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A new high school season is upon us and the initial season start rankings will be out shortly. I have never understood however the team are ranked.
It occurred to me that there was a logical unbiased methodology for ranking the teams, which can be understood by all and checked by anyone who is familiar with the team and players. The system takes into account the success the HS coach has had in the preceding season with this team and evaluates the players individually, based on their previous performance and their experience level. At the very least, it gets rid of any bias based on subjective thinking.
I do not have a relationship with any team sufficient to compile the points total of the individual players and will rely on people familiar with the teams, to follow the system outlined below and give us a logical ranking with a background which will stand up to scrutiny.
Methodology
Players Evaluation
Use the top 13 players in the points total for the evaluation. Allow points as shown below for returning starters, and the exceptional players who make "All State" and "All Region" Teams, plus all existing HS players who are playing in the premier league, classic league or recreational league. Additionally assume that any incoming freshman player who is on premier team that played in the fall will make the varsity team in their first season. Add the points total for the individual player’s evaluation to the team and coach evaluation to get the overall total of points. Highest number of points gives that team the highest ranking.
Players Merit Rating
Allow 2 points for current All State Selections
Allow 1 point for current All Region Selections
Allow 3 points for playing in the Premier league, 2 points for playing in the Classic league and 1 point for playing in the recreational league.
Allow 1 point for each previous year as a starter.
Team and Coach Merit Rating
Allow 2 points for making the Upper or Lower State Quarter Finals, assuming the same HS coach returns
Allow 3 points for making the Upper State or Lower State Final assuming the same HS coach returns
Allow 4 points for playing in the State Championship, assuming the same HS coach returns
Deduct one point from each of coach merit ratings listed above, if the current coach is not returning.
Regrets but the Tables A & B would not copy However please continue
Table A Player Evaluation
Name Returning Starter yrs.
3 or 2 or 1 point
All State
2pts
All Region
1 pt Premier 3pts: Classic 2 pts: Rec 1 pt
Total Points Table A =
Table B
Coach & Team Evaluation
Quarter Final 2 pts
Semi Final 3 pts
Final 4 pts
Total Table B =
Total: Points Table A + Table B = Points
I look forward to seeing the points total for each of the Ladies teams in based on the above logic. They can then be seeded in their group (say Upper State AAAA) according the total accrued points.
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This looks interesting. The only flaw I see is that players get 3 pts for playing Premier and 2 for Classic, but there is no delineation for Challenge. Why not make Premier = 4ps, Challenge = 3pts, Classic = 2pts, Rec = 1pt. There is a big enough dif. between Challenge and Classic that players who play Challenge should earn 1 more point.
Also, if we are awarding points for years starting on varsity, does it matter if the player started for their club team? Rarely getting off the bench on a premier team may be little better than starting on your challenge team and scoring 15 goals!
PS. 1977 was a good year. 1978 was better. Then 1979 had to go and top them by having Billy Corgan immortalize it in song.
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So if you started as a freshman at Gilbert and you're a senior and you played classic - 5 points
If you started as a junior at Eastside, were all region, and played premier - 5 points
Did I miss some points or is that correct?
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Another thought,
What if a player has played at different club levels? Do we only take the most recent season into account?
Or what if a player has played 3 years of Challenge, but did not play this past year, BUT did play during years where they were a starter on varsity?
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What about the different league levels in GA like Athena A and B? Or Charlotte for that matter.
Not bad, Kyle...
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[ Quote:
Why not make Premier = 4ps, Challenge = 3pts, Classic = 2pts, Rec = 1pt.
You are correct in picking up this error. I intended to change the rating to Premier 3 points Challenge 2 points and Classic 1 point and didn't finish the change. My thought is that everyone who is on the Varsity team will be playing soccer, so that is not exceptional therefore zero points for playing at the lowest level.
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Quote:
,
Do we only take the most recent season into account?
Yes the most recent soccer year, last years HS and Club seasons.
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Quote:
So if you started as a freshman at Gilbert and you're a senior and you played classic - 5 points
If you started as a junior at Eastside, were all region, and played premier - 5 points
Did I miss some points or is that correct?
In error I missed to rate Challenge. It should read Premier 3 pts; Challenge 2 pts; Classic 1 pt.
We are rating the overall performance of the team, not the individual players. The second table B would also make a difference. I was intending to rate the teams within a given classification such as AAAA upper State against their immediate competition.
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Quote:
What about the different league levels in GA like Athena A and B? Or Charlotte for that matter.
Not bad, Kyle...
If they are an outstanding player they will be playing premier and be at the same level regardless of which club team they play on. I don't think the remaining few players who are affected would make any difference. Don't forget table B which is a significant part of the rating system.
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I'll just wait and see who puts the points on the scoreboard without worrying about the points on the roster.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Chass, you still haven't responded to my comment concerning coaches from out of the district. It has been very discouraging!
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Quote:
2008 Preseason/Postseason Rankings Analysis
http://www.scsoccer.com/forum/showflat.p...true#Post107071
Thanks for the information, I didn't know it existed, overall the rankings were accurate. How were the preseason rankings compiled.
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Quote:
Chass, you still haven't responded to my comment concerning coaches from out of the district. It has been very discouraging!
Whoa, sorry...point me back to it...it's been turbulent times!
I've got good news and bad news...
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OK, I tried to use this point system for Westside and TL Hanna girls varsity soccer teams (I guessed at Hanna's top 13 players, so don't shoot me, Craig). Below is the estimated point total: Westside = 38 Total Points - 0 Coaching Points  TL Hanna = 59 Total Points - Give or take a couple My guess would be that teams in the top 15 in the state in AAAA would have between 50-70 points, with returning All-State Players or Premier players being the biggest boost to overall points at +3 each. Anyone else care to do 1977's math?
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South Aiken Girls come in at 46 points.
I have Swansea at 55, Dreher at 65, BC at 70, and Airport at 114.
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I've got Mauldin around 66.
Only time will tell
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I would have guessed Mauldin would be one of the few schools that topped TL Hanna in points. I would imagine Wando, Dorman and Dutch Fork would also lie in the 60-70 point range.
It would be interesting to see which AAAA team that was ranked last year had the lowest point total, or was successful with the least returning experience, club experience and All-Region/State level players; which is what this point rubric focuses on.
This rubric also makes it interesting to look at the points your team would have accumulated in years past:
Westside 2002-03 = 14 Points
Westside 2003-04 = 12 Points
Westside 2004-05 = 16 Points
Westside 2005-06 = 20 Points
Westside 2006-07 = 22 Points
Westside 2007-08 = 21 Points
Westside 2008-09 = 38 Points
Having been around the TL Hanna players through club and Dale Jr. over that time period, I imagine they've had a similar increase in points in recent years, though they probably started around the 25-30 range. On the other hand, I think if you looked at Mauldin's points back in 2002-03, they were already around 60-70. I remember those 10-0 at halftime games like they were yesterday...
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This system only accounts for a strong/weak bench of 2 players. There is a big difference between a team that can go 13 deep with returning Premier/Challenge players and a team that can go 15-16 deep with that level of players. I think the top 16 players would be a better measure and would include the teams ability to deal with injuries, illnesses, etc.
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Blue Ridge is at 32 for 2009 versus 13 for 2008, basically due to many returning players and starters and 4x club level participation last season.
Very interesting ranking system, until you realize how many Premier kids try out for Riverside, Eastside, etc. They could be in the 100's
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Quote:
I would have guessed Mauldin would be one of the few schools that topped TL Hanna in points. I would imagine Wando, Dorman and Dutch Fork would also lie in the 60-70 point range.
It would be interesting to see which AAAA team that was ranked last year had the lowest point total, or was successful with the least returning experience, club experience and All-Region/State level players; which is what this point rubric focuses on.
This rubric also makes it interesting to look at the points your team would have accumulated in years past:
Westside 2002-03 = 14 Points
Westside 2003-04 = 12 Points
Westside 2004-05 = 16 Points
Westside 2005-06 = 20 Points
Westside 2006-07 = 22 Points
Westside 2007-08 = 21 Points
Westside 2008-09 = 38 Points
Having been around the TL Hanna players through club and Dale Jr. over that time period, I imagine they've had a similar increase in points in recent years, though they probably started around the 25-30 range. On the other hand, I think if you looked at Mauldin's points back in 2002-03, they were already around 60-70. I remember those 10-0 at halftime games like they were yesterday...
That is coaching, baby! 
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Minor suggestion: 5 for ODP, 4 for Premier, 3 for Challenge, 2 for Classic, 1 for Rec.
Also, dividing points for starters (limited to 11) and bench gives you a pretty good idea of depth.
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Westside's progression is a direct benefit of the success of club soccer in the Anderson area. Increased participation at CASA from the Anderson schools, as well as Daniel, Seneca, and Walhalla will raise the level of play for each team this year.
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Quote:
Westside's progression is a direct benefit of the success of club soccer in the Anderson area. Increased participation at CASA from the Anderson schools, as well as Daniel, Seneca, and Walhalla will raise the level of play for each team this year.
Absolutely. The CASA teams that have high school players were pretty impressive this year.
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Quote:
Quote:
I would have guessed Mauldin would be one of the few schools that topped TL Hanna in points. I would imagine Wando, Dorman and Dutch Fork would also lie in the 60-70 point range.
It would be interesting to see which AAAA team that was ranked last year had the lowest point total, or was successful with the least returning experience, club experience and All-Region/State level players; which is what this point rubric focuses on.
This rubric also makes it interesting to look at the points your team would have accumulated in years past:
Westside 2002-03 = 14 Points
Westside 2003-04 = 12 Points
Westside 2004-05 = 16 Points
Westside 2005-06 = 20 Points
Westside 2006-07 = 22 Points
Westside 2007-08 = 21 Points
Westside 2008-09 = 38 Points
Having been around the TL Hanna players through club and Dale Jr. over that time period, I imagine they've had a similar increase in points in recent years, though they probably started around the 25-30 range. On the other hand, I think if you looked at Mauldin's points back in 2002-03, they were already around 60-70. I remember those 10-0 at halftime games like they were yesterday...
That is coaching, baby!
Amen! That man has raised a program from nothing and hung in there when greener pastures came calling.
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Ryan, see if you can get Pay for Points in your contract! [Based on your starting coaching salary from 02-03 naturally}
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Quote:
This system only accounts for a strong/weak bench of 2 players. There is a big difference between a team that can go 13 deep with returning Premier/Challenge players and a team that can go 15-16 deep with that level of players. I think the top 16 players would be a better measure and would include the teams ability to deal with injuries, illnesses, etc.
I think you have a good point and I considered using 15 players in the ranking system.
To illustrate your point, I understand that Mauldin played their key end games last season with 5 potential starters sitting on the bench due to injuries and they still made the Finals. Another similar point is that Mauldin also had a regular starter and she was a Freshman, which would have lowered their score. However I decided to use the 13 top rated Girls as being the ones who are the most likely to play.
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Quote:
Minor suggestion: 5 for ODP, 4 for Premier, 3 for Challenge, 2 for Classic, 1 for Rec.
Also, dividing points for starters (limited to 11) and bench gives you a pretty good idea of depth.
Thanks
ODP is not a regular commitment as far as games played and if we give it 5 points it would be a major influence on the results of the system. I stick with my corrected (see earlier posts) 3 for Premier, 2 for Challenge, 1 for Classic, (0 for Rec. If they are not playing they will not make the HS team top 13).
Yes depth is a consideration. See earlier post.
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DEPTH
I think the depth of the team is taken care of by part B of the system in quantifying the results.
Team and Coach Merit Rating
Allow 2 points for making the Upper or Lower State Quarter Finals, assuming the same HS coach returns
Allow 3 points for making the Upper State or Lower State Final assuming the same HS coach returns
Allow 4 points for playing in the State Championship, assuming the same HS coach returns
Deduct one point from each of coach merit ratings listed above, if the current coach is not returning.
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It's not a bad system. A bit of tweaking, but the idea is nice.
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I agree, the points concept is interesting and it would be fun for coaches to see the Point Total of teams they compete against.
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That's like a recommendation from Albert Einstein on a thinking model.
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I wish I taught at South Aiken so I had time to do the math if I could only do it! It seems coaches at South Aiken have a lot of time on their hands!
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I have a bachelors degree and two masters. When you get to that point, you'll learn to work smarter - not harder 
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Guys, don't hate on Dale Jr. As a graduate of and coach at South Aiken, he is actually so mentally gifted that he uses mind control to make the computer type by itself while he teaches! Rumor has it that he could actually "will" students to score Advanced on the old South Carolina PACT test. Now that's some scary stuff...
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Quote:
It's not a bad system. A bit of tweaking, but the idea is nice.
Dale: Go ahead and make your suggestions. In retrospect I think that more weight should be given to part B by adding all of the play off rounds i.e
Table B
Coach & Team Evaluation
Second round 1 point
Third round 2 points
Quarter Final 3 pts
Semi Final 4 pts
Finalist 5 pts
Winner 6 pts
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You use the terms logical, unbiased, and methodical.
Methodical, yes.
I do think your system is biased toward premier play. Some talented freshmen do not wish to play premier with their age group because it interferes with high school play.
It is not logical. A girl maybe highly talented, yet choose to take a year off from club thus receiving less points than a classic/recreation league player. It does not take into effect the possibility of being a former premier or even challenge player. Therefore a player who played on an 0-19 classic team and never played in a varsity match would warrant the same numerical importance of a player who previously played premier and started on varsity, yet took the club season off.
PLEASE, do not take my comments as unappreciative of your efforts. I simply go on record as saying it is very well impossible to make objective and definitive assessments out of subjective compilations such as high school soccer teams.
If your initial description of the evaluation methodology limited it's terms and intentions to a general, evaluation of subjective material that takes out the human element of favoritism - then it would address many of the shortcomings of which it previously claimed to not exist.
As long as it does not claim to show no bias to any parties or be free of all logical mishaps - we're ok. But if it does, then we have a problem for the very nature of what we're evaluating cannot be mathematically and accurately assessed without flaw.
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Whoa--Dale actually sounded intelligent in this last post? Who stole Dale's password? Someone is using his account for sure!
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Once a year I use all the words in my vocabulary. See you guys in 2010...
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I respect and appreciate your comments, the system is designed so that Table B takes into account the overall performance of the team and coach, this corrects the biases in Table A, which includes minor details such as a freshman who misses part of the soccer year and consequently misses getting a point.
I remind you that this system attempts to forecast the seeding for the next season, a one-time event. It will allow people who know the players in a team to calculate where their team ranks in relationship to its peers.
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Hopefully we can log some of the given results and see how things turn out come May. I like it and, who knows, maybe ESPN will pick it up one day! Let 'em know SC girls soccer was where it all began
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It's really an interesting look. I am using it at our Parent's Meeting to demonstrate the different things that parents and kids can do to improve their chances, and to show the cumulative effect on our team's prospects. One the game begins, winning takes over, but this system is very interesting and useful.
I also looked at each class cumulative and it shows me the year that I really need to have some solid JV help coming up.
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Sorry it's taken me a while to do this. Been a little distracted.
Dutch Fork's top 13 with Coach looks to be around the 74 point mark.
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