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"I BELIEVE IN A LONG,PROLONGED,DERANGEMENT OF THE SENSES IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THE UNKNOWN" THE LIZARD KING
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coach
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OP
coach
Joined: Apr 2003
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Morality and religion.
Just so that we can go back to first principles, let's work through some definitions.
Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the learning process of distinguishing between virtues and vices. Generally speaking, morals are basic guidelines for behavior intended to reduce suffering in living populations.
A religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law.
As someone who has superficially studied any number of religions, I don't find them to be particularly "simple." Nor do I find morality to be simple, nor do I find the two easily divorced from one another.
The problem I have with religion, or morals, are people who use them to bludgeon others with the parts that they pick that are convenient to what they want to do. This can apply to Islamic terrorists or the Christian right or the secular left.
As a simple example, I find it absurd that there are so many people who profess to be Christians who believe in the death penalty. Then again, I find it equally absurd that those that are the most against the death penalty are quite often so in favor of on-demand abortions. These are difficult questions. It would seem to me that those "Thou shall not kill" is both a religious and a moral absolute. But many, if not most, of the population (and the present state of laws in this democratic country) disagree that the two are either completely right or completely wrong.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jul 2006
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"The crystal ship is being filled A thousand girls, a thousand thrills A million ways to spend your time When we get back, Ill drop a line" The Doors - pick your own crystal ship..... 
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Joined: Apr 2003
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coach
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coach
Joined: Apr 2003
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Quote:
Capitalism morality or Moral Capitalism ? If we strive to be Capitalist then we must also strive to be moral? With religious freedom whose morals do "the capitalist" follow?
The stockholders are not investing in our company we must increase the bottom line. "Increase the bottom line by sending this set of jobs overseas at a cheaper rate".
Which is the moral answer?
1. Don't worry about America jobs the government will help retrain them.
2. The 3rd world counties need jobs to become self sufficient and thus reducing US aid.
Where to from here ?? 
KCC: I respectfully disagree with the incredibly informed and wise cat. Reducing problems to dualities is useful in terms of our understanding of issues; however, once we've examined a problem in an "either/or" manner, it's pretty important to look at the "and" and "instead" modes of thought as well.
If we take morality as a system which attempts to alleviate the greatest suffering of the greatest number of people, then the most important thing to do is to help those less fortunate than us, even if they live outside of the United States. Thus the latter of your statements.
If we take morality as a system which attempts to alleviate the greatest suffering of people in the United States, the question is more difficult -- and absolutely debatable -- but I believe that as capitalism is practiced in the United States that it is still more important to practice global trade and reduce barriers. I once got the opportunity to have dinner with a Nobel-prize winning economist (not an American) who remarked that much of the suffering in the last century was due to tarrifs and restricted trade and then went on to very forcefully argue his points.
However, in the end, I'm glad we live in a society which is mostly capitalistic but with some remnants of socialism (the social safety net, for example.) So I like the fact that the creative destruction of capitalism has a pinch of job training in it.
One of the greatest moral issues in religion can be codified as who your neighbor is that you are supposed to love.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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"THE FUTURE'S UNCERTAIN AND THE END IS ALWAYS NEAR" MORRISON
a good quote for the ft mill/dorman fans
Last edited by Jim Morrison; 05/09/08 05:36 PM.
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world cup
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world cup
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I have been waiting for a discussion on Capitalism vs. Christianity for years!
Rock on Shibumi! This is GOOD STUFF!
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 322
corner kick
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corner kick
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Jim, The whole verse reminds of those college days with the world ahead..... "Well, I woke up this morning, I got myself a beer Well, I woke up this morning, and I got myself a beer The future's uncertain, and the end is always near" 
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Add another one while you are at it:
"Junior's Garage"
A forum for discussing popular culture or whatever else creeps into the twisted minds of some of our less-intellectually inclined posters! 
And trapdoor spiders. Never forget about the trapdoor spiders.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 322
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 322 |
Quote:
One of the greatest moral issues in religion can be codified as who your neighbor is that you are supposed to love.
What is the moral answer!
1. Thanks for the information to get the big insurance payout the church will use this to help the community.
2. Thanks for the info but it will cause other people to lose their jobs.
Morality is an individual notion that what we do will help ourselves and others fairly.
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Sorry to those who don't enjoy; but for me, a great thread.
I am a John Dewey type, thus philosophically, I reject "either/or" thinking.
I also come from a personal foundation that early on faced the reality that Jesus/Christianity has far more in common with pure communism/Marxism than Capitalism. "Lay down your worldly possessions and follow me." "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God, God."
I was arguing earlier about the common perception of socialism, the practical application of socialism, and the "theory" socialism. I was actually making a case for the three being out of sync—but also I was making a case that in the good ol' U. S. of A. than NO ONE is having their money "confiscated." And if any want to associate socialism IN OUR COUNTRY with totalitarian versions of Communism. . .well, he/she has a weak case.
In the U.S., if you do not want to pay taxes, thus do not want to participate in the socialism of our country, either vote and have that changed or leave; you are FREE to do both.
Communism and socialism HAVE been practiced in totalitarian regimes; but the immorality of those examples are the totalitarian elements—not the communism/socialism.
And on the other note. . .
One can be moral and not be religious.
One can be religious and not moral. (Ex., Southern Baptists, as a denomination, was formed as a stance for the institution of slavery.)
"Living well's the best revenge." r.e.m.
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