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I have been ask by several parents this week if I thought the ODP program was worth the time and money, or would the expense be better spent going to college camps where their kids are interested in attending? From what I understand the accommodations are not very good in Alabama, and more and more of the better players are not even coming out, so SC is not really being represented properly at Region. I really had not thought much about it, but was curious on other people's comments.
Last edited by Hobo; 07/08/08 09:31 PM.
That there is an RV Clark......
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As far as the SC 92 girls are concerned, I would say that most of the top players have come out. Do some get missed, sure. The ODP program provides top training, pits the player against top competition in training/matches and makes them step out of their comfort zone playing with their club team. All of these help make them a better player. Regional camp provides the players the opportunity to gauge themselves against the top competition in the Southeast (Texas)-something you do not get at a college camp. And it does, if the player performs well, open additional opportunities for the future.
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If your daughter makes the Region ODP camp, I have been told it is the best possible camp she could attend. Great instruction, high-level training sessions and competition with and against some of the best players in the southeast. Your daughter will not be challenged like this at any college camp. This will help your daughter get BETTER and perhaps get noticed by one of the college coaches providing instruction IF your daughter is an ELITE player.
Now, if you would rather spend your money on finding out if your daughter is the proper fit for a school that she has already expressed an interest in attending, then surely your money would be well-spent in sending her to that school's camp so the coach can evaluate her (and vice versa).
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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As I put my child on the bus for the first time I asked myself the same question and went online for information. The article below offers a good overview. http://www.osysa.com/USWOMEN.html
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After years of ODP participation, I've seen players build confidence in themselves as they step out of their comfort zones to compete for a spot on the State team. I've seen players fail to be selected and return the next year to be selected. Great personal relationships are built with players from competing clubs and coaches from major Universities and Colleges across the State during each year of training and competition.
If your son or daughter has aspirations of playing at the National team level, he/she has the opportunity to do that via the program. If he/she wants to play college ball, ODP combines ideally with club participation to give the increasingly accomplished player exposure and a realistic view of the demands required of top level athletes as they continue to grow and develop.
The existing program isn't perfect in many ways, but it's not bad either. Like the skill of any athlete, there is always room for improvement. After all, that's what keeps us all going. Embrace the challenge and benefit from it.
Imagine. Believe. Achieve.
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To take a different view point... Is ODP worth the time and money? If you read the Bio on every UNC womens player, the answer is, YES. Every Bio has something about ODP and or a national team in their background, sort of like it is in their DNA.
Every young person that has asked me the question, the answer they get is, "if you want to play for a college team, YES".
The white paper posted by momofboywholovesoccer, has one key component that SC should address, the COST. We - SC, in my opinion, are behind in our ODP efforts. SCYSA should take the stock pile of money they have ear marked for the SCYSA fields and use it to fund the ODP teams for FREE This will insure we do not leave any SC child out of this equation. Hey, but I must be a soft hearted, liberal, hmmm ... NOT!
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free is not the answer. there are many reasons sc is behind other states but the cost is not one of them in the way you want it.if you cant pay for odp then im sure a player cant pay for club soccer.if you do not want any players left out then the free should start at the club level.i guess it is somewhat with sholarships that can be applied for.
the lack of training together may be more the problem than anything else. you have college coaches coaching the sc odp teams but what pay they are getting hardly pays the gas for them to make one training session.
i would say numbers plays a big part in the levelsc is at compared to other states.
papa hatfield i will pm you my cell number.give me a call and i will tell you about my 2 hr conversation with some of the people that run the texas odp and why it is so successful.part of it is the skill of the kids but part is how they get that skill and how much it cost them.
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we may want to get the politics out of soccer before anything else.always some shady stuff going on in soccer.it is with the odp 92s now.
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1. I said twice, as is, warts and all that ODP is worth it.
2. FREE is only part of the answer. Cost can not be a barrier for our (SC) kids.
3. Money works for everything Soccer included, more training, more work, more camps, more speed training, more works. My little one played 65 matches, went to 10 weeks worth of camps. So more works. In my mind. Money it self helps, ask the ugly rich guy, how he got the hot wife.
4. Free is only about 10-20% of the answer, I just do not like how far SC is off. Two young 95 girls got into the coaches choice game.Two SC girls that is it. Politics I understand helped them get in, so it could have been, NONE. So when I push the FREE button, it is to help the total package.
5. SC as a whole will benefit from your Texas knowlege, please share if you feel like you can.
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And politics in a kids game, sucks...
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I do not think there are any "politics" going on with the '92G ODP- whatever politics means. That teams training and coaching are what's good about ODP
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politics does suck.i will agree.
as far as my knowledge of texas odp is basically this in a nut shell without going thru the whole conversation.
pay more,train more,get more.
texas kids pay alot more money over the whole odp process than we do in sc.nc does too. reason being is their coaches are well paid.sc coaches get about 40 bucks on avg for a training session.that does not pay the gas for a college coach to drive and spend the day training the kids.
they also train most weekends during the year.they also have a league with odp teams.sc does not have the numbers for that.
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Quote:
I do not think there are any "politics" going on with the '92G ODP- whatever politics means. That teams training and coaching are what's good about ODP
are your sure? i am sure about my statemant.
i never said anything about their training and coaching.
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"Politics" is vague term. But in its normal usage relating to club or ODP soccer, yes I'm sure
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I agree, more is better. They (NC) were better prepared than we were, I understood they had trained more as a unit etc. I simply state why buy fields when many exist in Columbia already. Use the funds SCYSA has to get SC up a notch, say fund the difference for the better/more training or fund a huge free scholarship fund, or have it all free. I just think state assocation owned fields will not get our kids up a notch. More money, more training, more practice as a unit works. The coaches should be paid on par with the other states, we should expect the same level and number of training sessions, in return. The sessions I saw were professional, maybe just too few of them.
South Cal ODP has a system where they try and scout kids out for their very successful ODP process, and have an extensive process where kids can be nominated. Two things I do not think we have.
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Quote:
I agree, more is better. They (NC) were better prepared than we were, I understood they had trained more as a unit etc. I simply state why buy fields when many exist in Columbia already. Use the funds SCYSA has to get SC up a notch, say fund the difference for the better/more training or fund a huge free scholarship fund, or have it all free. I just think state assocation owned fields will not get our kids up a notch. More money, more training, more practice as a unit works. The coaches should be paid on par with the other states, we should expect the same level and number of training sessions, in return. The sessions I saw were professional, maybe just too few of them.
South Cal ODP has a system where they try and scout kids out for their very successful ODP process, and have an extensive process where kids can be nominated. Two things I do not think we have.
i can agree with what you are saying.some good points.i think we can allagree that the words training and too few has alot to do with the state of sc odp.i do notthink it is a lackof want from the coaches butido thinkthat is where we get into the money and time issue.
this question is kind of going in a different direction but..
do you think in sc that club affiliation has anything to do with making the sc team?
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to answer your club affiliation question, I will have to rely on what I have seen, and the lot I have heard. The part I have heard is from people I trust with my life, so I take it to be FACT.
Yes, club affiliation affects who makes the team. In the best case if two kids are about even a coach will take a known property, the kid he or she knows. That part makes sense to me. In a worse case, it is plain worse. Politics play a role. The problem is it is almost impossible to prove and is impossible to stop.
ODP is worth it, warts, and all. Politics is a WART.
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MA... first of all we are speaking about a human process.... by definition there is "politics" involved. Whether to appease or preferential or whatever one can come up with.
However having said that for the most part the selection process does work with the best that CAME to tryouts.. This subject is not new and there is a thread going back 2 years on the same topic
Club affiliation??? I was involved with ODP for 5 years and in my opinion club affiliation only helped in that the player selected was better prepared. So yes you would expect that players from club A who have a history of winning would most likely have the better players.
In my experience it has been diversified with those that CAME out to tryouts
I keep capitalizing the word CAME because I know for a fact the best players do not all try-out.
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You may want to read some of this thread http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=62667&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1It has very good discussion My point back then and still valid as far as I am concerned you can find the following in this link if you want to see the full ranting and raving http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=62667&page=0&fpart=2&vc=6This brings us to the next point – Camps & ODP Camps are great for recruiting opportunities, but you must get into the right camp in the right session… for example the senior elite camps at Clemson, Furman and USC. Here you will have the opportunity to be showcased to many college coaches (not just that school) in an individual level… both a good thing and a bad thing. Key question do you need to go every year? Probably not, the key year is summer of your Junior year (Girls may extend into senior year). If by this time you are not somewhat known, you probably never will. ODP – as far as I am concerned ODP is broken. Here in SC and elsewhere, although the size of the participating population will impact the program. In my opinion I would like it better if instead of tryouts, players were invited to participate in the program (US CLUB SOCCER SUPER Y)… How do you do this? 1-The clubs should have a vested interest in the program; to date not many clubs do (think pro club vs national team issues – injuries, etc.). How do you have the club buy in? The coaches in an age group have to select the best 3 players for the opposing team after every game. The youth coaches know who these players are. A coordinator for the age group is selected to compile and discuss with the coaches the selection. 2-As the season progresses, a list is generated from which an invitation will be extended to come to camp. There would only be a cost for registration, the additional fees should be from sponsorship opportunities. 3-SCYSA should centralize training, with the logical location being Columbia as the state central location. This requires fields or an arrangement with a local club. 4-The team is assigned the coordinating coach and a College coach for all training. Now in a perfect world this would work, however there should be some rules in place that clearly define recruiting do’s and do not’s that affect the coaches from the clubs. There is basically no way to eliminate the political perception of the program for one simple reason. Whether it is try-outs or invitation the fact is, it is someone’s opinion -similar to judging high dives or ice skating at the Olympics – not everyone will agree. But what everyone will agree on is that the selection process was done over a period of time in which Johnny/Sally had ample time to show his/hers stuff. The cost is minimal and it would very likely identify the top players. ......
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Odp is worth it. I think that it is one of the first thing college coaches look at. I also think it should not cost as much as it does (maybe 1\3 the price now with low income players having the opportunity for a scholarship). Second is having the clubs and coaches supporting odp. Many coaches in the low country steer kids away from odp. My daughter plays for Bridge 94 and one of the requirments to play on the team is trying out for odp. We had 3 94(1 ALT) 7- 95 and 1 that was a 96 and too young to try out.
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I agree, more is better. They (NC) were better prepared than we were, I understood they had trained more as a unit etc. I simply state why buy fields when many exist in Columbia already. Use the funds SCYSA has to get SC up a notch, say fund the difference for the better/more training or fund a huge free scholarship fund, or have it all free. I just think state assocation owned fields will not get our kids up a notch. More money, more training, more practice as a unit works. The coaches should be paid on par with the other states, we should expect the same level and number of training sessions, in return. The sessions I saw were professional, maybe just too few of them.
The problem with this scenario is it caters only to using state funds on the "elite" players. Having a 16-field complex in the Columbia area for soccer specific purposes would benefit every SCYSA player in the state.
"I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles"
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my kid made the coaches choice game her first year at usc upstate.she has been held over a few years in bama and made the national camp so it may seem odd that i am complaining.i know what the cost of odp soccer is or just soccer period. i am a big fan of odp and think it has been great for my kid.she is one of the best players that did COME out. unlike some on here i like mary bynum.for the 92s i think they got a good coach.
im just going to leave it at that and not bring anything else into it.not on here anyway.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 07/09/08 04:21 PM.
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And for the record.... ODP is worth it, I encourage all to participate.
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ODP has never tried to be an inclusive entity, but rather an exclusive one. That's been my biggest rant with ODP through the years.
There are several good points raised in this discussion however. But, I also feel that too much stock is being put in "professional" training sessions. My experience is that most 'good coaches' are running quality training sessions, sometimes in more quantity than the so-called experts that simply roll the ball out there and let a hand-picked group of talent knock it around. Yes, the argument can be made that the game is the best teacher, but this is essentially a scrimmage and little "training" is actually being done.
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Quote:
ODP has never tried to be an inclusive entity, but rather an exclusive one. That's been my biggest rant with ODP through the years.
There are several good points raised in this discussion however. But, I also feel that too much stock is being put in "professional" training sessions. My experience is that most 'good coaches' are running quality training sessions, sometimes in more quantity than the so-called experts that simply roll the ball out there and let a hand-picked group of talent knock it around. Yes, the argument can be made that the game is the best teacher, but this is essentially a scrimmage and little "training" is actually being done.
i think there are good coaches in the sc odp system.i also think they hold good training sessions.that kind of gets back to my point of money and to few sessions. coaches are not paid enough to hold to many sessions.
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more emphasis needs to be place on the technical development, especially with the younger age groups. standards should be in place with each group specifying where they need to be. along with that, the coaches should provide some type of feedback to the players on their weaknesses and strengths. have seen some pretty darn good players technically but they had no feel for the game. it can't all be just one-on-one crap, they need to learn how to read the game and make use of their skills when needed but still keep the game simple. dribble with head up, release the ball at right time and place, support, overlap, etc. that is where I see the SC teams lose it when playing others. We play one-on-one or in clics, the other states play the game they way it should be played, ball control and passing.
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The key is the little ones.
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Having had 2 kids participate in ODP each year that they possibly could, I can tell you unequivocally, it's absolutely worth the cost.
At the outset of pondering the value of ODP, we had a college coach tell us, if two comparatively identical players are being considered for college ball and one has ODP experience and the other doesn't, the ODP kid will be given higher considerations.
Having college coaches from other states train and evaluate my kids was a fabulous experience for them. Additionally, almost every SC college coach my kids experienced along the ODP way made for a valuable experience. Most of those coaches care(d) about giving kids a valuable experience and give their best to the kids.
Do the best players always come out? No - and it's for a variety of reasons. Are the chances good that my kids played with and against some of the best players in the region at ODP? Absolutely! What's fun is meeting - and playing against - those same kids again at Regionals.
"Import" is right - if SC is going to be more competitive at ODP camps, it boils down to fundamentals. Our experience at ODP would indicate college coaches would rather not have to stress fundamentals during ODP training sessions - they'd much rather focus on tactics and strategy. Hence, my rants on fundamentals - if a kid can't receive a ball or make a pass....
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For those of us not that familiar with the costs/commitment to participate in ODP, could others share this information? When I've inquired about ODP, I've heard great things on a regional and national level, but within the state of SC, I haven't heard many good things that seem to warrant the time and expense required to participate. Some coaches love it, others do not.........and this is coaches within the same club.
As for the comment that if you have a child who plays competitive club soccer, then they can afford ODP, I beg to differ..........as a family, we sacrifice every season to pay the costs involved with training/tournaments/travel, but do so with no reservation because of how committed our child is to the sport and truly loves the game.
Are there other states who help subsidize ODP costs Papa Hatfield, or is this your brainstorm?
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Any coach who would discourage a player from trying out for ODP I respectfully submit is leading you astray. As someone else stated in this thread, ODP experience has always played a significant role in the development of collegiate players and I believe it always will. Not all states employ college coaches as ODP coaches, so our players get that as an added benefit.
My son's first ODP experience at the age of 10 (he's now 15) was to be trained by Head Coaches Ralph Lundy of The College of Charleston, Van Taylor of Lander and Ben Freakley now of VMI (I believe he was the Erskine Head Coach at that time), Bert Molinary of USC and for the past two seasons Sam Okpodu of Newberry. The impact such professionals, in conjunction with well qualified club coaches, have on the development of kids as young people and as players can't be emphasized enough.
Every one of these coaches have and do demand more of their players than they often realize they are capable of giving. Players who work individually, with their teammates, parents, etc. to stay in the program build a sense of accomplishment, desire for improvement, a healthy appreciation for how to take constructive criticism and general sense of pride in the responsibility they have as a member of their team.
Much of what I see as benefits of ODP are related to the mental aspect of the game as taught by these accomplished coaches and most club coaches. Teaching and having technical skill is a given at this level by all involved. Understanding the physical and mental demands of the game are better taught and absorbed when a player is exposed to multiple qualified coaches.
So, in my opinion, the $1500 or so the program and associated travel costs over the course of the year is money well spent..
SC 92 Boys had 10 players selected for the pool game tonight. Well done on the first day of Regionals after a 2-0 win this morning.
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Can anyone name a quality 92 girl player who decided not to do ODP. Their might be one or two, but this notion that lots of elite SC players skip ODP is just not true. All one has to do is attend a coaches choice game to see the quality of players.
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Who were the 10 pool players?
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sweet feet,
I don't know if any players made a conscious decision to "not do ODP", but I do know there are some very good players who are not in Alabama this week.
I don't know what year Stephanie Sosa (rising junior from Hilton Head) was born, but if it was in 1992, she's in my Top 18. Heck, she's in my starting line up.
As for the 91 SC Girls, I heard that not all of their ODP players made the trip to region camp?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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I'll post the complete list when I get it. Maybe later today.
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Some teams practice more than others..They get more out of it. You have to look at it from age group to age group to say whether it is worth it or not..My child said there was to much idle time at camp last year..One game a day and a short practice session left alot of idle time. Am i going to say it's not worth it..No but for some it's not all that it's cracked up to be..Are all the best players there? I would say a majority are but there are some who choose not to play..It comes down to player to player.They have to choose whether it's worthwhile are not
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It does seem like the experience can vary from age to age.
I guess my question is...organizationally how this can happen and why would it be allowed to continue?
Does anyone ever sit down and do best practices, lessons learned, benchmark other states, etc?
This is a process....if you want a certain outcome then you need to do what is necessary to produce the outcome. Training and playing together as a unit helps to build that and the lack of it......hurts the individual player's ability to play to the best of his/her ability.
My sons comparable age group in NC played 2 subregionals, not one. They practiced at least once a month from December on. They paid $10 per player per session to help cover training costs.
NC in this age group put about 7 kids in pool play last night and we had 1. Coincidence?
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One difficulty that is faced by SC...and not by NC and several other states (at least on the boys side)...is the timing of the high school season, which is often overlooked. It is extrememly difficult to organize multiple training sessions and scrimmages during the spring due to high school season conflicts and club conflicts, especially for the older, varsity aged athletes. Often, kids cannot make training sessions for various reasons, which makes it hard for any coach to run a quality training session. Also, I know for a fact that some high school coaches FORBID their players from attending ODP training...out of fear of injuries...which, again, keep kids from attending training sessions during the spring. Until ALL of the club and high school coaches buy into, support and encourage their players to participate in ODP, SC will continue to struggle to consistently compete with the "best" states. That being said...don't forget that we had 2 teams participate in the Region Championship Finals this January in Texas, and had several players held over for the Region Pool last summer, and also selected for the Region Team Showcase at Disney...so we have shown that we can compete with the best!!!
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we need to have one of those round table discussion on this subject and pass on to the powers that be our ideas.everyone has good points and thoughts no matter how different or alike they are to others. the longer the thread gets the more we go over the same things and other ideas get lost in the shuffle.i think we all see there should be changes.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 07/10/08 04:56 PM.
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This year the 92 Boys played sub-regionals and started weekly Sunday practices after tryouts in May. They are 2-0 so far at region camp.
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My daughter is one of the 2 GK's on the 91 team, and they only had 12 players at the beginning of camp. I think that another player arrived a day later due to a school commitment. They were so short the first game on Mon. that they had GK's playing field. I know that several of the team did not come to camp this year for various reasons. It may have something to do with several of the girls already verbally committing to colleges, I am not sure, although several that are in attendance are also already verbally committed. Contrasted to last year when they went undefeated and unscored on and went to Houston in Jan. for the ODP Southern Regionals, they lost this year to No. TX and Oklahoma. With the heat and no subs, and at least one injury (my GK daughter - hamstring) they did the best they could.
Also, Hurst, in response to your query about Stephanie Sosa, I believe she is a 91. She was on my daughters Bridge FA 89 Gold team last Fall. She and my daughter and 3 others were playing up an age grp.
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Sorry to hear about the huge change in success between this year and last for the '91 girls. Any other observations you and or the team have regarding why this occurred would be helpful to know.
So far the 92 Boys are having success. We'd like to see that continue.
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FutbolMadness, You probably could have used Stephanie out there this week, and maybe could have borrowed a couple of SC 92 girls to bolster your bench. Hope your daughter makes a quick recovery from her injury (unless she plays for Wando, in which case I hope that the condition is chronic, and that she remains lame until she graduates from high school.) 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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First for SC ODP, you would need to define what success is- holdovers, team success in advancing to ODP Nationals or player improvement. If its holdovers- that one is tricky to address due to the dynamics of the selection process. SC 92G beat Mississippi 3-2 while mostly resting a couple of players for pool games. Mississippi has 4 holdovers, SC 1. One of the NC holdovers didn’t start for her club team- behind other NC ODP players that did not get heldover. So it would be hard to design a system to make holdovers happen. Team successes are easier to address with more practices and training. The luck of the draw with your selected opponent in advancement games will often determine that potential success as well. SC ODP could opt for more training and practice but the costs would rise, along with the conflicts with high school soccer. Additional training sessions through the spring would mean high school players would be training almost every day. Injuries would rise and effectiveness would decrease. Additional summer training would conflict with regional preparation, camps, etc. Player improvement is already happening by training sessions, playing with and against top players in highly competitive games, etc. Additional training sessions training sessions would help, with the same problems outlined above.
SC ODP seems to have success in relation to states of similar size. Texas, GA, Florida and NC have much bigger pools and therefore it will always be tough to compete. The question is- what exactly would define success for SC ODP?
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EAsoccer9,
Your theory may hold some weight on the boys side, but does not explain the perceived shortcoming on the girls side.
Yesterday I had lunch with a D2 college coach who has coached college soccer in both North and South Carolina. He told me that he feels the talent pool in South Carolina is relatively deeper on the girls side, as compared to the boys side.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Hi Hurst!!! You are a funny, funny man! Yes, my GK daughter played for Wando, and sorry to inform you her leg is getting better daily. She should be good to go for her Ole Miss camp on Sunday. She will actually be playing her Senior year at IMG, so your curse is ineffective..LOL!! Actually she injured her hamstring playing field in the first game, which must have been a hoot to watch, since she hasn't played field in 5 years. I'm surprised she wasn't red-carded!  As far as the 91 and 92 girls go, I just heard from my daughter who is on the bus coming back, and there was only 1 Regional Pool holdover for SC girls, and that was 92 Alex Ramsey. Quite a contrast from last year, when 3 91's - Jade, Katie Tate and Morgan Thomas were all held over. As far as the 91 girls, they were just really short-handed, and some girls that have been on the team for years weren't in attendance for various reasons. I am sure the Coaches did a great job with the numbers they had. I do know that several players had been in Raleigh and were pretty tired, so that also may have played a role in the low attendance.
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Quote:
First for SC ODP, you would need to define what success is- holdovers, team success in advancing to ODP Nationals or player improvement. If its holdovers- that one is tricky to address due to the dynamics of the selection process. SC 92G beat Mississippi 3-2 while mostly resting a couple of players for pool games. Mississippi has 4 holdovers, SC 1. One of the NC holdovers didn’t start for her club team- behind other NC ODP players that did not get heldover. So it would be hard to design a system to make holdovers happen. Team successes are easier to address with more practices and training. The luck of the draw with your selected opponent in advancement games will often determine that potential success as well. SC ODP could opt for more training and practice but the costs would rise, along with the conflicts with high school soccer. Additional training sessions through the spring would mean high school players would be training almost every day. Injuries would rise and effectiveness would decrease. Additional summer training would conflict with regional preparation, camps, etc. Player improvement is already happening by training sessions, playing with and against top players in highly competitive games, etc. Additional training sessions training sessions would help, with the same problems outlined above.
SC ODP seems to have success in relation to states of similar size. Texas, GA, Florida and NC have much bigger pools and therefore it will always be tough to compete. The question is- what exactly would define success for SC ODP?
Fair questions. How about this?
Organizationally can we look at each age group and say that we did our best? That is, was the structure in place to give SC kids the same opportunity to excel and be seen as some kid from TX or GA or NC?
Soccer is interesting in that its very much an individual game....and also very much a team game. Unless a kid is Ronaldinho...to show well he needs to be able to play off of his/her teammates. That takes chemistry and trust which takes time to build.
If I were organizing ODP....there would be 2 training sessions in between the first tryout and the first subregional. I would schedule one Sunday per month in Feb, Mar, April, and May....for a 2-3 hour training session. I would schedule 2-3 training sessions in June. I would publish the training schedule when rosters were announced so that everyone knows the plan well in advance and can plan accordingly. I would schedule training sessions with other age groups where it made sense, so that each session could have 45 minutes or so of scrimmaging for tactical work.
If I'm organizing this....and this is what I bring to the table, with the quality coaches that the program already has...to me this is giving the kids "their money's worth".
In terms of state size.....that argument holds water for building teams, not for individual players. If population alone were the driver then India, China, and the US would be far ahead of Portugal, Spain, etc....and we know thats not the case.
There is no reason for SC not to be sending 2-3 kids to region pool every year, in every age group regardless of gender...and getting a kid on the region team in each age group by gender.
To accept less is wrong.
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EAsoccer9,
Your theory may hold some weight on the boys side, but does not explain the perceived shortcoming on the girls side.
Yesterday I had lunch with a D2 college coach who has coached college soccer in both North and South Carolina. He told me that he feels the talent pool in South Carolina is relatively deeper on the girls side, as compared to the boys side.
I don't think it holds weight on the boys side either. Its a valid argument for explaining why an NC team might do better at regions than a SC team. But not for ODP.
I doubt NC Club coaches are any more tolerant than SC high school coaches of a player missing practices or games. Actually, I think it would be HARDER to train an NC high school aged player becasue they are playing club and weekends....are when you play your games. By contrast....HS aged SC kids, for the most part, have their weekends off during the Spring. HS coach may schedule something....but its an exception, not the rule.
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Good structure that I think some of the teams already follow. I think the June trainings could be potentially a problem, though important for the teams. I think it would be good to have a weekend of games bewteen the SC ODP teams and the SC teams that are playing in regionals. This would help both teams prepare for their competitions and have SC soccer presnted in the best terms in both competitions. There would be significant SC crossovers between these teams so you might have to bring in NC or GA teams that are also particpating in regionals. This may be where SCYSA could help the process.
If the holdovers/region team numbers is the goal, having the teams play better together will enhance the possibility of that happening. However, there would also have to be a "different" behind the scenes campaign for SC players. Florida has way more region holdovers than their team success would indicate. The FL ODP group must have effective region strategies to place their players. If having region holdovers/region team members is the goal for SC ODP, then a better "marketing" campaign would need to be designed/implemented.
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Big Daddy,
The training schedule the 92 Boys have followed this season has been close to what you've outlined. The boys trained every Sunday starting right after tryouts in May and June and then finished with a two day camp prior to leaving for Alabama.
Also, I agree NC players who play club and odp have about an equal demand on their time as they likely train three nights per week, play on the weekends and then have odp practices. SC players train daily with their school teams and then train on Sundays for odp. I would think the time spent training and playing nets out to a very similar number.
The important thing is to have the commitment of the players selected to be in the pool based on the training they are getting. Selection to be on the team to attend Region Camp should be a reward for hard work and attendance during the entire training period.
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FirstTouch,
Valid points, but the prospect of coordinating games during the month of June is a problem. Teams preparing for Regional competition are and should be focused on that. ODP is secondary to the responsibility those players have at that time to their club teams.
Having said that, we (92 Boys) have found a happy medium by supplementing the club practices during May and June with odp practices. This model resulted in well attended training sessions every Sunday for this age group.
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Manchester, congrats on your age group having a great run!!!!
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Thanks Big Daddy. It sounds like they're enjoying it. The word is they've qualified for Nationals and seven players have been named for the pool game tonight.
Interestingly, we're missing two more "Pool Caliber" players who had to cancel at the last minute. One due to the death of his grandmother and another for personal health reasons. I'm told the boys are keeping these two teammates updated on their progress. A great group of kids and our prayers go out to their teammate who lost his grandmother.
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Quote:
First for SC ODP, you would need to define what success is- holdovers, team success in advancing to ODP Nationals or player improvement. If its holdovers- that one is tricky to address due to the dynamics of the selection process. SC 92G beat Mississippi 3-2 while mostly resting a couple of players for pool games. Mississippi has 4 holdovers, SC 1. One of the NC holdovers didn’t start for her club team- behind other NC ODP players that did not get heldover. So it would be hard to design a system to make holdovers happen. Team successes are easier to address with more practices and training. The luck of the draw with your selected opponent in advancement games will often determine that potential success as well. SC ODP could opt for more training and practice but the costs would rise, along with the conflicts with high school soccer. Additional training sessions through the spring would mean high school players would be training almost every day. Injuries would rise and effectiveness would decrease. Additional summer training would conflict with regional preparation, camps, etc. Player improvement is already happening by training sessions, playing with and against top players in highly competitive games, etc. Additional training sessions training sessions would help, with the same problems outlined above.
SC ODP seems to have success in relation to states of similar size. Texas, GA, Florida and NC have much bigger pools and therefore it will always be tough to compete. The question is- what exactly would define success for SC ODP?
from what i am told mississippi only has 1 hold over.
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Good structure that I think some of the teams already follow. I think the June trainings could be potentially a problem, though important for the teams. I think it would be good to have a weekend of games bewteen the SC ODP teams and the SC teams that are playing in regionals. This would help both teams prepare for their competitions and have SC soccer presnted in the best terms in both competitions. There would be significant SC crossovers between these teams so you might have to bring in NC or GA teams that are also particpating in regionals. This may be where SCYSA could help the process.
If the holdovers/region team numbers is the goal, having the teams play better together will enhance the possibility of that happening. However, there would also have to be a "different" behind the scenes campaign for SC players. Florida has way more region holdovers than their team success would indicate. The FL ODP group must have effective region strategies to place their players. If having region holdovers/region team members is the goal for SC ODP, then a better "marketing" campaign would need to be designed/implemented.
what do you mean by a "different" behind the scenes campaign for sc players.
it seems if sc had better results as a team then more players may be heldover.but it also looks from what you are saying is that fla is not having good results but are still getting the hold overs.
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Club practice generally starts August 1.
If all this advanced team ODP training takes place in June/July, (and those players whose teams have qualified for regionals are doing double-duty), then when do these players REST?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Club practice generally starts August 1.
If all this advanced team ODP training takes place in June/July, (and those players whose teams have qualified for regionals are doing double-duty), then when do these players REST?
in biology!!!
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Happy to report the defeat of GA ODP 92 Boys in Game 3. This opponent has 15 pool player selections and at least 2 region team players. Congratulations to the boys and ALL of their coaches (ODP, Club and HS) on a job well done. 9 Goals scored and 1 goal given up in three games. Looking forward to Nationals in January and hopefully some holdovers.
7-11-08
SC 92 Boys
Game 3: 0-1 at Halftime
Final: 2-1
Goals: Lunceford, Lunceford
Assists: Tuggle, 2nd not recorded yet
Opponent: Georgia
Pool Game: 11 Selected from 7-10
The makeup pool game has been cancelled . . . I guess because this is the same group that would be playing each other.
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Sorry to hear about the huge change in success between this year and last for the '91 girls. Any other observations you and or the team have regarding why this occurred would be helpful to know.
In January the '91 team finished 4th in the Region III ODP championships in Houston and earned the team as well as the state a higher level of respect than is generally afforded to SC. However, of that team at least 8, for a variety of reasons, did not participate in Alabama. While this had an obvious impact on the team going to Alabama (most of the 8 were starters in Houston), the lack of numbers resulting in keepers playing field positions and the team actually finishing the first game a player down may have had more to do with at least a couple of the 8 players not notifying SCYSA that they would not be attending until the first day of camp.
The '91 team that played in Alabama should be commended for its performance. It left everything it had on the fields, placed players in the pool games, and maintained its focus on those who did attend rather than those who did not. The effort did not go unnoticed by the regional staff.
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Considering the circumstances, they did well. Those girls need to go to work on getting all of the former players back out. It's a shame such talent apparently decided not to push for even more success.
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This camp was the final event for the '91 age group. They're done.
According to my daughter, the North Texas team that participated in Houston and went on to win the National ODP Championship for the '91s also lost quite a few of its players before coming to Alabama. The NTX team at this camp was reported to be made up of players from both Texas and Florida. Most of the "regulars" who did not attend from the different states dropped out of the program having already made verbal commitments to colleges. Players will make the decisions regarding participation that they need to make.
What hurt this year's '91 SC team was the lack of notice given by a couple of players. The players who went to Alabama representing SC as the '91 team became the 2008 team during the course of the camp. The players that didn't attend by dropping out ended their ODP experience as members of last year's team.
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Thanks for the clarification. The '07 team must have had 50% or so of players who just finished their junior year. That's the only reason I could see for commitments getting in the way of participation.
Our 92 squad only has five 10th graders. The rest have just finished the 9th grade. Interesting dynamic to consider moving forward.
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Deltadog - of the players who didn't participate as members of the '91 team, how many have already verbally committed to colleges?
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Delta Dog, You are right that the 91 Girls in attendance at Montevallo should be commended. I am sure their fight and heart did not go unnoticed. They actually had quite a few injuries also. My daughter told me that even though they were small in numbers, that she measured their success this year by the fact that they had a wonderful time bonding at this years camp - friendships forged that she hopes will last. When these girls face each other at the College level, as many will, they will have even greater respect for their opponent.
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Deltadog - of the players who didn't participate as members of the '91 team, how many have already verbally committed to colleges?
Of the 8 former members I know of at least 4 that have made verbal commitments. One of the 8 is still recovering from an injury during the High School season, and another passed on attending to attend a later camp at a college she is interested in. However, several of the players who did attend have also already made verbal commitments to colleges. One of the players in attendance graduated early and will be headed to the Citadel in two weeks to begin Fall training.
Given the subject of this thread, I guess you have to ask each player what she is looking to get from participation to determine "Is ODP worth it???". For those who participate only to gain exposure to the college coaches as part of the recruiting process, I guess having already made a verbal commitment would make participation this year not worth it. However, for those who participate to try out for an opportunity to play at the next level (state, regional and then national) participation would be worth it regardless of verbal commitments.
One of the national coaches often addresses the players before the subregional events, and he asks the players why they are there. After hearing a variety of reasons for attending he will reply, "No. You are here to try to make the national team." There are many great fringe benefits to participation in ODP, but the fundamental purpose of the program is to identify the individual players capable of someday playing as part of the US National Team.
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Thanks for the clarification. The '07 team must have had 50% or so of players who just finished their junior year. That's the only reason I could see for commitments getting in the way of participation.
Manchester, except for the money involved that really is the part I don't understand. What college coach out there having just gotten a verbal commitment from one of his or her recruits would not support that recruit's participation in the ODP process? Could you imagine Anson Dorrance standing in the way of his players participating in World Cup or the Olympics even though that participation may coincide with his on league schedule? While I fully respect any player's decision to not participate in ODP, I do not fully understand how verbal commitments play into the decision.
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My daughter is a member of the 91 girls ODP team that just got back from AL and was also a member of last years team that played in Houston. She verbally committed about 3 weeks ago. I can tell you that in every instance during the recruiting process we asked about going to ODP vs a college camp and they all said ODP is about the training and competition and recommended that she continue with ODP and if possible go to a college camp.
Tomorrow...is too late.
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Our 92 squad only has five 10th graders. The rest have just finished the 9th grade. Interesting dynamic to consider moving forward.
I think this is backwards. I only know of 5 9th graders, the rest are 10th graders or rising 11th graders. So next year from this team only 5 will be 10th graders. So will the 92 team have the same problem as the 91's did this year with so many rising seniors next year?
That there is an RV Clark......
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Our 92 squad only has five 10th graders. The rest have just finished the 9th grade. Interesting dynamic to consider moving forward.
I think this is backwards. I only know of 5 9th graders, the rest are 10th graders or rising 11th graders. So next year from this team only 5 will be 10th graders. So will the 92 team have the same problem as the 91's did this year with so many rising seniors next year?
ODP participation on a college player's profile is a plus. I can't imagine any college coach asking players not to participate because of a verbal commitment. If players from the 91 team didn't participate in the camp strictly because of verbal commitments it would be helpful for those coming up to have a full understanding of why such a decision was made.
Why abandon a successful team which gives every player a shot a playing at the regional or national level?
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SC ODP 92 Boys Holdovers:
Walas
Lunceford
Palma
DeMare
Nobles
Limbaugh
Garbanzo
Congratulations SC ODP 92 Boys and Coaches!
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I did not say not to play. I was simply asking a question and stating that only 5 of the 92 team will be rising juniors next year the rest will be rising seniors, and would they have the same problem as the 91"s did this year. My daughter has had a great experiance with ODP.
That there is an RV Clark......
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I did not say not to play. I was simply asking a question and stating that only 5 of the 92 team will be rising juniors next year the rest will be rising seniors, and would they have the same problem as the 91"s did this year. My daughter has had a great experiance with ODP.
i think there will be the same problem.maybe not as bad but some of the same.
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I agree with advantages of the ODP program. But I do understand why a player that has spent her or his last 5-6 summers training all summer, want to take a break before commiting themselves to the college training and studies, if they have already committed to a school. Also alot of the colleges require or expect early commitments to attend their camps, which was the case for one of the 91's this year. The 92G team has been very competitive the last two years, at region. I hope they all come back next year.
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I agree with advantages of the ODP program. But I do understand why a player that has spent her or his last 5-6 summers training all summer, want to take a break before commiting themselves to the college training and studies, if they have already committed to a school. Also alot of the colleges require or expect early commitments to attend their camps, which was the case for one of the 91's this year. The 92G team has been very competitive the last two years, at region. I hope they all come back next year.
That makes sense, but it would be great for future teams to work hard to find a way to go the extra mile to ensure the continued success of their ODP team.
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I agree with advantages of the ODP program. But I do understand why a player that has spent her or his last 5-6 summers training all summer, want to take a break before commiting themselves to the college training and studies, if they have already committed to a school. Also alot of the colleges require or expect early commitments to attend their camps, which was the case for one of the 91's this year. The 92G team has been very competitive the last two years, at region. I hope they all come back next year.
That makes sense, but it would be great for future teams to work hard to find a way to go the extra mile to ensure the continued success of their ODP team.
At least one of the college coaches in attendance this week doesn't seem overly impressed that his recruit decided not to attend last week's camp after accepting an offer and making a verbal commitment to attend his college.
Given the apparent importance placed on the program by the college coaches, players making verbal commitments to colleges might want to discuss post-commitment ODP participation with his/her future college coach before dropping out of the program. It may be possible the coach would rather the player continue participation in the program rather than attend his/her camp if the player is only capable of attending one.
By the way, Manchester, it is an excellent article you posted in another thread on the benefits of participating in ODP... http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107604&an=0&page=0#Post107604
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I agree with advantages of the ODP program. But I do understand why a player that has spent her or his last 5-6 summers training all summer, want to take a break before commiting themselves to the college training and studies, if they have already committed to a school. Also alot of the colleges require or expect early commitments to attend their camps, which was the case for one of the 91's this year. The 92G team has been very competitive the last two years, at region. I hope they all come back next year.
That makes sense, but it would be great for future teams to work hard to find a way to go the extra mile to ensure the continued success of their ODP team.
At least one of the college coaches in attendance this week doesn't seem overly impressed that his recruit decided not to attend last week's camp after accepting an offer and making a verbal commitment to attend his college.
Given the apparent importance placed on the program by the college coaches, players making verbal commitments to colleges might want to discuss post-commitment ODP participation with his/her future college coach before dropping out of the program. It may be possible the coach would rather the player continue participation in the program rather than attend his/her camp if the player is only capable of attending one.
By the way, Manchester, it is an excellent article you posted in another thread on the benefits of participating in ODP... http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107604&an=0&page=0#Post107604
was this player the coach was talking about a texas or fla kid.for them,participating in odp is a year long process of games and practices and im sure is a benifit for staying in soccer shape.in sc the coaches are giving all the time they can and working to make things better but im not sure how a handful of practices will make that much difference to a coach.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 836
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 836 |
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I agree with advantages of the ODP program. But I do understand why a player that has spent her or his last 5-6 summers training all summer, want to take a break before commiting themselves to the college training and studies, if they have already committed to a school. Also alot of the colleges require or expect early commitments to attend their camps, which was the case for one of the 91's this year. The 92G team has been very competitive the last two years, at region. I hope they all come back next year.
That makes sense, but it would be great for future teams to work hard to find a way to go the extra mile to ensure the continued success of their ODP team.
At least one of the college coaches in attendance this week doesn't seem overly impressed that his recruit decided not to attend last week's camp after accepting an offer and making a verbal commitment to attend his college.
Given the apparent importance placed on the program by the college coaches, players making verbal commitments to colleges might want to discuss post-commitment ODP participation with his/her future college coach before dropping out of the program. It may be possible the coach would rather the player continue participation in the program rather than attend his/her camp if the player is only capable of attending one.
By the way, Manchester, it is an excellent article you posted in another thread on the benefits of participating in ODP... http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107604&an=0&page=0#Post107604
I can easily see where a coach would draw a less than flattering conclusion about a player he/she has signed opting out of the program, but maybe I'm wrong. It was be great to hear the opinions of some college coaches on the issue.
And thanks for the compliment on the article. I thought the ones I found were spot on.
Imagine. Believe. Achieve.
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