SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP MPSC

Can someone explain to me why MPSC has all the numbers but lacks the number of competitive soccer teams that would be expected from such a large organization?

Becasue parents keep paying the money but don't ask the tough question you just did. I'd look at how they train and then look at the lack of schedule against competitive teams.

In fairness to MPSC, I like what they are doing with their younger teams. Following the CESA model, they are playing some some of their teams up in age.

Good question - let's keep in mind that results do not happen overnight - it is a process that takes time. MPSC has some very good teams that will continue to improve this season. Some teams are playing up this year and will hopefully prove themselves in the state league.

I think some of you are touching on something. When discussions were proceeding between Bridge and MPSC, MPSC had a large micro program. At that time the decision makers at MPSC had hired a new director, and made the decision to allow a new academy approach the time to develop these very young players, with the anticipated result of producing more competitive teams in the future. Time will tell if that decision was a good one, but I believe some of these younger players are now moving up in age to be in the "visible" ages. I say visible ages because most of the competitive talk happens beginning at U13.

That's not to say that arsenal2 doesn't have a point, but that's one that truly only time will tell, and it's not too long from now.

Bear, you are correct about MPSC using the academy approach with their younger teams. These initial teams are now approaching the U12-U13 age group. As an example, both the MPSC U12 boys and girls' elite teams are playing up and will be playing 11v11 in the U13 Challenge league this fall. Bigsoccerballs, until you have seen some of these teams compete, I wouldn't be quick to judge and question "their competitiveness". As for arsenal2's comment that "parents keep paying the money but don't ask the tough question.......", I'm sure MPSC's DOC and staff would beg to differ! If parents didn't ask tough questions, I guarantee you they they would have a lot more time on their hands and a lot less headaches.........

Looks like this thread may become interesting again.

a2 - why?

I hear there are some changes there

Does anybody want to share any details?

Well A2 was correct concerning changes. I just got off the phone with a respected source who stated the DOC has resigned. No other details.

Who is their DOC

Jeremy Aven

If that is true, that could work in favor of the Bridge

If true this would be the best thing for Mount Pleasant Soccer. Hopefully others will be leaving as well and Mount Pleasant Soccer can do damage control!

I've spoken with several folks in the club and they all say he's gone and more may follow.

Funny he would resign just as the season was starting...could not agree more with bigsoccer...good for MPSC and hopefully others will follow.

I understand it was a forced resignation from City of MP.

that's what happens when your in it for the $$ and not for the kids sake. He seemed to be a very controlling person.

How does this effect the current teams that are rostered and registered?

Biggest Fan, I am interested to know how you are able to make assumptions about an individual you dont know?? (Or at least that is what you have made us believe!)

Don't know but maybe some of the kids who wanted to leave and go to different clubs will have the opportunity without the threats and pressure from DOC.

Soccerrules, please help me understand ...

So a parent allows the 'threats and pressure' of another individual to determine what is in the best interest of their own child??

If true, it appears we are pointing the finger in the wrong direction!

(I am by no means agreeing with the DOC's actions - if of course they are true!)

I understand where you are coming from , but actually it should be the kids decision where they want to play.
He must have really done some wrong things to be pushed out at this time of year .

Too true!

Do you think it has something to do with the restructuring within the City?

http://www.mpsoccer.com/NewStaff.htm

Your right, I don't know him personally. I do however know several that played for MP and have left for a better competitive team and I was surprised to hear of his actions toward the kids and their families that were wanting to leave.

By my count this make it two DOC 'resignations' in the past few weeks. What's going on in the Coastal District?

Who's the other doc??

Charleston United

Depending on who he's replaced with...this could either be the best thing that's happened to MPSC or something that's not so good.

A lot of focus was being put on individual skills all the time with coaches being told not to talk to the younger kids while they're playing, so as they aged up, they had less and less experience with passing, which only gets more important as you get older, and didn't have the experience with knowing real time mistakes that they made so they could watch for and correct them in the future. Coaches were also not informed when they were removed from teams, or when other changes were being "ordered" but not passed down, with a general huge issue with communication from directors to coaches.

A lot of the bureaucratic problems pushed people to other clubs, unfortunately. The club has some excellent U12 academy teams though, so if their coaching quality is good, hopefully those coaches will stay with them as they go up and it can be the start of a renewal of prestige for the club.

This is the perfect opportunity for the Bridge, MP and CU to merge and become the powerhouse in this area. Now that some egos are out of the way. let's do this for the kids...not the parents and the doc's

As for Charleston United, I see there contact information shows St. Andrews Park & Recreation. Was there some type of merger with St. Andrews in order to tap into the rec program there? Also, the former DOC is listed as the head trainer and Vice President of the club. I am not sure of any details other than what the website shows.

86, Does passing only get taught on Saturday's and Sunday's?

Obviously, I am in favor of coaches being less vocal on game day!

(Now, I venture to bet that we both would have a tough time finding any coach who would be silent the entire game - regardless of who ordered it!)

Reccos...Adidaskitten is right on the mark with her comments.
Passing wasn't even taught on weekends, coaches were constantly silenced by the DOC, look at how many different coaches have come and gone in the last 2-3 years. Quality coaches.

Biggest fan is true about the $$$ and not the kids....$100 per player for extra training...that wasn't run or overseen by the teams coaches. It's a money grab.

Arsenal2, I have no affiliation with MPSC so I am unable to comment on any internal Club matters ..

However, I dont agree that a more vocal coach, on a Saturday or a Sunday, results in a more 'experienced' player!

Recco...I agree about vocalization. However a coach has a style, and if you as a DOC hire him to coach....let them coach. That did not happen here.

CUSC is still alive and well; we have merged with SAPP as of 8/14. Apparently St. Andrews made the decision that we did not need a DOC position for this year, but Andy Grist is now the club VP, still does coaching and skills training, and is still a valuable part of the club. The merger has so far been pretty well seamless from a coach's perspective; our day-to-day operations really haven't changed, and if anything we can give players even more bang for their buck.

Can't shed any light on MPSC...I don't know anything about the goings-on across the bridge.

My point was more that coaches were told sometimes that they should stay totally silent and only speak at the half or end of the game. I agree that coaches shouldn't be controlling the game through being vocal, but at younger ages like U10, a small amount helps remind the girls to keep an eye out for offsides, or certain other things, until they develop the maturity to be able to be conscious of it on their own.

Plus the fact that some encouragement, a "good job" or "great shot" from the sideline can be a good thing...heck, my girls get upset with me when they CAN'T hear my voice during a game. If it's positive coaching and encouragment rather than negative comments or micromanagement, I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with the coach being part of the team, even on game day.

Andy is coaching at MPSC........ Maybe he has the inside track.

Random question...whatever happened to the old trend of a coach coaching one team and moving up with that team through the age groups?

That was the general norm back when I played and we all moved up, usually, with our coach from U11 select until we graduated.

I know MPSC coaches coach 2-3 teams each, so it made me wonder in case anyone knows why. It can't totally be coaching shortages, because I know a half dozen quality coaches who were simply turned away or fired.

Adidas....they were afraid that the kids would get to "close" to a coach if they coached them for a few years. It would then be easy for the coach to go to The Bridge and take the whole team with them. Also if coaches didn't coach the way the DOC wanted them to, they were gone. You had coaches who never questioned the DOC on training, tournaments or anything.
Having coaches coach 2-3 teams was all about the money and ability to control the coaches.

I do not see where the money is different if you have one coach coaching two teams as opposed to one coach for every team..other than one coach is out and the other is getting fees for coaching two teams so he or she makes more but they doubled the work load. I do believe that some coaches work better with certain age groups than others..What one coach can do with ten and eleven year olds may not have the same impact on fifthteens and sixteens or be able to give them what they need such as tactical play and less skill taught and the opposite would be taught to younger age groups..
Does not sound like Mr Aven has to many friends in this thread but that comes with the job as DOC..Making decisions others will not like..Do not know the man but I will say that I have seen some talented young teams at MPSC and I wish them the best in finding someone to run the club

Looking at MPSC's website..It looks like they are keeping the changes in house and some of the coaches are filling positions that were made available..

kitten,

I'm fond of the good old days as well. It's nice when a team and a coach can grow together.

In MPSC's defense, cht is right. Many high-level clubs now have paid coaches coaching multiple teams, and many put a 2-year limit on the relationship because:

1. It's good to expose kids to new ideas, tactics, philosophies.
2. Some coaches do very well coaching in a certain gender and age range.

My kids have learned alot of different playing styles and tactics from different coaches and have developed many friendships with these trainers..I believe they are better players because of the coaching changes..A new coach every two years is going to do what's best for the team and not a few players because he or she knows that their time with them is limited

I can see how having different perspectives is good...I guess we got lucky because we had other trainers come in sometimes to run our practices, one was the U15 National Coach, and we also had an assistant coach who was a college player who'd run practices and stuff, plus we all had JV and Varsity, so we got multiple exposures anyway.

I did love the fact that we literally became a family though and the relationship we had with our coach was pretty phenomenal once we hit U13+.

And, of course, correlation does not mean causation, but MPSC had better records back when that was the norm. I also think it can be a good experience for new coaches, to grow with a team and learn their strong points and weak points and how to adapt with different age groups.

Gender, I won't argue about, lol. I think you have to be predisposed to being able to coach either. I don't think I could handle boys, they'd be running suicides all the time because I don't have the patience for male posturing and cheap shots or fighting.

Players tended to stay at home with their local clubs back then also so that probably had an impact on win/loss records.Today there are alot more players traveling further for practices and weighing their options as to where they play

True. I can only remember two people who ever went up to Greenville and that was to join the GFC U18 team that Lindsay Beam played for.

It also helps though when you don't have to look elsewhere because there're quality teams nearby. It's when other clubs far distance themselves that people start moving, like CESA.

I think there may also be a correlation between people having the same coaches year to year and people staying at home with their local clubs--which, in turn, affects the local clubs' win/loss record. People form relationships with other people, not with organizations...when players don't know from year to year who they're going to be working with and playing for, they don't have much to lose by looking elsewhere. When they find a team and a coach (or coaches) they enjoy working with and there's a consistency from year to year, I think most players are less likely to jump from club to club. A solid player/team/coach relationship has staying power, whereas a more clinical rotation of players and coaches doesn't do much to inspire loyalty.

Good comment coach..One thing I will add is as you move up the competitive ladder..Loyalty takes a back seat to being able to produce on the field..

This is very true, and it can work both ways, depending on the situation. In some cases, loyalty may put players at odds with placing themselves in the most challenging and competitive situations. On the other hand, loyalty and commitment to a team and the other people who make it up can help to bring out the best in players; when they know the system and the expectations and actually care about the success of everyone involved, it often helps them to tap into that extra ounce of effort that can make a significant positive difference in how they perform on the field. "Heart" is one of those intangibles that it's almost impossible to quantify or predict, but it can have visible effects on player and team success.

Loyalty is part of teamwork...something not stressed at MPSC.
To be successful you need teamwork, loyalty is a big part of team trust. Teamwork takes time and effort from all. You cannot just throw 13-14 kids together and expect them to play as a team. Which is what is going on at MPSC. U-11 boys and U-13 boys as examples right now.

Good point, a2; individual skill is of course important, but a group of players tossed together will simply be a collection of individual abilities, while a true team will always be greater than the sum of its parts.

I have been out of soccer for 4 years so I am not going to say what is right or wrong about MPSC but I also find it amusing how many people from outside the organization know some much about it.
It would be the same as me saying the problem with Bridge is their DOC, and since I have never had a kid play for them I have absolutely know idea.

Swimmer,

Just a thought here. Maybe some of these people discussing these issues have children playing at MPSC.

Many in the soccer community, parents and coaches, are pleased with Jeremy's removal and were hoping to see others removed with him. Did Matt P. get removed also? Again, such a big club with very few quality results compared to other clubs of the same size.

Bigsoccerballs....Matt P. did not get removed. I am assuming your reference to "others" means him ?

Most I have spoken to over the last few days concur wholeheartedly with you.

Timing was bad....is only negative I've heard.

This is the link to the club website with the new positions and people. Matt is still with the club as Academy DoC and Kian Brownlee was promoted to Select DoC.

http://mpsoccer.com/OurClub.htm

It'll be interesting to see where the club goes in the next few years, whether there will be more changes and this is only temporary or whatever. I just hope they'll adopt a better attitude than "skills, skills, skills. We want an American Ronaldinho and you can always learn to pass later." Cos number one, Ronaldinho didn't become Ronaldinho because they did skills in practice; he became Ronaldinho because he spent every moment outside of practice taking what he'd learned and working it and adapting it. And number two, anyone who says you can learn to pass later has never coached girls...I grew up with people who STILL hadn't learned that passing = good by the age of 16, on a Premier League team.

I hear ya,Kitten..Very good comment..The other thing that to much skill and less teamwork causes is the ball hog later on who hurts the team because they don't know when to give up the ball and sometimes they never get it and end up hurting the team more than contributing to the team. I have not met a player yet that can dribble past the whole team

Fireant -
Don't doubt some do butI will bet a beer at Battery game that a majority of those commenting don't.
How about you?

ps Sorry Christy Arnold left.

CHT - Show me a highlight real of when Bucktooth was young and I will show you a Ball Hog!!

AK - Buck Tooth perfected his 'ball hog' skills on the streets of Brazil! His teachers (coaches) were his hero's!

How did AI, Kobe, and D-Wade get so good?

Anyone can pick an player..Name me a ball hog from South Carolina that plays on the world's stage and let's keep it in soccer..Basketball? five players on the court gives you alittle more time with the ball

CHT - You missed the point completely! But that's OK ...

Reccos, I'm not sure if you're just reaffirming what I said or not...but just in case, I'll clarify that that is what I mean. Ronaldinho got so good because he took what his coaches taught him and worked it every spare moment outside of practice, ie on the streets, in empty lots, on sidewalks, etc.

AK - Not.

Whilst I do not know for a fact, I venture to bet that his skill was not a result of instruction - but self taught!

(Hence my unwelcome analogy of today's BB stars who developed their amazing talents in the local gymnasium, and not from a whistle carrying coach!!)

That's my point, ie, he did it himself, not with what was done in practice.

AK & CHT, I apologize for not being able to get my point across succintly.

I will now exit the building to my left ...

Missed it the first time but I understand your point now..I did not take the IT factor into consideration

I cant speak to the internal workings of MPSC, but we were fortunate enough to have experienced one of their coaches during a summer camp. I believe it was the acadamy director but can't say for sure. We were impressed with his coaching skills / techniques and how well he interacted with the kids. They may have issues, but it appears they do have the coaching talent. I suppose that finding the right balance of quality coaching, leadership, and politics is the goal of every club.

Again, I don't know anything about the management or politics of the club, but I do know some folks who are coaching with MPSC. There are good people working there--coaches that I would not hesitate to trust to train and work with .

Hopefully they can get their stuff straitened out. It's a shame that a club with the numbers and resources($$) doesn't
have better teams. The real shame is the kids are the ones who are being shorted. Don't fool yourself, all this drama here has been about $$$$ and who is going to control it, not
about what is best for the children in the club and their soccer "development". There are a lot of good kids who don't play there because of all the BS.

Yeah, hopefully things will start to look better for the club and in the next few years, maybe they'll begin working up the quality teams it used to be known for. Give any family the excuse and they'll stay in Charleston because no one really wants to make the three hour or two hour drive to Greenville or Columbia. They just have to have the incentive in quality to stay here instead of flocking to CESA for their teams.