Quick questions for forum members

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unbelievable,
the post was not that hard to understand, its just not that complicated. is everyone so insecure that when someone questions the status quo they have to deflect from the topic and ask silly things like are you a lawyer or suggust a hidden agenda. in laymens terms (thats simple language for those in mt p). 1.have any sc players moved on to play college and then pro soccer. 2. would anyone consider changing to a process that improves players level by level and what would they consider a reasonable cost be..this is not rocket science..

Hey, if you got that out of his original post...more power to you. But I still say his message was worded in a way that I for one did not know what the heck he was asking. I still say he has some sort of hidden agenda.....

If it was not that hard for you...great. It was hard and complicated for me.

Let's face it, anyone that knows anything about soccer in SC, and most of the posters here do...already know that there are not alot of professional soccer players (either MLS or in other countries) who came up in the ranks of the SC soccer system. So why ask???

THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE.AS MUCH AS YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE FAITH IN THE SC SOCCER SYSTEM,IT DOESN'T MEAN NO ONE CAN MAKE IT TO THE PROS IN THE FUTURE. IF WE CAN'T OR ARE NOT GETTING THE TYPE RESPONSE FROM THE SOCCER SYSTEM BUT STILL HAVE OUR KIDS PLAYING IN IT OR EVEN DONE PLAYING IN IT,PLEASE LETS NOT SPREAD THE PESSIMISM. I FOR ONE BELIEVE WE DO HAVE THE TALENT TO TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL AND JUST NEED ALITTLE CLEANING UP.THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR RESPONSE.

As to number 2, still vague, would I consider a change...oh he!! yeah...I think we all are BEGGING for a change. I don't see where his question used the term "improves players level by level". I did get the bit that he was asking about cost...

As to a reasonable cost.....less than I pay now sounds reasonable to me.

You are so all over the place it's hard to figure out what to respond to. Here are your first two sentences:

THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE.AS MUCH AS YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE FAITH IN THE SC SOCCER SYSTEM,IT DOESN'T MEAN NO ONE CAN MAKE IT TO THE PROS IN THE FUTURE.

For starters, I never, ever said no one from SC would ever be good enough in the future. Your original question (I think) asked how many players have made it to the pro's in soccer. My answer was that as far as we all know, none. Somehow you have translated that into my saying no one is good enough in the future. I didn't say that...don't put words in my "fingers."

And it's clear from your most recent post you also already knew the answer that no one had made it to the pros...so why did you ask the board like you did not know.

Then you started a sentence with one thought...and then you jump to another to finish it. So it's very hard to respond to you or figure out what you are asking or what you are saying. Here is your next sentence:

IF WE CAN'T OR ARE NOT GETTING THE TYPE RESPONSE FROM THE SOCCER SYSTEM BUT STILL HAVE OUR KIDS PLAYING IN IT OR EVEN DONE PLAYING IN IT,PLEASE LETS NOT SPREAD THE PESSIMISM.

You start talking about "we" not getting the type of response form the soccer system, and then you tell me not to spread the pessimism. Ummmm...what are you talking about. So if we talk about the problems in the system we are spreading pessimism....or rather we question what your motives are so that makes us pessimistic.

Then you finish up with this:

I FOR ONE BELIEVE WE DO HAVE THE TALENT TO TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL AND JUST NEED ALITTLE CLEANING UP.

So, you DID have an agenda when you posted. YOU believe we have the talent to take it to the next level with "a little cleaning up." I take it you already have in mind what cleaning up needs to be done. Why not just post that and get it out there.

You already posted (and then deleted) that you are from the low country...so what is your plan? What club are you with, or what club do you plan to start?

You must have some idea of what you want to accomplish, or you would not have posted.

Why do you think no SC player has never made it to the pros? There were a couple of former SC High School athletes on the field for the Charleston Battery last week, which is a professional team. There have been several past Battery members who came up through South Carolina soccer.

I know of one SC female soccer player who was drafted to WUSA before it folded.

I'm sure many other people have more examples.

Soccertimez,
Hopefully this will straighten everything out for you and shed alittle more light on the purpose of the post it history and all.
First off am not sure why you keep saying i have an agenda,FYI i do not,thought it would be interesting to get views about the soccer atmosphere
2.I already got in touch with a couple of people about my first posting mentioning availability for Fall season. So i deleted the post.Unfortunately am new to all the deletion and editing process so i am sure i hurt your feelings by the way i did it.For that i apologize.
3.I am not from SC originally and i don't know that much history about SC soccer prior to the time i started coaching in SC hence my question about soccer progress Pre-1990. Also i was really interested in actually hearing from posters about their views on the changes since the olden days as it seems that from the posts on this forum,people are rather knowledgable about the game.
4. You commented on me using the term "WE". FYI, I do not have ANY child(ren) playing soccer and i always use "WE" because "WE" in our soccer situation simply makes us all accountable for progress.
In summary,have you ever stopped and thought that maybe certain attitudes or approaches to "our" kids issues are what drive some members in the soccer system to do what they are doing? I happen to have been trained by some of the best international and local trainers and there was nothing in all that soccer education that pointed to egoistic antagonism and if you want to talk about an athlete being happy,i had some of the happiest times learning,playing and training with people from different cultures.
I will just say that i was simply looking to get some feedback about changes since pre and post 1990 in SC soccer. And am talking about an educative type feedback.Some people would surely appreciate the education about the changes.

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1. The vast MAJORITY of kids playing soccer in this state will NOT play soccer in college.

This sounds alittle pessimistic soccertimez.

oh, come on rocket science, dont get ugly here. every time someone comes on one of these sites some nasty people want to break down the poster and treat them like they are morons and have no right to be on the forum. if all you want to do is keep with the "i dont understand the question" stuff, why do you even continue to get on here and waste your time trying to figure it out. IT IS NOT THAT COMPLICATED. and for the sock puppet comment, dont worry, your best friend is still in your drawer.

John Wilson (Seneca and Clemson)played for DC United
Temoc Suarez (Greenwood Toros and Bishop England and I'm sure some other club) Played a bit in MLS--Dallas perhaps.

So while there may not have been many, you can't say none.

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John Wilson (Seneca and Clemson)played for DC United
Temoc Suarez (Greenwood Toros and Bishop England and I'm sure some other club) Played a bit in MLS--Dallas perhaps.

So while there may not have been many, you can't say none.

I will stand corrected on this point as I was the one that posted we had none. Thank you for the information. It's kinda nice to know we had some players from SC that saw some playing time in the pro's.

Now that the OP has this part of his question answered, I wonder if he will enlighten us as to why he asked. His posts certainly lead me to believe he has some plan in mind for soccer in SC.

The other part of the question was college.... there are numerous SC players (men and women) who played/are playing in college.
Look at the recent signings by College of Charleston men's program as an example. Whether they can get to the next level usually depends on the player

for a list of 09 commitments
[url=http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=108096&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1]
http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.p...&vc=1[/url]

Additional info from NCAA statistics for soccer
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=279

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The other part of the question was college.... there are numerous SC players (men and women) who played/are playing in college.
Look at the recent signings by College of Charleston men's program as an example. Whether they can get to the next level usually depends on the player

Yes, there are many kids from SC who go on to play college. But, I still stand by my statement that the vast majority of kids playing today do not go on to play in college. That is probably true of every state in the country though. Someone else can do the stats, but if you take how many seniors playing HS soccer this year, and then compare that to the number of freshman that will be added to college teams next year...let's face it...the MAJORITY of those seniors will NOT be playing college soccer. Hey if I'm wrong, and 51% of the seniors playing soccer at SC High Schools go on to play next year, I'll come on here and admit I am wrong.

My question to the OP is this...should the SC soccer program's number one focus be to focus only on the kids who have the talent to play in college?

Whatever plan that maybe..I wish him or her luck with it..NUMBERS!! How do we keep people interested in soocer so half does not leave after micro? Second..As cultural as soccer is throughout the world..S.C. is not a reflection of that..That needs to change..Our game needs to be more colorful based on our population..And I believe that boys and especially girls would benefit from single gender clubs..

ST .... see the link to the NCAA stats

The answer to your question will be biased to the responder's circumstances.

In my opinion the answer is NO...BUT... there should be an outlet that allows the cream to rise to the top. This is what USSF academy is trying to do (but it will take years) and essentially the ODP program. In the end though playing in college should be a bonus to getting an education. If your goal is to play profesionally then you should consider overseas exposure, the pressure of taking classes AND playing may not be to your liking.

BTW the majority of members of this board are most likely involved in high level play, you will not find many recreation parents here

ST,
I would like to believe that the club's focus is to raise the level of all players and I believe that happens but the best rec player or the player on the decent classic team are not talked about alot on this forum so the focus comes across as high level players

Solid training at any club usually has a trickle down effect to most all players who want more from the game

It may be off topic a bit, but I would like to make a comment about college soccer in SC. I looked through many of the smaller school websites last fall and noticed that they were made up mostly of foreign players, then out of state players, and maybe a few SC players. I also looked at their records and compared the results and records with the makeup of teams they played from out of state. One thing I noticed is a school like UNCA was made up of mostly NC players and they were very successful against the foreign led SC teams. What does this mean? Not sure, but as long as a SC college is not going to be a powerhouse, I would like to see them recruit and play SC players.

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The other part of the question was college.... there are numerous SC players (men and women) who played/are playing in college.
Look at the recent signings by College of Charleston men's program as an example. Whether they can get to the next level usually depends on the player

Yes, there are many kids from SC who go on to play college. But, I still stand by my statement that the vast majority of kids playing today do not go on to play in college. That is probably true of every state in the country though. Someone else can do the stats, but if you take how many seniors playing HS soccer this year, and then compare that to the number of freshman that will be added to college teams next year...let's face it...the MAJORITY of those seniors will NOT be playing college soccer. Hey if I'm wrong, and 51% of the seniors playing soccer at SC High Schools go on to play next year, I'll come on here and admit I am wrong.

My question to the OP is this...should the SC soccer program's number one focus be to focus only on the kids who have the talent to play in college?

Texas is a big state with a lot of kids playing soccer. probably more kids play soccer in texas than there are kids in sc. no matter how good texas soccer is, a vast majority of kids there do not go on to play in college either. if they did then every college roster in the state would be texas kids.

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Yes, there are many kids from SC who go on to play college. But, I still stand by my statement that the vast majority of kids playing today do not go on to play in college. That is probably true of every state in the country though. Someone else can do the stats, but if you take how many seniors playing HS soccer this year, and then compare that to the number of freshman that will be added to college teams next year...let's face it...the MAJORITY of those seniors will NOT be playing college soccer.

Not sure I understand where we are going with this. The majority of high school seniors in any sport in any state will not be playing that sport in college. You don't need stats to show you that - common sense will tell you that.

Wow, this thread was work. Not sure the status of what the questions are/were but......

1. When referring to "Pro" players, are we talking indoor or outdoor? Assuming outdoor. And since we're talking, what's even the definition of "pro"? Vice semi-pro? I define "Pro" as someone who gets paid to play and gets paid well enough that they don't have to work at a 2nd job. This may sound like nit picking, but in the US, even today, not a lot of players can make it year round on their soccer salary.

In any event, prior to 1990, there was no MLS. The US had a pile of varied and failed experiments; North American Soccer League, United Soccer League, Southwest Outdoor Soccer League, Western Soccer League, American Soccer League, Western Soccer Alliance, American Professional Soccer League. Just to name a few. I would claim that other than the NASL, the others were semi-pro at best. I'd be surprised if anyone from SC made it to one of them prior to 1990. But maybe so.

In addition to John and Temoc mentioned in a post above, a number of SC players have played in the current USL league with the Battery and other teams. You may consider the Battery semi-pro. A few players probably get paid well enough to live on year round but most do not. Also, their contracts are not for 12 months, they only run for the length of the season. That's probably viewed as semi-pro. To contrast, MLS contracts are for 12 months. (although, try to make ends meet in an MLS city with a full time Developmental Contract that pays you a whopping $20K a year)

SC player Lawrence Smith has played in Jamaica but not on a first team. However, he went to Finland and played for a 2nd division team last year and got picked up by a 1st division team this season. So, he may count in your count, if you're interested in players making it to a 1st division pro team.

Here is a list from the link below. If you scroll down to the reader comments you will see the list I copied from. I do not see the reader comment listing Mike Gustavan - Aiken,SC/USC- who I saw on Fox Soccer Channel was recently released from the San Jose Earthquakes. Not sure of his status as of now. I'm sure there may be others.

Palmetto Pro Soccer Players

Temoc Suarez: Mt. P/ UNC/ Dallas Burn, and several other USL/USISL teams

Troy Lesesne: Columbia/ CofC/ Charleston Battery/ CofC Assistant Coach

Ben Hollingsworth: Mt. P/ SMU & CofC/ Charleston Battery, and I know he went overseas on trial to Macabi Tel Aviv

Brady Bryant: Columbia/ U of Mobile/ Charlotte Eagles, Wilmington Hammerheads, and one year of minor league arena football

Anthony Stovall: Columbia/ USC/ Cleveland City Stars, Charlotte Eagles

Jason Hotchkin: Greenville/ na/ Cleveland City Stars, New Jersey Ironmen (MISL), other MISL clubs and one or two years overseas

Hunter Gilstrap: Lexington/ Clemson & CofC/ Maritzburg United (Absa Premiership- South Africa), Cleveland City Stars, Miami FC

Thanks soccer63, I knew some of you have kept running lists.

Another thing, when we say "SC Players", are we meaning they were born in SC or just played for a SC club or college sometime during their lives?

$20K in MLS Try $12,600. That is what Jonathon Leathers made last year with the Kansas City Wizards. While not a SC player, he did play at Furman and was the SoCon player of the year. He probably wished he was making $20K!

Other SC players to add:

In the Chas Battery archives - E.J. Bossman Southside Christian HS Presbyterian College played for the Battery in early 90's, but may fall in the category of needs 2nd job to make ends meet. What about the South Carolina Shamrocks(Greenville) of the old USISL. There were a number of SC kids to play on their roster. A couple of the Boulware brothers played for them. I am sure there were other SC players rostered. There was a kid out of Anderson's TL Hanna HS, that played for Jacksonville (USL) franchise in the mid 90's, I believe, though can't remember his name.

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$20K in MLS Try $12,600. That is what Jonathon Leathers made last year with the Kansas City Wizards. While not a SC player, he did play at Furman and was the SoCon player of the year. He probably wished he was making $20K!

The Development boys got a raise this year to $20K, I didn't remember what slave wages they were making last year. This year, MLS reduced the number of development players on each team's roster from 10 to 4. And I think they raised the number of senior players they can carry but I'm not sure. Keeping up with MLS rules is a full time job.

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Here is a list from the link below. If you scroll down to the reader comments you will see the list I copied from. I do not see the reader comment listing Mike Gustavan - Aiken,SC/USC- who I saw on Fox Soccer Channel was recently released from the San Jose Earthquakes. Not sure of his status as of now. I'm sure there may be others.

Palmetto Pro Soccer Players

Temoc Suarez: Mt. P/ UNC/ Dallas Burn, and several other USL/USISL teams

Troy Lesesne: Columbia/ CofC/ Charleston Battery/ CofC Assistant Coach

Ben Hollingsworth: Mt. P/ SMU & CofC/ Charleston Battery, and I know he went overseas on trial to Macabi Tel Aviv

Brady Bryant: Columbia/ U of Mobile/ Charlotte Eagles, Wilmington Hammerheads, and one year of minor league arena football

Anthony Stovall: Columbia/ USC/ Cleveland City Stars, Charlotte Eagles

Jason Hotchkin: Greenville/ na/ Cleveland City Stars, New Jersey Ironmen (MISL), other MISL clubs and one or two years overseas

Hunter Gilstrap: Lexington/ Clemson & CofC/ Maritzburg United (Absa Premiership- South Africa), Cleveland City Stars, Miami FC

Thanks soccer63 and soccer watcher for your relevant responses and the material that you dug up. I definately think there is still a ton of chances to get even more players not only into college but further their soccer careers to what we may consider "pros" around here.Soccer watcher i think you dissected that definition pretty well referring to pros being anyone paid to play soccer and i possibly could add that spends or devotes more of their time to this as well as about 80% of his income is derived from the same employment. Well if we were in europe the definition would be more precise..i guess..lol.

Taking onto the next question in the original post,considering the observations above and maybe several others that may not have been voiced on here,assuming we have a genuine "tri-effort"(Player,coach and parent working together),what keeping in mind our knowledge of the status quo, can be done to magnify the numbers of players that successfully graduate from one level to the next i.e club ->College,College ->Proffessional or semi proffessional. I sure hope this is not complicated as the first post.lol.PS:We can start of tackling the situation hypothetically if need be.
Well lets share some ideas.

What do we do to get more or any females on that list? How about single gender clubs?

John Wilson, Seneca HS - D.C. United, Kansas City Wizards, New England Revolution, Charleston Battery, etc.

Deliah Arrington - Waccamaw HS - Clemson - Philadelphia Charge

Heather Beem - Clemson - New York Power

Fan01...Thank You!!

I do apologize for following up on this question alittle late.Been rather busy week but always find time for soccer somehow.I will go ahead and give my thoughts on this;

In respect to club -> College progression

1-First off talking about a soccer player or generally any athlete,it would help for people in responsible positions to realize that not everyone was born a natural in whatever sport they are involved in. There is a huge proportion of athletes that learnt to play the game as they progressed in the sports they are in and are effectively performing in their respective capacities in whatever sport they are doing.I will try to narrow this down to just soccer as that is possibly my major domain of sports knowledge and i do stand corrected on a few items. Now if the education that our trainers/coaches was fairly emphasized or targetted at TRULY leaving no stone unturned,not just sc but several states would have really high percentages of graduants from the stages in the game as we would be discovering tons of "hidden" talent and not just that, but also an athletes characters that would bring out a teams value in all it's true colors whether they knew how to do a "ronaldhinio" or not. I cite a typical example; Some of you might know a former Brazilian player called Fred Ddunga.Captained one of the most heroic Brazilian teams that played and i cite this because he captained the team during USA'94. His style of play was not the most fancied but he defintely did qualify to be the captain of one of the most notable brazilian teams we have seen in the world cup AND he started every game.Ddunga is currently the Brazilian national team coach and i think he has held that position for about 2 or more yrs or so. Brazil is one of the most fancied soccer teams in the world and who is their coach? Someone whom if he was to go through what our children have had to go through,or are going through,would never be where he is at this point and time.Was he the most skilled player in Brazil? Nope,however he delivered as a team player and his qualities if i could personally list and rank them on a 10 point scale: Leadership - 10,Field vision : 9,Skill level : 6. Overall ability as a player that can "deliver":10
There are various examples i could give.The bottomline here is that you cannot rule a player out or grade a player unless you know or have goal and purpose for the player be it a strong and skillful player or a weak player who just happens to love the game and needs honest direction until their confidence builds up.
We definately have to clean up the training process. Maybe it might make sense or it might not but it would help to educate or train our coaches to groom players other than slyly "coach" the players at this stage. Sometimes it looks like some of us coaches are out there looking to run up our "W" records and do not care how the players progress after we have achieved a gazillion "W's". Let a lone the fact that we might not even know how we got that many "W's" and have no knowledge whatsoever to recur the performance.
College->Pro level.
Kind of tough to pin point as i have never been a college coach but have passed through the college->semi pro or pro level or whatever one might want to call it(as a player) and my deductions here would be based on (a)a players dedication to the game(if he was groomed well at club,it will flourish in college) (b) The desire of his college coach to see him succeed as an individual that belongs to a group with a common goal.
Finally and possibly most important,as per our system in United States (i have personally been exposed and participated in some decent overseas youth programmes - valid references can be availed upon request),however,i have not seen the extent of parental involvement in the college feeder programs i.e the youth soccer clubs as we have here in th US to the extent of almost crippling our youth clubs. No offence intended here at all.If we enforced all over the country the "tri-effort" without bias or favor we just might be able to build and develop the TRUST that it takes to effect a "tri-effort" system.Once again it takes all three parties.
As i mentioned in the initial question,we start with this- hypothetically : (1)Coaches are trained to "groom" and not just be present at games and clubs because at one point and time in their lives they played the game and due to that "qualification" and other "certifications" after their time was over,they feel obliged to "coach".
(2)At the higher tertiary levels,we target for our players to not just "make the first team" but to enhance on their club achievements that initially got us to recruit them - obviously if a player was recruited to a college as being an "all time" this and that and we signed him on,then he should be worth spending time on.Ultimately we'll get him into the pros if he has been trained well and is not terminally injured in the process.
Well, that is just my 2 cents. I stand corrected on some issues but i will solemnly and fairly try to justify what i can.