SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Disney's Soccer Showcase (sub limits)

wow - this rule change for Disney could be tricky especially on the girls side where this is not the norm in league play or other tournament games. when you come out of the game, you're done playing for the match. this is in effect for both boys and girls games u16 and up. 7 subs is the limit per game.

http://disneyworldsports.disney.go.com/d...Page&bhcp=1

That's going to be a crazy rule for the tournament (I know that's how the BIG leagues operate). Since it's a showcase, it's going to make for some serious conflicts with playing time. If a college coach only comes for 1 half and it's the half you're out- you're out of luck. Plus guest players will really make for some interesting problems. If a familiy spends the money to go to Disney, their players should get playing time. But the starters, especially the offensive starters, would never be in the game at the end.

being a showcase i think this is a bad move. most all coaches on the girl's side have zero experience in preparing match plans for their teams with this sub rule in effect and the players, too.

This is a great rule for regular season matches, but TERRIBLE for a Showcase.

This rule is similar to the new academy league rules regarding subs. I think its good, players would now fully understand the privilege they have when they take the field. Players would give greater effort to stay on, plus it forces coaches to be more creative, or show more tactical prowess

Good points..I agree..It makes the strong players stay in shape so they can perform on the field for 90 minutes..Instead of coming on and off at will

Will this sub-limit rule for Disney be changed on the girls side?

Do the club coaches even know of it?

How can Disney be a “Showcase” event and not have free sub limits? Isn’t the main reason Disney is so highly touted is for player’s exposure to college coaches at the u16 and up ages? Can you image UNC/Dorrance dropping by a game to see a player and she’s already been subbed out and can’t get back in the game. With limited time to watch players, college coaches do not hang around to watch a full game.

The girl's side have the same rule per the website list of rules. It is defintely not in the best interest of the players wishing to be seen. A lot of coaches used to sub MORE at Showcases to give each player a chance.

I'm pretty sure that "UNC/Dorrance" is not going to go to a game to look at a girl who is going to be subbed out by her team. If she is good enough for UNC she is going to play the whole game.

So if a team is fortunate enough to have more than 11 deserving, quality players--or more than one deserving, quality player for a specific position (keeper, for example), where does that logic leave them? Only 11 can start. If you don't put the "other" deserving player in at all, you're saying he/she isn't worth looking at...if you put the sub in and pull the starter, you're saying that your starter isn't "good enough" to play the whole game. Sounds like a catch-22 to me.

HIA - at a showcase event and especially Disney - it's about showcasing all your players. there is plenty of subbing even of the best players. plus, it's hot and humid. length of games are longer in group play, too at Disney.

A lot club coaches rarely sub defenders, assuming that's 4 field players, then the other 6 have to be subbed out to get playing time for the rest of the team- not matter how good the 6 starters are. It's a bad rule for a Showcase

Disney calls itself a Showcase, but operates like a tournament. Note the difference between CASL's and Disney's Showcases. I think this is a terrible rule for this event.

I am amazed that there is complaining about a limited sub rule. Here in the midwest the MRL league has the 7 subs per half rule. This is common knowlege and gets the players ready for the next level. The next question you have to ask yourself, is that now that there is the academy league, how many college coaches are going to be attending the normal tournaments when they can go see the best of the best at the academy tournaments. When I refereed at the academy tournament, I saw 10 X's the amount of college coaches than I saw at the other games, including the state cup quarters. semis and finals, and regional games. The college coaches know that the best place to go see the best players are at the academy tournaments.....just a thought.

HappyDaddy
Just for clarification, I am not an academy supporter. I think it is another way that the system has tried to say that this is now the new level that is the "best". In five years they will come up with a new level like they always have and name it "X". X will then be the newest and best thing. But I am telling you, from what I have witnessed, there have been fewer coaches at the other events. I do large tournaments (ODP region camps, ODP holdovers, state cup, regionals, Pumas Cup in Chicago, Rainbow and Watermellon tournament, USA cup, etc....), so I have seen the difference. There are some coaches that still go to the other tournaments, but not as many. Just an observation, I have no dog in the fight one way or the other, my kids are only 4 and 2. Stand back, take a breath and relax. You gotta love message boards, people are way to serious all of the time, or else they show their ability to judge or ignorance.

Soccerboy,

My daughter's team played in the USA Cup in Blaine, MN back when she was U-14. Obviously there were no college coaches looking at teams that young. Is there a good turnout of midwest college coaches for the U-17 and U-18 age levels at this tournament?

The best way to be noticed by college coaches is self promotion to the college the player is interested in attending.

The more talent you can bring to one event or a league is going to bring more coaches..It would make sense because the coaches do not have to travel as much..Still standing out in a crowd of high end players would be difficult at best..Man City has it right..Figure out where you would like to go to school and contact the coaching staff and let your interests be known..If you sit home waiting on them to come to you..then your chances are slim that you will play where you will be happy

Step 1 - is to let the coaches/colleges know that you're interested. They will send a profile to fill out and return.

Step 2 - Let the coaches/colleges know where your club team is playing (league and tournament schedules).

Step 3 - the coaches come and watch you play.

Sub limits are stupid!

Also agree with Man City. Being from West Coast my daughter was noticed while playing at CASL Shootout and Wags. More than enough coaches in attendance. She did contact the school she was interested in and provided them with her game schedule. Ditto at Surf Cup. Self promotion is required unless a national team member, especially if you have specific colleges in mind.

Hurst, there are the local coaches that show up from the smaller division II and III schools. I believe that some from the big ten were also there, but I don't know those on sight, unless I ask. I would say that I saw 20 or so people out scouting the tourny in MN.

was told tonight that the 7 sub rule was only for the boys at disney.

i heard this, too but the rules/laws still indicate just 7 subs with no re-entry for u16g and older age groups.

According to the rules currently posted there is a difference between the girls and boys but only for the U-15 age group. U-15 boys are allowed 7 subs with re-entry allowed, U-15 girls have free substitution. Rules for U-16 through U-19 girls and boys both restrict subs to 7 per game, no re-entry allowed.

At the U-15 level the 7 subs with re-entry allowed rule for the boys has minimal impact, because the roster limit for the U-15's (girls and boys) is 18 players. However, the U-16's through U-19's have roster limits of 22 players. Any team in those age groups carrying more than 18 players will not only have to deal with the "no re-entry" rule, they will have to deal with 1-4 players per game never setting foot on the field.

As a major showcase tournament you will find many DII and DIII colleges there that will not be realistically looking to recruit the "best of the best", which is why everyone should get some opportunity for playing time and exposure in a tournament of this type.

I'm not sure how many of the clubs are aware of the rule. The application deadline was Aug. 15, the posted rules are dated Aug. 25, and the Labor Day qualifying tournament was played using free substitution for both genders, all age groups.

Good points have been made in this thread arguing the merit of limited substitutions as incentive to player effort, as well as preparation for next levels of play. However, as a showcase tournament I think this new rule will have many teams reconsidering the value of attending the tournament in the future. Unlike the college, professional, and national team levels, Disney is still a youth soccer showcase tournament where mom and dad are paying premium freight for participation and more importantly exposure.

I hope that by the time the tournament arrives, the team managers will be told by tournament officials at the team check-in, "by the way, the rules have changed, we're allowing free substitution"... same as you'll find at the Raleigh Showcase (also co-sponsored by Chelsea).

Delta;
I seriously doubt any team or club would turn down an invite to the showcase regaardless of the tournament rules. As far as tournaments, the showcase is in a class by itself.

Although the rules still state the girls have limited substitution, I contacted Disney and received clarification concerning the girls (all age groups) "...the no re-entry substitution rule is for the boys side of the Showcase only. The girls still have liberal substitution." I suggested they update the posted rules to avoid future confusion.

I was also informed by the folks at Disney that the rules change is, as some of you stated, an effort to include the USSF Development Academy teams. At this time, of course, this only includes boys teams. And, the posted academy rules at the USSF site are "7 max, no re-entry". However, USSF academy game rosters are limited to 18, and the posted "thought process" behind the substitution rule is this... "Allows the entire travel party to be eligible to participate; no re-entry ensures that the coach is looking at managing the entire game and not segments of the game through multiple re-entries in a single game." I guess they see the "7 max" as a relaxation of the "3 max", but with an allowed roster size of 22 I think application of the rule will have an opposite affect of the intent of the USSF... "Allows the entire travel party to be eligible to participate".

Well, I guess that is for the boys side to be concerned about. I can keep the hotel reservation for my daughter that will be traveling to the tournament with a 20 member team.

One other rule I found at the USSF website regarding academy substitutions and playing time... "Each player must start a minimum of 30% of the games". So, the intent of the rules at USSF seems less an incentive to drive the top players to dominate playing time, but rather to ensure more equitable playing time for all members of the teams involved.