And a couple State Championships
Doh!!!!

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The ridiculous view by parents that their child is more important than a team that they (supposedly) want to be a part of.

The decision to attend ECNL wasn't selfishness. They did choose to be part of a team. The difficult problem these girls faced was that they were on two teams.

To a person, I'll wager that every girls would have preferred to attend both events, but they had to pick one. You simply don't like one they selected.

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End of May conflicts with final exams.

Exactly. Events were selected from feedback from parents about trying to avoid conflicts with school and also to simplify travel.

The first 3 events could have been chosen, then no conflicts.

2010-11 ECNL SCHEDULE OF EVENTS:
ECNL Regular-Season Event #1 Aug. 27-29, 2010 Temecula, Calif.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #2 Dec. 3-5, 2010 Raleigh, N.C.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #3 Dec. 27-29, 2010 Sanford, Fla.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #4 March 4-6, 2011 San Antonio, Texas
ECNL Regular-Season Event #5 May 28-30, 2011 Zarephath, N.J.
ECNL National Championship July 14-16, 2011 TBD

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The ridiculous view by parents that their child is more important than a team that they (supposedly) want to be a part of.

The decision to attend ECNL wasn't selfishness. They did choose to be part of a team. The difficult problem these girls faced was that they were on two teams.

To a person, I'll wager that every girls would have preferred to attend both events, but they had to pick one. You simply don't like one they selected.

No, I simply don't like a parent who wants to debate that their view is right because they think HS soccer doesn't provide opportunities for their daughter specifically. The result is an elitist attitude that is a detriment to the HS game. If you believe this, fine. Don't post about it in the GIRLS HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER FORUM. Shut^&Play basically. People that think they're better than others simply because they PAY for club soccer expenses rub me the wrong way. I think that's pretty clear from all my posts in this regard.

The real issue regarding a pre-season tourney like the Viking Cup is not if you win it. It is to get your team ready for the season. It's for the players to bond, the new players to mesh and the team to play a lot of soccer to get them ready. Great play against good cross-state competition.

If 1-2, 3-5 or however many players are missing, you will not totally accomplish this.

You do not see High School AAU Basketball having a tourney at the start of HS Basketball season, nor do you have HS traveling baseball Clubs teams playing at the start of HS season, or swimming etc... only soccer.

As I have said before, High School only needs 4 months, if Club can't do theirs in 8 months, well this should be addressed. Club's cannot get enough of your time and your money.

JAK hit it on the head and Chass has the best overall view of this situation..My daughter has played club ball for ten years and while we are not part of the ECNL..she could have found herself in the same situation as those that chose the event..It's not the end of the world..Why not move on and let this thread die off...That's not a question..It's a request..

s&p - it really been you and HH that have gotten sideways on this topic. u 2 must have an issue with one another or had a previous run in. otherwise this tread has been ok.

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As I have said before, High School only needs 4 months, if Club can't do theirs in 8 months, well this should be addressed. Club's cannot get enough of your time and your money.

This statement continues the South Carolina-centric theme in this thread. High School soccer across the country involves 9 months not 4. Any inter-state club or other soccer program would interact with more than just 4 months of high school. Even our adjacent state, NC, has boys soccer in the fall and girls in the spring.

AAU and traveling baseball are also not good comparisons since, as far as I know, all states (or most at least) play those two sports in the winter (basketball) and spring (baseball).

Mavs, what? Some girls QUIT a Club team? You've got to be kidding???

What Club?

Why?

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The first 3 events could have been chosen, then no conflicts.

2010-11 ECNL SCHEDULE OF EVENTS:
ECNL Regular-Season Event #1 Aug. 27-29, 2010 Temecula, Calif.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #2 Dec. 3-5, 2010 Raleigh, N.C.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #3 Dec. 27-29, 2010 Sanford, Fla.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #4 March 4-6, 2011 San Antonio, Texas
ECNL Regular-Season Event #5 May 28-30, 2011 Zarephath, N.J.
ECNL National Championship July 14-16, 2011 TBD

Concerning the first event, maybe the parents feedback was...let's don't take the girls out of school two weeks after it gets started. Of course, the decision also could have been due to the less expensive flights to TX, or that San Antonio offers more to do off the fields, etc.

With as many ECNL events occurring basically year round, I do not see the merit of your argument.

Again, in this instance, it could have been avoided.

If players/parents are going to play HS and Club they should be considerate and professional enough to avoid conflicts.

i see HS coaches love having top talented players on their squads. its an extra bonus to have club players that play year-round soccer and r3pl/ecnl. they appreciate having players that are committed to soccer, improving their skills/fitness outside of HS ball. they know their star players will be committed to the team when region play and playoff come around.
HS coaches owe a lot to club ball and club players make many of HS coaches sucessful.

No doubt, the Club players are a benefit to the HS. This is not the argument. My daughters got great play during their Club years, but enjoyed every minute of HS play. They like us (parents) got sick of the Club politics.

Parents � support your players in whatever activity they love outside of academics and when/if they decide to stop, support them all the same. Complaining/whining doesn�t help and only makes them 2nd guess their commitment.

Pop,
If you have a problem with club ball..take it on the club side..Start a thread like..Club Politics..I am sure there will be many posts..
Letmeputittooyouthisway,
Excellent posts..

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With as many ECNL events occurring basically year round...

That is precisely my point. They will have conflicts no matter what months of the school year they have events. Saying there are only 4 months that they need to avoid or that they have 8 other months they can use is inaccurate.

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No doubt, the Club players are a benefit to the HS. This is not the argument. My daughters got great play during their Club years, but enjoyed every minute of HS play. They like us (parents) got sick of the Club politics.

My daughter loved playing both club and high school but got frustrated with the politics of BOTH.

Senior trips and proms and campus visits fall during soccer season..I wish the school administration could be more considerate..Spring break just messes everything up..

For the last time..32 teams in the VC..Last I heard there were only 13 that went to SA..Assumming all 13 are from SC..There were three or four schools that had 2,3 or more missing that were very competitive schools..What did this do?It evened out the play at the VC..I did not see any outlandish scores and it made the event more competitive for the other 27 schools that attended and provided play for players that otherwise would have had more bench time..
Conclusion? Congratulations again to Hilton Head..

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Senior trips and proms and campus visits fall during soccer season..I wish the school administration could be more considerate..Spring break just messes everything up..

this is exactly why I use a "black and white" rule. an absence is an absence no matter what (excluding illness or family emergencies and such). that way I don't have to be the judge of whose priorities are right.

it kinda sucks that kids are soooo stretched out these days. well, i guess it is cool that they have so many opportunities, but it makes it hard to do any one thing well when over-committed.

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this is exactly why I use a "black and white" rule.

Jonathan,

Never referee. We live in gray!

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Senior trips and proms and campus visits fall during soccer season..I wish the school administration could be more considerate..Spring break just messes everything up..

Yes, and in the Columbia area there are two different spring breaks. The Richland county school districts have spring break April 4-8 and the Lexington county school districts have spring break April 18-22. Shame on the school administration.

Life would be boring if everything were black and white.

WHY'S IT GOTTA BE BLACK AND WHITE?

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For the last time..32 teams in the VC..Last I heard there were only 13 that went to SA..Assumming all 13 are from SC..

I don't understand this statement. What 13 teams are you referring to that went to SA? Weren't there only 3 girls club teams from SC that went to the ECNL event in San Antonio? I know there were also some players missing from SC high school teams at the VC who were in San Antonio with their North Carolina club teams.

Actually I meant 13 players but that could be wrong..I was thinking of the 17 age group...not giving consideration to younger age groups..Still a small number compared to 32 teams

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The ridiculous view by parents that their child is more important than a team that they (supposedly) want to be a part of.

The decision to attend ECNL wasn't selfishness. They did choose to be part of a team. The difficult problem these girls faced was that they were on two teams.

To a person, I'll wager that every girls would have preferred to attend both events, but they had to pick one. You simply don't like one they selected.

No, I simply don't like a parent who wants to debate that their view is right because they think HS soccer doesn't provide opportunities for their daughter specifically. The result is an elitist attitude that is a detriment to the HS game. If you believe this, fine. Don't post about it in the GIRLS HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER FORUM. Shut^&Play basically. People that think they're better than others simply because they PAY for club soccer expenses rub me the wrong way. I think that's pretty clear from all my posts in this regard.

shut up you just like to read things into post for the sake of arguing. i feel so bad ( not really) that you think i am a detriment to hs soccer but when it comes to club, hs soccer comes in second. like it or not.the only thing rubbing you the wrong way is shut up & play if you get what i mean. someone told me they thought you were a teacher. it is hard for me to believe some classless a$$ like you is a teacher and that some school would hire you.

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s&p - it really been you and HH that have gotten sideways on this topic. u 2 must have an issue with one another or had a previous run in. otherwise this tread has been ok.

if you look back and read my post i just started out giving my opinionon on the subject. shut up is the one that decided to be a smart a$$. never met the guy or had a run in with him before. i would like to run into him but i bet he wouldnt sit down and talk face to face.

what got this thread going the wrong way was that a lot of people sat on the sidelines until now and just enjoyed watching two idiots go at it rather than giving their opinion. some didnt care, some didnt want to and im sure some were scared of getting bashed because their opinion may not be popular.im sure many on here dislike the idea of kids missing hs soccer for anything to do with club especially if it involves cesa. from the pm's i got there are many who feel the opposite. im not blaming any of you for me and nimrod going at it but if others would of given their opinion early on maybe it would not of went this far. on the other hand maybe it would of been worse.

OK Hard Headed my opinion is that shut^&play is a jerk for attacking you personally no room for that on scsoccer.

now cmon ilovethisgame you don't even have a kid who played high school soccer and only played club. so we know which way you're leaning. "Can't we all just get along", this verbal abuse get's me very upset.

I think you have to look at the situation from an ethical standpoint...what does the player have to gain/lose vs. what does each team have to gain/lose. In either choice, are we asking the player to sacrifice something that may have major long-term benefits for something that will have a comparitively smaller impact, long-term, on the team? Or is the player going to benefit little from the choice at great consequence to the team?

To me, it's hard to justify demandng that a player make a major personal sacrifice for something that will have a very minor impact on the overall success of the team. It's equally hard to justify allowing a player to make a choice that will create little long-term effect for himself/herself but have a major negative impact on the team.

Another question might be, will the momentary negative impact of a decision be outweighed by the long-term positive benefits the player can bring back to the team through such experiences?

Missing a tournament game to go to a concert, hit the beach, take a vacation, etc.--no way.

Miss a region match or playoff game (or even a non-region regular season match) to play for another team--terrible breach of commitment.

Weighing the team's benefit or loss in a preseason tournament vs. a player's opportunity to compete at a top level, increase chances of recruitment, and hone personal skills that they can then bring back to the team's table...now the ethics seem a little different.

Just one man's opinion...never was one for asking someone else to give up a lot more than what others had to gain from it.

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now cmon ilovethisgame you don't even have a kid who played high school soccer and only played club. so we know which way you're leaning. "Can't we all just get along", this verbal abuse get's me very upset.

Nice try gbdawgs my daughter plays HS soccer. I would love to tell u where but coach has a no posting policy.

Then why are you posting?

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Then why are you posting?

As long as my posts are generic I see little harm in doing so.

Cmon, you can open up to us. There's only one organization I know of that would call you in to shut you up.

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The first 3 events could have been chosen, then no conflicts.

2010-11 ECNL SCHEDULE OF EVENTS:
ECNL Regular-Season Event #1 Aug. 27-29, 2010 Temecula, Calif.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #2 Dec. 3-5, 2010 Raleigh, N.C.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #3 Dec. 27-29, 2010 Sanford, Fla.
ECNL Regular-Season Event #4 March 4-6, 2011 San Antonio, Texas
ECNL Regular-Season Event #5 May 28-30, 2011 Zarephath, N.J.
ECNL National Championship July 14-16, 2011 TBD

Concerning the first event, maybe the parents feedback was...let's don't take the girls out of school two weeks after it gets started. Of course, the decision also could have been due to the less expensive flights to TX, or that San Antonio offers more to do off the fields, etc.

Bingo! Simplier travel and not impact exams were a huge part of selecting the events. Impacting VC wasn't part of the decision.

That didn't stop them from going to the May event last year, but what they found was that the May event interferes with preparation for Southern Regionals a couple of weeks later, and 3 major travel expense trips in six weeks (NJ, LA, WA) resulted in too much backlash from the paying customers. Conflict with exams? Surely you jest.

These are about the dumbest posts i have ever read. The bottom line is all of the teams played and played well at the VC. One team won and the rest went home losers. Some players went to play on the national stage based on their abilities, but all of the players should be commended for their efforts and none of you has the right to pass judgment on any or the girls for your own selfish reasons regardless of where they played. These girls are all winners in my book,

Thanks for making my point.

You say "impacting VC not part of the decision".

Club has gotten so arrogant and has such control over many parents and players, it snubs it's nose at HS.

Perspective...and practicality...could a national league, scheduling a tournament for 110 teams from 32 clubs from multiple states all over the U.S., possibly take into account every "important" HS tournament in every state in their membership when scheduling an event?

Or does it seem just a little bit more "arrogant" to assume that everyone in a national league needs to schedule around OUR particular season, and OUR particular tournament that WE consider "elite" because it affects US?

I'm just sayin'. All I ask is that you take a serious look at what you're saying before you start the flaming. If what I said still seems ridiculous, then flame on. I'm a HS coach and I'm wearing my asbestos long johns.

Well said....COACH.

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...I'm wearing my asbestos long johns.

Don't you know that stuff causes lung cancer and other lung impairing conditions? (not to mention asbestos warts)

I thought it just gave you cooties? o.O

Chass,
you got cooties?

Sshhh...I've got them under control!

I hear they've got a vaccine for that.

I have a question for you coach. Why are not other HS sports
venues going through these scheduling conflicts. Just soccer. Do you think that it's because non interscholastic sport like soccer is a business first and they need to run year round to survive? Because non intersholastic teams like basketball, baseball, softball are not looking at the money,more about development. These non soccer athletes do play year round, but they play 8 months of club, and 4 months of high school. why is club soccer 12 months now.

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These non soccer athletes do play year round, but they play 8 months of club, and 4 months of high school. why is club soccer 12 months now.

LandRovers need gas year-round, not just during club season!

sd6 - by your posts you seem to have an issue with cesa or their docs. what the deal? we know of gbdawgs issues with cesa but not yours.

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I have a question for you coach. Why are not other HS sports
venues going through these scheduling conflicts. Just soccer. Do you think that it's because non interscholastic sport like soccer is a business first and they need to run year round to survive? Because non intersholastic teams like basketball, baseball, softball are not looking at the money,more about development. These non soccer athletes do play year round, but they play 8 months of club, and 4 months of high school. why is club soccer 12 months now.

I believe high school baseball, basketball, and softball each have the same season in all states, so AAU and travel team leagues/tournaments only have to avoid conflicts during a 4-month period. Since high school soccer is played in fall, winter, and spring seasons across the country, there are no months during the school year when conflicts can be avoided in all states.

That's part of it, for sure.

The other thing is the way soccer is done in this country. that is, pay to play, with high school programs virtually ignored from a serious recruiter's perspective.

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..why is club soccer 12 months now.

I have been involved with club soccer for 16 years and it has basically been a 9-12 month program since I've been in it. My daughters played for a local club's rec teams in fall and summer seasons up through U12. SCYSA has U13-U14 Select leagues in the spring as well as fall, and ODP in the Spring for all ages. A good many select teams begin practice in June or July for the seasonal year that runs August through July. Of course the regional and national tournaments are in the summer and, when my daughters played, the Super-Y League was in the summer.

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That's part of it, for sure.

The other thing is the way soccer is done in this country. that is, pay to play, with high school programs virtually ignored from a serious recruiter's perspective.

That's not just this country. In most countries, soccer clubs develop players who typically go pro after secondary school. School boy soccer is not taken very seriously in the UK, for example. Soccer is kind of caught in the middle here where players in most US sports (football, basketball, baseball, etc) are developed through the high school to college progression. In most of the world, a soccer player who waits until age 22 to turn pro is well behind the rest of her/his contempories.

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These non soccer athletes do play year round, but they play 8 months of club, and 4 months of high school. why is club soccer 12 months now.

LandRovers need gas year-round, not just during club season!

If you worry about what the guys at CESA drive you are very pathetic.

I think you're missing my point. If you take 2 athletes. both are high end athletes D1 recruits. One plays basketball and one plays soccer. Each play for their respective clubs and on their high school team. 100% of the time the club team is going to be much better than the high school team in both sports, that's a given. In Basketball and other youth sports they give the kids a break from the high pressures of club play for a few months, but in soccer they don't now. Are you telling me that a youth soccer player needs 12 months of highly competitive play and basketball only needs 8? That doesn't make sense. Also this past year with the start of the ECNL league is the only time my player had to play year round for the past 3 years in high school my daughter did not have a spring club schedule her freshman and sophmore years. Also as you see in another thread several states forbid playing non interscholastic play during high school season. Bottom line I think these clubs are burning these kids out, probably losing some very good soccer players in the process. I don't think it's just a local soccer club problem, I think it's now nationwide youth soccer problem with the birth of the ECNL.

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I think you're missing my point. If you take 2 athletes. both are high end athletes D1 recruits. One plays basketball and one plays soccer. Each play for their respective clubs and on their high school team. 100% of the time the club team is going to be much better than the high school team in both sports, that's a given. In Basketball and other youth sports they give the kids a break from the high pressures of club play for a few months, but in soccer they don't now. Are you telling me that a youth soccer player needs 12 months of highly competitive play and basketball only needs 8? That doesn't make sense. Also this past year with the start of the ECNL league is the only time my player had to play year round for the past 3 years in high school my daughter did not have a spring club schedule her freshman and sophmore years. Also as you see in another thread several states forbid playing non interscholastic play during high school season. Bottom line I think these clubs are burning these kids out, probably losing some very good soccer players in the process. I don't think it's just a local soccer club problem, I think it's now nationwide youth soccer problem with the birth of the ECNL.

Burn out really? How much practice do you think the average AAU/Club Basketball player puts in per week. I would reason to say two to three times the amount any female soccer player puts in. It is not uncommon for a basketball player to play from sun up to sun down. The elite players play/train every minute of every day. I have never heard the word burn out used in basketball over the amount of training a player puts in.

ilove you just proved my point . the aau player does practise more...BUT NOT DURING HIGH SCHOOL SEASON!Read the whole post!

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ilove you just proved my point . the aau player does practise more...BUT NOT DURING HIGH SCHOOL SEASON!Read the whole post!

Sorry your wrong. How often does your daughter and her teammates practice together after a HS soccer practice ? I will answer that for you, never. After a HS basketball practice what percentage of the players do you think hang around the gym or head home to work on what they just learned and continue playing after dinner(most likely with club or AAU teammates). I would bet a very high percentage. Overall an elite Basketball player plays and or trains 365 days a year without a break. Call it what you will but I never hear the word burnout in the same phrase as basketball.

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I think you're missing my point. If you take 2 athletes. both are high end athletes D1 recruits. One plays basketball and one plays soccer. Each play for their respective clubs and on their high school team. 100% of the time the club team is going to be much better than the high school team in both sports, that's a given. In Basketball and other youth sports they give the kids a break from the high pressures of club play for a few months, but in soccer they don't now. Are you telling me that a youth soccer player needs 12 months of highly competitive play and basketball only needs 8? That doesn't make sense. Also this past year with the start of the ECNL league is the only time my player had to play year round for the past 3 years in high school my daughter did not have a spring club schedule her freshman and sophmore years...

You are missing my point. The other sports are only able to give the 4-month break because it is the same 4 months in all states. That's not the case for soccer. Which 4 months do you propose to give the break? Fall, Winter, or Summer? Or are you going to try to get all 50 states to play high school soccer during the same 4 months each year? If so, good luck with that one.

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...Also as you see in another thread several states forbid playing non interscholastic play during high school season.

As was pointed out in the other thread: "been there, done that" in SC. The SCHSL rule against dual participation was struck down by the SC state legislature in 2001, 2002 or 2003 (not exactly sure which year).

no i get your point. but iloves original post was effect of ecnl on viking cup. this is the first year that ecnl has effected viking cup, ecnl is a club event. i'm saying why can't it go back to the way it was when high school players were not required to play club ball in the spring. make youth club soccer an 8 month venue in sc from june-december for high school players.

and in my opinion the the rule needs to be reversed. who do we write? State Congressman?

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Perspective...and practicality...could a national league, scheduling a tournament for 110 teams from 32 clubs from multiple states all over the U.S., possibly take into account every "important" HS tournament in every state in their membership when scheduling an event?

Or does it seem just a little bit more "arrogant" to assume that everyone in a national league needs to schedule around OUR particular season, and OUR particular tournament that WE consider "elite" because it affects US?

Of the 52 member clubs of ECNL only 29 (3 more than half) participated in the San Antonio event.
I agree that the organization cannot schedule events to avoid all conflicts with HS soccer especially conflicts with individual HS soccer events.

However, a quote for reference from a FAQ page posted earlier by ECNL at http://usclubsoccer-eliteclubs.d4sportsclub.com/PageCustom.aspx?id=62&o=340781 ...

"Can a player that participates in the ECNL also participate in high school soccer?
Yes. The ECNL schedules are created to insure that all players that participate in the ECNL also have the opportunity to play high school soccer. The ECNL is not prohibiting players from its member clubs from participating in high school soccer."

So, as the parent organization appears to support participation in HS soccer but can't avoid all individual club conflicts with those HS commitments of its players, I guess the organization leaves it to the individual club to avoid the local conflicts.

oh and by the way, i think hs soccer can deal with the same weather as hs baseball in all 50 states. so spring might be a good idea. Wow, that's what season sc is on now, but ecnl screwed things up by overlapping hs soccer in the spring.

So, really, the argument isn't that ECNL overlaps with SC spring soccer seasons...it's that the rest of the United States should march in line and play ALL high school soccer in the same exact season as South Carolina, despite field availability and differing climes, so that club seasons can thoughtfully schedule themselves around a single uniform high school season...as dictated by South Carolina.

Right.

I try to avoid sarcasm, but really...if that's not the definition of egocentrism, I don't know what is.

ak have you ever heard of little league baseball, aau baseball, softball. they all are outdoor sports and they do it.

DD,
Please explain how scheduling an event that conflicts with one high school preseason tournament equals not giving players "the opportunity to play high school soccer." Nothing in that statement guarantees or even suggests that players would be able to play every match of every season without conflicts or choices. It simply says they will not restrict players from participating on other teams by rule.

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ak have you ever heard of little league baseball, aau baseball, softball. they all are outdoor sports and they do it.

Have you ever heard of faulty analogies? As has been said many times already to apparently deaf ears...

Find me states that play baseball and softball in winter and fall seasons, and I will acknowledge the valid comparison.

Hard to schedule national events with no conflicts when soccer is played in three different seasons around the country.

So, it would go something like this?

Dear Congressman,

I know you have a lot on your plate, but I have a huge grudge with a soccer club that my daughter used to play for. This could all be fixed if you would pass a law regulating high school preseason tournaments and club soccer so that my daughter's high school team will have a better chance of winning said preseason tournament. Furthermore, I would like for you all in Congress to put a cap on all opportunities offered by any soccer club. My daughter used to want all of these opportunities and now she doesn't. Therefore, any such opportunities should not be offered to any other youth player whenever such opportunities should conflict with my daughter's high school team.

Sincerely,
SC Forum Poster

Is that about it?

How long is this post going to last??? The Viking Cup was a week ago. Games are done and the regular season has started. Can the focus change please?

Coach Chass, I agree with your point, but I'll post a more complete response after the game I have to get to.

Harry why do other states have the non intersholastic rules during prep season. You got my vote with the letter. I'll let you get back to your Club Kool Aide.

Do all those other states ban Sunday beer sales?

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Do all those other states ban Sunday beer sales?

When you buy in case qtys it don't matter...burp

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Coach Chass, I agree with your point, but I'll post a more complete response after the game I have to get to.

Hope the game went well...I think I see your point also. ECNL provides a number of choices of events and the local club that is aware of local conflicting issues decides which ones to attend, presumably choosing the ones that avoid interference with prominent high school competition.

Am I in the ball park?

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no i get your point. but iloves original post was effect of ecnl on viking cup. this is the first year that ecnl has effected viking cup, ecnl is a club event. i'm saying why can't it go back to the way it was when high school players were not required to play club ball in the spring. make youth club soccer an 8 month venue in sc from june-december for high school players.

and in my opinion the the rule needs to be reversed. who do we write? State Congressman?

So you are OK with ECNL conflicting with high school in over 30 other states, just don't interfere with high school soccer in such a large, important, highly populated state as South Carolina?

Leaving ECNL for a moment, SCYSA is the only USYSA state association in Region 3 who decides their state champions (representatives to the regionals) before Christmas. All of the others play their state cups in the spring. I took a team to regionals in 2008 and we didn't know the other teams from the other states in our age group until late May. And in at least five of those states high school soccer is played in the spring (Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Oklahoma, Tennessee). I'll bet they have some real conflicts between club and high school in those states.

I know SCYSA would love to see high soccer moved to the fall in SC so they could move their season to the spring. Then their state champions wouldn't be going to the regionals 6 months after completing their season and playing against other state champions who just finished theirs. But we all know that isn't going to happen because it would conflict with the king of sports in SC, gridiron football.

Homer have solution
Make HS soccer all year round!!!!!!
Doh!

I find this whole discussion amusing. If you look at the money spent for your child to play soccer at an elite level...if you just saved that money, you could pay for an entire college education. It costs thousands for really elite club teams where I live ($5,000+/year) and you have all the travel expenses and lack of time with your other children to factor in. If your child loves to play soccer, good, but understand that if you are looking for a college education out of it it is not worth the money layed out to get them to that level. I played soccer growing up, have a son that is getting to that age to play at a competitive level, and I am not sure I want to go that route. he could easily make any team around here, but I just don't think it is worth it to devote that much time to one sport and one of my three children. Just my opinion though....

it doesn't appear you've look at college cost recently. clemson/usc (in-state)cost $20k+ per year.

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it doesn't appear you've look at college cost recently. clemson/usc (in-state)cost $20k+ per year.

If you think that $20K a year is available for soccer scholarships....better think again.
If you�re concerned about money, best to have your student spend a few extra hours a day studying.
Scholastic scholarships are a lot more plentiful.

troll,

where in my post did i mention anything about soccer scholarships? i was responding to soccerboys post re- elite soccer cost and how it cost more than college.

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troll,

where in my post did i mention anything about soccer scholarships? i was responding to soccerboys post re- elite soccer cost and how it cost more than college.

I believe Soccerboy was making the point that �if you are looking for a college education out of it (ergo scholarship), it is not worth the money layed out to get them to that level�
You mentioned that it cost $20K+ per year to attend college. The only logical assumption from this is, �it might be worth spending thousands of dollars to an elite soccer club on the chance that your son/daughter will get a scholarship�.
My bad. This is what happens when I assume people are somewhat logical in their thinking process.
However, I do thank you for enlightening us with your vast knowledge of tuition costs at in-state schools.

you're welcome

I wouldn't trade the time I've been able to spend with my daughter thanks to the traveling for soccer for anything. It's been worth every penny getting that time with her, regardless of any scholarship opportunity.

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I wouldn't trade the time I've been able to spend with my daughter thanks to the traveling for soccer for anything. It's been worth every penny getting that time with her, regardless of any scholarship opportunity.

My exact sentiment.

I'm not talking about having just one kid. I have three kids, and I am not going to spend that much time with one child, and leave my other two out. They deserve the same time spent with each, not just a monopoly of one child. Trust me, this causes issues with your children, my wife sees that problem in school every day. To me it is not worth it to have one sport/one activity dominate my/my childs schedule so completely. Soccer is fun, don't get me wrong, but it is still a game. I am sure that if you have one child, it is worth it then to spend that much time with them.

As for the college thing...how many full ride scholorships do you think there actually are per school. Not as many as you would think. If you took that money that you spent for a high level club team and invested it every year, you would have a lot more money than you think you would. It usually costs 5K-10K to travel, pay for the club, vacation time away from your job, other fees, top level equipment, etc.... a year. If your child plays for 10 years, that is at least 50K-100K not including compounding interest or other investment opportunities. (if you do the math, even on the lower end, you can just about pay for college without the scholarship....and God forbid if your child actually studied and got good grades, they actually do get scholarship money for beign smart and providing something productive to society...rather than the typical all about me generation) I always think it is funny how many people think that their child is the next best thing. I can for a fact tell you that most people's children are not that. You can tell the players that are special out there, especially when I am refereeing an academy game....there are only a handful of players on each team that reach this pinnical. I beleive that there are only 8 Full ride scholarships per Division 1 NCAA soccer team. How many schools are there per state, and do you really think your child is going to fall into this category? Just don't go into soccer thinking that your son/daughter is going to get a full ride scholarship to attend college, your money would be better spent elsewhere.

I want to know how you have a daughter at Northwestern when she is supposed to be at Rock Hill High???? Just curious.

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I have three kids, and I am not going to spend that much time with one child, and leave my other two out.

It usually costs 5K-10K to travel, pay for the club, vacation time away from your job, other fees, top level equipment, etc.... a year.

So, did you just say in one sentence that you would never have a child play at the level we're talking about; and then tell us how much it costs to do so? Where did you get these figures? I'm almost done with a year of Premier League and ECNL including club fees and travel. Maybe I need to check my math, but I'm not close to 5K.

HARRY, Check your math.
Dues,training fees,uniforms,boots,plane tickets,hotels,food,odp,camps,gas,etc..Traveling with your child to each event, taking off from work 15-20 days maybe $10,000 is on the low side.

I've edited this post as I thought twice about putting the specifics out there. For those of you who missed it, I detailed this year for my family and came in well under $5k. It wasn't even close.

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HARRY, Check your math.
Dues,training fees,uniforms,boots,plane tickets,hotels,food,odp,camps,gas,etc..Traveling with your child to each event, taking off from work 15-20 days maybe $10,000 is on the low side.

I still can't help myself with this though. 15-20 days missed work? Where on Earth do you get that? Does that factor into your $10k? I've opted to miss 2 days this year. They were paid.

This just makes you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about when you make statements regarding playing in Region III and ECNL and what it actually costs.

You're also assuming everyone plays ODP. You're assuming that when a player flies (twice a year) that parents HAVE to fly too.

Trust me. Nowhere near $5k. Not even 4.

I'd be curious to see what a non-CESA person thinks dues/training fees are. Have you done the research? Or have you just drawn a number out of the air, or heard one of the haters say 'thousands of dollars'?

I just rechecked mine:

2 weeks of camp $675.00, $560.00
ODP training and camp $400.00
Mine happens to like those fancy boots 3@ 299.00
Plane tickets 3 events X 2 people $2,580.00
Days off from work for ODP,Regionals,ECNL.Premier League driving to camps.. N/C
Uniform ? again, mine wanted the fancy warm-up.
Nights in hotels ? lost count
Since you brought up CFO mine allows me to charge .55 per mile, just saying.
My point is club soccer at the highest level is expensive. And yes in my opinion worth every penny I have ever spent. Did I forget to throw in the extra $3,000.00 each year for the Disney trip.

The reason that I know how much it costs is because I referee at a high level. I chat with the parents and coaches, and it has come up how much it costs to play at a high level. I referee the regional ODP camps, academy games, state cup games, some college games, high school, etc....I talk to a lot of people that have kids playing at these different levels, and it flat out costs a lot of money.

You can get away with $4,000 or less a year playing for a very good team, but not a top tier team. There is no way that I can see that happening. Your cost of living might be cheaper in SC, than where I live too, so that could play into things also.

Chicago Fire Academy is over 6K a year for training and tournaments....not including travel, uniforms, etc...

Chicago Soccers Academy is a little less coming in about 5K not including travel, uniforms etc....

Local clubs here that are ok....they cost about 2K-3K a year not including travel and tournaments...but they are only ok.

It is not like i am pulling these numbers from my backside.....these are real numbers. I just find it amazing that people drop this much money on this. I make plenty of money, but don't wish to spend 3-4% of my income on soccer for one child. If that is what you want to do, feel free to drive the economy.

Again, I'll say to do the research here. Call CESA and ask what the club dues are. Then as the follow up: what other fees are involved. "Local clubs here that are ok....they cost about 2K-3K a year not including travel and tournaments" is just misleading and if you're talking about CESA (which in my opinion is more than ok) it's just plain inaccurate.

I actually appreciate the one person on here who private messaged me and said 'this is how much it cost me'. What I'll never understand is how people on here say they 'know how much it costs' yet they're not the one paying the money. You know because you're a referee and you talk to people? Come on! Therefore, you're in a position to tell me how much I've paid and how much I haven't? The parent you talked to after a match knows more about my bank account than I do? Wow!

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I just find it amazing that people drop this much money on this. I make plenty of money, but don't wish to spend 3-4% of my income on soccer for one child. If that is what you want to do, feel free to drive the economy.

Ah, but when I see the enjoyment my child gets from playing soccer...3-5% of my income is a great investment. Maybe keeping her involved in soccer at this level (Club & HS) keeps her away from some of the trouble that other kids seem to get caught up in. Again, our family believes the investment is more than worth the return.

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Again, I'll say to do the research here. Call CESA and ask what the club dues are. Then as the follow up: what other fees are involved. "Local clubs here that are ok....they cost about 2K-3K a year not including travel and tournaments" is just misleading and if you're talking about CESA (which in my opinion is more than ok) it's just plain inaccurate.

http://www.carolinaelitesc.com/docs/sele...July%202009.pdf

HOW LONG IS THIS THREAD?

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HOW LONG IS THIS THREAD?

Currently 20 pages.

Oops. I think I just started the 21st page.

Way to take it to the next level, Coach P!

harry, I don't know how much you have spent, and never claimed to. Once again, I said I don't live in South Carolina, hence my comment about cost of living being cheaper there. I asked specific people how much they spent on thier club teams to determine if I was going to have my son play in them or not. They were very candid with how much it cost. This was from direct conversations with the coaches, developmental staff, and parents. I think specific parents that told me what the exact costs of the clubs were, their travel costs, and other expenses are pretty good sources to use in determining if I want to expend that much money. I fail to see how I did not cover my bases with seeing how much this costs to do. It is not like a pulled a number from my backside to say it costs this much. I know how much it cost specific parents with specific clubs, and what the training/coaching fees are. I would say that that is pretty specific. I don't know why you are so combatitive, I was only providing facts and figures from my experience. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.

I know that for a number of schools, the ECNL schedule caused a variety of different kinds of conflicts this year during the Viking Cup. I don't know if this will be helpful or not, but the SCHSL does have an unofficial calendar ready for next year. If there are no changes when the official version is posted in a few weeks, it looks like the dates for Viking Cup will be March 1-4, 2012. The League tells me they anticipate no changes before they post the calendar for next year.

I hope this info might be helpful to you in dealing with your local clubs.

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I know that for a number of schools, the ECNL schedule caused a variety of different kinds of conflicts this year during the Viking Cup. I don't know if this will be helpful or not, but the SCHSL does have an unofficial calendar ready for next year. If there are no changes when the official version is posted in a few weeks, it looks like the dates for Viking Cup will be March 1-4, 2012. The League tells me they anticipate no changes before they post the calendar for next year.

I hope this info might be helpful to you in dealing with your local clubs.

should have kept it a secret. now ECNL will know.

The viking cup is a great tournament that the players look forward too. I suggest the tournament directors take a look at the ECNL schedule when it comes out. Hate to see some high schools back out if they will be missing players. Why invest the money. Caught some coaches off guard this year and may re-think the tournament. Who knows

Aaaand...here we go again.

This is for everyone here and not only for the person I responded too.

You folks use figures that are way low if you have a serious player.

Our experience: My daughter started playing travel at U8 in Michigan. She played there through U11 and considering all fees, travel, wear and tear on the car/SUV, lost vacation, etc I budgeted $10,000 per year and easily spent all of that each year. U11 I spent almost $13,000. Moved to Nevada and had the benefit of a lot of tournaments in town. Still, out west every trip is a plane ride. Playing at the top level with ODP, training, club fees, auto, etc and it was still $10,000 year for U12 and $12,400 for U13. Moved to Charlotte area/ live in SC at U14 and spent $8,600. Played ECNL in U15 and spent $14,200. Disney is at least $3000 for no other reason than you have to take everybody in the house. Skipped U16 age group and played her grade with U17 and spent $11,400 so far this year. You guys need to remember that driving 1000 miles at .52 a mile adds up real quickly. Drive 10,000 miles and that is $5200 right there. Some people play games with this but I have done the math on numerous cars we have owned and it is a very good number. But when you trade in or sell the the $30,000 car with 100,000 miles on it that is 4 years old for $3,000, that is what $6700 year?

I also pay for High School with property taxes, vehicle taxes, and sales taxes to the tune of approximately $5500 per year. All four colleges that my daughter wants to attend are at the ECNL/showcase event, and none at a preseason HS event. Pretty easy to figure out which one to go to, because you pay to go to ECNL/showcase events whether you go and play or stay home. I realize that many of you are very attached to HS sports, but the reality is for the level of player we are talking about is HS has nothing to offer the top players but fun and hopefully an injury free season. What you want is the bragging rights of a victory for your own purposes at the expense of what is best for the player with 10 years of hard work. For HS coaches to punish kids for making this decision is the dumbest most selfish idiotic thing I have ever heard of.

ECNL is expanding and the clubs are going to keep the teams so busy that the players discussed here will not have the choice much to play both, and it will be the HS teams that will lose this level of player. So this issue will be solved for you in the near future.

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I also pay for High School with property taxes, vehicle taxes, and sales taxes to the tune of approximately $5500 per year. All four colleges that my daughter wants to attend are at the ECNL/showcase event, and none at a preseason HS event. Pretty easy to figure out which one to go to, because you pay to go to ECNL/showcase events whether you go and play or stay home. I realize that many of you are very attached to HS sports, but the reality is for the level of player we are talking about is HS has nothing to offer the top players but fun and hopefully an injury free season. What you want is the bragging rights of a victory for your own purposes at the expense of what is best for the player with 10 years of hard work. For HS coaches to punish kids for making this decision is the dumbest most selfish idiotic thing I have ever heard of.

ECNL is expanding and the clubs are going to keep the teams so busy that the players discussed here will not have the choice much to play both, and it will be the HS teams that will lose this level of player. So this issue will be solved for you in the near future.

I saw in another thread that someone couldn't believe I hadn't responded in a few days. I'm sorry, but I do have to work sometimes too.

Titan brings up two points here that I agree with. (I'm done talking money. Everybody has their own figure. I got upset at someone for telling me how much I spent. Who am I to tell anyone else?)

The first point being that schools may lose some of these players to club and ECNL. I'm not sure what all the scores were at Viking Cup, but they looked fairly close without the ECNL players involved. With everyone playing thier full rosters, I've seen scores in week 2 and 3 that were: 6-0 (5 times) 7-1, 7-0 (4 times), 8-1, 8-0, 9-0 (3 times), 10-1, 10-0, 11-1, 11-0 (twice) 12-0 and 14-0. These are not the games that the top level players should be in. Furthermore, I saw names on the Viking Cup All Tournament teams that may not have been there if other players were there. Please don't get me wrong, they are all good players. (at least the ones I know) The fact is that there are seniors on the All Tournament team that may or may not have been there if the 45 girls that went to San Antonio were in the tournament. I'll bet those kids deserved to be on the list and I'll bet they were happy to be there. I'll bet there were at least 2-3 kids who were not in the starting line-up before VC, but used that weekend to earn a spot. The point being, maybe there are benifits of the highest level player not playing high school.

The other point Titan brings up is that the punishment that has gone on in the last few weeks is exactly as Titan described it above: dumb, selfish and idiotic. In a season where players are going to play 30 games (give or take) in less than 3 months, to make a kid do extra fitness as punishment for honoring a commitment she made months before joining her hs team is absolutely ridiculous. To tell kids they are suspended for a full game, then go back on your word because you are losing at halftime is completely self-centered and sends a horrible message to the rest of the team. To play a game on Friday, then Monday, then Wednesday, then have your players run for punishment after losing at another school's field, then play on Thursday shows that you have anything but the players' best interests at heart.

I would like to state for the record that I know of some coaches in the high school ranks that have handled all of this with the players' best interest in mind. I have no problem with the coach setting rules and sticking by them. But the rules have to make sense.

No disrespect titan and harry, we relocated from Colorado to SC and the financial's you shared, we've lived. My 11th grade daughter has done it all: club, odp, high school, D1 offers. My 8th grade daughter has started down that road and is a BETTER player than her sister and will be running cross country in the fall, rather than playing club soccer. She plans to play soccer for her high school in the spring.

Ok, best of luck to her. I think the point of my last post would be two-fold. 1) IF she decided she wanted to be the best soccer player should could possibly be, then playing in games that are 11-0 may not be the best thing for her. 2) If she chooses to run in the Boston Marathon and happens to miss a school cross-country meet, I would think it would be ridiculous for her school coach to punish her for it.

The point is harry, she has a better chance of getting a D1 scholarship for running a sub 20 5k, which most top club soccer players can run, than a D1 soccer scholarship, for maybe 2k in costs of good running shoes, rather than 20k over the next 4 years in club soccer fees. Without all the club headaches and drama.

is there any way to block a thread?

So Harry, what you said was if a soccer player wants to be the best soccer player they can be, it may not be playing in 11-0 HS games. But in one of your previous posts you said your daughter plays high school soccer. Do you not want her to be one of the best soccer players she can be? Why is your daughter wasting her time playing in 11-0 HS soccer games?

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The point is harry, she has a better chance of getting a D1 scholarship for running a sub 20 5k, which most top club soccer players can run, than a D1 soccer scholarship, for maybe 2k in costs of good running shoes, rather than 20k over the next 4 years in club soccer fees. Without all the club headaches and drama.

19 and change in the 5K gets you a D1 scholarship? Way too easy. I think we should all "challenge" our daughters to do it the hard way......through soccer!

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The point is harry, she has a better chance of getting a D1 scholarship for running a sub 20 5k, which most top club soccer players can run, than a D1 soccer scholarship, for maybe 2k in costs of good running shoes, rather than 20k over the next 4 years in club soccer fees. Without all the club headaches and drama.

Right. And I have no problem with that at all. The only problem is, what if the goal is not to get a scholarship? What if getting a scholarship is something that happens on the way to acheiving your goal? What if playing the sport you love, as much as you can play it, at the highest level you can play it, in the best environment you can find is the goal? If that were the case, then the 'easiest' way to get a D1 scholarship may be irrelevant.

If your daughter loves to run, great. I say let her run as much as she can wherever and whenever she wants. If she gets a scholarship, even better. If my kid wants to play soccer, I'll support her playing as much as she can against the best teams we can put in front of her.

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So Harry, what you said was if a soccer player wants to be the best soccer player they can be, it may not be playing in 11-0 HS games. But in one of your previous posts you said your daughter plays high school soccer. Do you not want her to be one of the best soccer players she can be? Why is your daughter wasting her time playing in 11-0 HS soccer games?

I think that what a parent wants is secondary to what a player wants when it comes to the child playing a sport. Parents can mandate attitudes towards sportsmanship. They can enforce guidelins regarding behavior and grades etc. If all of those are satisfied, and the kid says 'I want to play club and high school' then the rest of us shouldn't get in the way and should be supportive. I think it's clear what my opinion is as to what a player's best use of time is. But never have I said that I would or should forbid the choice.

So, yes. I would want her to be the best she could be. And, she is wasting her time when she wins a game 11-0 because I won't forbid it. I would hope that she will listen to reason and figure it out, but those things seem to take time.

Love you Hurst! Like to see you run a sub 30 5k! Harry, I'm with you dude. However, there are some, (many), on the club side who are driven by dollars and not my daughters best interest. That's what I resent. I know what the high school coach makes and I work in the concession stand every 3 weeks and buy my daughter's unsold candy bars.

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The point is harry, she has a better chance of getting a D1 scholarship for running a sub 20 5k, which most top club soccer players can run, than a D1 soccer scholarship, for maybe 2k in costs of good running shoes, rather than 20k over the next 4 years in club soccer fees. Without all the club headaches and drama.

19 and change in the 5K gets you a D1 scholarship? Way too easy. I think we should all "challenge" our daughters to do it the hard way......through soccer!

There is a man who used to be a friend of mine. I don't talk to him much anymore, but he is a great fisherman. What if his daughter went fishing with him and decided she loved it? What if he spent 30k on a bigger better boat? What if every weekend they got up early in the morning to drive a few hours to the best lake? What if they bought bait every weekend and new rods every couple months? What if a few times per year, they went on 3-4 day fishing trips and stayed in hotels because it was just better fishing in Minnesota or somewhere like that?

Would we tell that man that he has wasted his money because she didn't get a fishing scholarship? Would we tell her she should take up rowing because you can get a rowing scholarship much easier? Would we criticize that man for supporting the activity that his daughter loved to the best of his ability? I guess some of us would wouldn't we?

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Love you Hurst! Like to see you run a sub 30 5k!

cat,
I'm at about 32 minutes right now, give me a few weeks of training now that the weather has improved. Can we do it for charity? Make sure the course isn't real hilly.

Where at in Colorado are you from if I might ask? I spent 4 years going to school in Colorado Springs. Have tried to get back there to live but work never sent me that way. Now that i am retired, We are counting the days to go back west once my daughter graduates HS.

One important point is that kids need to do what fits in their goals. I have been fortunate enough to have the money to pay for the soccer over the years and to have a daughter that is dedicated and focused. She went the other route this year and continued to play club but said no to HS. This was based on her goals and here academic/classroom work was more important than HS soccer. She wants to go to school where I did, but soccer doesn't have the pull that College football does in helping with admissions, so with only a limited amount of time in the day kids have to make choices.

What smells about this whole argument is that kids with superior talent and abilities are being put down and punished by the very coaches/teams that need their services. These kids don't need to play HS soccer, and if this crap keeps up all of these kids will be gone and then where will the HS teams be. Like I said, ECNL is going to make the decision for their player to not play HS in the next couple of years, either by contract or by schedule.

Hurst, I will be happy to drive the chase golf cart to spur you on, and pick up the pieces if necessary

titan,

If it's a hot day, make sure you have a couple cans of Diet Pepsi in the cooler in the cart.

I guess I don�t spend nearly enough time reading the Girls High School Soccer threads � this has been most entertaining! And, to see harry back on his heels, it�s almost too much for me to handle. But, alas, I feel for the lad. While he has gone off on many tangents that have little to do with any of it, I believe his main point has merit. Harry is one of the best at stirring up crap (as he attempted to do just last week on another one of the boards) but many of his comments have been taken way out of context � even I can tell that he�s really not saying some of the moronic things a few of you are suggesting.

These players made a commitment to one team (club) and played with them, then joined another team (high school) when time came for that season to begin. As long as the second team�s coach and players (parents not required) are aware of the commitments made to the first team, and accept the players onto their team, there should not be any issues.

The players did not cause any of this. They just want to play soccer. I�m sure if they had their preference, there would be no conflicts. The ECNL was created to provide another level of competition for girls. I�m sure if they also had their preference, there would be no conflicts. But this is life and sometimes things just don�t work out perfectly.

When conflict does occur, though, there are numerous people who can either help the situation or hurt it. Some of the coaches have decided to make it more difficult than need be. Obviously, there are also some parents on this board who choose to view it in a negative light (sadly, many of them are vocal in front of their children, which probably does not help on the field, either).

I think the most appropriate comment made here by harry was �I have no problem with the coach setting rules and sticking by them. But the rules have to make sense. � Why is it that some of the high school coaches were fine with all this, but others had major heartburn?

As usual, Coach Chass seems to make the most sense of it all � perspective...and practicality (I like to call it reality)

But, I would like to know which colleges offer fishing scholarships�

The timing/commitment issue is ridiculous. So, now that High School is playing and the players have made a commitment to it, does it carry over through the summer?

So if it does, if High School has an event, say occurring when Regional's occur, the players on the High School teams whose Club teams are going to Regionals could not go?

And regarding rules, any rules a Club coach has regarding his/her team, they must not apply either???

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The timing/commitment issue is ridiculous. So, now that High School is playing and the players have made a commitment to it, does it carry over through the summer?

So if it does, if High School has an event, say occurring when Regional's occur, the players on the High School teams whose Club teams are going to Regionals could not go?

And regarding rules, any rules a Club coach has regarding his/her team, they must not apply either???

Which came first-the chicken or the egg

When does the Club season begin and end?

You go through your season, begin and end State Cup playoffs.

That used to be when it ended. Then, maybe a tournament in summer if you chose to participate or ODP is you chose to do that. Tryouts in May for the next season.

Of course now ECNL, basically year round.

But there are plenty of ECNL events year round that should allow conflicts to be minimal.

Looks like this thread will never end...