First congratulations to Lexington. My daughter played for Mann. If any of you saw this game, i would love to hear you opinions. The first thing that I would love toy see is the stats. I think that Mann was called for at least twice as many fouls. The number of times our girls stole the ball and started to dribble and was grabbed or held was crazy. He never called it on Lexington. If someone has the stats please post them. Then the last play of the game was ridiculous. Lexington shot and it hit the crossbar, bounced straight down and didn't go in. The AR, who was standing on the line, called no goal. The center ref came running over from midfield and said that it was a goal. The AR with my daughter standing beside him, told the ref again that it never went into the net. Didn't matter. Game over. I would like to know how and why would the refs have predetermined winners in their mind before the game starts. It could have been Mann or Lexington, but let it be fair. Today, Mann was beaten by the refs. One of them tried to do the right thing and he was over ruled by the center ref. He shouldn't be allowed to ever ref again. The good thing is, that I spoke with a Channel 4 film crew who has it on film. He was telling our parents how bad it was to get beaten that way. He saw it. I'm sure that Lexington would rather win it straight out instead of on a controversial call such as this. I hope they run it on the late news, because he has the footage showing that it wasn't a goal. Why would he not listen to his sideline AR and make the call from midfield when clearly he had no knowledge of if it was goal or not. I'm glad that it was our last game. SC don't have a good reputation anyway and refs like this is why. SC soccer officials were there too, they should have fixed the situation.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/high-school/article77695302.html

Couldn't tell from the angle I was sitting at if the final goal was a goal or not, but your assessment of the ref was wrong. If you look at the video clip above, the AR starting running towards the midfield, that was his signal to the center ref that the shot was a goal. Only then did the center ref call it a goal.

Long time no post...

There is a video here
http://www.thestate.com/sports/high-school/article77698387.html

Article also disputes what your coach said-
"A South Carolina High School League official spoke to the linesman afterward and was told he told the head referee that it was a good goal, that the ball landed past the black line and on the white paint inside the net."

To me the physics of how it travelled suggest that it was a goal.
After hitting the top post the only way for it to NOT be a goal is for it to go straight down hit the line and bounce out.

To me from poor quality video it looked like it hit the post and bounced down and back a bit before hitting the ground and bouncing back out.

Plus the chance of the ball hitting the post and coming STRAIGHT down without crossing the line is pretty slim.

And let's be honest even after watching it on video in slow motion it is hard to tell if it was a wasn't a goal so I don't think beating up on the ref in this situation is fair.


As for rest of game, can't say. But I remember going to Mann a few years ago and having a very one sided game called against our team. Of course the Mann parents at the time would say it was a perfectly called game. Maybe someone can post whole game and you can find bad calls and point them out.

I was not at the game and I don't have a dog in the fight. But after reading about the ending, I saw a picture on Lexington's twitter feed of the ball clearly over the black line in the white. Rubber bouncing up with space between that and the goal line.

Here is the photo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CidRTBfXAAA1_CH.jpg

AR makes immediate goal call. Officiating was good, except for calling Lexington offside when a Mann player played it back. Ironically, the same AR called it, but center should have seen it and ignored his flag. It's a bad beat, Mann should have ended it in regulation, but they let a team that defended with six beat them. Lexington not smart enough to ask for ten as Mann stood five yards on almost every free kick. Both teams run away too much.

This is the goal that the decided the Girls 4A SC State Championships. We should be embarrassed for having such lazy refs decide our kids games. Clearly not a goal. If they don't show you the still shot on TV, I'll send it to you or you can find it on #lexingtonsoccer twitter.

Your wrong. We heard the AR stating it wasn't a goal. He told the news it wasn't a goal. You can see that it wasn't a goal. I'd love to see the stats.

Congratulations to Lexington.

Mann....tough loss.

In all my years of watching soccer (and there are many) and watching dozens of high school soccer state championships, I have never seen such a debacle as the SC 4A championship between Lexington and Mann. This officiating crew should be banned for life from the pitch. It was by far one of the worst jobs ever done by a crew that I have ever witnessed. Clearly the fiasco at the end of the game with the goal called in golden goal overtime where the AR visibly, demonstratively, and verbally indicated it was not a goal is what everyone will be talking about; however, this crew was simply awful the entirety of the match.

There was the non-PK call at the 7 minute mark of the first overtime period where a defensive player restrained an offensive player in the box by grabbing her shoulder with a hand full of jersey and pulled her back so the keeper could corral the ball (watch the tape…it is very clear). There was no doubt this was a PK in real-time yet the center swallowed his whistle like nothing happened. There were the two botched calls in the 2nd half on Mann #15 who should have received a second yellow and forced Mann to play down a man; but again, the center cowered at making the right call. That of course assumes that the first yellow he showed was correct…that would be a wrong assumption. Then of course he was more than willing to whip out another yellow card for unsporting behavior for sending the ball away after a foul. I have a real problem with referees who are fast to throw soft yellows for minor infractions or during stoppages in play yet refuse to make the right decision on plays that can get someone hurt. Let’s talk about the dozen or so handballs that were never called. How a qualified referee can miss that many simple calls like that is unbelievable. Ironically however, one of the ARs must have x-ray vision because he called a handball on a ball that was chested and all he could see was the player’s back. Then there is the AR calling for an offside free kick when it was a goal kick. He didn’t even know what was going on in the game. How about the handling offense on the Lexington keeper in the 1st half that was not called just outside the six…clearly that was a Lexington defender trying to shoot on her own goal and not making an intentional pass back. Are you kidding me? Then there are the offside calls when a “defensive player” plays the ball back. How’s that? Is there a new offside law?

That takes us to all the fouls that were called, I disagreed with about 80% of those called (way too many of those were very soft touch fouls); and, all the fouls that were not called that should have been called, with which I disagreed 100%. Call the fouls consistently please. It was such a pitiful display of incompetence that was so totally random and inconsistent that it is extremely hard to believe that this guy actually passed the certification test let alone was chosen to do a championship match. I would also love to see the foul stats on this match as they had to be outlandishly one-sided against one team.

Finally, that brings us to the mayhem in the final minute of the first golden goal overtime. The shot is taken, hits the bar, bounces down off the line, and out into the field of play. The AR does not indicate goal, he simply begins to follow the ball back up the field. The Lexington players do not complain. Suddenly the center stops the match and calls goal. Chaos erupts from both teams and fans. The center goes over to the AR who verbally and demonstratively indicates that it is not a goal, which was witnessed and overheard by a multitude of players, coaches, and spectators. The Mann players and bench celebrate the “no-goal” they believe is about to be called when suddenly the Center for no known reason indicates “Goal.” What a complete abuse of power. The center was in no position to make that call. He must defer to AR on the line. To overrule the AR in that situation is ludicrous from an officiating standpoint. And, as has been shown in the many pictures floating around on the web already, the entire ball was NOT over the goal line. The picture floating around that shows it best shows the ball kicking up black crumb from the white football line just behind the goal line. While the center of the ball did land behind the line, the laws of physics with the angle of attack of the ball coming down preclude the entire ball from having crossed the line. It was not surprising when this crew immediately made way for the clubhouse and left chaos reigning still out on the pitch. Now there are stories that the AR is changing his story to the state officials and saying that he did tell the Center it was a good goal. The many witnesses and the reaction of the Mann team clearly refute that. Now it’s merely a cover-up to try and save face for this entire crew and the state association.

In soccer, many times players and/or coaches will complain that a referee cost them a game, which is simply not true…they just had a bad game but it impacted both teams. In this case however, one referee had an absolutely abysmal game and not only did it cost one team a game, it cost them a championship.

Bottom-line is this…whatever happened on that pitch tonight was awful and there needs to be some real inquiry as to what truly went on with this referee and this crew at this championship match. It is unacceptable!

Guys... the picture is RIGHT there.

That white line in the photo is NOT the goal line, it is the out of bounds line for the Football field and is a good 2-3 wide.

The goal line is a small thin black line that you see across the front of the white line.
But don't take my word, here is another photo of the Irmo stadium and you can CLEARLY see the black goal line and the larger white out of bounds line.

That was a goal.

Another angle just for fun.



And the goal shot so you can see that the ball hit the white line and the ball can't hit the white line without crossing the black goal line.


So no matter what the ref said or didn't say it was a goal.

This picture creates another issue. The back of the goal post is not aligned with the back of the black line. The goal post is clearly 2-3" maybe even more behind the black line. This should have been checked by the referee crew before play was allowed to start. The AR uses the post when looking down the goal line to determine goal or no-goal.

I've no doc in this fight but was following the game on Twitter.......saw the video & if it wasn't a goal & the AR had ruled, during the game of play, that it was not a goal, then why did he start running to midfield as if it was a goal? If he initially believed it wasn't a goal then he should have kept in line with the last defender when she cleared the ball

Plus, that picture is all you need to see the ball clearly crossed the line. If y'all do wanna blame someone though, blame the Rawlings ball. It's all Rawlings' fault

Are you kidding me? The ball can absolutely hit the white line and not be a goal. The entire ball must be over the goal line, or as we now know behind the goalsposts which were set behind the black line.

The AR responsibility in a situation like this where the goal is questionable and the ball remains live in play is to immediately raise his flag. He did not do so and therefore there is no presumed indication of goal.

Really bad sportsmanship by the Mann coach on this video.

Complaining about the call while Lexington is getting their medals.
Should have waited till after the ceremony instead of disrespecting the Lexington girls like that.

Our boys won state a few years ago and the losing coach made his player stand in a straight line and wait for our team to get our medals and when one of his boys took the 2nd place medal off their coach made him put it back on.

THAT is how it should be. Save your complaining for later off the field, don't disrespect the other team cause you don't like the calls.

And now that we have a photo that shows it was a goal I hope the coach apologizes to the Lexington players and team.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/videos/sports/high-school/2016/05/14/84389374/

It's been established (with evidence) that the goal line is the black line in FRONT of the white line. If the ball hit the white line when it came down (as the photographic evidence shows), then it's a goal. If the AR believes, during the game of play, that it is NOT a goal, then he should have done as you said. The AR didn't. Instead, he ran back to midfield as ARs do when a goal is scored. At the end of the day, you can't argue the facts and the evidence with opinion. If you want to really just blame someone, blame whoever left the player open to take that shot

The black line IS the goal line. Not the white line.

The white line is for Football, not soccer.

Blame the Mann defender who muffed the clear and kicked the ball right to a Lexington player who crossed it to the girl who shot the goal.

Can see it in the video. That girl should have sent that ball into the sidelines instead of trying to cross her body and kick it up field.

From WSPA 7 tonight. I'd say this video should end the debate, even though the sports anchor talks about the "white line"

http://wspa.com/2016/05/14/j-l-mann-fall...game-2-1-in-ot/

He ran because the ball was kicked up the field. He knew it wasn't a goal.

Nobody is disputing the fact that the black line is the goal line. However, the ball can hit the white and still not be a goal. The entire ball must cross the black. Just because a portion of the ball hits white does not mean the entire ball entered the white area.

Also, you are completely wrong about the AR responsibility. On a straightforward goal, yes tha AR turns and runs toward the center line, no flag. On a questionable goal with play continuing, if the AR believes it to be a goal, the AR should stand his ground, raise his flag, make eye contact with the center and then run toward the center line with his flag still raised.

Fortheloveofthegame That is one heck of a statement you put together. I saw the whole thing and this center ref should never be allowed to coach another soccer game, much less a championship game. Thanks for those thoughts. Now, who do we call!!

But I'm saying he ran back up field because the ball was cleared out of the box. That is the only reason he ran.

This is a good look but there is no definitive view that shows the entire ball over the black goal line. In fact, this is a good view to show that the ball hit the white close to the black line, which lends more credence to the presumption that the entire ball was not over goal line. Then when you take into account the goal posts were wrongly placed a few inches back into the white, the argument for no-goal is stronger.

Bottom line....with photos and videos we cannot agree if it is a goal or not so how could the refs in real-time definitively say it was a goal. Impossible.

Am I looking at a different photo and video?? If there was no white between the black line and the rubber I would understand the argument. But you can pause the video at 38 seconds and just like the photo you can see white between the ring of rubber pellets coming up and the black goal line. I have no idea how a ball could hit there without completely crossing the black line.

i

Love it....yeah blame Rawlings. How come this new, fancy Rawlings ball did not have goal line chip technology embedded in it?

^ I am going to disagree.

Pause the video at the 35 second point and you can see that the front of the goal post is in front of the black line. Which suggests that the back of the goal post is lined up with the back of the black lune, which is where it should be right?

And if that is the case and the ball bounces completely inside the white area as shown on the photo close up that would suggest that the whole ball is past the black line.

Plus the black dots that kick up would be almost the exact size of the ball so if the ball was on the line the black dots would be on the line too.

But photo shows space between black goal line and spot where ball hit. And more than enough space to suggest it was clearly behind the line.

You mean the Mann supporters can't agree.

Everyone else including that news channel seem to think it is a goal.
And say what you will about the refs, but they look to have got it right.

And you don't even need the photo or instant replay. Just think of the trajectory of the ball. Hits the post then comes down towards the back of the goal and hits the ground then bounces back up out of the goal. If the ball didn't go into the goal it would bounce differently.

It would have hit the post and came down away from the back of the goal and towards the field of play.

BTW I downloaded the 1st video and watched in slow motion and it is clear the ball hits post and takes an angle towards the back of the net not to the front and out of the goal.

Twenty Five years of doing this, and people still call that a goal. First, when the ball hits the bar, AR2 is not on the goal line, he is a good 5 yards in front of it, so from his angle (5 yards in front of the goal line) he may have well thought it was a good goal. However, that angle it is impossible to see it. This is why in the EUFA league they have officials standing right off the field but on the goal line. It is impossible for ANY AR no matter what skill level they are at to 100% be sure that the ball completely went over the goal line.

Second, when a ball hits the top cross bar it has not completely gone over, backspin must propel the entire ball, not part of it, over the goal line. If any part of that ball hits the goal line, it is not a goal. The width of the goal line should be the same as the width of the goal posts, since the ball must travel beyond the posts it must therefore completely travel beyond the goal line, which the picture shows it didn't.

Bottom line is, the AR never made it down to the goal line, therefore it is impossible for him to be 100% sure that it went in, that isn't his fault since it is impossible to run that fast. What was his fault was calling it a goal without being 100% sure and being right there. Tough loss.

If your team is so much better than Lexington is, as you said on TV and in the paper, why didn't your team put the match away in regulation?

Stop whining, have a little class.

Read PJAY's earlier post about how bad the refs were. They weren't going to let Mann win. Don't just jump in the middle of the thread or watch the game yourself.

The bolded part is wrong.

The goal line is the thin black line in this photo, not the larger white line.

The ball is clearly beyond the black line. And it is not even close.
The video posted last night also shows that the ball came down clearly beyond the black line as well.


And here is a screen shot of the channel 7 news story and you can see the ball is WAY beyond the black line. Not even close from this angle. Remember black line is goal line, not white.

Click link to see large version of photo
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13235424_10205683575189380_6229547809949371960_o.jpg

Hey now... I didn't see the game so I don't know how bad the refs were.

My point is that everyone complains about the refs, both sides, especially when you lose. That is life.

Bigger point is complain about the refs all day long. End of the day that ball crossed the line and is a goal and Mann lost.

GOAL! I was there and said it was in immediately. Congrats to the Wildcats!

I will agree that was a goal at the end. The rest of the game's refereeing was what took us there. That is what I was referring too earlier. PJay stated several cases of how bad the refs wanted Lexington to when. Even stated how one sided the stats would be.

At the end of the day if the shoe was on the other foot the argument would be going in the same way. To lose a state championship like that is just crummy no matter who is on the losing side. It was a hard call for anyone to make and it did look like the middle ref was just ready to get the game over. It was a tough game for both teams, in the first half Mann possessed the ball 65-70% and just could not find the net, I think a lot of factors played in this game. How much does Lexington play on turf? Mann does not play on turf at all and as most of you know has probably the worst field condition in the upstate. You could see from the start of the game those girls we off on the turf, the ball played much faster then they were use to and due to that turned the ball over a lot. The heat was a factor and you could see that start taking a toll as the game went on with the cramps and just the pace of the game.
My daughter wanted a state championship possibly more than anyone on that field and it hurts to lose, it hurts even more to lose with so much controversy. Lexington is a good team, are they better, I am not sure about that, it looked pretty even, take out some of the other influences of this game and I think we would have really seen who was the better team, unfortunately we will never know.

Typical Mann attitude.

They whine, they cry, it's never their fault.

Sounds like you have had many butt kickings by Mann Bomber. How many titles do you have or been too?

Dale, you should go to a refereeing class. The AR will not run with the ball out of the box when it is cleared. The AR will stay with the second to last defender. At the point right after the goal was scored, the second to last defender was the keeper. If it wasn't a goal, the AR would not have run up the sidelines like he is taught to do.

Are you referring to my post? If so I am not sure you read it correctly, I said "Mann could not find the net" I do not think that is implying that it was not our fault, it most certainly is. We should have put that game away in the first part of the first half when we had three shots to Lexington's 0.
Shots on goal Mann clearly dominated that stat. You got Lucky. Period. Luck that is all it was, not skill, if it was skill that ball would have hit the net and we would not be talking about a line and picture of the goal post etc.

I was at the game yesterday, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I was quite impressed at the level of the game, as I've only ever seen a handful of girls games at the 3a level, and it's just much lower than yesterday's game was.

Mann definitely had more of the ball, but apart from corners, they really didn't fashion many clear cut opportunities. Lexington, while they defended for large parts of the game, always looked dangerous when #13 got on the ball and #10 or #12 ran off her. I was also extremely impressed with #14 for Lexington, who absolutely shut down Mann's fast right wing all game.

That being said, how anyone could say Lexington just got lucky is beyond me. You don't keep a team like Mann to one goal with luck. You do it with organization, work, heart, and hustle. And Lexington had the perfect attackers to just play counter-attacking soccer.

What I saw was 2 great teams with contrasting styles playing yesterday. And the more defensive-minded team won. And personally, I like that for the same reason I loved watching Simeone's Atletico Madrid beat Barca then Bayern in back to back UCL matchups: because there is an art to defending deep and countering quickly with pace, just as there is an art to keeping the ball and moving it around to open space to exploit.

Congrats to both teams and thanks for a great match for us spectators.

THE GOAL WAS A LUCK GOAL..... Lexington played well. I said that in my earlier post but the game winning goal was a luck goal. Lexington's coach was very prepared to shut down Mann's ammunition.

There are certainly a lot of opinions, assumptions, and rhetoric on this board about the goal. The problem is that those are not facts.

I took the time to analyze the digital imagery using high-tech digital measurements to seek out the actual facts.

Fact #1: The ball has a diameter of 9”, which is standard. Of course, who knows what the Rawlings ball is???

Fact #2: The goal line is the black line and measures 4” wide as measured from the available digital media imagery posted on this board

Fact #3: The ball can impact the white area beyond the goal line by a distance of less than 4.5” (the radius of the ball) and not be a goal as the entire ball would not have crossed the goal line. See image below.



Fact #4: The goal posts are not aligned properly with the goal line as evidenced by this digital imagery and are approximately 2" behind the goal line.



Fact #5: This misalignment of the goal posts backward increases the distance the ball may strike within the white area and still not be considered a goal to a minimum of less than 6.5” because the entire ball has not cleared the imaginary line between the goal posts. See image below.



Fact #6: The distance between the back of the black goal line and the black crumb flying into the air where the ball struck is 4.8” as evidenced by the image below. This image was blown up to the individual pixel level to be able to accurately measure the distance.



Conclusion: If the goal posts had been properly aligned the goal would have been a good goal; however, since the goal posts were not properly aligned and extended backward off the line, the result is no goal.

The margin for error on the officials making the correct call here is very high with only .3” separating goal/no-goal based on the line; and, that margin becomes even higher (actually it becomes 100% margin for error since they called it a goal) when the goal posts are accounted for and the fact that the AR was not in a good position to see the play down the line.

I believe that now, this puts this goal/no-goal issue to rest since the facts, not opinions, clearly indicate that it was not a goal.

Given the complexity of this decision and the fact it ultimately decided a championship after 104 minutes of a very tough match for both teams, there is no way the officials could have seen with absolutely certainty to the extent acceptable to call this a goal. The AR was about 35 yards away and a good five yards off the goal line , which would radically skew his perception of the play. I do not know a single person that could determine the correct call with a margin for error of about 9/32 from that distance and angle. And yet, notwithstanding those facts, he still clearly and repeatedly indicated no goal. Somehow though, that did not matter and they got it wrong. The whole situation was handled very poorly.

Which, goes back to my original point that this crew performed absolutely horribly regardless of the outcome. That is what is getting lost here. Poor decisions, out-of-position, improper performance of duties, failure to properly inspect the field…the list goes on and on. There needs to be inquiry and there needs to be consequences.

This is 100% inaccurate. FIFA law 6 clearly defines the role of the AR in the scenario that occurred...stand ground, raise flag.

So you are assuming that these refs knew what they were doing. Watch the footage. Look at 7 minutes into overtime and tell me she isn't holding the Mann girl in the box to keep her from the break away toward goal. It should have been a penalty kick. Get back to me on the rules.

Find away to see the foul stats and see how one sided it was the whole game. I believe in the rule book it also states to call a consistent game with no favoritism.

Haha, you just showed the FIFA laws of the game.....this is NFHS, totally different. Get an NFHS book, and show me where it says that.

Sometimes a team fouls more than another. I'm not going to make up calls to "even" out the fouls. Are you even being serious here? You sir are a joke....and from an outside perspective are just making your team look like a bunch of whiners and sore losers. Just saying....

Ok, you are REALLY making yourself look bad.

That was not luck, go watch the WHOLE video. Lexington girl put pressure on the Mann defender and the defender muffed the clear giving the ball right to the Lexington girl who then crossed the ball to the girl who shot the goal.

Start of the play the girl who shot the goal was converging on the ball, once she saw her player get control she immediately went the other way making herself open for the pass. And then she got the pass and placed it IN the goal. Little in the goal or a lot in the goal doesn't matter. It went in and it counts.

So it wasn't luck it was smart play by the Lexington girls and a mistake by Mann defender.

And give Lexington some credit. They are the ONLY undefeated team in the state at any level boys or girls.

And if you look at common games Lexington looks better.
Mann lost to Magnet 0-1 , Lexington beat them. 2-0
Lexington had two ties to start the season (they won them both in PKs) then crushed everyone else they played. And I mean crushed, they scored 2 goals in every game they played (besides the ties). And won every game but two by 2 or more goals.

Lexington is clearly the best team in the state this year. Hard to argue with 25 straight wins. Zero loses. Two ties that they won in PKs. So they beat every team they played, what more can you ask for them?

While I will agree that NFHS is different, and totally incompetent in my judgement, the NFHS rules do NOT address AR responsibilities on goals and thus defer to the FIFA laws.

And since you seem to be so knowledgeable about the NFHS rules, then why was the game allowed to be played on an improperly marked field in violation of NFHS rules? Why was the home team allowed to wear uniforms in violation of NFHS rules? Why was the field not properly inspected by the officiating crew in violation of NFHS rules? I could go on but I believe I have made my point.

You make a statement that is not true but the issues that are true are ignored.

Statement from J.L. Mann Coach Steve Georgopoulous via email to post for him on the Message Board:

Congratulations to Lexington.

Mann....tough loss.

In all my years of watching soccer (and there are many) and watching dozens of high school soccer state championships, I have never seen such a debacle as the SC 4A championship between Lexington and Mann. This officiating crew should be banned for life from the pitch. It was by far one of the worst jobs ever done by a crew that I have ever witnessed. Clearly the fiasco at the end of the game with the goal called in golden goal overtime where the AR visibly, demonstratively, and verbally indicated it was not a goal is what everyone will be talking about; however, this crew was simply awful the entirety of the match.

There was the non-PK call at the 7 minute mark of the first overtime period where a defensive player restrained an offensive player in the box by grabbing her shoulder with a hand full of jersey and pulled her back so the keeper could corral the ball (watch the tape…it is very clear). There was no doubt this was a PK in real-time yet the center swallowed his whistle like nothing happened. There were the two botched calls in the 2nd half on Mann #15 who should have received a second yellow and forced Mann to play down a man; but again, the center cowered at making the right call. That of course assumes that the first yellow he showed was correct…that would be a wrong assumption. Then of course he was more than willing to whip out another yellow card for unsporting behavior for sending the ball away after a foul. I have a real problem with referees who are fast to throw soft yellows for minor infractions or during stoppages in play yet refuse to make the right decision on plays that can get someone hurt. Let’s talk about the dozen or so handballs that were never called. How a qualified referee can miss that many simple calls like that is unbelievable. Ironically however, one of the ARs must have x-ray vision because he called a handball on a ball that was chested and all he could see was the player’s back. Then there is the AR calling for an offside free kick when it was a goal kick. He didn’t even know what was going on in the game. How about the handling offense on the Lexington keeper in the 1st half that was not called just outside the six…clearly that was a Lexington defender trying to shoot on her own goal and not making an intentional pass back. Are you kidding me? Then there are the offside calls when a “defensive player” plays the ball back. How’s that? Is there a new offside law?

That takes us to all the fouls that were called, I disagreed with about 80% of those called (way too many of those were very soft touch fouls); and, all the fouls that were not called that should have been called, with which I disagreed 100%. Call the fouls consistently please. It was such a pitiful display of incompetence that was so totally random and inconsistent that it is extremely hard to believe that this guy actually passed the certification test let alone was chosen to do a championship match. I would also love to see the foul stats on this match as they had to be outlandishly one-sided against one team.

Finally, that brings us to the mayhem in the final minute of the first golden goal overtime. The shot is taken, hits the bar, bounces down off the line, and out into the field of play. The AR does not indicate goal, he simply begins to follow the ball back up the field. The Lexington players do not complain. Suddenly the center stops the match and calls goal. Chaos erupts from both teams and fans. The center goes over to the AR who verbally and demonstratively indicates that it is not a goal, which was witnessed and overheard by a multitude of players, coaches, and spectators. The Mann players and bench celebrate the “no-goal” they believe is about to be called when suddenly the Center for no known reason indicates “Goal.” What a complete abuse of power. The center was in no position to make that call. He must defer to AR on the line. To overrule the AR in that situation is ludicrous from an officiating standpoint. And, as has been shown in the many pictures floating around on the web already, the entire ball was NOT over the goal line. The picture floating around that shows it best shows the ball kicking up black crumb from the white football line just behind the goal line. While the center of the ball did land behind the line, the laws of physics with the angle of attack of the ball coming down preclude the entire ball from having crossed the line. It was not surprising when this crew immediately made way for the clubhouse and left chaos reigning still out on the pitch. Now there are stories that the AR is changing his story to the state officials and saying that he did tell the Center it was a good goal. The many witnesses and the reaction of the Mann team clearly refute that. Now it’s merely a cover-up to try and save face for this entire crew and the state association.

In soccer, many times players and/or coaches will complain that a referee cost them a game, which is simply not true…they just had a bad game but it impacted both teams. In this case however, one referee had an absolutely abysmal game and not only did it cost one team a game, it cost them a championship.

Bottom-line is this…whatever happened on that pitch tonight was awful and there needs to be some real inquiry as to what truly went on with this referee and this crew at this championship match. It is unacceptable!
Sent from my iPhone

Great stuff EXCEPT... the photo you posted is not from the game yesterday, but from a game earlier in the year. (I posted it via a google search)

If you look at this screen capture or watch the channel 7 video you can see that the posts are much further forward and are in the right position for yesterday's game.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13247907_10205684533293332_6392098719823842043_o.jpg


And by your measurements if the ball is 9 inches in diameter and lands 4.8 inches behind the line then the whole ball MUST be pass the black line. And that is just the edge of where the ball landed. The center spot from where it landed is another few inches inside the goal so if the ball landed 9 inches in the goal and its only 9 inches round then the whole thing has to be in the goal.

Again, watch the channel 7 newscast it has the best angle and it lands clearly inside the goal AND the goal posts are in the right position with the back of the post lined up with the back of the black goal line. (BTW how many games were played yesterday? You don't think one person would have noticed if the posts were in the wrong position?)


And again, complain about the ref being in the wrong spot, bad angle, to far away, can't tell with the naked eye etc etc etc end of the day they got it right.

I'll break it down into what I saw discussed on this board.

1) You take a goal, which was a goal no matter how much math you do on it, and draw the conclusion because the AR didn't act 100% the way you thought they should, it isn't a goal.

2) Mann had proportionally more fouls called against them during the match, which could be from the fact they played a more aggressive style of play, which will cause more fouls to be called against them.

3) Dale said that referees go into a match with a predetermined winner in mind, which is so false I don't even know where to go with it. And it is just an opinion.

4) Dale says Mann was beaten by the referees. Again, a statement you can't back up with any proof. It is an opinion statement. The last time I checked, both teams had the referee making calls for/against them.

5) Dale refers to the AR trying to do the right thing by not calling the goal, when it is quite apparent with his body language and the fact that he ran up the line that the AR was calling a goal. In fact every referee that I directed to this video showing his response say that he is displaying the goal was a goal.

6) Apparently the channel 4 camera guy is a soccer professional with whom whose opinion we should all be held to.

7) Watch in slow motion how much a soccer ball deforms when it strikes a solid object at a high rate of speed. If you want to play silly little math games, the ball literally will "squish" down to reach almost 80% of the diameter of the ball. So plug that into your equations and figure that one out. The ball fully crossed the goal line by at least 1 1/2 inches.

8) Dale is stuck on the lazy referees, I would like to see what shape this all to critical man is in. I bet he is a fine example of the dad bod.

9) "Clearly the fiasco at the end of the game with the goal called in golden goal overtime where the AR visibly, demonstratively, and verbally indicated it was not a goal is what everyone will be talking about; however, this crew was simply awful the entirety of the match. " This is an opinion, and is false......

10) "Let’s talk about the dozen or so handballs that were never called." Yes, please lets talk about them. Really this is handling, because there is no such thing as a handball. If there is no intent, and there was no hand TO ball, there is no handling. I think we solved that one.

11) "That takes us to all the fouls that were called, I disagreed with about 80% of those called", this statement drives me nuts. If you disagree with the calls, go get a license and do a better job. You all want to gripe, but nobody wants to put up with the crap you have to put up with as a referee. The angle you see in the stands is completely different than that on the field. Seriously, man up, go get certified and do some refereeing yourself.

12) "It was such a pitiful display of incompetence that was so totally random and inconsistent that it is extremely hard to believe that this guy actually passed the certification test let alone was chosen to do a championship match." Have you ever looked at the certification test for SCHSL soccer officials? It isn't difficult. I am surprised you would make this comment, for it is very easy to become a referee. Any obtuse person can do it, you just have to get a passing score, so you only need to get 4 out of 5 calls right...haha

13) "The AR does not indicate goal, he simply begins to follow the ball back up the field." False, the AR is not to follow the ball up the field. Why would he even do this to begin with? He stays with the second to last defender, which was the keeper. this didn't happen. He isn't a dog out there chasing the ball. this is truly a moronic statement.

14) " The center was in no position to make that call. He must defer to AR on the line. To overrule the AR in that situation is ludicrous from an officiating standpoint." the center referee didn't over-rule the AR call. That's a straight up lie made to attempt to sway people to your side of the argument.

15) " While the center of the ball did land behind the line, the laws of physics with the angle of attack of the ball coming down preclude the entire ball from having crossed the line." Really? I work at a nuclear power plant and use physics all the time. Your physics must be of the quantum mechanics type, because normal Newtonian physics shows that this can clearly happen, and as a referee, I have seen this exact goal happen dozens of times.

16) "Now it’s merely a cover-up to try and save face for this entire crew and the state association." Purely conjecture and your own opinion. I'll put your opinion right up there with the idea that the US government took down the twin towers.

17) " In this case however, one referee had an absolutely abysmal game and not only did it cost one team a game, it cost them a championship." In reality, if Mann would have played to the "level" that everyone said they were capable of, this would not have happened. I get so tired of hearing it was the referees fault. Man up, play harder, play the best that you can and let the chips fall where they may. In life, you don't get to blame everyone else for your problems. This is what is wrong with our society, and this is a perfect entitled example of you blaming everyone else and not the fact that your girls couldn't have executed their game plan a bit better.

would you like me to continue?

Ok, there are really only two debatable things on that final goal.

1. Was the goal in the right place
2. Where did the ball land.

1. Was the goal in the right place?
There were 4 games yesterday. That is four sets of refs, four sets of coaches and 8 goalies and not ONE of them noticed that the goal was in the wrong place? But someone from the stands or watching a TV review saw whatever all those other people missed? Really???

Not buying that.

And let's be honest, if the goal was in the wrong position and your coach didn't notice or say something then tough luck. Don't play a complete game and then at the end complain "oh the goal post was in the wrong spot so that goal shouldn't count"

Sorry life doesn't work that way.

Also I would expect the refs to call the game based on the locations of the lines, not the goal. Imagine if the ref disallowed a goal that crossed the line by saying the line was not in the right spot?

Finally the best photo I have seen of the goal posts suggest that the goal is in exactly the right position.
Click the link to see a large high quality photo showing that the front of the post is slightly in front of the line which suggests that the back of the post is lined up with the black goal line. I know there are a lot of problems with SC soccer, but I don't think lining up a goal post for a championship game is one of them.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13247907_10205684533293332_6392098719823842043_o.jpg



2. Where did the ball land?
For this we have a great photo and a video from channel 7. Both suggest that the ball was 100% inside the goal, and not even close.

Remember the ball is 9 inches wide so once the center of the ball is 4.5 inches past the line it is completely in the goal, math doesn't lie (unless it's common core)

Based on someone else's measurement the landing spot of the ball is 4 inches past the black line. And that is the very edge of the landing spot. Now if the landing spot was half an inch wide you might have a point (4 inches in plus half inch = 4.5 inches inside the goal)

But the landing spot creates an impact much more than half an inch. In fact the landing spot looks to be the same diameter of the ball. So if the landing spot is the same width of the ball and that spot is 4 inches inside the goal then the ball HAS to be in the goal.

9 inch wide ball creates a spot 9 inches wide and that spot is 4 inches inside the goal then the whole ball MUST be inside the goal. Math doesn't lie.

The only way for this to not be a goal would be for the center of the ball to land 4.5 inches inside the goal, any further and its 100% in, and if the center of the ball lands 4.5 inches inside the goal then the landing spot would be less than 4 inches from the black line.

Again mathematically there is no way for that ball to land that far inside the goal, leave a spot that big and for the whole ball to not be inside the goal itself. I mean, the ball landed on the line but the spot it created was 4 inches away?? One hell of a trick ball.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CidRTBfXAAA1_CH.jpg


So all the physical evidence we have suggest that the goal posts were in the right spot and that the ball landed well past the goal line.

If I am wrong then explain to me how that ball created a spot that big that far inside the goal without being in the goal itself. And explain how that impact zone doesn't touch the line, for it to not be a goal the ball would have had to land on the line, at least partially, and this the impact zone would have to be on the line as well, or very very close.

18. State Championship soccer games shouldn't be played on a football field with improperly placed goals.

On this, I think we can all agree.

Believe it or not, the goal posts are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is, did the ball cross the goal line.

Situation 1.4.1 ....the entire ball passes beyond the goal line, but does not pass beyond the goal posts and under the cross bar because the goal is not in its proper position. A goal is awarded.
Ruling: Correct decision. The goal is assumed to be in the proper position.

That picture clearly shows the ball mark completely beyond the goal line.

As to the goals not being properly placed, etc. In Georgia this year for their state championship girls basketball games their baskets were somehow improperly placed and no one but one person noticed. It happens.

http://usatodayhss.com/2016/baskets-set-up-in-wrong-place-for-georgia-state-title-games

As a Mann parent, we should win with class and lose with class. It's fun to win, it hurts to lose - especially like that - but we inevitably have to experience both. I've watched the videos several times and I have to agree that it was a goal - regardless of anything else. Whether the AR or center ref truly thought or knew that it was a goal is up for debate, but the evidence is strong that the entire ball was across the goal line.

I do believe that Mann was the better team and controlled the majority of the game. In a series, Mann would probably win. In a one game championship, Mann failed to capitalize on their opportunities, while Lexington took advantage of their chances. Mann has a great team, but sometimes great teams don't always win.

The referees did not cost Mann the game. Were there questionable calls? Certainly, but that is no different than any other game in any other sport. Mann had some good looks at the goal, but the shots didn't fall. And when Mann had defensive breakdowns, Lexington was able to put the ball in the net (or across the line).

Mann loses a great group of seniors, but there is no rebuilding for this team. They will simply reload and hopefully use this experience as ammunition and come back stronger and more powerful next year.

Never fear Patriot fans, you guys will just need to recruit better for next year. A few more players not zoned for Mann... more players who don't even live in Greenville county. Just keep using that magnet school loophole to get the remaining CESA ECNL players next year. #karmaisabeautifulthing

No worries, they will not have to do the recruiting all the rules change next year and all the players will go to Mann on their own.... Wouldn't yours? If your kid was the best of the best in the area, wouldn't you want your kid to play at the best school? I mean really let's all be honest.

http://www.schsl.org/2015/update2016March.pdf

Hey more power to them. As long as their football team stinks, the powers that be could care less how many soccer & lax titles they win. If they ever start winning football games, the party is over.

And if we are going to be honest let's admit that it gives you a HUGE unfair advantage over the schools that aren't magnet schools.

Especially on the girls side where one or two players can make the difference between a good team and a championship team.

At this point if you want to win a state championship in soccer you either need to be really big or a magnet school.

Isn't this true of all sports? Look at Wando and all the transfers into that school? Look at Byrnes for football. It happens everywhere and for every sport. Did Mann recruit a bunch of baseball players too and that is why they are playing for the state championship? How about softball, Lacross? All of their spring sports are good. I hardly believe they "recruit", kids want to play there because they have a better chance of winning. Just like all football players want to play at Byrnes, they want to win. Go all the way. That is a high school kids dream.

Spin away. That's why we have club sports. Just another nail in the coffin of high school sports. Burn it to the ground. Glad I played in an era when playing for your home team with kids I knew since birth meant something.

Kudos to Lexington.

You people are stupid with the recruiting statements. Mann took 22 kids last years as magnet students, and only 1 played soccer. And didn't start. The only reason that Mann has that many girls is because people move close to Cesa because they are there 5 times a week. Wouldn't you?

I think there is a difference between moving into a school district and being a magnet school, a huge difference.

People certainly move to areas for the schools, but there is a huge difference between making that level of commitment and picking a school for your child based on sports programs.

And soccer, lacrosse and other upper income sports are rip for magnet school because they are established to attract high level students and who plays soccer and lacrosse? High level students.

Which is probably why Mann does good at upper income sports and not so much at lower income sports, right?

And here is a thought- Nation Ford and Fort Mill boys both made the quarter finals this year. These schools are 3-4 miles apart in same town and school district. Now imagine if one of them was a magnet school and sucked up just a few of the other teams best players. How much better would that have made them?

Or Fort Mill girls who lost 2 games this year, give them just a couple of the best players from NAFO and imagine how much better they could have been.

And something like 30% of Mann students are magnet students? So that means maybe 5 players on each soccer team? Maybe more. What team in the state wouldn't want 5 more quality club players on them?

So the web site is wrong??

https://www.greenville.k12.sc.us/jlmann/main.asp?titleid=history

"We became a magnet academy of Math, Science and Technology in the fall of 1997. About 30 percent of our students are magnet academy students."

Out dated info?

That is not correct, Dale. I know this for a fact. You are telling me that there are no starters for Mann who live in areas not zoned for Mann? Or, live outside of Greenville county? Just own it dude.

Don't blame the refs, I would look closely at the coaches on both sides. If basic attacking principles are used, Mann wins 5-3. Whatever could have happened did happen.

James Gray, I don'y have a dog in this fight, but you are pretty much an A**. Class A1. My daughter plays D1 soccer and throughout the club and high school years, especially yesterday, it looked to me that the referees wanted to end the game and go home. I do believe that the goal that ended the game was a goal, but after watching the game and going thru slow motion a lot, the referees definitely wanted Lexington to have the advantage. The center ref was closer to the girl that got pulled away from the ball in the box in overtime, than he was when he made that final decision to give the game to Lexington.
Mann may be a magnet school, but you people are so stupid that you believe that they recruit for soccer. Why wouldn't they do that for football and other sports.
On this thread JAMES GRAY and PJAY are a couple of old men that need to find a hobbie. Go back and read what Pjay said in his first post. He admitted that the fouls were called in Lexington's favor. He even asked for the stats because he knew the refs had abused Mann. James Gray, I will say it again, you are just an A**. Your thoughts means nothing to this game or the game of soccer in this case. Thanks for breaking it all down for the rest of us. Maybe if you had went to a magnet school, you could just write a paragraph and not use a list. I guess you are used to going grocery shopping for your wife. Grow a pair.

name them

Yea. Name them Francis. I would be interested on which players they are?
You said you knew. Write it down.

They take an average of 21 kids per year. Call the admin. That would be aprox 85 kids. Yes, I would say the website is wrong.

You people should be more concerned about Wando. Have apron. 4k students and the majority of her team plays club ball for her. Does the Lexington Coach Coach Club? Francis, since you know everything else, maybe you will know that too.

So you are backing off that, hard line huh, Dale?

I will not name any kids. Dale knows I'm right though.

Dale, there is not a starter for Mann that lives in another county?

No. There isn't. Just give the number. Francis. Your making false statements and doing you best to make the school look like it is recruiting.


Anybody NAME ONE. Just the number! I don't know who your talking about. Must be a superstar though as much as your concerned.

While your at it. I bet there is not one kid that lives in Lexington, that lives with their other parent to go to River Bluff or Vise versa. Do you agree? Francis. By the way, Francis, are you a man or a woman. Just wondering.

I'm not backing off anything. Give me the number. Francis.

I will not out a kid.

Again, are you telling me that there is not a starter that lives outside of Greenville County? If you are, then we both know that you are lying.

I think Francis has made a statement that she can't back up. How about giving us one in the last 4 years that was recruited and played for Mann girls soccer?

You need to go back and read what I said again.

Never said anything remotely like that. I was not at the game so I have no idea how it was called.

What I DID say was that we played Mann a few years ago and a lot of thought it was called on Mann's favor by home town refs.

That is sort of the nature of the game. Our girls are angels who never foul and the other team is a bunch of cheating biker chicks. And of course the refs always hate us and love them.

BTW I spent a LOT of time on the side line taking photos and the refs have a much harder job than you may think. MUCH easier to see fouls from the stands because you have a better field of view. On the field you often miss stuff because bodies are in the way or the angle is bad.

For example saw a girl holding the back of a girls jersey plain as day, but the ref was across the field and in front of both girls and lacks the x-ray vision it would take to the see the hand on the jersey. So yea, we were yelling for a foul and the ref never saw a thing.

That is life.

Anyway, you lost to Lexington. Man up and deal with it.

Don't understand why the referees are at the center of this debate? IMO the refereeing this year has been the worst its ever been, so it should not be a surprise to anyone that the referees did not get better over night.

Instead of debating how many inches the ball was over the line (kudos to the AR for making the correct but gutsy call), SC Soccer should be focusing on reform of HS Soccer Officiating in the state (coming from a current HS official).

Referees need to be held accountable... Coaches, players and fans are all held accountable for their actions, why not referees? Match assessments and a simple rating system by the coaches and referee peers on the referees overall performance would greatly increase accountability and sort out the overall capability of each referee. Other SCHSL officials have accountability to the league based on in-game-performance , why not soccer?

Hey, I'll own being an ahole. But unfortunately it doesn't make What I wrote any less true. Plus, I'm trying to exactly figure out how your daughter playing D1 soccer figures into this discussion. Would you like an award for that fact?

was at match yesterday....poor venue choice. Both scoreboard and PA system were not properly functioning...the game: if Mann had committed to stopping Lexington's #10 as well as Lexington committed to stopping Mann's #12 then Mann wins in regulation .. Coming-out of a water break at 20 minutes with a 1-0 lead, particular attention should have been paid at the price of going forward, which opened up the ball over the top. Mann's defenders lacked focus and urgency needed to close out and win championship.. ... thought Lexington had several high quality shots that the Mann keeper did well to stop....thought Mann squandered their procession edge by trying to force play down the right side when direct runs a Lexington's center backs had more success i.e. when they scored....The ref? The OT non-call when Mann's #13 had her shoulder and shirt pulled in the box. You didn't need a high mega pixel camera with a telephoto lens to see that she was closer to the ball than the keeper and was kept from getting to it by being pulled from behind.... to not give it was unprofessional....thought the goal was a goal but not sure how anyone could be definative, very close and maybe too close to call especially when the ref passed on the foul in the box. Exciting match with lots of drama and opportunity for second guessing.

I was at the game and can confirm the back of the net moved after it skimmed the top of the cross bar on the final goal. The video / pics show clearly the ball had crossed the black goal line. Great display of refereeing by the sideline official to inform the center ref that this was a goal. The classless post game interview from the JL Mann coach was unbelievable. How could anyone want their child to play for a coach that is a horrible role model for their kids like that man. I would be embarrassed to be a part of a program that is led by a man like that. He was out coached all game by Chris Fryland and Kelley Maupin. Instead of having someone shadow Lex's #13 who was clearly the best player on the field at all times the JL Mann coach let her roam free in the middle of the field all game. If the JL Mann coach was as worried about shutting down Lex's talented sophomore offensive players (#12, #10, #13) as he was about the refereeing maybe he would have had clearly seen #13 destroying his team all game and made a change defensively. It's very easy to make an excuse and blame officials when you were outcoached and lost to a superior program. The tough thing to do is accepting a loss and showing respect to the new 4A Girls State Champions Lexington. I'm glad we were all able to see which road the JL Mann coach chose to take by that classless post game interview. What a shame.

Very passionate thread and topic, after reviewing all the video evidence provided it seems no question the call was correct, and a goal awarded. I side with those who think the behavior by the JL Mann coach is in poor taste. To blame the officials is wrong.. Mr. Gray is correct, score more goals.. play better, don't put yourself in position to lose on a 50/50 call.

Folks, for those who think these officials have a "biased" in who wins and who loses you truly are drinking your hometown Koolaid. Officials in all sports are doing their best to get the call right, to go "un-noticed" to do the best for the teams and the game.

Don't be "that fan", in sports there is the "thrill of victory" and "the agony of defeat". Both not only show character, but they reveal character. Unfortunately, this will not be a time where the JL Mann coach reflects on his behavior as "positive". I imagine he will wish he had handled this in a more sporting way. I know he is fighting for his team, and he should, but this is not the avenue.

Congratulations to both teams, they had incredible seasons.

From all I've seen, this was a hard-fought championship between two excellent teams who both proved beyond a doubt that they deserved to be there. I think most will agree when I say I'd rather see a match decided on the field in the waning OT than have it decided in kicks from the mark...the latter doesn't say nearly as much about the overall quality and effort of the teams.

Regardless of what the AR said or didn't say, did or didn't do, or how anyone in the heat and excitement of the moment perceived it, there is no reasonable doubt from the video that the entirety of the ball crossed the entirety of the black goal line. The ball crossed into the goal and a goal was awarded...that's about as fair as it can be.

The bottom line is that both teams obviously played like champions. Both teams were deserving, but only one could walk out as the winner, and Lexington did what they had to. You can call the angle of the ball off the crossbar luck, but creating the opportunity for a shot on goal at that range took skill and effort.

In the end, it was a championship decided by inches, and that's how it should be remembered.

The Mann coach has demonstrated the same attitude all season as he did during and after the championship game. It should not surprise anyone with his very poor attitude and sportsmanship. It is sad to see that his players and the fans follow his lead - all continuing to blame officials when things don't go their way. In my opinion, this team is way too good to fall to this level.

Please don't lump all of the Mann supporters together. As I posted yesterday:

As a Mann parent, we should win with class and lose with class. It's fun to win, it hurts to lose - especially like that - but we inevitably have to experience both. I've watched the videos several times and I have to agree that it was a goal - regardless of anything else. Whether the AR or center ref truly thought or knew that it was a goal is up for debate, but the evidence is strong that the entire ball was across the goal line.

I do believe that Mann was the better team and controlled the majority of the game. In a series, Mann would probably win. In a one game championship, Mann failed to capitalize on their opportunities, while Lexington took advantage of their chances. Mann has a great team, but sometimes great teams don't always win.

The referees did not cost Mann the game. Were there questionable calls? Certainly, but that is no different than any other game in any other sport. Mann had some good looks at the goal, but the shots didn't fall. And when Mann had defensive breakdowns, Lexington was able to put the ball in the net (or across the line).

Mann loses a great group of seniors, but there is no rebuilding for this team. They will simply reload and hopefully use this experience as ammunition and come back stronger and more powerful next year.

Well done, whoever you are. Thank you for representing your program well, and having a bit of class in a defeat.

....certainly Lex's #13 is player with great upside and fun to watch.. just think for this game she wasn't the clear cut "best player on the field" of many talented players....she was dynamic when on the ball but for me didn't track balls in the air well enough and failed to win enough balls in mid field to keep Mann from processing it. Mann's #7 in particular was able to win balls out of the air and was more of a ball winning physical presence in the mid field... maybe that is why Lex's best scoring chances came later in the game when they when they adjusted to play over rather than through mid field to spaces vacated by Mann's wandering outside backs. Lex's #12, #9 & #14 shined but Mann's #13, #23 and their keeper were also notable. Look forward to seeing both teams groups of underclassmen back next year

certainly Lex's #13 is player with great upside and fun to watch.. just think for this game she wasn't the clear cut "best player on the field" of many talented players....she was dynamic when on the ball but for me didn't track balls in the air well enough and failed to win enough balls in mid field to keep Mann from processing it. Mann's #7 in particular was able to win balls out of the air and was more of a ball winning physical presence in the mid field... maybe that is why Lex's best scoring chances came later in the game when they when they adjusted to play over rather than through mid field to spaces vacated by Mann's wandering outside backs. Lex's #12, #9 & #14 shined but Mann's #13, #23 and their keeper were also notable. Look forward to seeing both teams groups of underclassmen back next year

goal or no goal the AR said verbally "no goal". the most upsetting thing for our players was he changed his mind after many witnesses heard him say no goal. But i do agree with green15. Mann did not shut down their top players and that resulted in a loss. after watching the game on video i did notice that the ref was somewhat consistent in the first half, then something changed with his consistency in the second half and in overtime. Blatant foul on mann's number 13 in the box in overtime. her shorts were basically pulled off. kinda ironic the refs saw the ball bounce pass the line but didnt see this foul in the box. I think these refs shouldnt be allowed to ref another playoff/championship game again. as the AR changing his mind in the girls game did have another inconsistent game, the playoff game with Mann boys vs Fortmill if i recall correctly (correct me if im wrong). ironic to me. great game to watch. would love to see a rematch.

Excuse me the boys game with the same AR was Mann v.s Nation Ford.

Mann was easily getting frustrated by the non calls. They were held the whole game and kept from going after the ball. Especially during the first overtime. You can easily see it and so did the ref. He just didn't want to call it. Also, no one has mentioned Mann's center defenders. These are easily 2 of the best in the State. #19 has a scholarship to Mississippi State and has led Mann to 4 State finals, and the other one I believe a sophomore. Both are great defenders. Over the 4 years #19 played, they have only given up maybe 30 goal, while scoring over 500. That is why they didn't give up goals in the playoffs. The girl that played right back and was in on the last goal was not a defender, just fast, and put there for that reason. She mad a couple mistakes that cost them.

Mann is not used to playing soccer that way. They maintain procession and work the ball in. Most all of their goals this year came from crossing the ball and set plays. I will say this venue was a poor venue. They should have kept it at RiverBluff. Also, the wind played a major factor on the turf field. I think that Mann had the better team, but Lexington had the better game plan. They were prepared for Mann's offense. There still needs to be an inquiry about how this game was handled. SC doesn't have the best reputation. There is only about 5 girls going to Power 5 schools. 2 of them, didn't even bother to play high school because of these types of situations. Both going to USC and now at Mann.

Now my last opinion, if the referee had called the foul in the box in overtime, Mann would have won that game. They would have stacked the box like Lexington did the whole game.

I thought JL Mann was the better team too for the most part. But, I think Lexington was due for a break here or there and they made one with a great shot totally unmarked. And, yes, the ball crossed the line and is quite visible in the WSPA-TV footage.

The goal in regulation that JLM scored was soft! GK was rooted and allowed a shot on entire frame. She looked like a tree falling to her right side on that score. The game winning goal was scored on a poor clear by JLM's #17. I expected a tougher defense for JLM but the central defenders got overlapped several times and they paid for it by an opportunistic Lexington side who seem to be really young.

Facility was brutal! Irmo had nice digs in 1996 and 2006, but not 2016. The black lines on the field are tough to see (look like shadows on the field) and the bathrooms are antiquated. I've never seen a team have to sit on benches outside of the playing area. Parking was atrocious and the canteen on the home side ran out of food, drinks, you name it! Now all of this is a 100% upgrade from the dump JL Mann plays at in Greenville. No way should a Patriot fan/player diss any other school's facilities.

Well said Old Gal. As a team that played JL Mann the prior weekend on Saturday, I was really surprised that nothing had changed from the previous soccer season when the DFHS boys had to play up there in 3rd round of the playoffs. The field had not changed one bit. Utterly embarrassing for JL Mann, can you say sand traps, potholes, and weed city. Again, as was case last year with the DFHS Boys, the DFHS girls had to endure atrocious field conditions that were probably no better, maybe even worse, than the playing fields you might see in a National Geographic photo op spread in some 3rd world country. Both Boys and Girls soccer coaches, the athletic director, and Principal of JL Mann High School should be embarrased to even call that place a soccer field or even entertain the idea of hosting a playoff game or regular season game. SCHSL should abolish the practice of all schools from having to play on such a dangerous field. Like Old Gal said, absolutely no parent of any JL Mann player should ever be allowed to complain about any other schools facilities or field/stadium conditions. Fix your own home before making comments about someone else's home. As was said last year, there are too many quality field options, within the general area of Greenville, where better fields exist and are a much safer alternative. JL Mann's soccer field is a risk to all kids who play on it - both JL Mann players and visiting players. As a Magnate school, and a school who tends to be the envy of many, both Academically and Athletically, it boggles the mind how bad of a facility you can have. Again, not 30 yards from the soccer field, there is a baseball field that is PRISTINE and well manicured, their outfield looks like an Augusta National fairway. The soccer field looks like a grazing cow pasteur. One that you might see as you ride through the beautiful Woodruff country side heading up to Greenville. Here is a suggestion, Get some TURF (plenty of big industry in upstate - naming rights to stadium maybe). If turf idea fails, pay Saint Joe's to rent their soccer field for playoffs - .5 miles up the street. Play at the Kroc Center if needed. Safer alternatives and options exists. Sorry to go on about this again, but I find it ironic how some within this very post are so mad that Lexington won (Legit win by the way - evidence proved it - camera don't lie), they are stooping to the level to complain about Irmo facilities and the wind! Gimme a break, Gimme a break, break yourself off a piece of that Kitt Katt bar and swallow some humility and dignity. Lose with class and don't try to blame the field conditions, the bathrooms, the PA system, Rawlings balls, or the wind.

PS - That was a GREAT game between two tough talented teams, no matter how you slice it. You hate that one team had to win and one team had to lose, but that is the nature of the game. 2 years ago, I saw a team take 25 shots and only make 1 goal. I watched their opponent take 5 shots and make 3 goals. At the end of the day, Lexington made it count when it needed to, JL Mann did not. JL Mann probably had more chances, but they failed to seize the opportunities they were given or created. Lexington pulled a Carpe Diem moment when they needed to.

I want to preface this by saying that I don't have a dog in this fight. I got there early to get a seat for the Clover/RB game and since the games were so far behind, I got to watch most of this game.

As for the 70 mins or so that I got to watch, it was a really great game to watch. Both sides had opportunities, I felt Mann should have netted a couple of their shots they had. It also appeared as the match went on that Lexington wore Mann down, there were a few Mann players that were dealing with cramps. I believe this may have played a role in the outcome also.

As for the officiating....I didn't really have a problem with the majority of the calls/no calls. There is a case to be made for the foul in the box in OT, but that is also a tough call from where the center is. It's always tough to tell the angle an official has with 22 players on the field, I assume it's pretty easy to get screened and unable to view play at all times.

As for the golden goal...From where I was seating, I obviously couldn't tell at the time that it had crossed the line (I believe we can all agree now, that it was in fact a goal). But, I could tell from the AR's immediate reaction that he believed it was a goal. He immediately made a bee line up the field to signal a goal. That's probably a very tough call to make and I don't believe he's getting enough credit for calling that goal correctly. (Can you imagine the reaction if he hadn't called it and then the video came out later showing it was good?). There has been some discussion that he should have raised his flag first and then ran up the field. I, personally, believe that this action may have added some confusion. Mann might have believed he was calling offsides and then changed his mind once he talked to the center ref.

All in all a great game to watch (much better to watch than the game I actually went to watch) and congrats to both teams on a great season.

One more thing, the Mann coach may owe the Lexington girls and officials an apology. Maybe it was the heat of the moment of the loss (similar to Cam Newton after the Super Bowl), but he probably should have took a few minutes to calm down before giving that interview. I've never had any interaction with him, so I hope it was just a slight judgement error and that he usually is a great coach and example to his girls.