First off I would like to applaud Columbia United for their quick decision to call of the remaining games on Saturday, due to lightning and possible tornadoes.
However, I am disappointed at some of the other decisions they made:
1. Saturday they made an announcement for a team representative to show up at the field, at 5:30PM, for an update.
I drove through a crazy lightning storm to find out this was an "error". On the drive back to the hotel the traffic was backed up; another coach had crashed on the side of the road. Glad he looked OK but sorry his car was not. I think he was from CUFC.
2. Saturday night,there was an announcement that they would be making statement at 11:00PM on the changes for Sunday. The announcement to cancel was made at 11:35PM, why this could not have been made before this is beyond me. Why not wait until the morning when they could have made a better decision!?! The bad weather was fore casted to clear on Sunday around midnight and remain nice through Sunday.
There is nothing coaches or team managers could do at 11:35PM, other than waking a bunch of kids at midnight who were instructed to go to bed early ready for the games.
3. Their decision to cancel the remaining Sunday games, "in the interest of player safety," at 11:35 PM on Saturday night is very doubtful; I inspected the BB & T Fields, on Sunday morning, at 7:20AM, to find that fields were fine to play on and nobody's safety would have been in any way at harm. There were 2 of 6 fields that had some SLIGHT puddling. It was quite apparent that the decision was made for field protection, which would have been minimal. Not sure why they could not have stated this rather than hiding behind "player safety"
Disappointed and not returning next year!
I hate to hear this, but we had this experience at WAGS a few years ago, thus ending any trips to WAGS. . .
I hope all are OK. . .
Sounds similar to the debacle at the Carolina Soccer Classic in February when it was called off prematurely and turned out to be a nice weekend.
I agree with SoccerDoc and am disappointed that all the games at the Irmo practice field were canceled on Sunday. Those fields were also fine on Sunday morning. My child's team only played one game at 8:00 on Saturday morning. I hope someone at Columbia United will give an explanation for canceling the Sunday games and why the decision was made at 11:30 Saturday night.
Maybe if there was a pro-rated refund policy for situations like this, then they would think twice before just canceling everything and keeping the money. Even 5 Points purchased a rain insurance policy.
3. Their decision to cancel the remaining Sunday games, "in the interest of player safety," . It was quite apparent that the decision was made for field protection, which would have been minimal. Not sure why they could not have stated this rather than hiding behind "player safety"
From the first paragraph of the message...
St. Patrick's Day Cup Update
March 15, 2008, 11:30 pm
Due to severe weather events and damage to the playing fields, all tournament matches for the following venues have been cancelled in the interest of player safety: BB&T Complex, Ballentine Park and Irmo Practice fields. All matches Sunday originally scheduled for Polo Road will be played. Sunday’s Polo Road revised schedule for the U10 through U12 age groups will be posted no later than 6 am on Sunday, March 16th.
I maintain the fields and had nothing to do with the decision, but it looks like the Tournament Committee was not hiding playing field damage as a factor.
The way I read the memo was that the fields were already damaged from the storm, not that they were concerned about it becoming damaged.
Thats the issue...a number of sources that went and looked at the fields saw no problems with them at all. Is there no one from the club that will come forward and make a statement to address the issues. I understand the weather is always a gamble for these things but not wanting to damage the fields. Fields can always be repaired but not persons confidence in your handling of this.
CUFC had people at all venues walking the fields until 1:00 am last night and then again at 6:30am this morning making sure they had made the right call. If your people "looked" at the fields from the car and did not walk them and they told you they were playable, they were incorrect. The National Weather Service also had tornado and severe thunderstorm warnings until 8:00 am. So I'm sure a lot of factors went into making the call when it was made.
I'm sure IF the committee would have allowed games to proceed there would be an opposite article about why do we pay the entry fee and have to play on standing water, in a storm?!!?? So both ways it's a no win for CUFC and an argument for anonymous posters.
I walked the fields from end to end, there was only standing water on two fields and that was very little.....about 2ft circumference at the most in a couple of areas.
I doubt anyone would have complained about paying to play. Most, if not all, would complain when they drop about $300-$500, per player, not to play.
I think the decision to cancel was hastily made and a better decision could have been made on Sunday morning.
Kids and parents who were shorted matches were highly upset. It is, however, very difficult to predict weather, etc... if those who had to go were prorated back the entry fee, it may help keep people coming back. When you cancel the games you probably do not pay the refs, and that is the biggest expense, so they should give money back. We watched several matches at the Polo rd complex, everything seemed fine. We had a good time Sunday.
I think it is a no-win situation for any who try to put on a large soccer tournament. That's the nature of the beast since it is outdoors.
Hate that it happens and worry that it ruins great events by people who are doing the best they can. . .
I agree that Columbia United needs to refund entry fees based on how many games a team got to play. If they bore some of the financial responsibility of their decision to cancel all of Sundays game then it would make players, parents, and coaches feel better about the decision. Otherwise they make more profit by canceling those games then if they were played due to not paying refs.
Confirmed tornadic weather was in the area. You can never predict the weather or its effects. The storm came in Sat. afternoon. So those games had to be cancelled. Also, the tornado watch was still in effect at 8am Sun. morning. You have to err on the side of safety. You have to consider if there were down power lines, trees, etc. anywhere in the area. You could really create a more severe problem by getting all the hundreds of fans/players out there, and someone is injured by falling limbs, hot power lines, etc.
Safety is always best policy, and CUFC used best judgement possible-
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=59706
There were issues with signs blown down etc, road signs and billboards at different spots... All agree safety is first and foremost. Let's not forget the young man in Spartanburg who lost his life last year. The classy thing to do would be make a financial gesture to those who did get shorted.
If a decision was going to be made on the side of safety then the tournament should never had started. The weather report before the tournament showed the storm coming in over the weekend and we saw the devastation it had on Atlanta.
I think partial refunds would suffice and go long way in teams returning next year.
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...they make more profit by canceling those games then if they were played due to not paying refs.
I can't speak for whether or not the club will consider refunds since I don't have responsibility in that area, but it is not just as simple as not having to pay referee fees. More profit IS NOT made "by canceling those games then if they were played due to not paying refs," because of other expenses that have already been incurred and because of unrealized revenues on concession sales, product sales, etc. So regardless of refunds, the club did not make more profit by canceling the games. And this does not include lost revenues in the future for teams that don't come back. This was a tough decision to make because it cost the club a considerable amount of money rather than making more.
somebody mentioned insurance for weather, where would one get such insurance?
I noticed the BB&T Fields are closed for today. Either they are still too wet or the club is doing this to try to save face. If they were playable on Sunday, why would they be closed today?
I would ask how many schools in the area had games and practices on their fields today? That would be the better question.
More profit IS NOT made "by canceling those games then if they were played due to not paying refs," because of other expenses that have already been incurred and because of unrealized revenues on concession sales, product sales, etc. So regardless of refunds, the club did not make more profit by canceling the games. And this does not include lost revenues in the future for teams that don't come back. This was a tough decision to make because it cost the club a considerable amount of money rather than making more.
Profit is not lost from canceling matches. BTW, one cannot say that they lost money on unrealized losses...hence the term UNREALIZED
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Profit is not lost from canceling matches. BTW, one cannot say that they lost money on unrealized losses...hence the term UNREALIZED
The fact remains that more revenue would have been realized if the games had not been canceled. It did cost the club money because it did not realize revenues that would have been realized if the games had not been canceled plus the incurred expenses that can't be recovered.
You are correct that I should not have referred to future unrealized revenue due to teams not returning as "lost". It is simply unrealized.
Although I didn't go to BB&T fields Sunday morning, I do know that the fields out there don't drain very well. We have had numerous practices cancelled when there is rain day of and day before. The Ballentine Park fields are even worse and water pools so bad it takes days for it to drain.
So if the club prorates tournament fees, then can club teams get season fees prorated for cancelled practices, too??
Just kidding.
technically speaking you payed for a service (practice) which has now not been delivered. It is up to you to forgive the service or demand alternatives.
I know that if it was me and I was paying over $1000 a year for playing in the club that I would want to have my service as agreed upon at the beginning. If it required an alternate night so be it...
Someone said earlier that because of the tourn. cancellations that teams may not come back again. Thats crazy! Name one tournament across the country that refunds fees because of weather-related cancellations? When was the last time this area had 20 tornadoes in one day?
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8024349 CASL costs a ton more than this tourn. and I am sure they would offer no refunds in a similar situation. This is what teams agree to when they pay their fees; from the Raleigh Shootout website:
16. Inclement Weather
Regardless of weather conditions, coaches and their teams must appear at the respective field site, ready to play as scheduled. Failure to appear will result in forfeiture of the match. Only the Tournament Director may cancel or postpone a match. Referees may suspend a match. In the case of severe weather, in his/her discretion, Tournament Directors may cancel any and all games. In case of severe weather that occurs after the beginning of play, the Tournament Director may reduce the length of the match and may discontinue or cancel the game. Should a match be terminated due to weather conditions after 20 minutes of play, the match will be considered official and the score at the time will stand. If a match is terminated prior to 20 minutes of play every attempt will be made to complete the match. However, if necessary other means, determined by the tournament committee, may be used to determine a winner. Referees and field managers will not consider beginning or continuing matches when a lightning storm exists. No refunds will be given in the event of cancellation.
17. Disclaimer
Neither the Tournament Committee, the Capital Area Soccer League or the Tournament Sponsors are responsible for any expenses incurred by any team in the event the tournament is canceled in whole or part or in the event games are discontinued or canceled due to inclement weather or adverse field conditions, nor will any refunds be made. The Tournament Committee reserves the right to decide all matters pertaining to the tournament. The judgment of the Tournament Committee is final. The tournament Director has authority to make all decisions and these decisions will be final.
how about a rain date up front so teams can decide if they can make both dates..
Soccer is an outdoor sport. We've all been to tournaments where weather has factored into the length of games or games being played at all. The same goes for practices.
It's a risk we take as participants in the "beautiful game". When we join a club or attend a tournament we accept the fact that coaches and administrators will do what is best when it comes to the delivery of the product.
After six years of participation in club soccer, I'll say there have been some weather related disappointments. To say the organization owes me for the risk I've taken to participate in a sport I know is subject to the weather is an unrealistic position to take in my opinion.
If a tournament decides to issue a partial credit to be applied to the next tournament to teams affected by the delays that could be a good move from a marketing perspective.
Whatever the tournament committee decides is fine, because the risk is known by all up front.
meeting those teams part of the way, would keep people coming back... I think Cat's Cradle talked about never going back because of the same situation at another tourney, he is very evenly toned and well versed in the "Risks". It would be a great marketing idea.
The club running the tournamanet also should try to deliver the matches if they can be done without hurting the kids, mud does not hurt kids, just the fields. They know the risks of running the tournament as well.
I BET GOD DERN BEM RIVERS WAS OUT THERE WITH SOME TIM'S ON READY TO GET AFTER IT A BIT IN HIS WHITE SOCKS AND THEN GOD DERN CUFC CANCELED THE TOURNAMENT WITH ONLY A "SORRY BOUT THAT" TO SHOW FOR IT!
THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT!
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meeting those teams part of the way, would keep people coming back....
We've always sent some of our younger teams there, but this is the first year where we sent some U15+ teams (we took our 16 & 18 boys). Certainly disappointed that we could not play Sunday, but we still got a couple good games in for both teams. (We were some of the lucky ones.) The teams I feel the worst for are the out of state teams from Florida, West Virginia, etc that only got to play one game each. Since spring U15 & above is the "off season" in SC, you really need those out of state teams to support the tournament or you simply can't pull off the older brackets in the spring.
Perhaps a "part of the way" to meet such teams would be to offer the club a discount for next year giving them a X/3 percentage off voucher for St Patty's 2009 for each game less than 3 played (i.e. one game played = 67% off, two games played = 33% off). Wouldn't cost CUFC anything this year & might help make for an even more expanded field for next year. Just a thought.
Overall, the tournament teams attending were "class acts". We've always liked this tourney & will continue to send our teams to support CUFC as they have supported us.
We were scheduled to compete in a tournament in Mt Pleasant either this past fall or last spring (boy am I getting old) but the tournament was cancelled on Friday before any play started and even before we travelled. Full refund was given. This admittedly is a somewhat different situation.
They do save money when the tournament is cancelled. The refs are not paid. Was a rental fee for the Irmo Practice fields paid in light of the cancellation? They may lose money in concessions so perhaps the bottom line is a wash. And look at all the trophy money they save.
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And look at all the trophy money they save.
Pretty sure trophys were already bought and paid for. They can probably be used later by changing the engraved plaque that has the year or "9th Annual St. Patrick’s Day Cup".
Why do we not leave CUFC alone...enough has been said and the dead horse has twenty different boot prints on it. They tried to make everyone happy and failed. If you have ever tried to make everyone happy you might know how tough that really is. Hopefully this thread will die on the vine.
I do believe you have the most posts on this thread.
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They tried to make everyone happy and failed. If you have ever tried to make everyone happy you might know how tough that really is.
I think everyone would be happy with a pro-rated refund....which they have not done.
A couple of weeks ago, the Can-AM Cup in Myrtle Beach was cancelled. They are giving back 75%.
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I do believe you have the most posts on this thread.
Now that there Tut is some funny stuff 
This is pretty interesting stuff as I read all the posts there is still one key factor that remains..... in most tournaments that my daughters team competes in it states clearly that in the case of bad weather.... whatever the case may be that the tournament committe reserves the right to decide what to do and the team managers or coaches who signs up agrees to this policy. Though I would probably be a little irritated myself had we entered and not played the full schedule but I would certainly been more upset had the tournament committe allowed play in what was deemed unsafe conditions any child .I believe that at the end of the day no one would have been happy with either decision so they did what they thought was the best thing for all parties involved.
Just a dads thought on things.
Safety first is never a terrible idea. No one got hurt, right? You can always live to play soccer another day.
The U12 and younger still got to play, couldn't have been that unsafe.
Polo Road fields were the only exception of games continuing. They are built on sandy soil which drains a lot better than the fields in Irmo/Ballentine area which are on top of red clay soil.
Good job CUFC! I think most folks will appreciate the fact the refunds and vouchers are provided......I know I do.
Nice geture. Some may come back that might not otherwise.
Good idea CUFC, appreciated.