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Marcus:
How many schools were interested in your daughter grades during her recruiting ?
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Do schools really care about a blue chip players grades? My answer is no.
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to be honest,we didnt talk about money with all of them because she knew some were not schools she was going to attend but of the schools money was discussed the answer would be 1.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 10/15/08 06:04 PM.
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Don't be shy, how about the school that gave her a full ride, did they ask about grades?
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Great answer. For two years I have read on this message board how important a players grades were in order to play college soccer due to the fact that their was very little money from the soccer side. I guess if you can play at a high level, grades aren't a factor.
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They are a factor if you want to graduate college
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Quote:
They are a factor if you want to graduate college
i dont think he is talking about being stupid. he is just saying your grades do not always come into play when getting offers from colleges.
i bet there are some football players graduate with bad grades. 
im going to my deer stand and sweat out this cold.yall finish the argument.
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I would think it would depend on the school. If the player goes to a big state school like USC or Alabama where it is easier to get in academically, then grades outside of meeting the NCAA requirements probabably are not a factor. If the player is looking at a school which is academically selective or smaller, Duke, Wake Forrest, Furman for example, it probably matters a little more. I believe all schools have verbal offers contingent on applying to the school and being accepted by admissions. One selective school coach said they have had given verbal offers to players who then did not get accepted into the school when they went through the admissions process. Upon which the athletic scholarship was null and void. Like everything there is probably no definitive answer. I would say grades matter but how much depends on the academically selectivity and size of the school. As evidence of Furman beating Clemson, the larger state school does not always have the higher level of soccer players.
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i think what sweet feet was getting at was more of grades not having as much to do with how much money you get to play soccer at a school.especially if you go out of state.i would assume we all know that grades are important for getting into school.
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Good players get soccer money and lots of playing time good students get academic money and earn playing time. Everyone will agree soccer players for the most part due well in the classroom.
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Funny; I was just having this discussion with a couple of my club players just last evening at practice. Of the ones who want to continue playing after high school, some were looking at large, state-supported schools (Clemson, USC, VT, etc.) and others were looking at more academically rigorous colleges (Brown, Duke, etc.). At the larger state-supported schools, not many are going to look at grades as a draw for scholarship money--you get athletic scholarships for athletics, academic scholarships for academics--as long as the grades are sufficient for entrance requirements.
At a university with very rigorous academic standards, though, I think grades will come more into play when evaluating players; with the higher academic demands, athletic programs seem to be less likely to invest scholarship money in players unless their grades indicate that they will be able to stick with and complete the academic program while playing a sport. It would be risky to invest in players who are likely to (A) not pass courses and therefore not remain with the university for their years of eligibility or (B) have to drop out of a sport in order to meet academic requirements. So, some athletic programs will be looking for blue chip players regardless of grades, and others will be looking for blue chip players who can also make the grade.
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Coach Chass:
Excellent post, however wouldn't you agree most female soccer players you know that are looking to play college soccer are for the most part excellent students.
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I would agree that most are indeed better than average. I've often said (and had evidence to back it up) that soccer has the best overall academic average of any varsity sport on our campus. Still, there is also that player here and there who excels at the sport, but who struggles in the classroom...that player who would really shine on a college athletic team, but not so much in the college academic environment. It's those on-the-bubble players who will see the most difference in opportunity when looking at colleges with different levels of academic rigor.
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Now that we decided that for the most part..soccer players do better than average in the classroom..The next decision to make for a player would be..Go to a smaller school and play more or choose the larger program and play less..I guess the first decision should be what school is going to be best for the career field that one wants to follow in..Soccer will come to an end after college for most female players..unless they go into coaching the sport
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Agreed. The vast majority of players will not continue a soccer career beyond college, therefore the first consideration would be how to be best prepared for the years that follow. I tell my players to first pick a college that suits their academic and career needs, and then choose the best playing options from within that group.
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I agree with Coach Chass to a certain extent.... Having gone through this process, grades are very important.
1- they determine the seriousness of the player to the coach
2- they provide a long term view of the player in the program. i.e. will be able to perform in school and be available for the sport
3- You have to take footbal and basketball comparisons out of the equation they are not comparable.
4- having good grades means higher state assistance and therefore lower need for athletic money
5- for private schools, good grades means lots of available money. Thus Furman, Wofford, Davidson, etc. can have athletes attend a school that charges $38000/year without large athletic assistance....i.e. grants, etc.
So if you believe that grades are not important you are wrong.
No school offers a full ride on athletic money alone for soccer. If you have this enviable situation, your kid should consider turning pro as obviously he/she is extremely gifted in the sport and playing college ball would take away from earning potential.
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Agree totally with futbol. Grades are very important and can make a huge difference. Also allows the coach to put together a complete scholarship package for the player. It shouldn't matter what percent is from athletic vs academic. You must realize women only have 11 and men 9 scholarships to give and they roster 24-32 players. Do the math.
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we all know grades are important.that is a no brainer.i think we all know that good grades get you more in state money.you cant get into school with bad grades.now that we have that out of the way,i do not think sweet feet is talking about the same thing some of you are.
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Now that we decided that for the most part..soccer players do better than average in the classroom..The next decision to make for a player would be..Go to a smaller school and play more or choose the larger program and play less..I guess the first decision should be what school is going to be best for the career field that one wants to follow in..Soccer will come to an end after college for most female players..unless they go into coaching the sport
you are assuming that just because a player goes to a big school they will sit the bench and a small school player will not.can you tell me how you came to that conclusion.i would think a good player would play no matter the size of the school.
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Quote:
Agree totally with futbol. Grades are very important and can make a huge difference. Also allows the coach to put together a complete scholarship package for the player. It shouldn't matter what percent is from athletic vs academic. You must realize women only have 11 and men 9 scholarships to give and they roster 24-32 players. Do the math.
most DI womens programs from what i am told have 14 scholarships.not all roster that many. some roster only 20 but i have seen as high as 39.
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My answer is, "very important." This is for a couple of reasons. Now tell me - what percentage of the SC club players have the abilities necessary to play at in top level DI program? Okay, now what percentage have the ability to play at a lower tier DI or at a DII school? Now that we all see that this is the vast majority of those that are actually going to play college ball, grades play a very important part in the determination of the total award.
Let's take DII - most have a TOTAL of anywhere from 3 to 5 scholarships. That's it folks - Total. Twenty girls dividing up 3-5 tuition and fees does not add up to a whole lot. Also consider that the coach has to give out of state players enough $$ to bring their costs down to the in-state level. This leaves very little left over for everyone else.
The private schools have the ability to supplement the award with "academic" money. This is their way of getting the player more athletic money yet stay within their conference's guidelines. This award IS based solely on grades and SAT scores.
Clear as mud? Thus, grades are very important.
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ok now that everyone has had their say on important grades can someone tell me what grades and sat scores are needed for the scholarship money you can get.for example.. 1000 sat score and a 3.0 gets you what? does a 1100 and 3.5 get you more?
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Agreed. The vast majority of players will not continue a soccer career beyond college, therefore the first consideration would be how to be best prepared for the years that follow. I tell my players to first pick a college that suits their academic and career needs, and then choose the best playing options from within that group. [/quote
since it will be there last few years of playing soccer should the soccer program be considered when making your choice.i understand the academic part.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 10/16/08 04:48 PM.
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Agree totally with futbol. Grades are very important and can make a huge difference. Also allows the coach to put together a complete scholarship package for the player. It shouldn't matter what percent is from athletic vs academic. You must realize women only have 11 and men 9 scholarships to give and they roster 24-32 players. Do the math.
most DI womens programs from what i am told have 14 scholarships.not all roster that many. some roster only 20 but i have seen as high as 39.
i just read they allow a DI school to have 12 for the womens.9.9 DII.the men are getting shafted.
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I think once a player has a set of options that will satisfy future career needs (as well as any location and financial considerations), then it's time to choose among those based on the quality and "fit" of the soccer programs. If these really are the last years of organized soccer for a player, I would want them to be rewarding--something they can look back on with pride. And yes, there are many more factors in whether any given player will sit the bench or play other than just the overall size of the program.
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Marcus,
yes..it is an assumption on my part..there are cases where Freshmen might start..I think it's a no brainer that a strong player would play more at a smaller school than let's say North Carolina..The bigger the school..The bigger the talent pool
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Shafted...!!!!???
try 85 full rides for football that have to be made up for women via title IX
Whether one likes to think of it or not, the reality is...this is a business transaction.
This transaction generates an asset (player) for which a return on the investment is expected (season play).
Most schools bring in 5 to 10 kids in a given year but have 9.9 men/14 women (d1 schools - I have note read 12 yet) to give away every year for a team comprised of approximately 25 players.
In this asset purchasing mode (recruiting) you need to know which assets are fully devalued by the time this asset comes in (graduation/left school). In all these cases you have a complex formula which has very little capital to use.
If the asset's cost is low due to high efficiency (good grades) then the amount needed to purchase this asset is lower and the left over capital can be used to purchase other assets.
If the asset is locally supplied delivery is usually cheaper (in state tuition), thus the cost is lower still.
Now as the owner of the business (coach) needs to make money (feed the family), they sometimes look for assets (perceived to be better) away from the local area. There is a cost to this asset but the ROI is perceived to be better.
Most schools accept this expense and allow the coach to "spend" accordingly. A private school has the ability, but as a tax payer I have a problem with giving money to out of country players to attend a public school... we can argue all day long about athletic budgets, just remember not everyone is USC or Clemson.In my opinion the money should be spent on state player first, american second.
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I got a feeling Big Daddy will be entering the conversation soon......
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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i thought it was 14 and im sure it is but i wanted to make sure.i puched in college soccer scholarship and the first site i went to said 12.
as far as shafted i meant mens soccer.i dont want to go down this road but im sure the football programs 85 helps bring in more money than soccer.i know someone is going to say usc is loosing money on football but i dont see it.they just loose games.
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Playing time is also associated with team make-up and need.
if the team is senior laden and very skilled ... you will sit the bench.
On most D1 schools freshmen rarely start some get playing time. USC men have two freshmen starting one of which is a local Dutch fork kid....So it happens but it is the exception not the rule.
When looking at schools Coach Chass hits the nail on the head pick the school that best suits you academically and then see how the program looks. Then see the roster makeup.... Lander University men program has something like 34 players.......ONE!!!.....ONE is a senior.... 15 are freshmen. Why would I want to go to Lander next year when my chances are low of stepping on the field in the next 2 years?
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Nah....interesting arguments.
Though my guess is that the controller at a University will
see the costs related to athletic scholarships as expenses, not assets.
Though I like the depreciation/eligibility analogy.
Bottom line is coaches have a pool of money to divvy up. You can go local or you can go offshore (anything not local). Offshore will cost more.....so hopefully the payoff is worth it. Going local allows a coach to pull in things like lottery money for kids with decent grades, which allows him more flexibility with money.
So grades matter for in state schools and they matter for private schools where eligbile academic money may exceed athletic money.
The whole instate-outstate-foreign thing is another argument. Coaches get paid to win and that tough to do without good players. So coaches have to recruit the best players they can....while balancing the constraints of a player-scholarship ratio of at least 2 players per scholarship.
Its like the NFL and a salary cap...if you spend all your money on Tom Brady and Randy Moss or Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison....who's going to keep Urlacher out of your backfield?
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I like the word lurking. Kind of like skulking.
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assets to the program, expenses to the controller...agreed
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My guess is there's a formula out there. Med get 9.9 scholarships.
Full scholarships: we award 1 per year to best available player, regardless of where they are. Cost = 4 scholarships
1/2 scholarships: we award four 1/2 scholarships. Cost = 2 scholarships. 3.9 scholarships remaining.
1/3rd scholarships: we award 11 1/3rd scholarships. Cost = 3.66 scholarships.
A little less than a 1/4 scholarship: 1 player.
I have 20 players getting some form of scholarship, balance are walk ons trying to earn their way in.
My guess is.....you probably have more than 4 kids on full rides. Say 6....plus 4 halfrides. 10 kids on decent scholarships and everyone else is looking for a piece of 1.9 scholarships.
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A machine with a 25 year life is an asset. A tool that goes on the machine that wears out after awhile....is an expense.
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all in a point of view... in your point the program is the asset, the player the tool. in my view the program is the building in which I house my assets which depreciate as time goes by.
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If you are being recruited by a college, one of the first questions should be, "how may scholarships do you have."
Sure, whether the allowed number is 9, 12 or 14, the conferences and school most often limit them to less.
Again, I would be shocked if any school other than the top DI's have a number even close to the allowed.
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Futbol:
Sorry ur wrong, several schols offer full soccer money.
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give me an example...sweet feet...we are talking full athletic scholarship for soccer
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It seems logical to me that if a coach is looking at two players of roughly equal ability, and one can get academic scholarship money while the other cannot, he will go with the academic scholarship player, and free up some of his athletic money to recruit other players. I have heard college coaches say this on several occasions. I suppose there are some players who are so good that grades won't matter, but for the vast majority I don't see how they would not.
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Futbol:
I'll only use the schools I have 1st hand knowledge of:
University of Florida
Florida State
SMU
Tennessee
LSU
Alabama
University of Miami
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Grades are vey important!
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