SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Refs changing the outcome of games

Good question. What ARE we doing? From my position, little or nothing. I understand your defensiveness on this, but you miss the point. Identifying a problem precedes its solution!
First, you cite cases. Then, you hold your existing resources accountable for improvement. (We obviously don't.)
You don't just repeatedly and blithely assign a guy and claim a shortage. You assign him LOWER, where he has a better chance to hone his craft, and insist he improve. Repeatedly assigning him to high-level games gives him no incentive (or venue) to improve.
We've had this discussion before, and I see your point. Now try to see mine.
I ask you, at what point does a whine/slam become valid? When a kid gets hurt? When an outcome is changed?
And why should we wait for that to happen?
I've been to several games this season alone in which an official's decision affected an outcome. I saw a TOTALLY mismanaged verbal skirmish escalate into a shoving match and red card (suspension) that affected the outcome of a subsequent match.
To me, that's calling a spade a spade. And until that's done often enough, nothing will change.


Why should this not be discussed? Because we might hurt people's feelings? Because the referees' "union" isn't willing to point fingers, lest fingers be pointed at them?

Will do! Thanks.

Hurst, in all honesty, do you feel that the assigner does that? I have written a few emails with no response and no action. You know as well as I do that a few should not have been asked back. Why do we continue to let those 'few bad apples' tarnish the group as a whole? I have been to over 2 dozen HS games this year to-date and I have seen an assessor twice, and one of those was a scrimmage game. How many games have you done this year and how many times assessed? How often do the refs as a group get together once the season starts or at the end of the season? Do those refs sitting in the stands watching a game for enjoyment give the crew and/or assessor/assignor feedback if they see something 'horrible'? Feedback, physical conditioning, and capability are critical. The refs need to earn their keep as it is not bad pay. Schools/teams should receive the quality that they are paying for.

I'm confident that our local assignor gives the best games to the best officials. Games that may not be played at the highest level, but do have the potential to "boil over", he gives to officials that he feels can best manage the game.

I can tell you that the best officials (if available) are assigned to many more matches than the worst officials.

I am assessed more often in USSF matches, than I am in high school matches. I'm not sure if our assessor gets paid to assess high school games.

We, as officials, don't meet once the regular season begins. The assignor should probably come up with a creative way to get everyone to show up for a Sunday evening meeting around mid-season.

On days when there are many matches scheduled, you are going to see varying degrees of experience out on the pitch officiating.

Here's an easy answer to the problem. Since the pool is shallow, let's move girls high school soccer to the fall. Now there are fewer (half) matches and all of the "A" officials will be assigned games.

Can or do coaches submit an evaluation of the ref after each game. Would it help if along with the score card, each coach gives a rating of the ref performance on a scale of 1-5. I would think most coaches would be fairly objective. I would think it would be rare for a winning team coach to rate a ref a 5 and the losing team a 1. If at the end of the season, a ref has a poor average rating, then they need to go back through a full training to get re-certified. Also, the assignor can maybe help pair a poor ref with a good ref to hopefully help them to improve during the season. There is an added incentive for the ref to do a competent job, not favoring one team over the other since both coaches will be rating his/her performance as well as it provides continuous feedback to the ref.

Import has been advocating this for years. I think it's a very good idea. It should be a post-game requirement of the coaches. Coaches should have to report their final score, identify players who received cautions and ejections, report players who sat out a suspension, and rate the officials. All of this can be done on a dedicated website. Who wants to maintain it, and how do we "motivate" coaches to file reports after every match?

By the way, should we have the officials rate the coaches as well? Not just their behavior, but their ability motivate, manage and make tactical changes?

Also, how about using the referees to select All-Region, All-State, N-S and Clash of the Carolinas players? Takes the heat off the coaches committee. Who is more impartial than a referee?

Three good ideas...I for one would welcome the feedback as well as the opportunity to give it. Perhaps officials have a different focus in the game other than identifying all-star players, but including at least one official from each region on the selection committe could certainly add some objective insight from a person who has actually seen multiple players in action.

Hurst, while I know it was (somewhat) tongue-in-cheek, your second and third paragraphs lose me.

The reality is, referees DO effectively rate/govern coaches' behavior already. Or at least, when necessary, they should. The reality is, many "lesser" officials are intimidated by certain coaches and their reputations.

As to accountability -- the key issue here -- coaches already are accountable to school districts, administrations, ADs, parents, players, media, etc. When their performance is consistently poor, they are asked to step down.

When was the last time an SCHSL referee faced THAT kind of scrutiny? Maybe, just maybe, it's time that started.

Second paragraph was tongue-in-cheek. Kudos to the school districts that demand the same excellence out of their varsity head soccer coaches that you expect out of me when I'm officiating a competitive (or any) match.

Third paragraph has some merit, if the referees helping with the selection really put the effort in to identify the players they are officiating.