CESA is a founding member of the prestigious Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) and has begun preparing for the upcoming 2012-2013 soccer year. We will field top level teams in the under 14-18 age groups and will compete within the ECNL Southeast Conference.
Our conference is very competitive and is made up of the following clubs. Capital Area Soccer League (NC), Charlotte Soccer Academy (NC), Atlanta Fire United (GA), Gwinnett Soccer Association (GA), Concorde Fire (GA), Birmingham United Soccer Association (AL), CFK Krush (FL), Brandon Flames (FL) and CESA (SC). We are proud to be the only club in the state of South Carolina selected to participate within the ECNL and are looking forward to an exciting 2012-2013 year ahead.
The Elite Clubs National League is recognized on a national level as the most productive player development arena available to the aspiring female player and will be made up of 73 clubs for the coming year. 7 new members have been added to the league for 2012-2013 from a pool of 80 applicant clubs. The ECNL Southeast Conference and National Showcase Event matches have been consistently well attended by college coaches from around the country and our players have been able to showcase their abilities as they make their college soccer decisions.
Our current 2012 ECNL graduating class has just signed National Letters of Intent in February and will be attending the following schools beginning in the fall of 2012. Jamie Alexander ( Furman University), Kristen Baker ( Stony Brook University), Stephanie Devita ( Furman University), Kerrie Edmondson ( Wofford College), Emily Graves ( Furman University), Maggie Grisell ( Furman University), Chelsea Hamrick ( Anderson University), Natalie Lackey ( Furman University), Rebecca Lisson ( High Point University), Noel McDaniel ( Lander University), Kendall Smith ( Lenoir-Rhyne University), Sarah Specter ( College of Charleston) and Sarah Tuggle ( Davidson College). We will have additional players making decisions in late spring and will update the list as information becomes available.
In addition quite a few of our 2013 ECNL class have already made their college verbal commitments with others to follow in the coming months. Those who have made their college choices include Gina Cardenas (UNC-Greensboro), Meaghan Carrigan (University of Richmond), Chelsea Drennan (University of South Carolina), Mercedes Ducker (Western Carolina University), Kaleigh Kurtz (University of Richmond), Helena Moore (Anderson University), Tahirih Nesmith (University of Pennsylvania) and Maylyn Parsons (Columbus State University) .
Madeline Ramsey (Class of 2014) and our 95 Girls ECNL team has made a verbal commitment to LSU and will be the first of many in the age group to make their decisions.
CESA Co-Executive Director Andrew Hyslop feels that CESA’s continued participation within the ECNL is necessary to provide the weekly competition needed to ensure consistent player development. “Our players must train and play at a high level in order to continue to improve. We have seen firsthand that our conference play is challenging and demanding. The players know that every game will be a battle and they have enjoyed the competition. When you add in the fact that we travel to various ECNL National Showcase events throughout the year and match up with clubs from all over the nation it is a great experience for any young player who wants to play with and against the best.”
The current 2011-2012 ECNL year will conclude with the National Championship event which will be held at the Waukegan Sports Complex in Chicago, Illinois from June 24-30 2012. CESA will be sending our under 14-17 ECNL Girls to this event and we look forward to seeing our teams finish the year in a great soccer environment.
Our teams have shown well throughout the current ECNL season and have more than held their own during conference and National Showcase event competition. On an individual level we have had numerous players selected for inclusion as part of ECNL All-Event teams which are released at the conclusion of every scheduled National Showcase event. Meaghan Carrigan (94 Girls) and Stephanie Devita (93 Girls) were selected to the All-Event teams in their respective age groups after the Phoenix event in October 2011. The Sanford, Florida event in December 2011 was also a success on an individual level as Miranda Weslake (95 Girls) and Meaghan Carrigan (94 Girls) were named to the All-Event teams. It is quite an honor for the girls as only 11 players per age group are selected at each event.
The ECNL has also expanded the Player Development Program which is designed to identify the top players within each ECNL conference at multiple age groups, provide a developmental experience and recognize and reward individual performance and achievement. Players are selected based upon their performance in ECNL competitions and recommendations from coaches. Each Player Development program will occur over two days and will include three training sessions/matches and a presentation for the players. All players will also receive Nike training gear. There are no costs for participation in the Player Development Programs as the ECNL covers all staffing, facility rental and equipment costs. The only responsibility for participating players will be the cost of travel and accommodation (where necessary).
In February 2012 CESA and the Mesa Soccer Complex were selected as hosts for the Southeast Conference PDP Event which gave the players the opportunity to train and compete in a challenging environment. CESA players who were chosen to attend the event included Emily Graves (93 Girls), Kaleigh Kurtz (94 Girls), Stephanie Devita (93 Girls), Meaghan Carrigan (94 Girls), Maylyn Parsons (94 Girls), Chelsea Drennan (94 Girls), Tahirih Nesmith (94 Girls) and Savannah McCaskill (95 Girls). Our girls performed well and represented the club with class throughout the weekend. Congratulations to each of them.
CESA tryouts for 2012-2013 ECNL teams will be held at the Pittman Park Complex (420 Blacks Road Greenville SC 29615). Tryout dates and times for the under 14,15,16,17 and 18 girls ECNL teams are as follows.
May 6
Under 14 Girls ECNL 1:00-2:45pm
Under 15 and 16 Girls ECNL 3:00-4:45pm
Under 17 and 18 Girls ECNL 5:00-6:45pm
May 20
Under 18 Girls ECNL 1:00-2:30pm
Under 14 and 15 Girls ECNL 2:45-4:15pm
Under 16 and 17 Girls ECNL 4:30-6:00pm
Players should register online for the ECNL age group tryout they will attend. If needed additional tryout dates will be scheduled and we will continue to look at potential ECNL players until we have completed our rosters.
The 2012-2013 season schedule will be released in June and CESA teams will have 16 Southeast Conference games. Our Under 15-18 ECNL teams will all attend the 2013 ECNL National Playoffs to be held in June 2013. In the Under 14 age group the Southeast Conference champion will attend the National Playoffs. In the Under 15 and 18 age groups our ECNL team will attend two additional National Showcase events, while our Under 16 and 17 age groups will attend three additional National showcase events.
CESA ECNL Club Fees 2012-2013
Under 14 Girls ECNL Club Fees are $1300.00 per player (Fall/Spring)
Under 15-18 Girls ECNL Club Fees are $675 per player.
CESA club fees include 3 Training Tops, 3 Nights of Training per Week throughout the season and additional training as needed to prepare the team for upcoming events, Goalkeeping sessions, US Club Soccer Player Registration, Referee Fees, ECNL Club League Fee and Facilities Rental.
Additional costs which are not included in the CESA club fees are Player Uniform, Team fees which will include coach’s expenses for travel, showcase event entry fees and individual player travel costs.
Interested Players may contact the Carolina Elite Soccer Academy main office at 864-329-1113 for additional ECNL information.
Interesting. All that extra money for national exposure and the majority are not going any farther than they would from playing on a local level. I don't think my daughter is missing out on anything (my personal opinion).
Second that statement, $1,300 who in their right mind pays that type of money. For that type of money I should see commitments to Indiana University, University of North Carolina, Maryland, Notre Dame, UCONN, etc.
Looks as if the only exposure for $1,300 is North and South Carolina that can be done with a half way decent club team and a nice wide angle view camcorder.
Well it's interesting. This year for $1,300 a U-14 CESA player played in premier league and in 16 ECNL games. The stated fee for SC Utd on their website for U-14 Elite is $1,380, plus $175 for uniform. I'm assuming they will play in the state-wide league and premier league and pay extra to go to some tournaments.
Does that mean that everyone in SC Utd should expect to committ to IU, UNC, MD, Notre Dame, UCONN, etc? I'll bet a little research will show that SC Utd Mt. Pleasant has similar fees as does Charlotte, Atlanta clubs, CASL, etc. That's a lot of people expecting a lot of commitments for the same money
[censored], almost made it 5 whole months without posting on here. It was such a good and peaceful time.
For a comparison can you post your club’s players and where they signed to play college? Plus cost to play?
I noticed LSU, Penn State and a few others schools not in SC or NC where CESA players have signed.
Does that mean that everyone in SC Utd should expect to committ to IU, UNC, MD, Notre Dame, UCONN, etc? I'll bet a little research will show that SC Utd Mt. Pleasant has similar fees as does Charlotte, Atlanta clubs, CASL, etc. That's a lot of people expecting a lot of commitments for the same money
No, it means that there is no need to join a national traveling team, and put forth the additional travel expenses, to get players the same college committment results as a local club. (Airline tickets cost a whole lot more than car travel and a hotel for a tournament or game) One would think that ENCL players would be recruited to more prestious schools than the local opportunities available. That would be the only reason I would be willing to put forth the training and travel fees associated with the ENCL League. Just sayin..... 
BTW - Outside of the fact I said "the majority", Penn State and the University of Pennsylvania are not the same place.
You say you wouldn't pay that kind of money unless your child was committing to XYZ University. The point of playing in ECNL, National League and even the Academy is that is where your child will be exposed to the top college coaches. There won't be that caliber of coaches at Premier league games and local tournaments. The leagues also give the players a chance to play with and against high level players. So they don't end up the scrub player from South Carolina on the roster for XYZ University.
What good is it to pay for all that travel, be exposed to "top college coaches", but only be recruited/committed to area colleges and universities? I am saying that unless there was a really good chance of my child being recruited by a "top college coach" for a top university/college outside of this region, it isn't worth the money to fly across the nation, at least not in this economy. I'll save that money to help offset college expenses.
Harry, you were gone for 5 months and came back right in time for tryouts justifying the costs. You have been missed
The Furman team next season will be loaded with CESA players. The Furman coaches do not travel (at least I have not seen them on any coaches list) to any ECNL events. So they have figured it out. They can get what they need right in their own "backyard". Of course, it had to be necessary for the players to travel to Texas, New Jersey, Washington state etc., etc.... to get the offer from Furman.
Of all the scholarship offers, are any of them even close to a full ride for playing soccer?
If that is the case, then the travel may well be worth it.
I guess this is another case of different strokes for different folks. ECNL has been a great experience for our daughter. She was offered by a University that saw her play at an ECNL event. She was able to go on visits to ACC and Big East Universities that saw her play at ECNL events. Maybe her experience would have been the same just playing in the Premier league, but I don't believe that to be the case.
The biggest benefit of ECNL is the visibility of a large range of coaches. At our last ECNL game in Sanford FL, there were over 70 coaches watching our girls perform. It's been a while since I've seen that number of coaches roaming the sidelines at a Premier game.
Is playing in the ECNL more expensive than Premier league...Yes
Is it break the budget more expensive? No, in our case it cost about $2000 more per year.
The U17 girls will be the first group to complete the ECNL cycle, so I don't believe they make a good baseline to determine whether ECNL is worth the expense or not. You need to let a couple of groups age through before you could really start measuring the stats.
Looking at the U17 commitments thus far, all except one are going out of state. Do Premier league games usually have coaches from the University of Pennsylvania, University of Richmond, and Columbus State University in attendance? I know the ECNL events did. Again, I think when we look at where girls are being offered in 4 or 5 years due to ECNL exposure and high level of competition the benefits will be plainly evident.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that our daughter thinks it is pretty cool going to Texas, Florida, Arizona, Colorado, etc. to play soccer. I hope one day she will be able to tell her children about the experience. Mom and Dad have also really enjoyed the trips. Again, we have enjoyed the ECNL experience and in our opinion it has been a great investment in our daughters future. Of course, your experience may be different.
CITG,Bomber and others i do see your point. The cost for sports these days in this economy has gotten out of controll. What i think some of you are missing is that playing in ECNL gets a player in front of college coach's from all over. It is up to the player to play well at these events to get recruited. Not only that, players cant expect a coach to just show up and watch them play. The player needs to do the foot work so coaches know where they are going to be. The good thing like with Furman which is a beautiful school is they are in CESA's backyard and get to see these players often. What a parent really needs to look at is what kind of training their kid is getting with the club they are at. If the training is not up to par and a player does not improve then it will not matter what coaches they play in front of. if playing in front of coaches from other states or training does not matter than it can be cheap for a kid to play. Its called rec soccer and its about 20 bucks a year.
You can get better exposure to 235 college coaches by entering your team into the NCSL Capital Cup in Northern Va. in November. $400 for the weekend, it's a real deal recruiting weekend with the best colleges in Div. I, II, III and NAIA. Colleges coaches are given a binder with a personal bio of every player listed by team. All of the top 100 college soccer teams are represented in that one weekend of play. By the way there other other great clubs besides SC Utd and CESA get your head out of the sand.
Mom's and dad's save the money and second mortgages and go there, oh bye the way you can guest play. Fill out a player bio on line, print it and go to the tournament headquarters you will get picked up by a team to play. I played in it in 1989 and was recruited directly off the field after my third game.
Playing in front of all the Coaches from all over the country??? OK, that may be all well and good, but very few players leave their geographic home base region to play in college. So, is the fact that all the Coaches were invited and they come, just a "sales pitch" to get you to "buy" in to the ECNL experience?
Also, college soccer must be a new thing. Did it start like say 5 years ago? I mean, how could it ever existed before without the ECNL feeding it???
What will be next. First it's rec, then travel soccer, then Premier, then ECNL...
With every "next level" means more $$$ out of your pocket.
If you look at most of the D1 rosters in SC you'll see that most of the players are not from SC clubs. When you look at college recruiting in soccer in this state I don't think we have a very good reputation as a whole. When my daughter played in tournaments for CESA the only time you saw the big colleges watching our games was when we were playing the bigger clubs like Ponte Vedra, BOCA(Premier League members),and they were their to watch them, not us. ECNL is just another money making venue. $1300.00 a year. PLEASE!!!
If you have to be in the ECNL to get looked at by Columbus State, really there is something very wrong with this picture.
Columbus State is in the Peach Belt Conference, hardly a national soccer power.
Get real!!!!
I believe there are good clubs in sc other than cesa and sc utd. I think we all know that college coaches are not lining the sidelines just to watch a sc club team play. Getting back to my earlier post. A player can not just expect that a college coach is going to see you play if they do not know you are there. It does not matter which club you play for or how much money you spent. The player has to let coaches know where they are going to be and then have to play well when they are. I do not think ecnl is there to feed colleges as bomber said but to get kids in front of the coaches. We all it is for someone to make money weather it is a club.ecnl people or a crooked politician.There are some great tournys a sc club can go to for exposure like up in VA but what is the difference than going out of state for ecnl. Those tournys are out of the area that some of you say these sc kids will play in college. Mostly northern and mid atlantic schools show up. You cant go by a posted coaches list because most do not show up or ever planned on coming. It is a selling tool for the tourny.My question would be how many players in sc from clubs other cesa,sc utd which i figure includes mt pl are getting recruited to play in college. I do not mean just going to college because we all know that is a different argument. If someone can and has the time post a list by club of who has committed to play in college. My next question would be where is everyone getting this 1300 cesa is charging. Im not saying they are not but maybe i missed it. I saw 675.00.
Why do people keep mentioning what CESA charges when the CESA fees are not as high as South Carolina United, and South Carolina United is not able to even offer girls ECNL if they want it.
I see it now! 1300 for the u-14 which is all year compared to 675 for the older groups because they are half a year. what are you people complaining about. Region III teams in NC pay 900 for the older groups then team fees.
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Watching a CESA parent sideline has as much emotion as spectators at a golf tournament. Silent drones, it would be a cold day in hell to be told as a parent to not support cheer for my child. Good luck with that.
The point is to make sure you are playing for the right reasons. You want to compete against high level competition and you have the finances to travel the globe to do it. There is no soccer money unless you are Mia Hamm. So play ODP or something and make some tapes of your child playing and send it to you school of choice. Much less expensive.
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Watching a CESA parent sideline has as much emotion as spectators at a golf tournament. Silent drones, it would be a cold day in hell to be told as a parent to not support cheer for my child. Good luck with that.
Klose you must of never been on the sideline of the CESA team my daughters have played on. Pleanty of yelling. Not always at the kids.
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The point is to make sure you are playing for the right reasons. You want to compete against high level competition and you have the finances to travel the globe to do it. There is no soccer money unless you are Mia Hamm. So play ODP or something and make some tapes of your child playing and send it to you school of choice. Much less expensive.
ODP has gotten worse every year. There has been enough complaining on this forum about ODP to prove that.
I have had a couple of DI coaches tell me that video will only show part of the story. Video is like a movie trailer. You see all the good parts in the trailer but when you watch the whole thing it really isnt that good.Just sending video is not going to work.
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I do not think ecnl is there to feed colleges as bomber said but to get kids in front of the coaches. We all it is for someone to make money weather it is a club.ecnl
If all of this is supposed to be designed to better showcase the players, then why are some Clubs excluded? We all know why, so a Club has a "trump card" over another Club, which they hope means getting their players to join it, which of course means more $$$ for the Club who is involved in ECNL. There is sure to be some very good players who are not participants in ECNL. One would think ECNL would want to avoid missing some talent.
Bomber why would ECNL want clubs/teams in their league that are not any good. It is not a rec league. ECNL allows clubs not teams in. You cant have one good team in your club and get into ECNL. Other than a couple of the SCutd teams ( sc mp included) there is no other team or club in sc that could compete in the ECNL league. On the girls side. I do not follow the boys side.
Sorry. I did not know you are an expert on every Club in the country.
CITG...I think you're showing a lot of ignorance.
Curious? How do you know where kids where recruited? I can see how you know where they chose. But how do you know where they were recruited?
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You can get better exposure to 235 college coaches by entering your team into the NCSL Capital Cup in Northern Va. in November. $400 for the weekend, it's a real deal recruiting weekend with the best colleges in Div. I, II, III and NAIA.
Better continuous exposure? Of is that a single weekend a year?
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The Furman coaches do not travel (at least I have not seen them on any coaches list) to any ECNL events. So they have figured it out.
Bomber...I think you might be missing some really important information.
Check some facts to see if there might be other reasons the Furman soccer program hasn't been able to spend money recruiting outside of the area lately.
And let's recheck what they're doing as the new president policies kick in.
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Watching a CESA parent sideline has as much emotion as spectators at a golf tournament. Silent drones, it would be a cold day in hell to be told as a parent to not support cheer for my child. Good luck with that.
Pure ignorance. No CESA parent has ever been told not to cheer for their children.
They have been told not to coach from the parent sideline.
They have been told not to be negative towards their kids.
They have been told not to be negative towards to refs.
I sure wish a few other clubs in the state would try the same.
Jak,
I take it the word "ignorance" is your word of the day. Let's define it: Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge). You call me ignorant because I state that I am glad that I did not take the ENCL route, however, you fail to see that the main point of my postings is NOT how much I have paid for club training at CESA and SCUFC, but the amount it costs to travel repeatedly across the country to get in front of coaches outside of our region. I thought I was hurting my daughter by not letting her play in the ENCL, but it does not appear that I am based on the initial reports stated at the beginning of this chain posting. So, as you can see, researching the ENCL and gathering information shows that I have been watching and learning (gaining knowlege) about the program before sinking my money into it, and therefore, does not make me ignorant. You, on the other hand, appear to be ignorant of the fact that players are getting the same results whether or not they play in the ENCL or another club league.
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Sorry. I did not know you are an expert on every Club in the country.
Just talking about sc clubs. Other than cesa and sc utd/ mp, other clubs in the state just couldnt compete in ecnl. Im not saying that there are not players on other club teams that couldnt play in ecnl but just not the teams that could.
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No, it means that there is no need to join a national traveling team, and put forth the additional travel expenses, to get players the same college committment results as a local club. (Airline tickets cost a whole lot more than car travel and a hotel for a tournament or game) One would think that ENCL players would be recruited to more prestious schools than the local opportunities available. That would be the only reason I would be willing to put forth the training and travel fees associated with the ENCL League. Just sayin.....
CITG - Sorry. Should have let you know what I was referring too. I think the quote above is the ignorance. I don't think you have any idea which schools have been recruiting ECNL players. You might know where they have committed, but I'll predict you don't know the schools or offers players have received outside of what they accepted. If I'm correct and you don't have this information, then yes, your comment fits the definition you posted perfectly.
Unfortunately, when it comes to this board, commenting from a state of ignorance (or should I say "lack of knowledge") seems all too common place. Too many posts are based on emotion, not knowledge based.
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Jak,
I take it the word "ignorance" is your word of the day. Let's define it: Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge). You call me ignorant because I state that I am glad that I did not take the ENCL route, however, you fail to see that the main point of my postings is NOT how much I have paid for club training at CESA and SCUFC, but the amount it costs to travel repeatedly across the country to get in front of coaches outside of our region. I thought I was hurting my daughter by not letting her play in the ENCL, but it does not appear that I am based on the initial reports stated at the beginning of this chain posting. So, as you can see, researching the ENCL and gathering information shows that I have been watching and learning (gaining knowlege) about the program before sinking my money into it, and therefore, does not make me ignorant. You, on the other hand, appear to be ignorant of the fact that players are getting the same results whether or not they play in the ENCL or another club league.
CITG the ecnl weekend in San Antonio was a 300.00 round trip flight. Toss in the split for the hotel and some food and spending money it was about 400.00. Besides the fact the kids had a great time off the field. San Antonio is a nice place. They have been to the Alamo and to see what a real rodeo is. Played in front of alot of college coaches. Pretty cheap for that trip if you ask me.
Cesa does not force you to go to every event. You do not like cesa or sc utd so i guess you play in the sc state league. I guess that is alot cheaper. I do not disagree with you that club soccer is over priced.
Yes they do force you to go to every event. Its called peer force. Also not enough man power in this state to fill the older age groups.Start dragging from other states and taking players who can't make their own club. You should yell at ECNL who forces clubs to play every age group or none at all. Plus its sucks for some families who can't travel to every event. Paying all that money and you can't watch your child play.There is enough competition in the tri state area to have great games and coaches can watch.But you are not going to have enough players to field a team to play in a five hour radius and a ecnl team. Rock and a hard place. You can always try college camps. Worked for some
Whatever, No one has ever made us go to every event. As a matter of fact after 8 years in the Orlando area over the Christmas holidays we skipped the ECNL event there this past year. It was just time to stay home and enjoy the holidays.
You are exacly right on the cost preventing some from attending their kids games. I did not go to San Antonio or Arizona and i sure didnt make the bus trip to Michigan. Some of it was because of work and some was because of money.
I think no matter the cost or league ( ecnl,region III, sc league) Each parent and player has to sit down and decide what is best for their kid. My two daughters played on a few different club teams and every year just like this year we will look at cost,training and a few other things when making a decision. On the other hand people do not need to worry about how much others are spending. If they have it and they want to spend then more power to them.
I think we forget that the kids playing in ecnl or academy is wanting the chance to play somewhere other than in state. ECNL and Academy gives them the exsposure to do that. They may end up playing in their own state anyways but atleast they had a chance.
Does anyone have any hard facts regarding SC women soccer players regarding number of players that went on to play college soccer before ECNL participation. I looked at Furman's rosters 2005 to 2010 and they only had one or two SC players mainly from Columbia. Is the ECNL, premier etc experience having an effect that more SC women are going on to play soccer in college? It also may be allowing females to get an understanding earlier on the commitment and intensity of college soccer. If they don't like giving up some portion of their high school social life for the intensity of travel for ECNL, then they likely won't enjoy being a college soccer player. The nice thing about SC now is everyone has a choice. If ECNL isn't right for your player or family then don't participate. If it is, and your player has the interest and skills then do it.
Bottom line is, if your good athlete / soccer player they will find you. I know 3 girls who left CESA after their junior year. 2 are playing D1 at Gardner Webb, they played with my daughter and a couple others who left CESA premier after their junior year to play for Tri County Soccer in Piedmont. Yes, Piedmont,SC.(not many college coaches coming to Piedmont,SC) and they are a very big part of their college program. Another didn't play club soccer at all her senior year,she only played HS soccer for a very good HS soccer program her senior year. She not only contributes to Presbyterians college program, she made the Big South all-freshman team. The Big South is not the ACC, but it is at the same level or higher as the SOCON and other colleges on the list. So you can play for any club in the state and not have to travel all over the country to have a college coach look at you.
I just looked at the stats for Gardner Webb last season. 26 players made appearances in the 19 game season. One of the players mentioned above did play in all 19, I believe as a midfielder. She took 7 shots and scored 2 goals with 0 assists. The other appeared in 7 games. They won 6 of their 19 games.
Presbyterian had 4 wins in 19 matches. The player mentioned above started 18 games scoring 3 goals with 3 assists.
On another note, I know that this conversation has gone more towards college exposure. But I've always been told that the competition is the main reason for playing in the ECNL. I believe I may have even made the point on here before about CASL and CSA putting their 2nd teams in last years premier league at U-15 while their top teams played in ECNL. Regardless of where you go to play in college or how much money you get (or don't get), how would you prepare? By playing CASL's top team twice, home and away? Or by playing their 2nd team once? Would you play 8-9 games in the premier league plus tournaments? Or 16 games in the ECNL plus national events? As stated before by many others, the choice is clearly up to the individual. Both are available in SC depending on which club you play for. And yes, the state-wide league and HS are certainly options as well when preparing for a college career.
Very true gbdawgs. You don't need to play top club soccer or ECNL to have a college coach look at you. It certainly helps, and of course, the players you are talking about played top level CESA until they were U18. That's may have been part of why they were good and how they were seen. But as has been pointed out, it certainly isn't for everyone.
But if the player has the drive and wants to maximize their options, ECNL is the obvious path.
It will be interesting to see how things change as ECNL progresses. The ECNL is only entering it's fourth year. As of now, I think the rising 18s have 8 commits, only two in SC, both of those in D1, one in the SEC. I think the rest are out of state.
How does that compare to prior years? Are we seeing a change or is it similar?
1. Not to argue against the ECNL experience (my daughter also enjoyed her's), but to make a technical point...
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...At our last ECNL game in Sanford FL, there were over 70 coaches watching our girls perform. It's been a while since I've seen that number of coaches roaming the sidelines at a Premier game.
...Do Premier league games usually have coaches from the University of Pennsylvania, University of Richmond, and Columbus State University in attendance? I know the ECNL events did.
Comparison of coaches' attendance at ECNL events with Premier league games may be apples and oranges. Better comparison (my opinion) would be Sanford ECNL attendance compared to Disney, and Premier league game attendance to ECNL league game attendance. I really don't know, but were 70 coaches including UPenn and Richmond at MeSA for your ECNL league games with Atlanta and Concorde? (BTW, congrats to the player going to UPenn, absolutely incredible school but $50k+/yr Ivy League... no athletic scholarships. Obviously matches her formidable performance on the field with similar performance in the classroom. Always a winning combination.)
2. ECNL vs. Premier League? Been down that road before maybe a little too often, so I thought I'd leave the thread by quoting an excerpt from what I thought was a pretty good interview with Coach Hyslop by Soccer America regarding the recent accomplishments of Mr. Velasquez at Real Salt Lake. I don't think the strategies for player development are necessarily gender specific, so feel free to substitute "ECNL" for "Academy" as you read...
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... but when Hyslop hears talk that the only pathway to soccer success lies with the Development Academy, or that certain college coaches turn away from evaluating players based on what league they compete in, he points to Velasquez as a reminder that players “get where they want to go in a variety of ways.”
“I think the Academy is a viable, great option, but at the same time, we’re also providing provide [sic] opportunities and developing players,” says Hyslop. “There’s no cookie-cutter guaranteed way to do that. I certainly don’t have all the answers. With the size of the country, it’s inevitable there’s going to be different avenues to reach a goal.”
Hyslop believes youth soccer, with the rise of the Development Academy and its increased influence -- which includes discouraging of high school play -- is at a crossroads.
“It’s not about Sebastian Velasquez,” he says. “It’s not about Carolina Elite Academy. It’s not necessarily about the USSF Academy. It’s really about taking a look and asking can we make sure we develop every possible player in this country? There’s more than one way to do it.
“We have to decide, are we going recognize everybody? Or are we only going to recognize some?
“It makes good sense to cast the net far and wide.”
The complete text of the Soccer America article can be read at...
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/46063/different-paths-to-stardom-sebastians-story.html
Now, Sebastion Velasquez is a truly gifted player as is his teammate at RSL, Enzo Martinez. The fact that in the same year one was drafted from a junior college, Spartanburg Methodist, and the other from UNC tends to further support the point Coach Hyslop is making in the article... that players "get where they want to go in a variety of ways.”
The point from the article that most caught my attention and agreement was... "It’s really about taking a look and asking can we make sure we develop every possible player in this country? There’s more than one way to do it."
Delta, The million dollar question is ....
During the delightful recruiting wars that manifest throughout Tryouts, is this the same song and dance parents of potential players will hear?
This applies to all clubs and programs.
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I just looked at the stats for Gardner Webb last season. 26 players made appearances in the 19 game season. One of the players mentioned above did play in all 19, I believe as a midfielder. She took 7 shots and scored 2 goals with 0 assists. The other appeared in 7 games. They won 6 of their 19 games.
Presbyterian had 4 wins in 19 matches. The player mentioned above started 18 games scoring 3 goals with 3 assists.
On another note, I know that this conversation has gone more towards college exposure. But I've always been told that the competition is the main reason for playing in the ECNL. I believe I may have even made the point on here before about CASL and CSA putting their 2nd teams in last years premier league at U-15 while their top teams played in ECNL. Regardless of where you go to play in college or how much money you get (or don't get), how would you prepare? By playing CASL's top team twice, home and away? Or by playing their 2nd team once? Would you play 8-9 games in the premier league plus tournaments? Or 16 games in the ECNL plus national events? As stated before by many others, the choice is clearly up to the individual. Both are available in SC depending on which club you play for. And yes, the state-wide league and HS are certainly options as well when preparing for a college career.
For just an average "everyday" type of parent, Harry sure does seem to know a lot. Hmmmmm...
DJ Harry spinning again
You keep bashing RPL and how low the competition is, but all your teams played in it this past year. You keep bringing up the CASL's and CSA's second teams and how mediocre those must be since they are not their top choice kids, and yet your ECNL team managed a 4-0 loss and 1-1 tie when you played them. Everyone loves great competition, but for you to say that there isn't enough of it in any other league but the one you are a member of is a slight stretch.
I will be honest in saying that the ecnl B league is not much better than the region III league. You have the top few teams in ecnl B that are real good just like you have Fla teams in region III that are real good. The difference is that in ecnl B you have alot more middle of the road teams and you play more games.
Questoin? How many times have the girls won the region III League.
The cost of all kids extra curricular activities is expensive. Go talk to a parent who's kid does Dance, Beauty padgets, Baseball, Travel Volleyball. It is all expensive. I don't see CESA twisting any arms to get players to play. I have been on both sides of the street one who played and left her senior year to play for another club as her choice. And I supported that decision. I have another playing ECNL and loves it. And I support that. I've been here since the old Challenge & classic leagues 10 years ago through the Premier league and now the ECNL. I hate the expenses but I would not trade the soccer weekends with my kids for nothing. Some people choose to do other sports or the college football weekends. I'm sure they would not trade those experiences either. If you don't want to play ECNL.......don't. And that's OK.
Amen to that hobo
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I just looked at the stats for Gardner Webb last season. 26 players made appearances in the 19 game season. One of the players mentioned above did play in all 19, I believe as a midfielder. She took 7 shots and scored 2 goals with 0 assists. The other appeared in 7 games. They won 6 of their 19 games.
Presbyterian had 4 wins in 19 matches. The player mentioned above started 18 games scoring 3 goals with 3 assists.
Is Harry "dissing" some of his Club's former players?
I read it that way. If so, not very classy.
If I am wrong, my apologies. 
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Whatever, No one has ever made us go to every event. As a matter of fact after 8 years in the Orlando area over the Christmas holidays we skipped the ECNL event there this past year. It was just time to stay home and enjoy the holidays.
So it took you 8 years to get tired of going to Orlando???
You are "hardheaded"!
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The nice thing about SC now is everyone has a choice.
Swame, how can you call it a choice?
You were on a Premier team, they told you it was now in ECNL.
You were told where you would go, when to go, what to pay and when to pay.
You were also initially told there would be no ECNL for U18.
Then you were told it would be.
I don't call that a choice, I call that a command.
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The nice thing about SC now is everyone has a choice.
Swame, how can you call it a choice?
You were on a Premier team, they told you it was now in ECNL.
You were told where you would go, when to go, what to pay and when to pay.
You were also initially told there would be no ECNL for U18.
Then you were told it would be.
I don't call that a choice, I call that a command.
Then go to another club. Problem solved.
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Whatever, No one has ever made us go to every event. As a matter of fact after 8 years in the Orlando area over the Christmas holidays we skipped the ECNL event there this past year. It was just time to stay home and enjoy the holidays.
So it took you 8 years to get tired of going to Orlando???
You are "hardheaded"!
Who could get tired of Orlando. It is the land of Mickey.
In a nutshell this is simply all about Clubs / Programs trying to outsell one another. CESA vs. SCUFC, USYS vs. US Club vs. USSF.
Take the time to find out why some of these 'leagues' have been formed and you will understand the above.
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I just looked at the stats for Gardner Webb last season. 26 players made appearances in the 19 game season. One of the players mentioned above did play in all 19, I believe as a midfielder. She took 7 shots and scored 2 goals with 0 assists. The other appeared in 7 games. They won 6 of their 19 games.
Presbyterian had 4 wins in 19 matches. The player mentioned above started 18 games scoring 3 goals with 3 assists.
On another note, I know that this conversation has gone more towards college exposure. But I've always been told that the competition is the main reason for playing in the ECNL. I believe I may have even made the point on here before about CASL and CSA putting their 2nd teams in last years premier league at U-15 while their top teams played in ECNL. Regardless of where you go to play in college or how much money you get (or don't get), how would you prepare? By playing CASL's top team twice, home and away? Or by playing their 2nd team once? Would you play 8-9 games in the premier league plus tournaments? Or 16 games in the ECNL plus national events? As stated before by many others, the choice is clearly up to the individual. Both are available in SC depending on which club you play for. And yes, the state-wide league and HS are certainly options as well when preparing for a college career.
For just an average "everyday" type of parent, Harry sure does seem to know a lot. Hmmmmm...
Why? Because I can look up stats from a college team or find an old schedule or two and form opinions? I'd hope that the average everyday parent could do that. If not, then there are lots of on here that are not average everyday parents. But rather, there are lots of us who seem to know everything about everything.
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I just looked at the stats for Gardner Webb last season. 26 players made appearances in the 19 game season. One of the players mentioned above did play in all 19, I believe as a midfielder. She took 7 shots and scored 2 goals with 0 assists. The other appeared in 7 games. They won 6 of their 19 games.
Presbyterian had 4 wins in 19 matches. The player mentioned above started 18 games scoring 3 goals with 3 assists.
Is Harry "dissing" some of his Club's former players?
I read it that way. If so, not very classy.
If I am wrong, my apologies.
Apology accepted. Also, I was under the impression that two of them weren't from the same club as I am but were from TCSC and the other was a high school player. Either way, no "dissing", just reporting another perspective backed up by statistics. To say that someone played in every game for a school in a college season and scored goals couldn't be a "diss".
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DJ Harry spinning again You keep bashing RPL and how low the competition is, but all your teams played in it this past year. You keep bringing up the CASL's and CSA's second teams and how mediocre those must be since they are not their top choice kids, and yet your ECNL team managed a 4-0 loss and 1-1 tie when you played them. Everyone loves great competition, but for you to say that there isn't enough of it in any other league but the one you are a member of is a slight stretch.
I don't think that I ever said that there wasn't enough competition or that anyone was "mediocre". I believe I said that with the two leagues you could choose between playing the second team once, or playing the first team twice. I'll go back and read it again and see if that's really what I said, but I think it is.
I'll also look to see where I "bashed" a league. I think this started out with a statement of how expensive $1,300 for ECNL was. I just wanted to see how people felt about paying $1,380 for PL.
gbdawgs, just a technical point...
About the 2 players at Gardner Webb who left CESA after junior year, I believe they already had commitments in hand before they left. One as member of Challenge team (1st of '92 CESA girls to commit), other as member of Premier team.
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gbdawgs, just a technical point...
About the 2 players at Gardner Webb who left CESA after junior year, I believe they already had commitments in hand before they left. One as member of Challenge team (1st of '92 CESA girls to commit), other as member of Premier team.
I minor technicality, although it does negate 100% of his point 
Not 100%, if gbdawgs' point was ECNL at CESA isn't the only path to player development as well as exposure to college coaches.
I noted one of the two was a member of the Challenge team. The first '92 CESA player to commit to a college offer (D1 at that) spent her club career on the Challenge team playing in the State Challenge League. She also participated as a member of the '93 SC ODP team every year eligible. His point is in tact.
I just pointed out the commitments were made before the players left for TCSC.
Now, there was another '92 player who also left CESA after her junior year as a member of the Challenge team, also spending her club career in the State Challenge League and not a '93 SC ODP participant, who played D1 at USC Upstate this past Fall. I believe she, too, went to TCSC for u-18. She may have committed after the move to TCSC. Not sure.
Guys, the bottom line is this- players were developing and getting offers to play in college, long before the ECNL existed.
To have to travel across the country to play "the best competition", when most of the players end up playing college within 2-3 states, and really most in their state, it is ridiculous.
As long as many of you refuse to question this, it will exist and get even more ridiculous.
That's my beef. If you question anything related to what you are paying for, World War III breaks out.
Remember, YOU are the customer.
I would question the rules concerning substituting in ECNL games. Is there a new rule that once a player is subbed, they cannot re-enter a game? If so, then is it worthwhile? What if a team has 20 players? What if guest players from other clubs play in events? How will this effect playing time and one's chance to play in front of college coaches? or this not the substitution rule for the 2012-13 season? Just thinking this is some information that should be clear before deciding what is best.
Thanks Dog for clarifying that for Jak. Just saying if your good enough they'll find you no matter who you're playing for.
I agree. However, I do think if all our daughters did for the last 12 years was play 1v1 in the backyard they might be a bit more difficult to find regardless of the skills they might develop. If being found is one of a player's goals, moving out of the backyard might be one way to improve the odds. How far she moves out the backyard should be a matter of the player's desire and the parents' ability/willingness to support the move.
DeltaDog/gbdawgs - I do understand the point that, if you are good enough, you will find options whether you play ECNL or not. I don't think any one has ever stated otherwise but, if they have, I'd disagreee with them.
If that was the point gbdawgs was making, I'm confused why players who where playing in ECNL when they committed was referenced? Not exactly a logical way to make that point???
Bomber and gbdawgs - While I agree that you don't need to play ECNL to get options, it's a question of the number of options and where those options are located. ECNL can allow a girl to maximize her options.
Of course there might be that once in a lifetime phenom, but we're talking about the other 99.999999% of the girls. If a player wants options outside of the state, then leagues like ECNL are very important. If a player wants options at top in state D1 schools like USC or Clemson, then playing against the best competition in front of college coaches is important. Finally, unrelated to recruiting, if a player is driven to become the best player they can be, then leagues like the ECNL are very important as well.
So as has been stated, ECNL isn't for everyone. But if a girl wants options outside of a small radius of where she lives, if she wants to maximize those options both in and outside of that radius, or if she is simply so driven that she wants to reach her maximum soccer potential, then ECNL is a very logical choice.
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I would question the rules concerning substituting in ECNL games. Is there a new rule that once a player is subbed, they cannot re-enter a game? If so, then is it worthwhile? What if a team has 20 players? What if guest players from other clubs play in events? How will this effect playing time and one's chance to play in front of college coaches? or this not the substitution rule for the 2012-13 season? Just thinking this is some information that should be clear before deciding what is best.
From what i understand it may that way this year. Once you come out you are out for the rest of the game. Maybe that will change before the year starts.
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Finally, unrelated to recruiting, if a player is driven to become the best player they can be, then leagues like the ECNL are very important as well.
So as has been stated, ECNL isn't for everyone. But if a girl wants options outside of a small radius of where she lives, if she wants to maximize those options both in and outside of that radius, or if she is simply so driven that she wants to reach her maximum soccer potential, then ECNL is a very logical choice.
I would say even if they want options inside the state or tri-state area, they need to take advantage of several different options available. If my daughter only played CESA/Premier/ECNL she would not likely had the level of offers to play in college. She learned good defensive skills, teamwork and conditioning with CESA/ECNL. She actually improved her dribbling, shooting, one on one in highschool as well as got the feel of a team with different ages and changing year after year - similar to college. She learned her attacking from the back and different formations initially from a coach at ODP and was exposed to several different college coaches. She became a better player by being in several different soccer environments. ECNL did provide exposure and offers outside the state - NE, midwest, SE but the interesting point when she played in the snow at an ECNL event, she made her decision that she wanted to stay in the SE. Prior to that she was thinking about the NE. We are happy because it means we can catch most of her games. She might not have made that decision if she hadn't experienced playing in the different areas of the country. In the end, I hope the leagues don't get mutually exclusive because there are different benefits to all of them in maximizing a players ability. One path ECNL, In-State league, ODP, or high school does not offer all the benefits, nor will it likely be able to in the future. Then you get into the time and money which I think is Bombers main complaint/issue. That really becomes a personal decision of where/what you want to invest in. Some investments pay off, some don't. Some players get athletic scholarships and/or opportunities to go to a college they may not have been able to get in to without soccer and it was considered a good investment. Some don't and if it wasn't a pleasant experience, then it probably seems like it was a waste of money. I would encourage any player that really loves the game to try and get involved in as many different soccer environments they can but careful not to start too early because it can burn a young player out. Its not for everyone.
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To have to travel across the country to play "the best competition", when most of the players end up playing college within 2-3 states, and really most in their state, it is ridiculous.
This statement really does not make sense to me. What does playing the best competition have to do with staying close to home to play soccer. Just becuase a child, parent, or coach wants to test their skills against the best in the country does not mean they have to go to school far away. Mayby if they didn't play the best teams they would not even get the opportunity to play college anywhere. Again if you don't like playing on a traveling team don't. And nobody will mind. But don't "diss" other people for chosing to do so. Hell I complain every time I fill up my Tundra up, getting 14 miles to the gallon. But I still drive it.
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If that was the point gbdawgs was making, I'm confused why players who where playing in ECNL when they committed was referenced? Not exactly a logical way to make that point???
The 1st '92 CESA player to commit (GW) that moved to TCSC with commitment in hand never played ECNL or R3PLE, she played State league entire club career. The '92 CESA player playing at USC Upstate never played ECNL or R3PLE, she played State league entire club career. (Different thread, but not getting the opportunity to play in those leagues even as guest at an ECNL event may have something to do with why they left for senior year. You'd have to ask them.)
Seems there may be a misperception out there needing clarification. Saying a girl is playing select level soccer at CESA does not necessarily mean the girl is playing in ECNL or Premier leagues.
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Bomber and gbdawgs - While I agree that you don't need to play ECNL to get options, it's a question of the number of options and where those options are located. ECNL can allow a girl to maximize her options.
That's why I mentioned maybe moving out of the backyard.
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... then leagues like ECNL are very important.
I think "like" is operative and goes to the heart of the debate here. Some propose/agree that Premier league + major tournaments with regards to exposure and level of competition is "like" ECNL. Some do not agree. Those who agree begin comparing costs.
Look on the bright side, Hobo. At least you're not having to fill up that there RV.
(I spent more as much on gas and hotel this past Fall following 2 college teams as I did following 2 R3PLE/ECNL club teams.)
scwame... I wish I could be that concise. Pretty much sums it all up.
I believe only 18 can be rostered in a game, with seven substotitions allowed. I also think that at U14 and U15 a substituted player can't come back in the half, but can return in the second half. Once substituted in the second half, they can't come back for the rest of the game.
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I believe only 18 can be rostered in a game, with seven substotitions allowed. I also think that at U14 and U15 a substituted player can't come back in the half, but can return in the second half. Once substituted in the second half, they can't come back for the rest of the game.
From what i was told that may be going to change this year. Once you are subbed for your day will be done. Cant re enter.
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I believe only 18 can be rostered in a game, with seven substotitions allowed. I also think that at U14 and U15 a substituted player can't come back in the half, but can return in the second half. Once substituted in the second half, they can't come back for the rest of the game.
From what i was told that may be going to change this year. Once you are subbed for your day will be done. Cant re enter.
I hope that doesn't happen at the younger ages. I don't see it being changed for the older players, but I do hope to see it stay the same for younger ones.
MT4ME im not sure if ecnl is doing it for all ages or not. I assume they would.
There's a logical fallacy afoot in this thread (in the nature of cum hoc, ergo propter hoc). The assertion that kids (boys or girls) who play at the highest level (and travel extensively to do so) and end up playing college in-state or in the SE could have done so without the high level club play is not a logical conclusion. The colleges they attend recruit nationally. To say that they would necessarily have been recruited anyway simply isn't accurate. Some number of them - maybe. The majority - highly doubtful.
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Interesting. All that extra money for national exposure and the majority are not going any farther than they would from playing on a local level. I don't think my daughter is missing out on anything (my personal opinion).
The post that started it all. 8 pages, some 80 posts, will it ever end???
Not as long as parents are more concerned with "exposure" than every other positive aspect of the club soccer experience.'
Anybody know the name of the first soccer parent who went to their club DOC and said "My daughter needs more. The Region Premier League and three tournaments a year at CASL, Disney and the Surf Cup are not enough."?
Was it somebody from Vardar? Pennsylvania Strikers? Dallas Texans? Concorde Fire?
Wouldn't you like to get that father in a room and have a "closed-door conversation" with him?
I'm not going to blame CESA for starting the fire. They got caught up in the arms race.
i think the ecnl is a great thing. i think anything that gets a young man or woman the opportunity to be recognized for their hard work and accomplishments is a good thing. but do you really, really believe that the "best" sc has to offer will truly represented at each age level?
If that were to occur, would not ECNL have to invite participants by team and not by club?
I believe CESA had a team in ECNL that lost 6-0 in their State Cup. Obviously not even the best team in their state, but representing their club in ECNL play.
Soccer mom attacks 6 people during soccer game in Sweden. Fighting went on after the game and several people arrested . She was upset at a foul called on a relative.I didn't know ECNL traveled that far.
It's all about choices. Each family has the right to decide what they want to do. I think having choices is wonderful after all this is America. It's each family's resources, time and energy. No one is forcing them to do anytime but don't be mad if someone else decides to so something else for their child. Can people really be that petty that they would not want ECNL, Academy or whatever else that is available because they don't want to do it or think it cost too much. That's your decision which is totally ok but let other people make theirs without you trying to diminish it.
My apologies to Bomber …
I believe a very important point has been ignored.
The fact that we have choices is great and I am happy it makes everyone warm and fuzzy. But it is the process that results in your 'choice' is what many have failed to acknowledge ...
In other words, did Club XYZ decide to compete in League ABC for the benefit of your child, or was it a marketing ploy to one up the club next door? How many times is League ABC used by Club XYZ to recruit a parent, um sorry, a player?
There is nothing warm and fuzzy about a coach's ego!
I don't believe for a minute that joining ECNL was a marketing ploy for CESA. They saw what could be the future of girl's elite soccer and took a leap of faith. They got in at the beginning, and ECNL has changed, in my opinion for the better, each year. The conference play resembles the Premier League, although many of the top ranked teams from any age group are from ECNL clubs and aren't participating in the PL any longer. While that may be seen as a negative, I actually see it as a positive for good teams that would not have previously qualified to play at the level of the Premier League, but now have a spot in the PL. So, ECNL is actually creating opportunities for girls on other teams as well
There are probably about 100 families (players from this year) in SC that know the current reality of ECNL. Because this was the first year for conference play, I would say those that have the best read on ECNL are those that had players on a team this year (although the teams did play ECNL and Premier League, so this year is different than future years where, it's my understanding, that the teams will play only in the ECNL league. However, don't hold me to this since I haven't heard for sure one way or the other). If you think that ECNL is something you would like to know more about, talk to a family that has experienced the league. Let them tell you the positives and the negatives.
ECNL is changing women's soccer. It is more and more becoming the league where the top clubs are playing (that's just reality. Of course, there are good clubs that aren't playing ECNL, but most of the top clubs are in the league). Because the league is club-based and not team-based, there is often a team or two within most ECNL clubs that is struggling. But, don't use those teams to define the league. Over time those teams could well improve because of the consistent high level of competition, and because the teams will attract players who want to play at this level. Remember, this is the first year of conference play, so judging the league based on prior years won't give you a real picture of the ECNL today.
As you can tell, I like ECNL, and my child likes it. It is a good fit for her at this time. Things could change, and if she decides that she no longer wants to play soccer at this level, she won't try out for the ECNL team. I am not a brainwashed parent who is simply drinking the Kool-aid, I have seen it with my own eyes. I don't think it is for every player, and may not even be for a very good player. It takes commitment and sacrifice to be on an ECNL (and a Premier League) team. They will miss school football games, dances and time with their friends. But, that's likely true with any club traveling team, regardless the sport.
So, if you and your child are thinking about trying out for ECNL, talk to those parents who actually have players who played this year. Or, call CESA and talk with one of the ECNL coaches. Don't form your opinion based information from a forum. Certainly, some of those providing information have played ECNL, but perhaps they played that first year, and didn't like the experience. Others making comments may have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. They don't like ECNL because it is a change, not because they really know much about the league or have any personal experience with it. It is a league that has evolved, and will continue to evolve. So, if you are thinking about trying your daughter out for ECNL, give yourself and your child the benefit of getting the information you need to make an informed decision that is in your child's best interest.
Article on ECNL. Lot's of good information about much of what has been talked about in this thread.
http://www.potomacsoccerwire.com/news/458/20591
OK MT4ME since you know so much …
Would CESA accept an Academy 'Franchise' if it were offered to them tomorrow?
Would SCUFC accept an ECNL 'Franchise" if it were offered to them tomorrow?
I am not necessarily after the yes or no, but the why??
Think about it …
Whether you like it or not, it is first and foremost a business ($$$) decision!
I believe SC United has applied for ECNL, so the answer would probably be yes to that. I have no real idea about Academy since I know little about it.
I never said I know so much, just that I have experience with ECNL. I am encouraging people to get with those who have first hand experience with ECNL to find the answers to their questions rather than listening to those on a soccer forum who may not have any experience with that.
Of course it's a business decision. No club wants to take on a losing proposition. But, from what it seems you said, it is all about money. I'm not that cynical. I do believe that CESA came to the ECNL because they wanted to be part of something they felt would elevate women's soccer. They were right about the league. Ultimately, it has given an option to those who are serious soccer players.
As mustang said, it's an option. If it's not one for your child, then don't try out. No need to criticize those who feel differently.
It is amazing in this forum, if anyone questions, or has a differing idea, they are labeled as "being critical".
Perhaps they are being objective.
After all, is not the purpose of this forum, for many to express their thoughts and ideas?
If you think your kid will get the best training at a club with ecnl and you want to spend the money then do it. You do get more exposure with the ecnl.If the best training is with a rec team then do that. Its all about choice. I can tell you this from mine playing ecnl A league and the B league. There is a big difference.The B league is not much better than Region III league. You just have alot more teams and you do get to play more games.At the league games you would be lucky if a college coach showed up. Maybe a local college coach. Remember that ecnl league and college soccer is going on at the same time. Coaches are probably a little short on time. The ecnl events are a different story. No matter what the age there are coaches lining up on the sidelines. The older ages do get more but they are all over.
Remember you pay for training so make sure it is worth it.
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It is amazing in this forum, if anyone questions, or has a differing idea, they are labeled as "being critical".
Perhaps they are being objective.
After all, is not the purpose of this forum, for many to express their thoughts and ideas?
And, by the same token, those who support a program are labeled as brainwashed or "drinking the CESA kool-aid". Perhaps they are being objective as well.
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It is amazing in this forum, if anyone questions, or has a differing idea, they are labeled as "being critical".
Perhaps they are being objective.
After all, is not the purpose of this forum, for many to express their thoughts and ideas?
And, by the same token, those who support a program are labeled as brainwashed or "drinking the CESA kool-aid". Perhaps they are being objective as well.
Maybe they are objectively brainwashed. 
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It is amazing in this forum, if anyone questions, or has a differing idea, they are labeled as "being critical".
Perhaps they are being objective.
After all, is not the purpose of this forum, for many to express their thoughts and ideas?
And, by the same token, those who support a program are labeled as brainwashed or "drinking the CESA kool-aid". Perhaps they are being objective as well.
Does that mean being brainwashed with actual information and experience?
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It is amazing in this forum, if anyone questions, or has a differing idea, they are labeled as "being critical".
Perhaps they are being objective.
After all, is not the purpose of this forum, for many to express their thoughts and ideas?
And, by the same token, those who support a program are labeled as brainwashed or "drinking the CESA kool-aid". Perhaps they are being objective as well.
Does that mean being brainwashed with actual information and experience?
Yep This brainwashed, kool-aid drinker and her kid have had a great ECNL experience.
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It's all about choices. Each family has the right to decide what they want to do. I think having choices is wonderful after all this is America. It's each family's resources, time and energy. No one is forcing them to do anytime but don't be mad if someone else decides to so something else for their child. Can people really be that petty that they would not want ECNL, Academy or whatever else that is available because they don't want to do it or think it cost too much. That's your decision which is totally ok but let other people make theirs without you trying to diminish it.
It seems throughout this topic, many keep referring to choices.
But if you live in the Upstate and you want your daughter to play in the Upstate at the highest level, there is really no choice.
You have to play CESA Premier, part of the ECNL.
The Challenge teams really do not compare to the caliber of the Premier teams.
And as far as being seen by college coaches, ECNL is really it.
So, where is the choice?
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It's all about choices. Each family has the right to decide what they want to do. I think having choices is wonderful after all this is America. It's each family's resources, time and energy. No one is forcing them to do anytime but don't be mad if someone else decides to so something else for their child. Can people really be that petty that they would not want ECNL, Academy or whatever else that is available because they don't want to do it or think it cost too much. That's your decision which is totally ok but let other people make theirs without you trying to diminish it.
It seems throughout this topic, many keep referring to choices.
But if you live in the Upstate and you want your daughter to play in the Upstate at the highest level, there is really no choice.
You have to play CESA Premier, part of the ECNL.
The Challenge teams really do not compare to the caliber of the Premier teams.
And as far as being seen by college coaches, ECNL is really it.
So, where is the choice?
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It's all about choices. Each family has the right to decide what they want to do. I think having choices is wonderful after all this is America. It's each family's resources, time and energy. No one is forcing them to do anytime but don't be mad if someone else decides to so something else for their child. Can people really be that petty that they would not want ECNL, Academy or whatever else that is available because they don't want to do it or think it cost too much. That's your decision which is totally ok but let other people make theirs without you trying to diminish it.
It seems throughout this topic, many keep referring to choices.
But if you live in the Upstate and you want your daughter to play in the Upstate at the highest level, there is really no choice.
You have to play CESA Premier, part of the ECNL.
The Challenge teams really do not compare to the caliber of the Premier teams.
And as far as being seen by college coaches, ECNL is really it.
, where is the choice?
I just don't understand this comment. ECNL is where Cesa's top teams are playing. We don't have the choices that those in Atlanta or Charlotte may have (i.e. a club that has an ECNL and Premier team), but you do have the choice to travel outside the upstate to fSoind the level of competition you want if you don't want ECNL and feel the challenge teams don't offer enough (I am thinking you want a higher challenge play, but not ECNL).
ECNL is the place for those who can play at this level. It isn't for every elite player since some players don't have the desire to play at this level. Others and their families may not see how the travel can fit into their lives. That's fine. But, it is a very good choice for some girls. I am just thankful that CESA decided early on to join ECNL. To have this option in a state that has many fewer soccer players than the states that surround us, and in an area the size of Greenville is really amazing if you stop to consider it. Go look at the ECNL map and where most of the clubs are. There aren't many from an area of our size. So, as the parent of child that really wants to play college soccer, and who has the ability to play at the ECNL level, I am thankful CESA had the foresight to pursue this league.
MT4ME, do you think that your kid is getting good training?
It seemd to me that having 100 kids on one field for training each night made it tough to get the best training.Each team had its own little corner of the field and that was it.
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MT4ME, do you think that your kid is getting good training?
It seemd to me that having 100 kids on one field for training each night made it tough to get the best training.Each team had its own little corner of the field and that was it.
I do think my daughter has gotten very good training, and adequate field space hasn't been a problem. When she was younger, she had less field space, but now they have plenty. She has never been on a field with 100 players. But, she typically practices on fields with older players.
So you are saying that your daughter is on a ecnl team and has pleanty of space to practice. Must be the older team coached by Hyslop. I know our age was crowded and that was with open fields not being used.
Maybe we were at the right field on the right night, but yes we had room.
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Maybe we were at the right field on the right night, but yes we had room.
and never 100 players on one field.
let me ask this and i will read your answer sunday night when i get back in town.
what do you consider room? were you the only ones on the field or with another team? we had our team,half the coaches other team and 3 other teams out on the same upper field. Remember we had 19 players on our team. the training is not a knock on the coach because i honestly do not see how he could coach like that. i just think it watered down the training.
We weren't the only ones on the field. There was typically another select team. Again, maybe we were just on the right field at the right time.
Somewhere in here I read that ECNL is for those who can play at this level (not necessarily true) (remember this is club based) So to that I would have to disagree. The B bracket is not a true overall reflection of a high level of soccer.
Also, the upstate is not far from Georgia or North Carolina. Two states that have A bracket ECNL teams plus Region III teams. By playing club in those states a player could have access to their ODP programs. There are several clubs across SC that have Region III teams that are drivable from Greenville / Spartanburg. So, there are options.
Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
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Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
The current ECNL teams have played primarily in ECNL events over the last two to three years. Most have played in the Cesa Soccer Classic, although that wasn't possible this year because it was a Premier League weekend. Of course, up to this point, they have played in the State Cup (and done well).
As far as ECNL players who have gone to the Region 3 ODP camp, you could always go to the ECNL site and click on each player to see their soccer achievements. ODP in SC is a program that has struggled for some time now, so kids who could make it have decided not to participate.
Observer made the comment that anyone could play ECNL. I don't agree. That's like saying every jv player could play varsity. So, why not just have one big team? With that said, there are probably quite a few players out there who could play, but they or their parents have decided it's not the right fit for them. I also don't believe that most of our ECNL players at CESA need to seek out a Flight A team in GA or NC. How about we develop the ECNL teams with our local and our SC talent? We have some very good teams that are going to continue to get better.
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Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
The current ECNL teams have played primarily in ECNL events over the last two to three years. Most have played in the Cesa Soccer Classic, although that wasn't possible this year because it was a Premier League weekend. Of course, up to this point, they have played in the State Cup (and done well).
As far as ECNL players who have gone to the Region 3 ODP camp, you could always go to the ECNL site and click on each player to see their soccer achievements. ODP in SC is a program that has struggled for some time now, so kids who could make it have decided not to participate.
So, no major tournaments (I don't think CESA Classic would be considered major) and maybe a few players here and there still participating in Region III camp in Alabama.
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Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
The current ECNL teams have played primarily in ECNL events over the last two to three years. Most have played in the Cesa Soccer Classic, although that wasn't possible this year because it was a Premier League weekend. Of course, up to this point, they have played in the State Cup (and done well).
As far as ECNL players who have gone to the Region 3 ODP camp, you could always go to the ECNL site and click on each player to see their soccer achievements. ODP in SC is a program that has struggled for some time now, so kids who could make it have decided not to participate.
So, no major tournaments (I don't think CESA Classic would be considered major) and maybe a few players here and there still participating in Region III camp in Alabama.
I am not sure of your point. There is very good competition at the ECNL events, against some of the top clubs in the country. Are you saying the national events don't count because they aren't tournaments? I really don't see what you are getting at. As far as ODP goes, just look at the ODP rosters which are starting to come out. As much as the program would like to attract the top talent, it isn't, at least not now. It doesn't matter whether it's an ECNL or non-ECNL team, most are not sending their best players. I would love to see that change, because there is value to ODP, especially if the player has a good coach who is vested in the program.
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Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
The current ECNL teams have played primarily in ECNL events over the last two to three years. Most have played in the Cesa Soccer Classic, although that wasn't possible this year because it was a Premier League weekend. Of course, up to this point, they have played in the State Cup (and done well).
As far as ECNL players who have gone to the Region 3 ODP camp, you could always go to the ECNL site and click on each player to see their soccer achievements. ODP in SC is a program that has struggled for some time now, so kids who could make it have decided not to participate.
So, no major tournaments (I don't think CESA Classic would be considered major) and maybe a few players here and there still participating in Region III camp in Alabama.
I am not sure of your point. There is very good competition at the ECNL events, against some of the top clubs in the country. Are you saying the national events don't count because they aren't tournaments? I really don't see what you are getting at. As far as ODP goes, just look at the ODP rosters which are starting to come out. As much as the program would like to attract the top talent, it isn't, at least not now. It doesn't matter whether it's an ECNL or non-ECNL team, most are not sending their best players. I would love to see that change, because there is value to ODP, especially if the player has a good coach who is vested in the program.
Yes, ECNL events offer good competition, no argument. Major tournaments also offer good competition. What I'm trying to understand has to do with some claiming in this thread that ECNL events are the end-all for exposure to college coaches. If none of the current ECNL teams have played in a major open tournament the last 2-3 years, then how do those making the claims have the "experience", like you spoke of, to make comparisons and draw conclusions? My daughters have played in both ECNL events and open major tournaments, and I haven't seen enough of a difference in attendance by college coaches to say one venue is better than the other for exposure.
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Just out of curiosity, how many open major tournaments have the current CESA ECNL teams applied to and played in over the last 2-3 years? How many of the players on the current CESA ECNL rosters have attended Region III ODP camp?
The current ECNL teams have played primarily in ECNL events over the last two to three years. Most have played in the Cesa Soccer Classic, although that wasn't possible this year because it was a Premier League weekend. Of course, up to this point, they have played in the State Cup (and done well).
As far as ECNL players who have gone to the Region 3 ODP camp, you could always go to the ECNL site and click on each player to see their soccer achievements. ODP in SC is a program that has struggled for some time now, so kids who could make it have decided not to participate.
So, no major tournaments (I don't think CESA Classic would be considered major) and maybe a few players here and there still participating in Region III camp in Alabama.
I am not sure of your point. There is very good competition at the ECNL events, against some of the top clubs in the country. Are you saying the national events don't count because they aren't tournaments? I really don't see what you are getting at. As far as ODP goes, just look at the ODP rosters which are starting to come out. As much as the program would like to attract the top talent, it isn't, at least not now. It doesn't matter whether it's an ECNL or non-ECNL team, most are not sending their best players. I would love to see that change, because there is value to ODP, especially if the player has a good coach who is vested in the program.
Yes, ECNL events offer good competition, no argument. Major tournaments also offer good competition. What I'm trying to understand has to do with some claiming in this thread that ECNL events are the end-all for exposure to college coaches. If none of the current ECNL teams have played in a major open tournament the last 2-3 years, then how do those making the claims have the "experience", like you spoke of, to make comparisons and draw conclusions? My daughters have played in both ECNL events and open major tournaments, and I haven't seen enough of a difference in attendance by college coaches to say one venue is better than the other for exposure.
I never made the claim that ECNL is the end all to being seen by coaches. I don't happen to believe that ECNL is the only path to playing in college. So, as I said before, if you and your daughter think ECNL is a good fit for her and your family, try out for a CESA If not,try out for a non-ECNL team. It's a great option for girls who want to play in college. It's not the only option, but it is a very good one. It's all about choices, and it's a good that we have this choice in SC and in the upstate.
I said some here (I assume whose daughters play ECNL and no major tournaments) are making that claim about college exposure. I referenced your point about the significance of experience and am wondering how those making that claim, given no major tournament experience are able to make the comparison regarding exposure. I agree with you, either road can get you where you want to go. At CESA you can tryout for an ECNL team or a non-ECNL team.
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I said some here (I assume whose daughters play ECNL and no major tournaments) are making that claim about college exposure. I referenced your point about the significance of experience and am wondering how those making that claim, given no major tournament experience are able to make the comparison regarding exposure. I agree with you, either road can get you where you want to go. At CESA you can tryout for an ECNL team or a non-ECNL team.
I can only account for what I've said, and I've never made the claim that it's the only path to college, although I've said it is a good one. It's one I feel will get even better with time, but that is yet to be seen and no one can predict the future. I'm still wonder what reference about the significance of experience you are talking about. I can't find so I can't tell what was meant by it.
oh...
"I am encouraging people to get with those who have first hand experience with ECNL to find the answers to their questions rather than listening to those on a soccer forum who may not have any experience with that."
I figured that was good advice in either direction.
Nobody mentions training. Which is more important for development? Training or the name of the league? Do the acronyms really matter if the training is not there? Most teams I see in SC that qualify to play in these alphabet leagues 'improve' mostly through player recruitment ...
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Do the acronyms really matter if the training is not there?
My guess would be no. However, I do know from reading various interviews with Christian Lavers, current president of ECNL, that as an organization ECNL from the beginning has been active in developing guidelines for member clubs focusing on improving the training environment as well as opportunities for player development in general. Part of that philosophy is evident in the organization's goal to reduce total number of games played while increasing the quality of games and improving the training to game ratio. However, Lavers always points out that guidelines and recommendations regarding training and player development presented to the member clubs are not mandates, that the individual member clubs decide how/when recommended guidelines are adopted/incorporated at the local level.
So, ECNL is actively working to improve training, but one would have to consult with the local ECNL club to determine how it specifically may be embracing those recommendations for best practice.
Some excerpts from the ECNL "Member Club Standards and Guidelines" document found at the ECNL site...
http://usclubsoccer-eliteclubs.d4sportsclub.com/object.aspx?id=5&o=340781
"The ECNL recognizes that player development primarily occurs in the daily training environment... "
"I. Developmental Curriculum
The speed and quality of individual player development improves when the training curriculum for player development is systematically planned throughout the player’s entire youth career. As such, the ECNL encourages all ECNL Member Clubs to develop a standardized, developmentally appropriate training curriculum for each age group within the ECNL Member Club (the “Curriculum”). The Curriculum should include the technical, tactical, physical, and psychological standards and expectations for each age group. The ECNL will request submission of the Curriculum for the future season by each ECNL Member Club at the conclusion of each ECNL season, and will utilize the submissions to share best practices between the ECNL Member Clubs... "
Sorry, but I need to add that ECNL as an organization isn't unique in its endeavors to improve player development and the training environment. Every coach of a select team in SC is required to hold at least minimum licenses/certificates available through USSF or NSCAA (maybe others). Obtaining a license/certificate requires successful completion of courses designed to teach coaches effective methods of player development with regards to technical, tactical, physical and psychological components. Whether or not the education behind the licenses/certifications shows up in the training sessions and general player development delivered by a club will ultimately be the responsibility of the coaches and DOC's involved... regardless of the "acronym" hanging on the front gate.
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Nobody mentions training. Which is more important for development? Training or the name of the league? Do the acronyms really matter if the training is not there? Most teams I see in SC that qualify to play in these alphabet leagues 'improve' mostly through player recruitment ...
Reccos look back at my post. I did bring up the question about training. You will also see i wasnt happy with last years crowded training. Without looking back i think i did mention to find the best training.
I think the A or B that comes with the different leagues only determins how good of competition you face. The A league in ecnl is way better than the B. There are a couple of GA teams in the B that should be up in A. Other than that B is far behind the A in ecnl.
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I think the A or B that comes with the different leagues only determins how good of competition you face. The A league in ecnl is way better than the B. There are a couple of GA teams in the B that should be up in A. Other than that B is far behind the A in ecnl.
The B is far behind the A in ECNL? Let's look at some head to head results:
U-15 CESA is currently 22nd in B. CASL is 20th in A. CASL won 1-0 and tied 1-1 with CESA
U-16 CESA is currently 10th in B. Atlanta Fire is 10th in A. CESA lost 0-2 and tied 2-2. CASL is 22nd in A. Results were a 1-1 draw and 1-2 loss. CSA is currently 28th in A and they drew 1-1 with CESA in their first meeting. Their second meeting is in June.
U-17 CESA is currently 3rd in B. CASL is 3rd in A. They drew 2-2 and CESA lost 0-1 in their two meetings. Concorde is 6th in A. Results were 3-4 and 0-1. GSA is 20th in A. GSA beat CESA 4-1 and CESA beat GSA 3-0.
Those are just some of the crossover results involving CESA. I won't get back into my point about the advantage of playing all of these teams twice instead of playing some of the other NC and GA teams (some of them the club's 2nd teams) only once.
But I will touch on the point that someone brought up about going to 'Major' tournaments. I'm not even sure which ones are the 'major' tournaments anymore. I saw that a SC team went to Disney and played a team that was rated the 10th best team in East Pennsylvania and the 6th best team in Minnesota before being matched up in a consolation game with the 3rd best team from Kentucky. Those rankings are according to the Disney website and may either do a service or a disservice to those teams. There was another SC team that defeated the 5th best team in East NY, the 3rd team from MD and the 6th best team from MN before beating the 5th best team from UT in the final of one of the 11 division offered. Not to take anything away from these two teams, as I'm sure they played well, it just doesn't seem that Disney is what it used to be. I mean, there were 10 FL teams admitted in the U-17 age group and 16 FL teams admitted in the U-16s. Does anyone think that there are actually 10 'A' level teams in one age group in Florida? Not to mention 16?
I also saw where a team from NC who had 2 wins and 7 losses in the Premier League (without CASL, Charlotte, GSA, Atlanta Fire and Concorde) went to the Jefferson Cup and had 3 wins against a team from VA with a win percentage of 14%, a team from GA who won 5 of their last 22 games (3 of those wins in the previously mentioned Disney 'major' tournament), and a team rated 8th best in Maryland.
Again, not to take anything away from that team, but perhaps Jefferson Cup isn't what it was once cracked up to be. According to the Jefferson Cup, there appear to be 12 'A' level teams in U-16 Virginia and 15 'A' level Virginia teams at U-17.
For my two cents, I'd still rather play GSA's U-15s (#1 in ECNL 'A' bracket with 16-0-0 record) twice with one of those games being at home; and Atlanta Fire's U-16s (12-3-1 record in ECNL) twice with one of those games at home; and CASL's U-17s (13-0-4 in ECNL) twice with one of those games at home. Then of course, going to the national events for 9-12 more games extending the season into Jan, Feb, and even June instead of taking those months off. But again, just my two cents.
tournaments like PDA, CASL, Surf Cup, etc.
here's the u16 top bracket at Jefferson Cup a couple of months ago...
CONCORDE FIRE ELITE (GA)
FC DELCO '95'S ECNL (PAE)
FC VIRGINIA U16 ECNL (VA)
BRADDOCK ROAD YC BRYC 95 ELITE (VA)
BETHESDA SC FREEDOM 95/96 (MD)
RICHMOND STRIKERS SC ECNL (VA)
FREESTATE UNITED ECNL (FKA SAC UNITED PREMIER (MD)
PDA SLAMMERS (NJ)
The u-15 SCUMP team was in the top u-15 bracket, but unfortunately didn't get a chance at the u-15 ECNL teams entered. They were in the next bracket down.
I see where the U-15 bracket you're talking about was listed first. But I see that the Connecticut team in that bracket had 7 wins, 9 losses and 6 draws in their other games this year. The New Jersey team had 13 wins, 3 losses and 7 draws. And I think that the FC Bucks in that group actually are an ECNL team. At least they have the same coach as the ECNL team and have a bunch of ECNL games on their 'ranking' and history page. By the way, that ECNL team won that group by winning all 3 games and won the final. They gave up 1 goal in 4 games.
While the U-16 age group does have some brackets with ECNL teams, it also has McLean's 2nd team. There was also a NC team that went 4-4-1 in the Premier League. (again, that's the league without CASL, Charlotte, AFU, Concorde and GSA) That NC team had 3 wins in that tournament. Almost as many as they had in their whole Fall season. Also featured in the tournament was an NC team that was winless in the NC State Cup with an aggregate score of 2-10
The PDA tournament, is that the one over Memorial Day Weekend? With all the ECNL teams in the top bracket? And the other brackets featuring McLean's 2nd team at U-15 (again)? And in the U-16 bracket featuring the FL team that won 3 games in the Prem League finishing 7th out of 10? Is that the major PDA tournament you're referring to?
So, even more ECNL teams at JCup than I thought. Lot of ECNL teams in an open tournament that perhaps... "isn't what it was once cracked up to be."
And just for the record, the U-15 FC Bucks who went 4-0 in the 'top' bracket of Jefferson Cup have 4 wins, 5 losses and 3 draws in the 'B' bracket of ECNL
I'm wondering what all the ECNL teams are doing showing up in all these non-ECNL events? What possibly could be the attraction?
Oh Harry, since when did you start to worry about the time off for the kids? Was it after you played Rpl (9 games), ecnl conference games (11/12), state cup (3), Sanford (3) from sept to end of dec? And what about the extending of the season when they suppose to be off? Wasn't the Texas event in Feb? Isn't there one coming up in July? As my friend Mike Ditka says on ESPN - c'mon man! May want to get some sleep, big event tomorrow at your place
I'm not sure what you're asking. I've never been worried about time off. I'm a big fan of continuing to play in Jan and Feb instead of taking that time off to do fitness in Dec and Jan for the HS that doesn't start playing until late Feb/early Mar. And the ECNL conference games were 14 plus 4 nonconference games. Next year, it will be 18 conference games because they added 2 FL clubs to our conference. There were other clubs that applied again, but didn't get offered a spot. No big event for me tomorrow, but I do need to get some sleep.
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The PDA tournament, is that the one over Memorial Day Weekend? With all the ECNL teams in the top bracket? And the other brackets featuring McLean's 2nd team at U-15 (again)? And in the U-16 bracket featuring the FL team that won 3 games in the Prem League finishing 7th out of 10? Is that the major PDA tournament you're referring to?
Yep, that's the one, but I think that's not intended so much to be the "top" bracket, but rather the "ECNL" bracket as named. Apparently with PDA being an ECNL club it thoughtfully placed all of the ECNL teams in a seperate bracket so those teams can (from posted tournament rules)...
"5) SUBSTITUTIONS
ECNL teams will follow their league rules."
For the rest of the teams...
"Free substitution will be allowed in all age groups. However, teams may substitute only with the referee’s permission and only at the following times (including overtimes):
a) Prior to a throw-in, by either team
b) Prior to a goal kick, by either team
c) After a goal, by either team
d) After an injury on either team when the referee stops play
e) At halftime
f) On a caution, only the cautioned player may be substituted at that time."
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I'm not sure what you're asking. I've never been worried about time off. I'm a big fan of continuing to play in Jan and Feb instead of taking that time off to do fitness in Dec and Jan for the HS that doesn't start playing until late Feb/early Mar. And the ECNL conference games were 14 plus 4 nonconference games. Next year, it will be 18 conference games because they added 2 FL clubs to our conference.
Interesting philosophies given the ECNL president's remarks concerning reasons for creation of ECNL including "... too many total games being played and not enough high-quality, competitive matches. There was not enough emphasis on player development and training."
And again, from the ECNL "Member Club Standards and Guidelines" I referenced in an earlier post...
"The ECNL encourages all ECNL Member Clubs to provide two “off-season” breaks each year for the ECNL teams. Each break should consist of three to four weeks to allow physical, mental, and emotional rejuvenation. One break should be provided after the completion of the fall / winter competitive season, and one break should be provided after completion of the spring / summer competitive season."
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I'm not knocking ECNL, it provides excellent opportunities for both development and competition. However, I believe other opportunites for development and competition exist as well and should be noted. As Hyslop said in his interview, "It’s really about taking a look and asking can we make sure we develop every possible player in this country? There’s more than one way to do it."
So, if there was nothing on the club schedule whatsoever for the month of July and part of August, would that count as a "break" after the spring/summer? And if there was nothing on the schedule from the end of Feb. until the beginning of June, would that count as a "break" after the winter season?
Yes, I also agree with Hyslop regarding "more than one way to do it". In this case I believe I have been consistent in saying that you could either play the top teams twice, or the second teams once during your season. The choice is yours as to how you try to become a high level player. And in tournaments, you can apparently play PDA's top team in the ECNL bracket or you can play McLean's 2nd team and the teams from the bottom of the Premier League in the other brackets.
There is more than one option available. I'd be curious to see you at PDA or Surf Cup (you mentioned) as I thought you were against traveling so much. I may be wrong, it may not have been you that objected to much to the travel.
Harry the 16's played 20 games in the ecnl B league. That was alot more games than most teams in the league.They still have one remaining. It is a points per game format for where a team places. You take away a few of those extra games and cesa 16's do not finish that high up in the league.
If i read the league right the 20 games listed that gives them the 10 spot does not include games against the A bracket teams.Win ,loose or draw.
The teams they played in the B bracket avg a 19th finish.
The teams they beat in the B bracket avg a 22nd finish.
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So, if there was nothing on the club schedule whatsoever for the month of July and part of August, would that count as a "break" after the spring/summer? And if there was nothing on the schedule from the end of Feb. until the beginning of June, would that count as a "break" after the winter season?
Maybe, but realistically from the player perspective of a 3-4 week break from soccer that just isn't the case. Then again maybe they're getting a 3-4 week break away from the fields between HS season and the June lineup of ECNL and Southern Regional events.
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... And in tournaments, you can apparently play PDA's top team in the ECNL bracket or you can play McLean's 2nd team and the teams from the bottom of the Premier League in the other brackets.
Or, you can play PDA's top team in a non-ECNL top bracket. In the U-16 top bracket at JCup Braddock Road got 3 games vs. ECNL teams without having to be a part of ECNL. In the U-15 top bracket that's not a "bottom of the Premier League" team from SCUMP But, that's beside the point I was making about attending major tournaments. On second thought it may be exactly the point I was making about major tournaments.
Earlier I brought up major tournaments specifically regarding exposure to college coaches not level of competition. If as you say the level of competition isn't what it used to be at the open major tournaments like PDA, Disney, CASL, JCup (hard to believe you would consider quality down with all those ECNL teams entered), then the ECNL teams attending those non-National-ECNL-Events must not be there for the competition or player development. So unless they just like spending the money for no reason at all (not saying they don't), I can only think of one reason they would be there. Exposure to college coaches at the major tournaments in addition to the exposure they get through ECNL events. I'm not saying ECNL National Events don't draw a lot of coaches, they do. So do the major tournaments. I guess I should send a note of thanks to all those ECNL teams still attending the major tournaments for helping make my point. According to the JCup site the number of college coaches registered this year on both the boys and girls side set a record, and I haven't heard of a major exodus of coaches at PDA, Disney, etc.
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I'd be curious to see you at PDA or Surf Cup (you mentioned) as I thought you were against traveling so much. I may be wrong, it may not have been you that objected to much to the travel.
I have been to PDA but only once for ECNL (I drove, she flew). And when I got there and watched a U-16 game between D. Texans and BUSA with 70 (I counted) college coaches in attendance on the open non-ECNL side of the tournament I couldn't help but wonder why our club had not been attending all along. After a 6 year absence from CASL Shootout, my daughter finally got a chance to return at U-18. She took a look around and said, "We should have been coming here all along." Oh, I don't think I've ever been accused of being against traveling so much, although I will say I'm not particularly fond of having to purchase airline tickets to do so.
So, been to PDA. And Dallas (2x), D.C. (2x), Little Rock, Baton Rouge, Nashville, Houston, College Station, Orlando (?x), Sanford, Raleigh (5x), Knoxville, Atlanta (?x), Jacksonville (?x), Jekyll Island (?x), Greensboro (?x), Chattanooga, Norfolk, Birmingham, Montevallo (6x, 9weeks hotel), and probably some I've forgotten. Only a few of those trips were related to ECNL. Fortunately only a few involved airline tickets. I enjoyed making every trip to watch and support my daughters. Although both are now playing in college, the connections to their current coaches were made locally (one from a HS tournament). Even so, if asked tomorrow to start over... we'd be signed up and on the road again.
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Harry the 16's played 20 games in the ecnl B league. That was alot more games than most teams in the league.They still have one remaining. It is a points per game format for where a team places. You take away a few of those extra games and cesa 16's do not finish that high up in the league.
If i read the league right the 20 games listed that gives them the 10 spot does not include games against the A bracket teams.Win ,loose or draw.
The teams they played in the B bracket avg a 19th finish.
The teams they beat in the B bracket avg a 22nd finish.
I'll double check your math there. But in the meantime, to your point of being a huge difference between A and B bracket, can you comment on the results of the games between the 'B' bracket CESA teams when the played the 'A' bracket teams? Do ties and 1 goal losses support your case of the huge difference between the brackets?
Yes, I checked your math, and of the 6 games against 'A' bracket teams, the 16s had 3 losses and 3 draws. Which, again, doesn't seem to support a great difference in the A and B which is what I thought your point was.
"Maybe, but realistically from the player perspective of a 3-4 week break from soccer that just isn't the case. Then again maybe they're getting a 3-4 week break away from the fields between HS season and the June lineup of ECNL and Southern Regional events."
I'm confused, are you saying that no soccer in July wouldn't count as a 3-4 week break? For once, I'm not trying to be a smartxxx, you just lost me.
"If as you say the level of competition isn't what it used to be at the open major tournaments like PDA, Disney, CASL, JCup (hard to believe you would consider quality down with all those ECNL teams entered)"
I would only say that competition is down in the brackets where they are letting in clubs' second teams and admitting 15 teams from Florida in an age group and 16 teams from Virginia in an age group. We can argue about a lot of things, but surely you can agree with me that you'd be disappointed if you went down to Disney or up to Richmond with hopes of playing in some 'major' event and you got paired up with the 16th best team in Virginia.
And in all seriousness, I'm glad you enjoyed the travel. I've always said that when we are old and grey we should hope to look back at the time spent in cars, hotels, etc. with our children watching them do what they love and see it as time and money well spent.
Well, I wouldn't be disappointed in the pairing with the 16th team from VA if we lost. I'd figure the tournament paired me in a bracket that provided all the competition I could handle. If I blew out the teams in that bracket I might be a bit disappointed but probably no more than a top of A bracket ECNL team would be getting paired with 3 bottom half of B bracket ECNL teams in an ECNL event. Either way however, if the primary reason for attending the tournament was exposure to all the coaches that attend those tournaments I might still think the trip was worth it. As some of the college coaches I was talking to at PDA said, they really don't care who wins those games. They weren't there evaluating teams to recruit, they were evaluating individual players to recruit.
As for July, ECNL moving its championship to June avoiding the previous conflicts with ODP Region camps and I'm back in Montevallo for training and evaluation with the college coaches.
But then we're back to the question of how many kids in SC see the value of ODP and region camp. I know your daughters did, but not everybody agress.
And I think you're trying to kid us if you want us to believe that you wouldn't be disappointed if you went to a 'major' tournament to paly weak teams. I also know that there is a difference in the number of college coaches watching games between two high quality teams and the number of coaches watching a game that doesn't feature two high quality teams.
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Yes, I checked your math, and of the 6 games against 'A' bracket teams, the 16s had 3 losses and 3 draws. Which, again, doesn't seem to support a great difference in the A and B which is what I thought your point was.
Tied Charlotte which finished 28 out of 30 teams in the A bracket.
Loss and tied Casl which finished 22 out of 30.
Had a loss to Atlanta which finished 10th and you had a very nice draw with Atlanta.
The only other A team you played was Michigan which is a great team but it was 5-0.
There is a gap. Maybe not from the bottom teams of A but there is a gap.
any new program has gaps. cesa is just starting out in the ecnl, and will have to build a program that consistently delivers quality "a" level teams. it would be interesting though to see how the top teams in sc would do in ecnl competition.
and i believe that someone said in the thread, coaches don't go to see teams, they go to see players. so if a top level player is on a low level team, that player will get seen in the ecnl.
Actually, coaches "go" for lots of reasons.
1) To see players, certainly.
2) To see specific teams they know are well-trained/coached (and therefore may have players).
3) To see player/prospect match-ups, should they occur, as an evaluation tool.
4) To follow up on players who have inquired about their programs.
5) To be visible to club coaches, players, parents.
6) To interact with fellow coaches. (Coaches are often the biggest gossips you'll ever know.)
Etc.
All this said, most coaches already know who the "players" are. Sure, they'd like to discover a diamond or two out there, but most scouting is more due diligence than the type of prospect-mining parents perceive it to be.
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Yes, I checked your math, and of the 6 games against 'A' bracket teams, the 16s had 3 losses and 3 draws. Which, again, doesn't seem to support a great difference in the A and B which is what I thought your point was.
Tied Charlotte which finished 28 out of 30 teams in the A bracket.
Loss and tied Casl which finished 22 out of 30.
Had a loss to Atlanta which finished 10th and you had a very nice draw with Atlanta.
The only other A team you played was Michigan which is a great team but it was 5-0.
There is a gap. Maybe not from the bottom teams of A but there is a gap.
That was a 5-0 loss to Michigan
Ahhh such wisdom.
"“It makes me laugh to think about the old men sitting on their computers all day with no life talking about other teams without seeing us play,” Drennan said."
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2011/jun/20/hannas-chelsea-drennan-independent-mail-girls-socc/
Well, just got back from MeSA watching the U14's play.
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so if a top level player is on a low level team, that player will get seen in the ecnl.
I think you'll find the same at the tournaments. Oh, and Harry said to tell you there are no low level ECNL teams. They just got seeded wrong.
You were out at MeSA today? Who were you cheering for? How did the games go?
CESA Girls won U13 and U14 and CESA Boys won U13 and SCU/MP won U14 boys
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Who were you cheering for?
I was cheering for the girls of Ralston Moore, of course.
Congratulations to them on the win today (I'm sure he missed being there), and congratulations to them for having the opportunity to learn the game from one of the best both on and off the field. He will be missed, and I wish him and Beverly well in Brazil.
Brazil? for good or just vacation?
Ralston is the best for sure!
Took Beverly with him, so I figure at least until after the next World Cup.
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Who were you cheering for?
I was cheering for the girls of Ralston Moore, of course.
I thought as much. I just really, really, wanted to trick you into actually saying that you were cheering for CESA. Couldn't quite do it could you? (I hope that's the right face, I don't usually use those things)
I almost always cheer for the team from CESA. But I specifically went to that game because of Ralston. If Ralston's coaching a team I'll be cheering for it regardless of the name on the front of the jersey.
What you don't seem to grasp is that it is possible to cheer for and support CESA and ALSO be able to cheer for and support the other girls teams throughout SC be they ODP, club or HS. I cheer for the home team except at those times when the home team doesn't show the character to deserve the support.
Without knowing a single player on a Ralston coached team I know I can trust the character of the team I'm supporting.
harry, did i see you at the HANNA game? Who did you pull for?
No, you didn't see me there. If I were there, I would have seeked out the girls that played for Ralston and cheered them on vigorously. Those that played for Carlos, would have no support from me whatsoever.
WOW! Harry what's up with that. Was just curious, since both teams have a number of CESA players. But since you were NOT there, those remarks just show what a butt head you really are!
Have a nice day and enjoy!
PS: Does Carlos STILL Coach??!!
Conehead, "Uncle" Carlos coaches the CESA U13 Girls. I didn't realize he was also moving to Brazil. I would have gotten to the fields earlier for a chance to say goodbye to him as well.
And the mighty mites would shout, "What time is it NOW, Uncle Carlos!". Guess I'll have to send him an email wishing him well.
I guess if cesa gets short of coaches then there will be 150 kids on the field for training.
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harry, did i see you at the HANNA game? Who did you pull for?
He was sitting on the Hanna side.
So, what do you think?
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WOW! Harry what's up with that. Was just curious, since both teams have a number of CESA players. But since you were NOT there, those remarks just show what a butt head you really are!
Have a nice day and enjoy!
PS: Does Carlos STILL Coach??!!
Please please please tell me you knew the comment I made about Carlos wasn't serious! You knew that.....right? Nobody could be that dumb.
Oh, and butt head? Nice touch.
(Just got a call wanting to know if Carlos was really moving to Brazil... seriously. No. Not that I know of. But its the only reason I could think of for someone to seemingly get his knickers in such a twist over a shout out for a departing coach that has meant so much to girls soccer in the upstate for decades.)
So, how 'bout I fast forward to a couple of questions that could actually be considered pertinent to this thread...
1. ECNL, according to what its leaders (Lavers, Bracken, etc.) have said, was founded on a philosophy of increasing the number of meaningful games while reducing the total number of games providing a more desirable training-to-game ratio. If CESA believes, as Harry seems to be implying, that Premier and State Leagues as well as open tournaments and ODP are all inferior to participation in ECNL leagues and events, then why does CESA continue putting its ECNL teams in both ECNL and Premier leagues (increasing the number of games without dropping what it considers to be inferior competition)? Why not put the ECNL team in ECNL only and allow its other teams greater opportunity and incentive to vie for spots in Premier League resulting in a greater number of players in the club having access to higher level competition than they are already enjoying?
2. CESA does have more select teams than just those playing in ECNL. The original post of this thread was a club announcement for ECNL tryouts. Is there a similar announcement somewhere for those players, including those that might be considered "elite", wishing to tryout at CESA for non-ECNL teams? Or, is everyone required first to try out for an ECNL team? (I'm trying to understand how CESA presents its options to the players.)
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But since you were NOT there, those remarks just show what a butt head you really are!
Ahh yes. Another great example of the non-emotional post. Seriously? Comments like this are useless and, even worse, immature.
JAX, go back and read my post all i asked was a simple question and got a stupid answer. I guess it was meant for delta .The way i see it one stupid answer deserves another
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1. ECNL, according to what its leaders (Lavers, Bracken, etc.) have said, was founded on a philosophy of increasing the number of meaningful games while reducing the total number of games providing a more desirable training-to-game ratio. If CESA believes, as Harry seems to be implying, that Premier and State Leagues as well as open tournaments and ODP are all inferior to participation in ECNL leagues and events, then why does CESA continue putting its ECNL teams in both ECNL and Premier leagues (increasing the number of games without dropping what it considers to be inferior competition)? Why not put the ECNL team in ECNL only and allow its other teams greater opportunity and incentive to vie for spots in Premier League resulting in a greater number of players in the club having access to higher level competition than they are already enjoying?
2. CESA does have more select teams than just those playing in ECNL. The original post of this thread was a club announcement for ECNL tryouts. Is there a similar announcement somewhere for those players, including those that might be considered "elite", wishing to tryout at CESA for non-ECNL teams? Or, is everyone required first to try out for an ECNL team? (I'm trying to understand how CESA presents its options to the players.)
1) The way I understand it is that the only reason they played in non-ECNL events/leagues this year was because CESA is hosting regionals. It would have been a shame to host the event and not give their own players at least a chance to play in it. I also think that next year, they are completely moving on. The girls won 7 out of 8 state cups, which has been fairly typical over the years. Most of the other best clubs in the southeast have gone ECNL, (GSA, CASL, CSA, BUSA, Concorde, Dallas Texans, Sting, and on and on) so state cup and regionals doesn't seem to present the 'biggest' challenge or the highest level. Having said that, there are still some very good individual teams that will still participate in regionals next year.
Take the 96 Mt. Pleasant team. They were and will be next year one of the best teams in premier league and should do extremely well in regionals I think. They could get even better next year. They could potentially play 9 games in a league where they are the better team 7,8 or even 9 times. Then, play in state cup for 3 games where they are the best team in all 3 games. Whereas, I think in ECNL they would play 18 conference games against teams that are better than what's in premier league. I just think it's the best way to prepare yourself for the next level as a player.
2) I don't think everybody is required to try out for ECNL. I really don't know what emails have gone out to players regarding tryouts. I too will be interested to see how the challenge teams do competing for regional spots. I would think that you would see some challenge teams earning those spots soon enough. I believe it's happened more than a few times over the last handful of years.
During the U13/14 state cup, we heard talk from some CESA parents that the premier teams would not be playing in the premier league. They would focus on ECNL. Hearing that and reading some posts on this forum, that appears to be true. Does this open up a premier league spots for the Lexington 99 (U13 3rd place) and SCU/MP 97 Elite (U14 3rd place) since CESA is not playing?
If I understand the rules, that is correct. Discoveries94 should also have a spot since they finished in 3rd in December.
So for the older girls, premier spots for SC should be.
SCUMP 96 Elite and SCUFC 96 Elite
SCUFC 95 Elite and SCUFC 95 Palmetto
SCUFC 94 Elite and DSC 94 Green
Thanks, Harry. Having the opportunity to play in Southern Regionals as member of host club would explain why the teams have continued in USYS leagues up to now. Seriously, that would explain it. It would be nice, however, for those trying out for next years teams to have something definitive in terms of a statement from the club as to whether the girls will play ECNL only. Seems like one of those "99% sure but leaving door open to change mind" types of things. Including a definitive statement in that release by the club would not only give certainty to the players/parents as to what league(s) they were trying out for, it could also provide some clarity for those teams Lowcountry Attack mentioned as to what league(s) they may be trying out to play in. For the members of CESA ECNL girls it sounds 99%(?) like "enjoy the 2012 Southern Regionals, it will be your last." As for the SCUMP u15 State and R3PLE champions, I'm sure they could apply to play in USYS R3PL rather than R3PLE league as well as USYS National League like the boys teams from CESA if that's what they wanted to do. (If they did decide to go that route, it could also change the list of LC Attack's regarding the '96s to allow both SCUFC '96 teams access to R3PLE.)
As for the second question (trying to understand how CESA presents its options to players), I think I get the answer but may be misreading it. It sounds like CESA provides a release at the club website to all players for ECNL tryouts, but for all players that may want to come to CESA for non-ECNL teams the club sends out emails like invitations rather than posting an open call? Where I may be misreading your answer is (please correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't sound like the club provides a release at the website presenting/outlining available non-ECNL options. If so, I couldn't find one. I did find on the tryouts schedule what appear to be dates/times for non-ECNL tryouts but nothing as far as outline of fees and/or targeted leagues for those players.
in cesa it is pretty much understood that it's now "ecnl or nothing". as for how it is communicated, they held an ecnl q&a session and anyone who wanted to attend could come, listen and ask questions. they also put out a powerpoint presentation.
as i understand it they can only play ecnl since they didn't qualify for the r3pl. that right?
the ones who get shorted imho, are the girls in challenge. it would be nice if they could play in the r3pl in place of the premier team, since the ecnl teams in cesa are basically the premier teams...status quo. that way they could take advantage of benefits of playing at a higher level and get better. i mean, this is really all about player development, after all.
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Thanks, Harry. Having the opportunity to play in Southern Regionals as member of host club would explain why the teams have continued in USYS leagues up to now. Seriously, that would explain it. It would be nice, however, for those trying out for next years teams to have something definitive in terms of a statement from the club as to whether the girls will play ECNL only. Seems like one of those "99% sure but leaving door open to change mind" types of things. Including a definitive statement in that release by the club would not only give certainty to the players/parents as to what league(s) they were trying out for, it could also provide some clarity for those teams Lowcountry Attack mentioned as to what league(s) they may be trying out to play in. For the members of CESA ECNL girls it sounds 99%(?) like "enjoy the 2012 Southern Regionals, it will be your last." As for the SCUMP u15 State and R3PLE champions, I'm sure they could apply to play in USYS R3PL rather than R3PLE league as well as USYS National League like the boys teams from CESA if that's what they wanted to do. (If they did decide to go that route, it could also change the list of LC Attack's regarding the '96s to allow both SCUFC '96 teams access to R3PLE.)
As for the second question (trying to understand how CESA presents its options to players), I think I get the answer but may be misreading it. It sounds like CESA provides a release at the club website to all players for ECNL tryouts, but for all players that may want to come to CESA for non-ECNL teams the club sends out emails like invitations rather than posting an open call? Where I may be misreading your answer is (please correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't sound like the club provides a release at the website presenting/outlining available non-ECNL options. If so, I couldn't find one. I did find on the tryouts schedule what appear to be dates/times for non-ECNL tryouts but nothing as far as outline of fees and/or targeted leagues for those players.
Delta Dog,
Cesa did send out a postcard to their players outlining the tryout opportunties including ECNL and non-ECNL, academy, challenge, classic, etc. It is also on the website, although if a family isn't familiar with ECNL it could be a bit confusing. This is the form regarding the cost breakdown I found on the site:
http://www.carolinaelitesc.com/docs/sele...ure%20Chart.pdf
I can understand the confusion about the various levels of play, especially when not familiar with ECNL Cesa has had ECNL information meetings, although I was out of town and unable to attend the one held last month, so I am not sure how many people came to the meeting.
I'm not sure I answered any question or addressed any of your concerns, aside from the fees for the various levels of play at the various ages. Also, as I said, the information about where and when to try out was mailed to the players, although there may have been some confusion as to which tryout to attend if that player didn't understand the difference between and ECNL and non-ECNL tryout.
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in cesa it is pretty much understood that it's now "ecnl or nothing". as for how it is communicated, they held an ecnl q&a session and anyone who wanted to attend could come, listen and ask questions. they also put out a powerpoint presentation.
as i understand it they can only play ecnl since they didn't qualify for the r3pl. that right?
the ones who get shorted imho, are the girls in challenge. it would be nice if they could play in the r3pl in place of the premier team, since the ecnl teams in cesa are basically the premier teams...status quo. that way they could take advantage of benefits of playing at a higher level and get better. i mean, this is really all about player development, after all.
It's my understanding that a club can't just put another of their teams into R3Pl in place of the team that qualified to play. There has to be a certain number of players from the qualifying team on the team that ultimately plays in the league (half?) I'm not sure if that's right, but it does make sense.
nothersoccerdad and MT4ME,
Those replies do answer some of my questions, and thanks MT4ME in adding the link to the fees chart for everyone (I see non-ECNL "Premier League/Challenge League" and ECNL teams have the same fees).
"as i understand it they can only play ecnl since they didn't qualify for the r3pl. that right?
They can play ECNL and enter the State League (obviously won't be the case) for continued access to state playoffs and championships. (ECNL-only won't play for state championships.)
I'm guessing non current CESA players/families may not have gotten the invite to Q&A or a look at the PowerPoint presentation (may be wrong about that, is there a link?), so could this be the first confirmation that players trying out for other club teams around the state (like those on LC Attack' lists) have to indicate they are actually trying out for R3PLE opportunities at those clubs? Could this be the first confirmation that CESA is definately pulling the ECNL teams out of USYSA/SCYSA leagues to DOC's at those clubs, so they can explain R3PLE opportunities to players/parents and advertise those opportunities as part of their releases for tryouts?
Thanks for the link.
Actually it seems to be a pretty thorough presentation of what to expect as a path for player development for those in the ECNL group at CESA. And, if the club actually follows through on its stated objectives and embraces the referenced ECNL principles, we'd have to consider it more "information" than "propaganda". I even see in one of the slides a reference to combining training sessions of various u-15 thru u-18 teams, which may explain what Hard Headed was talking about regarding multiple teams training on the same field.
Really, those two links y'all provided do show the costs, planned activities and suggested benefits of participating in ECNL. It doesn't say definitively that the teams are playing only ECNL, but if the principles are being followed then that must be the case. (Although, I'm sure some would still be more comfortable seeing a statement from the club specifically answering that question. Maybe it was in the Q&A session.) With those pieces in place, you can't say you don't know what's in store as ECNL or the cost. Good.
Now, where is the link to the other presentation? The one for those at CESA not wanting to participate in ECNL, or maybe want ECNL but about to be moved from an ECNL team to a Challenge team or maybe those from other parts of the state that may want to join CESA in a non-ECNL capacity? We see in the fees chart that the fees for the top non-ECNL team at CESA are the same as the ECNL team, so I'm guessing there's a lot of non-ECNL player development taking place and a similar presentation outlining what the CESA non-ECNL experience and player development includes. If not a PPT presentation is there a link to maybe just a document somewhere?
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the ones who get shorted imho, are the girls in challenge. it would be nice if they could play in the r3pl in place of the premier team, since the ecnl teams in cesa are basically the premier teams...status quo. that way they could take advantage of benefits of playing at a higher level and get better. i mean, this is really all about player development, after all.
It's my understanding that a club can't just put another of their teams into R3Pl in place of the team that qualified to play. There has to be a certain number of players from the qualifying team on the team that ultimately plays in the league (half?) I'm not sure if that's right, but it does make sense.
Yes, you have to earn it on the field.
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So for the older girls, premier spots for SC should be.
SCUMP 96 Elite and SCUFC 96 Elite
SCUFC 95 Elite and SCUFC 95 Palmetto
SCUFC 94 Elite and DSC 94 Green
The state has become a two-horse race. CESA in ECNL and SCU in R3PL. No other girls programs even on the radar anymore.
Hurst, I mostly agree (depends on age group), but the reason for a two horse race should end with (99%?) the ECNL team moving out of USYS this Fall. If, as has been argued in this thread, level of competition plays a significant role in player development and CESA leaving USYS at least temporarily provides access for another club/team to higher level competition in R3PLE, shouldn't that allow a third team to evolve competitively and find it's way on to the radar?
No. It will be one of SCU's alphabet soup. Either the team from Columbia or the team from Mt. Pleasant. To the rest of us in the state, we see it as the same club. If FC finishes higher, the best players from the Low Country head west on I-26. If MP finishes higher, the best players from the Midlands head east on I-26.
The players that remain become the "B" team for SCU (FC & MP) and they fight it out with the Challenge team at CESA to see who finishes third (and fourth).
Rarely you get a "one-off" like a Lexington or a Palmetto United FC or a Discoveries who make a run at third place.
But the top 2 never change.
Excluding the "one-off" you mentioned it won't be the team from Columbia or the team from Mt. Pleasant, it will be the team from Columbia and the team from Mt. Pleasant. Eliminating the need for some of the players to hit I-26. And, the potential "one-offs" move one spot up the food chain.
Who knows, might even be just enough additional in-state access to R3PLE to help some of those heading across the borders think about maybe staying in SC.
Couldn't cesa maintain the premier league spots by dual rostering the required number of returning players along with the challenge players? Is there a rule that the players have to show up at every premier match? If they do it this way then the Ecnl players could play in state cup as a 1 or 2 seed. You better make sure of all options before you put all of your eggs in one basket and try out on rumor.
Possibly, but...
1. You'd have to keep enough ECNL/Premier players for roster minimum that some of existing Challenge players may get left out. Which existing Challenge players get left out, and where do they go?
2. Given the resulting roster some ECNL players continue having to play R3PLE and non-ECNL tournaments. That's more games for the ECNL players against what the club (at least according to Harry and the ECNL guidelines) perceives as "inferior" competition. Which ECNL players sacrifice what ECNL and the club (per the club ECNL presentation) consider good practice for player development?
"...and try out on rumor."
That "fly in the ointment" can be eliminated with a statement of intentions from the club.
Supposedly (big word), the ECNL players already know (99%?) what they are trying out for per the ECNL presentation, and it doesn't seem (another big word?) to include also playing non-ECNL. I'm still looking for the other presentation that lets non-ECNL players know what they are trying out for. Anyone found that link, yet?
there is no "other" presentation. it's understood that if you are not at the highest level, then you get whats left over.
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there is no "other" presentation. it's understood that if you are not at the highest level, then you get whats left over.
That's too bad.
I was hoping to show CESA capable of providing more player development options for elite and potentially elite players than Harry was giving the club credit. That entering ECNL expanded the club's opportunies to provide broader access to higher levels of competition for a greater number of players rather than just replacing the existing access for one team only leaving unknown "inferior" left overs for the rest. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking CESA would be concerned about the level of player development provided to its non-ECNL customers. Maybe it only considers the one team as populated with players worthy of development, which may explain the nervousness of players or parents of players on the "bubble" during tryouts... top team or unknown oblivion. However, that's not what one would think based on the equal fees of the ECNL teams and the top non-ECNL teams.
I'm not knocking what is being offered through ECNL (Regional Conference Leagues, National Events and Championships, and ID2), I just refuse to knock USYS (State/SubRegional/Regional/National Leagues, Major Tournaments and State/Regional/National Championships, and ODP) as a viable co-existent alternative. It doesn't make any more sense to me to hear someone from CESA say the club is incapable of developing elite players on the girls' side without ECNL than it would to hear someone from CESA say the club is incapable of developing elite players on the boys' side without DA.
Here is what else CESA does not give in their presentation.
Last year i was told that ECNL if you went to all the events would be around 2000.00. Here is a rough estimate of what was actualy paid. I will see if i can find the old budget to be exact.
Club fees and uniform if you were new to the club and had to buy one was about 1200.00
I paid 1081.00 in team fees. Part of that was because of region III.
The fiasco bus trip to Michigan was around 350.00 or so
ECNL Texas and Arizona i believe it was added another 750.00 or so.
Im at a little over 3000.00 and we did not go to the Sanford ECNL event. Since that was a travel on your own it would of cost you atleast another 700.00 easy for food gas and room and board.
So now you would be around 4000.00. This does not include your travel ( gas,food,room and board) to ECNL league games. Still have Chicago in July which we will not be at.
This also does not include the travel for Region III games which i guess CESA is not doing next year.
HH, Chicago is in June not July. No conflict with ODP for your daughter, so saddle up and ride north. Should be a pleasant "cool down" compared to your 95-100 degree games at Regionals the week before.
DeltaDog since mine decided that she would not play for CESA in the fall, Coach Fleming and im sure with imput from a couple others at CESA decided she would not be allowed to attend ECNL nationals in Chicago. A few days later when i asked him about reginals he gave me a politicaly correct answer about her not being allowed to be with the team at reginals also. Something along the lines of " She accepted a position with another club so she can not be with the team at reginals".
We had figured as much would happen.
Its funny how CESA always said in the past years ( came from Hyslop himself) that if a player did not make the team they wanted for the next fall and then did not go to reginals with their present team, they would not play for CESA. Now it is if you leave CESA you cant go to reginals.
I guess i will have to go to the Mountains to beat the heat.
Mine had played for CESA at the u-13/14 age. For the u-15 season she played at Charlotte. She had no intention of coming back to CESA for the u-16 season until Fleming called and offered her a spot even before tryouts. If not for that she would probably not be at CESA and we would not be having this discussion.
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DeltaDog since mine decided that she would not play for CESA in the fall, Coach Fleming and im sure with imput from a couple others at CESA decided she would not be allowed to attend ECNL nationals in Chicago. A few days later when i asked him about reginals he gave me a politicaly correct answer about her not being allowed to be with the team at reginals also. Something along the lines of " She accepted a position with another club so she can not be with the team at reginals".
We had figured as much would happen.
Its funny how CESA always said in the past years ( came from Hyslop himself) that if a player did not make the team they wanted for the next fall and then did not go to reginals with their present team, they would not play for CESA. Now it is if you leave CESA you cant go to reginals.
I guess i will have to go to the Mountains to beat the heat.
Hmmm, "offered a spot even before tryouts"...
These are what's called the CESA Shuffle.
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DeltaDog since mine decided that she would not play for CESA in the fall, Coach Fleming and im sure with imput from a couple others at CESA decided she would not be allowed to attend ECNL nationals in Chicago. A few days later when i asked him about reginals he gave me a politicaly correct answer about her not being allowed to be with the team at reginals also. Something along the lines of " She accepted a position with another club so she can not be with the team at reginals".
We had figured as much would happen.
Its funny how CESA always said in the past years ( came from Hyslop himself) that if a player did not make the team they wanted for the next fall and then did not go to reginals with their present team, they would not play for CESA. Now it is if you leave CESA you cant go to reginals.
I guess i will have to go to the Mountains to beat the heat.
That's the way the almighty cesa operates. What have you done for me lately?? How dare your daughter not want to play for them!! Glad to see that she came to her senses and moved on. She will be better for it.
HH, they must have 14+ players committed to go to regionals. if they had around 11, they would be beating your cell phone up begging you to go. might even offer to pay your way.
gbdawgs i think they have about 18 for reginals and it is in Greenville so i guess they figured they could screw one kid over and not feel bad about it. She figured she wouldnt play after going to a different club but she wanted to be with the team to support them. Go figure.
But you are right. If it was in Texas and they were short on players they wouldnt care if mine was going to Columbia to play they would still let her go.
It's all about what they need, not what may be best for you.
If they were really interested in your childs continued development (as they say they are), they would let her play, and they also would have another opportunity to convince you to play with them.
But no, they would rather "burn the bridge", as they know there will usually be others to take your place.
But there have been times when "others" were not there, and
they come calling and begging, but still demanding.
HH, sorry she doesn't get to attend, great event. But, maybe could look at it as having fresh legs to show out in Montevallo one more time. At u16 I'm guessing she's closing in on last trip there. So, where's she headed next year?
so.....the results of tryouts are trickling in...."final roster for the ECNL team will be posted after regionals in June. Players listed in this pool can be placed at the ECNL or Challenge level". what up wit dat?
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HH, sorry she doesn't get to attend, great event. But, maybe could look at it as having fresh legs to show out in Montevallo one more time. At u16 I'm guessing she's closing in on last trip there. So, where's she headed next year?
Charlotte area club
Would love to hear a response to hh's recent posts (and related comments from others) from harry/jak.
(I imagine it's coming eventually ... I guess i'm just a little impatient this morning)
They can't risk fallout. They don't want to go into regionals shorthanded and shortchanged.
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Would love to hear a response to hh's recent posts (and related comments from others) from harry/jak.
(I imagine it's coming eventually ... I guess i'm just a little impatient this morning)
Looks like Harry and Jak have gone "underground".
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Would love to hear a response to hh's recent posts (and related comments from others) from harry/jak.
(I imagine it's coming eventually ... I guess i'm just a little impatient this morning)
Looks like Harry and Jak have gone "underground".
Probably plotting.
On the CESA site there is a article i guess you call it on all the CESA teams that won R3PLE spots. Makes it sound like CESA will still have R3PLE teams but they are saying they will not do both ECNL and r3ple. That is what one of the coaches told me anyways.
Kind of misleading to those in the player pool. Sounds like it will be You make the ECNL team or play in the SC state league. No in between.
well.....if u look at the u15g roster, they now have ecnl, premier and select...they also changed the wording to "Players listed in this pool can be placed at the ECNL or Premier level." so challenge is gone.
so it looks like they are gearing up to do both, which could be a good thing. can the former challenge teams play in the premier league so long as the "old" premier teams qualified?
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well.....if u look at the u15g roster, they now have ecnl, premier and select...they also changed the wording to "Players listed in this pool can be placed at the ECNL or Premier level." so challenge is gone.
so it looks like they are gearing up to do both, which could be a good thing. can the former challenge teams play in the premier league so long as the "old" premier teams qualified?
I have never fully understood the rule. I always thought that you had to keep so many players from the team that won the spot to keep it.
You guys really need Harry to come on here and clear this all up.
It makes sense if you take into consideration the logic behind the original naming conventions for the teams before CESA joined ECNL.
From the CESA site...
"There is a correlation between the type of team and the league in which that team plays. Premier teams are those in which the goal of the team is to at least compete in the USYS Region III Premier League. Challenge teams are those in which the goal of the team is to at least compete in the SCYSA Challenge League. Classic teams are those in which the goal of the team is to at least compete in the SCYSA Classic League.
The privilege of competing in the USYS Region III Premier League must be earned; thus, there are times in which a CESA premier team at a specified age and gender may not earn the right to play in the USYS Region III Premier League and will play in the USYS Challenge League."
So, now you would have an ECNL roster (max pool size 26, max event size 18 that would include the core ECNL selections), a separate top non-ECNL roster named "Premier" (max roster 18, goal of playing in R3PLE), a 2nd non-ECNL roster named "Challenge" (max roster 18, goal of playing State Challenge League), etc.
The max "pool" size of the ECNL roster is significant. Using the current CESA U15's as an example, start with those current players becoming the ECNL-only roster and only plays ECNL league and national events (saves members money, embraces "fewer games but higher quality" and "better training to game ratio"). The non-ECNL team formerly called "Challenge" is now playing with a goal of qualifying for R3PLE and is renamed "Premier", etc. So, you start with those rosters. Then, because of the max ECNL "pool" size of 26 (more than enough required to accommodate the current u15 ECNL/Premier roster), the club can utilize those extra spots to allow offering some members of the new "Premier" team (formerly known as "Challenge") to participate (if desired) in select ECNL events. Maybe the club would like to see a promising non-ECNL player in higher level competition for evaluation, or maybe give several players on the top non-ECNL team called "Premier" opportunities to get higher level game experience to prepare those players to help get the "Premier" team (formerly known as "Challenge") out of State League and into R3PLE.
Works, if that is what the club is doing. Appears to be.
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Works, if that is what the club is doing. Appears to be.
Outside the current u15 age group "Appears to be" becomes very significant. If CESA not only "appears to be" going that way but actually "is" going that way, it impacts which other teams around the state may qualify to play R3PLE next year. (See the previously posted possible adjustments.)
Last year we know CESA did both. Played ECNL and the team also played n the R3PLE. At that meeting the coach told us that certain players would be on the ECNL roster. The ones that were not would play the R3PLE games and ECNL players would also to fill the roster.Didnt work out that way. All players, (except if a player didnt ant to go)went to all ECNL and R3PLE league games.
I was told by the same coach that they would not do both this year. Maybe they changed their minds. It will be interesting to see if they do and how they shuffle players around to keep the spot.
Does anyone actualy know for a FACT how many players from the roster that won the spot has to be on the roster again?
Heaven knows I'm not the one to speak for Harry, but if you look at what he previously posted it makes sense for the club (club perspective, not necessarily player perspective) to use whatever legal/ethical ways to hold on to as many USYS state championship qualifications for Regionals through this year. The club doesn't want to host the Southern Regionals with none of its girls' teams in attendance. (Not to mention what it would be saying to USYS about the tournament it was hosting... "Thanks for letting us host your tournament, but we don't believe in it anyway and have gone ECNL?")
That said, if the club wants to evolve to become truly capable of offering its members an option or choice as to which model (high level ECNL or high level USYS), then after Regionals it would "separate" the ECNL and top non-ECNL rosters with a goal of getting those top non-ECNL teams into R3PLE or above.
Given this year's SC state cup results, if CESA separates the rosters for next year the club would not have teams in ECNL and R3PLE. They would be ECNL and State League (regardless of the name of the team). Hopefully (that's a CESA-only perspective), the seperate top non-ECNL teams would find their ways into R3PLE at next year's state cup... without "borrowing" from the ECNL roster.
I just ask someone that knows and a team has to keep 51% of their R3PLE roster for the next year to keep its spot. For the rising u-17s there was 18 players on the team and 1 was added later to make 19. Not sure if the 19th was on the R3PLE roster. They would have to keep 10 players from last years R3PLE roster. Would go against what i was told they were going to do but who knows.
That's true. But, to use those 10 players to hold on to an existing R3PLE spot (rather than letting a new "Premier" win a new spot all on its own) the club not only presses those 10 ECNL players into dual schedule (against ECNL goals), the club has to continue enduring the moaning and groaning of all those complaining about the costs and scheduling required for those players participating in both leagues.
you are right. It made for a long,tireing and exspensive season when you toss in the ECNL events and the fiasco to Michigan. Im sure they will not bus ride to Michigan this year.
I figure about 4 of last years ECNL team could get left off of this years. That would make less needed to double roster. Maybe they will have the ECNL players that will not get much playing time dual roster. If that is the case i would hate to pay all that money for ECNL and then have to get my playing time in a R3PLE game.
Maybe this is all for nothing and CESA will not have R3PLE teams like i was told would happen by the coach.
They do have that super reginal or what ever it is called now. Maybe CESA wil get in that also.
What was the fiasco in Michigan?
A bus ride that lasted into the next day and then a 5-0 and 4-0 loss. Not the girls fault or CESA's for that matter. Drove until late at night. Stayed at a hotel then drove the rest of the way the next day and had a game the same day. Then a game on sunday and start the drive home.
But HH, your daughter is a much better soccer player as a result of all of that. She played tough competition, she got to ride on a bus all day and into the night. She probably did not get enough sleep. She is probably a better person as well.
Remember, they are always looking out for you.
And by the way, what are you thinking leaving CESA and going to Charlotte?
Did they promise you an all day and night bus ride???
CESA can have both ECNL and R3PLE teams using separate rosters once the non-ECNL team wins qualification through state cup (or maybe proves itself through major tournaments to apply for and obtain a non-automatic berth).
It would show some level of courtesy for CESA to definitively clear the air about whether or not it might try using a percentage of players to hold on to existing R3PLE spots, so that everyone can actually have solid information regarding anticipated costs and leagues upon which to make their decisions.
That trip to Michigan doesn't go away with a separation of rosters. Didn't CESA share the bus ride with Charlotte?
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CESA can have both ECNL and R3PLE teams using separate rosters once the non-ECNL team wins qualification through state cup (or maybe proves itself through major tournaments to apply for and obtain a non-automatic berth).
It would show some level of courtesy for CESA to definitively clear the air about whether or not it might try using a percentage of players to hold on to existing R3PLE spots, so that everyone can actually have solid information regarding anticipated costs and leagues upon which to make their decisions.
It would be great if Coke would give Check Cola their formula and we could all buy it cheaper. This is a business and all businesses must strive for a competitive edge.
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But HH, your daughter is a much better soccer player as a result of all of that. She played tough competition, she got to ride on a bus all day and into the night. She probably did not get enough sleep. She is probably a better person as well.
Remember, they are always looking out for you.
And by the way, what are you thinking leaving CESA and going to Charlotte?
Did they promise you an all day and night bus ride???
It was tough competition.The 5-0 loss was to an ECNL A league team. Cant say the same for the 4-0 loss. It was an ECNL B league team.
As far as leaving. That would be for the training.They made no promises but they did spell everything out before tryouts. They did have a college night back on the 18th. Had the rising u-17s come in for a training session and a scrimmage against the rising u-18s. College coaches were invited. I think 16 or 17 schools showed up.
Your are right about the no sleep. I think they got in the bed about 1:30 am.
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That trip to Michigan doesn't go away with a separation of rosters. Didn't CESA share the bus ride with Charlotte?
Somehow it was connected with Charlotte but i do not know what all was shared. Mine and a couple other CESA girls from the Charlotte area rode the Charlotte bus ubtil they stopped for the night. Rode with CESA the rest of the way the next day.
The Charlotte bus missed its turn off on Saturday and made it to Canada beofore coming to their game.
So Coke loses market share for its secret formula cola to the off-brand cola and introduces Sprite (unfortunately I was around back then to remember) to regain part of its lost share. Depends on how the company looks to ensure long term competitive edge overall.
The ECNL players don't lose access to higher level competition, and a greater number of CESA customers benefit from potential access to higher levels of competition through separation of the rosters. CESA then offers "Coke" and "Sprite". (Later they figure out how to offer "Pizza Hut".)
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CESA can have both ECNL and R3PLE teams using separate rosters once the non-ECNL team wins qualification through state cup (or maybe proves itself through major tournaments to apply for and obtain a non-automatic berth).
It would show some level of courtesy for CESA to definitively clear the air about whether or not it might try using a percentage of players to hold on to existing R3PLE spots, so that everyone can actually have solid information regarding anticipated costs and leagues upon which to make their decisions.
Delta you are right but i wonder what CESA would get out of letting everyone know.
Not a good selling point to get players to your club if you tell everyone , if you do not make our ECNL team then you can be on the challenge team. You can play in the state league. If you win your state cup we do not have R3PLE east teams so you will be in the state league again next year.
If they would of said before tryouts no R3PLE teams im sure some players would head for Columbia.
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The Charlotte bus missed its turn off on Saturday and made it to Canada beofore coming to their game.
Doesn't say much for Charlotte as a transportation hub.
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CESA can have both ECNL and R3PLE teams using separate rosters once the non-ECNL team wins qualification through state cup (or maybe proves itself through major tournaments to apply for and obtain a non-automatic berth).
It would show some level of courtesy for CESA to definitively clear the air about whether or not it might try using a percentage of players to hold on to existing R3PLE spots, so that everyone can actually have solid information regarding anticipated costs and leagues upon which to make their decisions.
It would be great if Coke would give Check Cola their formula and we could all buy it cheaper. This is a business and all businesses must strive for a competitive edge.
TS, you are talking about big buissness. CESA is that but that edge you are talking about is at the exspense of some kids.
I am leaning towards CESA doing R3PLE.
HH, has anyone said a current Challenge team qualifying for R3PLE would not be allowed to play there? Just not next Fall. And, yes, some of the Challenge players may go to Columbia for tryouts, however if CESA can develop a new roster of players to regain having a team in R3PLE I would guess the players may return.
The difference would be CESA having teams in both leagues based on actually providing player development to get 2 teams worth of players in rather than manipulating rosters to get a fewer number of players in.
Given having to make a choice between ECNL or USYS (R3PLE) I would personally choose USYS. However, that would be my personal choice and not necessarily the choice for others... no problem, both have advantages and benefits. What CESA doesn't currently offer is a true choice that separating the rosters could provide.
Deltadog you may know the answer to this.
With CESA not saying what they will do, and assuming they do not put teams in R3PLE this year, will it be to late for the third place teams from state cup to apply for the R3PLE spot? From what i understand it will not be a guarantee that another SC team will get in.Could only be one 1 team at each age from sc in R3PLE.
That is why i think CESA may still play R3PLE. I cant see them screwing the rest of the state over.
From the CESA website:
CESA has multiple age groups who have qualified for entrance into the USYSA Premier League East, Southern Premier League and National League for the upcoming 2012-2013 seasons.
For the upcoming Fall 2012- Spring 2013 seasons CESA will have multiple age groups on both the boys and girls side of our program who have qualified for entrance into Regional and National level league competition.
Our rising 14 Girls, 15 Girls, 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Southern Premier League.
Our rising 14 Boys, 15 Boys, 17 Boys and 18 Boys will participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 16 Boys will participate in the USYSA National League.
Participation in these leagues will give our players the opportunity to compete with and against top level competition on a regular basis.
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HH, has anyone said a current Challenge team qualifying for R3PLE would not be allowed to play there? Just not next Fall. And, yes, some of the Challenge players may go to Columbia for tryouts, however if CESA can develop a new roster of players to regain having a team in R3PLE I would guess the players may return.
The difference would be CESA having teams in both leagues based on actually providing player development to get 2 teams worth of players in rather than manipulating rosters to get a fewer number of players in.
No one has said there will be no R3PLE other than this year as far as i know. It would of sent some playes south if it was let out before tryouts
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Delta you are right but i wonder what CESA would get out of letting everyone know.
What do they get? Why they get an enhanced stature in the community an a membership in the Salome Chamber of Commerce.
(That's good faith PR for future growth.)
It's a valid point about current CESA Challenge players headed EAST for new R3PLE opportunities at other clubs. From a purely state level opportunity for SC players it means more SC players have access to higher levels of competition outside of State League. That's good for SC. Then it's up to CESA to prove its capabilities for developing players by winning those spots back and bringing its players home again.
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From the CESA website:
CESA has multiple age groups who have qualified for entrance into the USYSA Premier League East, Southern Premier League and National League for the upcoming 2012-2013 seasons.
For the upcoming Fall 2012- Spring 2013 seasons CESA will have multiple age groups on both the boys and girls side of our program who have qualified for entrance into Regional and National level league competition.
Our rising 14 Girls, 15 Girls, 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Southern Premier League.
Our rising 14 Boys, 15 Boys, 17 Boys and 18 Boys will participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 16 Boys will participate in the USYSA National League.
Participation in these leagues will give our players the opportunity to compete with and against top level competition on a regular basis.
There goes the Chamber of Commerce membership.
Someone asked me what college coaches showed up to the college night i mentioned in a earlier post. Here it is in the order it was given to me.
Gardner Webb
Winthrop
USC Upstate
Catawba
Belmont Abby
Kentucky
Queens
UNC Greensboro
Ole Miss
Elon
Va Tech
Davidson
Lenoir Rhyne
Montreat
Dayton
U. of Central Florida
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From the CESA website:
CESA has multiple age groups who have qualified for entrance into the USYSA Premier League East, Southern Premier League and National League for the upcoming 2012-2013 seasons.
For the upcoming Fall 2012- Spring 2013 seasons CESA will have multiple age groups on both the boys and girls side of our program who have qualified for entrance into Regional and National level league competition.
Our rising 14 Girls, 15 Girls, 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 17 Girls and 18 Girls can participate in the Southern Premier League.
Our rising 14 Boys, 15 Boys, 17 Boys and 18 Boys will participate in the Region III Premier League East. Our rising 16 Boys will participate in the USYSA National League.
Participation in these leagues will give our players the opportunity to compete with and against top level competition on a regular basis.
There goes the Chamber of Commerce membership.
If this is what is posted and they do not get into R3PLE then that is some good false advertising.
Actually, it reads "have qualified" and "can" participate. Which brings us all back to needing a statement from the club not based on what it "can" do but what it "will" do.
(and there goes the enhanced stature in the community)
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With CESA not saying what they will do, and assuming they do not put teams in R3PLE this year, will it be to late for the third place teams from state cup to apply for the R3PLE spot? From what i understand it will not be a guarantee that another SC team will get in.Could only be one 1 team at each age from sc in R3PLE.
I really don't know when those applications are made. We've had more than 2 SC teams in a age group in the past get in, but I can't recall if a 3rd team ever got in just because one of the two automatics chose not to play. And, I don't know if it would make a difference if one of the automatics declined based on choosing not to play or declined based on leaving USYS altogether.
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That is why i think CESA may still play R3PLE. I cant see them screwing the rest of the state over.
If a "3rd" team did apply and didn't get in it would play in the league it already thinks it's playing in. I don't think disservice to the non-CESA club is being made in that sense. I think the disservice to the non-CESA club is being made in not letting the non-CESA club know it may need to send the application for planning.
Harry are you on Vacation?
Post deleted by Hard Headed
HH, as with all programs, this is coach dependent. Our son's coach is top notch. But with that said, we would go where he is, not for the name on the jersey.
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HH, as with all programs, this is coach dependent. Our son's coach is top notch. But with that said, we would go where he is, not for the name on the jersey.
And we are not going to stay for the name on the Jersey.
Love it when parents hire their kids out to coaches. Teaches them a lot about loyalty.
What are you going to do when your kid goes to college for a coach, who then leaves?
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Love it when parents hire their kids out to coaches. Teaches them a lot about loyalty.
Don't understand what point you are trying to make. The coach was a huge part in our decision making process, not the club. We wanted our children to finish a season better in soccer and as a person than they entered. We left CESA once become this did not happen and this was clearly communicated to Andrew and Pearce.
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What are you going to do when your kid goes to college for a coach, who then leaves?
Then did happen with our daughter and the decision was hers. This has been a question each of our children have asked during the recruiting process but as you know, no guarantees.
We experienced the downside of this when a coaching change happened after club tryouts and it was a disaster but what can one do after the fact.
Backscreen explain your question a little and i will answer.
The loyalty thing has been beat to semiconsciousness.
You can't be loyal to everyone/everything all the time, can you? When your coach and club go separate ways, you and/or your child must choose; you must be "loyal" to one, and "disloyal" to the other.
Certainly a good time to teach your child about the real world in general, loyalty being but one of many aspects involved.
i knew this would provoke a response.
Actually, the loyalty issue can not be overstated. When you have a kid (and parent) who is essentially more loyal to a coach than to club or (most importantly) teammates, what you create is an adolescent free agent. I see it all too often in youth soccer ... kids jumping from club to club, in search of greener grass, with zero accountability to those they leave behind.
This is NOT to say that the coach/player interaction is irrelevant, or even unimportant. But the reality is, in soccer as in the "real world,' circumstances change all the time. The ability to handle that change in something other than a "me first" way is a major determinant of future happiness.
This is one reason why I always tell kids to choose a school where they can be happy and thrive WITHOUT soccer being exactly how they want it to be. Coaches change jobs. Knees blow up. Depth charts can be discouraging.
If your response is always to jump to a seemingly better situation, or a situation you're "comfortable" with, you sell yourself short in the long run.
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i knew this would provoke a response.
Actually, the loyalty issue can not be overstated. When you have a kid (and parent) who is essentially more loyal to a coach than to club or (most importantly) teammates, what you create is an adolescent free agent. I see it all too often in youth soccer ... kids jumping from club to club, in search of greener grass, with zero accountability to those they leave behind.
This is NOT to say that the coach/player interaction is irrelevant, or even unimportant. But the reality is, in soccer as in the "real world,' circumstances change all the time. The ability to handle that change in something other than a "me first" way is a major determinant of future happiness.
This is one reason why I always tell kids to choose a school where they can be happy and thrive WITHOUT soccer being exactly how they want it to be. Coaches change jobs. Knees blow up. Depth charts can be discouraging.
If your response is always to jump to a seemingly better situation, or a situation you're "comfortable" with, you sell yourself short in the long run.
So what you are saying is that no matter what your situation is ( good or bad)then you should just accept it for others sake?
No. What I'm saying is, it shouldn't be automatic. Occasionally, you have to show some leadership, grow and take on a challenge.
This is NOT to say that, if you know the "new" coach is not competent, you shouldn't CONSIDER moving along with your current coach. But how about if the new coach is nothing more frightening than "unknown"? Should you just bail?
And yes, in team sports, the collective, the "others sake," SHOULD be a gigantic consideration. Not always decisive. But, if you think about it, if you're not willing to play FOR others, why should THEY play for YOU?
When youth sport becomes a coach-driven activity and/or a scholarship-driven activity, you might as well just call it a job.
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Love it when parents hire their kids out to coaches. Teaches them a lot about loyalty.
Each year, a club coach makes a decision to continue or discontinue its loyalty/commitment to rostered players by holding tryouts. Players understand they can be cut at that time if the coach thinks he/she has found better players to replace them. College coaches annually make decisions to renew scholarships and/or cut players. (Regardless of the level of loyalty the player may provide his/her teammates during the year.)
Coach loyalty to a player is obviously renewed annually. I don't know why a player's decision to replace the coach at the end of a year should be considered less loyal than a coach's decision to replace the player. However, I would expect both the coaches and the players to honor their agreements and display some level of loyalty/commitment throughout the year.
That said, I'm trying to understand what a coach's decision (like the one regarding HH's daughter) made during the year would be designed to "teach" the players about loyalty.
Loyalty to club?
Loyalty to teammates?
Loyalty to friends?
Loyalty to college?
The question isn't about the coach's loyalty. Coaches are paid professionals, often with families of their own, who must regularly make unpopular decisions, often in THEIR best interest. We UNDERSTAND this. We PAY them to do this. YOU pay them to do this. You HOPE they do it well. That's not always the case.
My point is, and shall continue to be, if an adolescent athlete's reason to change affiliations is exclusively driven by who's coaching where -- even if the new coach is a credentialed professional -- then priorities are out of whack.
Adults and high-level athletes don't get to pick and choose EVERYTHING. Why not give thought to instilling that lesson now, decades before all the real-life decisions involving commitment kick in?
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Coaches are paid professionals, often with families of their own, who must regularly make unpopular decisions, often in THEIR best interest.
Why not give thought to instilling that lesson now, decades before all the real-life decisions involving commitment kick in?
Ohhh the "Loyalty" card.
When these parents and kids make the decision to leave a Club/Team/Teammates and join another Club, the lesson your kid just learned is-
"It's all about us".
Forget your teammates, forget your old team, get ready for some highway time.
The only loyalty I have seen in soccer, seems to be in High School Soccer.
Our experience with two kids was, these were the teams they cared about, the teammates they grew up with, a school they had pride to represent.
Club soccer is pretty good to teach your kid that there is no loyalty in this world. Which for the most part, sadly is true.
The Club is not loyal to you. You do not need to be loyal to it.
HH, your daughter was part of a CESA team. I am sure CESA loved it when they got her. They got one from another Club.
But now she is leaving, they don't need her.
Lesson learned. Life can be bitter.
And, maybe it shouldn't matter, but now that mine have moved to college I don't pay the coaches to allow them the opportunity to make decisions in THEIR best interest. They pay me for that opportunity. Not so at the club level where, as you say, I'm paying them.
BackScreen, I agree with you in part that during a year a coach may make unpopular decisions that a player wasn't expecting but should learn to accept. A recruited forward may actually have to spend the year on the back line... so be it. But, neither the coach nor the player should feel cheated if at the end of the year one or the other decides to move elsewhere.
I'm not saying anyone should feel cheated. I AM saying that jumping from club to club, JUST LIKE AN ADULT COACH, can be a disservice to a 16-year-old.
As to the part about a "recruited" forward, I hope you're talking about college. Because, heaven forbid, CESA be accused (or admit to) recruiting other clubs' kids.
That said, kids should JUMP at the chance to do what's in their team's best interests, as opposed to JUMPING TO another club.
And yes, if they've followed a club coach from post to post, he/she should (at least) have taught the kid how to play MULTIPLE POSITIONS, UNSELFISHLY, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM. WITHOUT WHINING. And without having to transfer to another college.
Don't you think?
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Ohhh the "Loyalty" card.
When these parents and kids make the decision to leave a Club/Team/Teammates and join another Club, the lesson your kid just learned is-
"It's all about us".
Forget your teammates, forget your old team, get ready for some highway time.
The only loyalty I have seen in soccer, seems to be in High School Soccer.
Our experience with two kids was, these were the teams they cared about, the teammates they grew up with, a school they had pride to represent.
Club soccer is pretty good to teach your kid that there is no loyalty in this world. Which for the most part, sadly is true.
The Club is not loyal to you. You do not need to be loyal to it.
HH, your daughter was part of a CESA team. I am sure CESA loved it when they got her. They got one from another Club.
But now she is leaving, they don't need her.
Lesson learned. Life can be bitter.
Bomber im trying to follow what you are saying.
Not sure what you mean about the get ready for some highway time ???
As far as not needing her i never thoought they did. Could care less if they did or not. One thing for sure is that she does not need Cesa.
Seems like they are the ones bitter. She decided to leave Cesa and they decided not to let her finish the year because of it.
Maybe they will give me some of my club fees back? Only fair. If a player ask to be released they want all their club fees first. Will be a cold day in hell before they give any of that money back.
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I'm not saying anyone should feel cheated. I AM saying that jumping from club to club, JUST LIKE AN ADULT COACH, can be a disservice to a 16-year-old.
As to the part about a "recruited" forward, I hope you're talking about college. Because, heaven forbid, CESA be accused (or admit to) recruiting other clubs' kids.
That said, kids should JUMP at the chance to do what's in their team's best interests, as opposed to JUMPING TO another club.
And yes, if they've followed a club coach from post to post, he/she should (at least) have taught the kid how to play MULTIPLE POSITIONS, UNSELFISHLY, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM. WITHOUT WHINING. And without having to transfer to another college.
Don't you think?
Backsceen it is more of a disservice for a 16 yr old to stay with a coach or club that the training is lacking when you are paying for it. It would be fine if you are playing in a rec league.
Well, hopefully the coach was teaching the player to be able to play multiple positions, if not it may be a reason for finding a new coach... at the end of the season. As far as club recruiting goes I may be wrong but I think that cat officially left the bag, when HH explained earlier how his daughter ended up on her current team in the first place.
I'm not saying a player shouldn't show loyalty to a team, but at the end of the year the team essentially reinvents itself through tryouts... creating new expectations of loyalty for the next year. Some players may be replaced by the coach for not performing well on the field, some may be replaced because they decided to go elsewhere. At the end of the year some players may be leaving for another coach just because the other coach let's the player know ahead of time what league the team will be playing in, so the parents will know if they can afford it.
Yeah, it bothers me if a player's jumping to another club during the season, when teammates on a frozen roster are counting on that player to be there. It also bothers me if I see a lack of in-season loyalty from the coach to a player, as in a situation where a loyal player let's a coach know her intentions for the next year having no affect on her loyalty to her current team, and the coach responds by prohibiting her participation with the team for the remainder of the current year. What service to a 16-year-old is the coach providing there? Shouldn't we be expecting more?
A DOC at a club where I coached used to impress upon us, "Yes, we want the player to play soccer here for us, but more importantly we want the player to be playing soccer SOMEwhere." I don't believe he was talking about players leaving at mid-season. Pretty sure that would have ticked him off.
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Ohhh the "Loyalty" card.
When these parents and kids make the decision to leave a Club/Team/Teammates and join another Club, the lesson your kid just learned is-
"It's all about us".
Forget your teammates, forget your old team, get ready for some highway time.
The only loyalty I have seen in soccer, seems to be in High School Soccer.
Our experience with two kids was, these were the teams they cared about, the teammates they grew up with, a school they had pride to represent.
Club soccer is pretty good to teach your kid that there is no loyalty in this world. Which for the most part, sadly is true.
The Club is not loyal to you. You do not need to be loyal to it.
HH, your daughter was part of a CESA team. I am sure CESA loved it when they got her. They got one from another Club.
But now she is leaving, they don't need her.
Lesson learned. Life can be bitter.
Bomber im trying to follow what you are saying.
Not sure what you mean about the get ready for some highway time ???
As far as not needing her i never thoought they did. Could care less if they did or not. One thing for sure is that she does not need Cesa.
Seems like they are the ones bitter. She decided to leave Cesa and they decided not to let her finish the year because of it.
Maybe they will give me some of my club fees back? Only fair. If a player ask to be released they want all their club fees first. Will be a cold day in hell before they give any of that money back.
HH, my statement of "highway time" references parents driving from say Charleston to Greenville to be a part of a Club. My attitude comes from a few years back when I watched a particular Club go after players from other Clubs at the expense of players who been loyal to that Club for many years.
In particular, we were on a team that won two back to back State Championships. Then the Coach/Club started cutting Starters on those State Championship teams, replacing them with players from Charleston, Columbia, etc.
Guess what?
They did not win any more State Championships.
They upset the chemistry and forgot that the players were TEAMMATES with each other.
They don't call it a soccer TEAM for nothing.
I agee with you, sounds like CESA is bitter your daughter left, it would seem they owe you something back.
Good luck getting it.
Bomber, I think that team did eventually win a couple more but it took a while after the coach doing all the cutting was replaced. That's if I'm thinking of the same team.
Bomber i see what you are saying now
Soooooooooo... anyone got any official updates regarding where the teams will be playing next Fall with or without loyal players?
You guys must be bored. If you want to know the answers to your vast array of questions call SCYSA. The number is (803) 749-4353. I am going on the assumption that the clubs that earned premier league spots will fill those spots until I hear otherwise.
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Bomber, I think that team did eventually win a couple more but it took a while after the coach doing all the cutting was replaced. That's if I'm thinking of the same team.
Dog, I think you are right, they did finally win one, but really, that was after Bridge imploded and it was really not even close to the same CESA team, a number players had
changed.
When they did win it, I believe it was coached by the Coach who would not coach your daughter's team in it's Regional game.
Right?
Just for accuracy, it was 2.
And yes, as I said, each team re-invents itself each year. The u18 team was different from the u17 (just as the u13 was different from the u12, not to mention the difference between u12 and u11), but by the end of the season the u18's developed a great chemistry and played very well going as far at Regionals as any CESA girls team in 4-5 years. (Someone from Bridge would have to enlighten me as to the nature/extent of the implosion. Maybe they didn't re-invent so well. Was it before the u17 year or the u18?)
And yes, same coach that wasn't at the PVedra game. But, the team will be back, re-invented once again as u19 and looking forward to having him on the sidelines in a couple of weeks.
I stand corrected, 2 not 1.
As for your coach, maybe he will show up this time.
Hope so, 0-8 stings. But, not foreseeing any potential conflicts, taking 18 and looking forward to one more run.