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How long does it take for a club coach to break his players of any bad habits they picked up during HS soccer? Also, getting back to a different style of play?
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hmmmmmmm......
What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
Then, come next spring... how long does it take the HS coach to break the players of bad habits picked up during club season.......
Very Chicken and Egg if you ask me.......
tk
Tony King
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Quote:
hmmmmmmm......
What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
Then, come next spring... how long does it take the HS coach to break the players of bad habits picked up during club season.......
Very Chicken and Egg if you ask me.......
tk
is that a joke coach? im sure it is.
hey sweet,im in circuit city 
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Goal
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Quote:
Quote:
hmmmmmmm......
What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
Then, come next spring... how long does it take the HS coach to break the players of bad habits picked up during club season.......
Very Chicken and Egg if you ask me.......
tk
is that a joke coach? im sure it is.
hey sweet,im in circuit city
MA - Why would that be a joke? There are lots of high school coaches that coach some of their players in club. Or are you saying that club players don't ever pick up bad habits before they come back to their hs team? Things like "I'm better than you, because I play club" and other prima donna syndromes. It happened on my girls team several times. One time it was her!  One of those life lessons WE had to learn.
Victory Starts Here!
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Coach
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Quote:
How long does it take for a club coach to break his players of any bad habits they picked up during HS soccer? Also, getting back to a different style of play?
Y'know...people ask questions like that (on the high school forum, no less, rather than the club forum) and then wonder why high school coaches don't have a better attitude toward club.
More on target with the "different styles of play" though...a lot of what a coach may consider "bad habits" may simply be habits that fit one coach's style of play better than another's. What will work with one system won't necessarily work with all.
To answer the question (assuming it was a real question and not just an attempt to rile up the high school coaches),how long it takes to change a player's habits ("good" and "bad" are subjective) depends a lot on how good the coach is and now much trust the players put in him/her.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Coach
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Quote:
What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
If you're talking about me, TK, they haven't managed yet! 
I've got good news and bad news...
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Quote:
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What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
If you're talking about me, TK, they haven't managed yet!
BAD HABITS...I don't think it's bad habits, it's exposing the players to different styles of play. They learn more variations to the game. I see it as WIN-WIN for players HS and CLUB. 
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Agreed...never hurts a player to learn something different, especially if they learn to change their play to fit the situation instead of always doing the same thing whether it works or not!
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I have an example of one of the players I coached in club several years ago. She was one of the few club players on her JV team and was by the best. She could dribble through defenders all day long at that level of competition.
It was a headache trying to get her to release the ball early when she came back to club. A couple of hard tackles in a physical game; telling her it was basically her fault for holding onto the ball too long, and she was mostly cured.
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Yep...and again, different tactics for different situations. Holding the ball was probably a successful tactic in one situation (releasing it might have equated with giving it away, and passing to someone less able to keep possession might have been a "bad habit" when holding it equals getting it through), but at a different level of play, holding it too long was the "bad habit" when she was surrounded by support that could spread the defense and create opportunity.
I think the BEST habit players can learn is to assess the situation and adjust accordingly...if passing isn't working and you can dribble through, hold it, but if dribbling isn't working and you have passing options, use 'em. Never hurts to give them several different tricks in their arsenal if they can learn which is appropriate for what situation.
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Maybe I should have said adjustments not bad habits. Anyway, probally the number one adjustment would be speed of play.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
hmmmmmmm......
What if the HS coach is ALSO the club coach..... how long does it take the club to break the coach of his bad habits.....?
Then, come next spring... how long does it take the HS coach to break the players of bad habits picked up during club season.......
Very Chicken and Egg if you ask me.......
tk
is that a joke coach? im sure it is.
hey sweet,im in circuit city
MA - Why would that be a joke? There are lots of high school coaches that coach some of their players in club. Or are you saying that club players don't ever pick up bad habits before they come back to their hs team? Things like "I'm better than you, because I play club" and other prima donna syndromes. It happened on my girls team several times. One time it was her! One of those life lessons WE had to learn.
i do not mean the "im better than you attitude".i also understand that some school coaches are club coaches also but with school soccer there are all different levels of skilled players even on the best of teams.sometimes a player has to take on more at the school level.the one major bad habit i see with school players going back to club is holding the ball to long.what bad habits will a club player bring to a school team? moving the ball!!
i will agree on the attitude part but in reverse.alot of high school players get back to the club year thinking i am great because i scored 1000 goals in high school this year.when mine played school ball im sure it was different than where ever you are.not much school soccer where we are.
i am reading and answering these as i go so something may change before i get to the end of the thread.
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maybe i should put it this way.
i think there is a difference from school to school all over the state.
some school teams are coached and play like club teams.meaning very good.there are schools that may only have one or two club players or even soccer players on the whole team.these few can pick up "not so good habits" like having to hold the ball to long.
you also have players on good school teams that pick up the same "not so good habits" by playing these same bad teams.
i hope this came out right.im trying not to make anyone mad and just give my opinion in a nice way.
IVE BEEN WATCHING JOEL OSTEEN.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 06/05/08 01:30 AM.
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world cup
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What happens when your high school coach is better than your club coach?
How about when your club team is not as good as your high school team?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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my first reply would be "find a new club" but im in my nice mode.you have the good lords blessing of having a great school coach. it still does not stop the fact that when you play bad teams you can pick up bad habits. MY NEXT NAME CHANGE WILL BE TO EITHER MATTHEW,MARK,LUKE,JOHN,ETC.........
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I'm not talking specifically about be, and I'm not referring to Fort Mill.
How about Wando?
How many of those girls play for a club coach as good as Coach Champ? I'm sure that not all of them play on a club team that's as good as their high school team.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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im really not sure how you compare high school and club.at club you are all basically the same age.in high school you could have a four year span in age.i see why wando is considered good but as far as the rest of the state what is your critirea for a high school team to be good or better than a club team.is it to be like wando and win the state 2 years in a row or a team that just walks through a easy schedule against lesser teams.
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WOW.... a little pot stirring went a long way.....
fyi-- nope! Not a joke. I coach both, enjoy the difference and personally don’t think you can qualify or quantify the difference between the two in any way that is meaningful enough to sway most people from any entrenched opinions about the two.
Are there differences between HS and club? Yes, oh golly yes
Is it fun to debate and argue these differences? Yep again, even humorous sometimes.
Let the good times roll and just enjoy the game for what it is- wherever it is. After you watch some of the EuroCup games this weekend go catch a game of U-6 and let me know which one leaves you with the bigger smile.
tk
Tony King
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Marcus,
Are there girls on the Wando High School varsity team, that are sophomores, and perhaps played on a U-16 Challenge or Classic team? Could it be possible that the Wando girls varsity team is better than the U-16 club team those girls played on?
The title is "Bad Habits".....like playing on the varsity HS team at Wando is going to hurt their club performance this upcoming club season????
Nonsense.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Quote:
Marcus,
Are there girls on the Wando High School varsity team, that are sophomores, and perhaps played on a U-16 Challenge or Classic team? Could it be possible that the Wando girls varsity team is better than the U-16 club team those girls played on?
The title is "Bad Habits".....like playing on the varsity HS team at Wando is going to hurt their club performance this upcoming club season????
Nonsense.
im not sure where i said playing at wando was going to hurt these girls.i think you are the one that got wando into this thread.
i still think that no matter how good your high school team or coach is you can still pick up habits like holding the ball too long and trying to dribble through 11 players.
as for wando being better than a u-16 classic or challenge team.im sure they are better than u-17 and 18 teams also.you could take the best players at each age, put them together on any high school team and beat any club team.as the year went on they would start doing things that they can not do in club.seems that most on here defending school soccer(if defending is the right word)play or coach or watch good teams with good coaches.maybe it should read picking up bad habits from bad school programs.
Hurst if you do not think you can pick up bad habits from high school then either i do not know you like i thought or i did not know how big those blinders are about high school soccer you have on.
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If I may read a little into Hurst (apologies if I misread), I think the point is that high school doesn't always equal bad habits and club doesn't always equal good habits. You can't just automatically assume that the quality of one is going to be better or worse than the quality of the other just by category alone. (Well, you CAN assume that, but you know how that word "assume" breaks down...) There are varying levels of high school programs and coaches just like there are varying levels of club programs and coaches; I think the argument is against stereotyping, not whether or not bad habits can be picked up one place or another.
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i can agree with what you said coach. like i stated in my reply to hurst,maybe it should read picking up bad habits from bad programs or not the better programs.
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That's a little better, Marcus. I don't subscribe to the theory that ALL club teams (or club programs) are better than all high school programs.
That's it.
If an inexperienced high school coach is preaching to his R3PL center defender, "When in doubt, kick it out!", I doubt she is going to return to her CESA Premier or CUFC Elite team and suddenly start giving away free corner kicks! Give these players a little credit. I think yhey are aware of what each coach requires and they are probably smart enough to "throw the switch".
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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i give the club players credit that they will not go back and play stupid but i see to many picking up the habit of holding the ball to long.when you play against a team of kids that has never played soccer before you tend to hold the ball just a little to long or get fancy sometimes.it does not take a good player long to break that habit.
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Bad habits very good topic. It is interesting where and how these things surface, or even how they are percieved.
As in Central D "kick it out". Don't think, don't look just act this way always. It's the absolutes that kids deal with in the early developmental years. When we as coaches deal with absolutes (ie: never dribble in your 18) we see it as something to teach and it sticks, but it also restricts thinking.
I think most coaches agree on maybe 80% of soccer, it's that 20% that really seperate us. This is where we divide in logic, players developing and programs prospering.
Here is a bad habit that I have/had. I was showing my girls some 1 v 1 moves. Everyone had a ball and I used a few trash cans (the same one that was hurled into) for them to dribble around. I showed the girls how to approach and dip shoulder and explode around the defender. I said "Make your move then dribble around the can". I was watching 18 players and 5 cans, one young lady took me to my word and was dribbling "around" the can. My back was turned so I didn't see her. I think she made 100 revolutions till she turned white and got wozzy.
Last edited by Coach Tim; 06/07/08 12:17 AM.
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