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Is Bluffton HS at 12-0 eligible for the playoffs? I know that they started the year on probation, but does that include the playoffs too?
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I believe the was the ruling at the end of the year last year was that they would not be eligible for the playoffs this year...
Last edited by soccer2103; 04/24/09 04:23 PM.
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The ruling banned us from all tournaments as well as scrimmages and post-season playoffs.
I would also like to add that we have also only had 3 yellow cards the entire season and 0 red cards.
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too bad last game of the year (playoffs 2008) could possibly keep the best team (3A) out of the playoffs... keep playing hard and go undefeated, every one in the lower state is pulling for you.. return many players to have a chance at state next year?
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"An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules..." - SCHSL Motto
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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suspend the player not the team
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We are only losing 2 seniors. After the ban and the passing of our captain, Josh George, last year, I feel my boys have come a long way and I am very proud of them this season.
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good to hear coach, i know last year was very emotional for your school and program, continue your success! Beaufort SC
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Bluffton is not the best team in 3A. If you examine the rankings every team ahead of them is better and have had far better competition. Not knocking your win total but they've had one challenge against Hilton Head. Besides that nothing is making them legit for conversation of a state championship so be easy.
Yeah!! HAHA
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Opponents record of 38-42-2
Yeah!! HAHA
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Thanks for your support wino.
I understand the comment freaky zeeky, but after last season, it was very hard to make a schedule. From those just hearing the story, many didn't want to play us, which is understandable from hearsay, which is already in the process of being changed for next year.
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Quote:
Bluffton is not the best team in 3A. If you examine the rankings every team ahead of them is better and have had far better competition. Not knocking your win total but they've had one challenge against Hilton Head. Besides that nothing is making them legit for conversation of a state championship so be easy.
Those stats can be misleading...Just look at Northwestern's competition..OR LACK thereof.
Bluffton got a raw deal, but I'm sure they will be back
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I've seen Bluffton a few times this year, form the blowout wins against lower competition, to the PK win over Hilton Head, and they are a different group of players from what is usually known of Bluffton futbol. I don't think they're the best team in 3a, but I will say they will turn a few heads next season once they become eligible for the postseason once again. Coach Cook is doing a great job changing the face of that program.
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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Update:
I spoke with Roger Hazel, and he told us that our probation ends on May 5th. This means that we ARE aloud to play in playoffs, but where we are placed is up to our region.
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This is complete BS!!! This is not fair because they played an ineligible season so the games didn't count which in turn means they miss the playoffs!! If this is true the high school league is even more than a joke than we thought.
Yeah!! HAHA
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no offense to Coach Cook or Blufton but I have to agree it is a little unfair since a decision was previously made. I say this not as a team who may ultimately play Blufton, but on behalf of the rest of that regions. There would have been a team able to make the playoffs who now will not because of this. I just don't think it is right to change a decision like that. The least they should do is make them the #4 seed in that region
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The hypocrisy of the SOUTH CAROLINA HIGH SCHOOL LEAGUE continues to amaze me. Our football team was banned for a full athletic year (including playoffs) this past fall for getting into a fight. This is preposterous and I'm sure it's because soccer folks have money to fight the system!
However, looking at your record in the region it seems the only "playoff" eligible region match would be the May 5 game vs. Hilton Head Island. Is that correct? All other games would have been "ineligible", correct? So that means Bluffton would be 0-7 despite actually being a possible 7-0 prior to the HHI game. If BHS wins that game then one region win might get you into the playoffs as a #4 seed I guess because Battery Creek and North Charleston are horrible.
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
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From what I was told, by Roger Hazel, it was not a reversal, but the paperwork said our probation would last until May 5th.
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Our season was not deemed ineligible. The probation was for scrimmages and pre-season and in season tournaments.
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my understanding last year was that the team was eligible for regular season but they penalty was to be ineligible for the playoffs. I guess you would know better than any of us coach. I was at that match last year so I saw it all unfold and I know you have gotten rid of the bad eggs and really changed the reputation of that team. Good for you though, good luck.
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How about both Dutch Fork girls who were banned from the postseason for having an illegal practice. Or the Dutch Fork boys who had to have their coach resign because of three people kicking the ball around? Like everyone else said, no disrespect to you or your players, but this is easssssily one of the most blatant displays of hypocrisy I have ever seen not only in HS soccer, but probably top 5 in my entire life. Fighting and displaying terrible sportsmanship and a complete lack of class is a less punishable offense than four kids juggling on a practice field or a team starting practice three days early? Great example the state is setting for the youth. Who is this moron in change? He should should be beat up (yes the irony is on purpose) and then fired.
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Curious, because I don't remember...was Bluffton deemed ineligible for playoffs LAST year?
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Never mind...I see in the records that they went.
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From the handy-dandy SCHSL Handbook:
C. In case of unsportsmanlike conduct on the part of the coaches, school officials, players,
students or spectators of a school, the school will be subject to discipline by the
Commissioner consisting of a warning or reprimand, probation not to exceed a year and/or a
fine not to exceed $300.00.
D. In cases of more serious unsportsmanlike actions, the Executive Committee may discipline
the school by a fine not to exceed $2,500.00 and/or suspension from the League not to
exceed one year.
Schools who violate any of the preceding sections of this article may be subject to a
fine of not less than $25.00 and not more than $2,500.00 and/or suspension for not
more than one calendar year . The League's Statement of Policy concerning
unsportsmanlike conduct is on page A-25.
PROBATION: A team may compete in regularly scheduled contests but may not play in
a jamboree, an invitational event or for a region or state championship.
So...by the letter of the law, the probation is for a calendar year, not a season, so after the expiration date a team is eligible to compete in any contest, including playoffs. BUT...during that time they cannot compete for a region championship, which would be taking place during the regular season within the time period of the probation, so...seeding? Anybody's guess is as good as mine.
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So moral of the story is try and get in a fight early in the playoffs and hope that the school and soccer calendar for the next year is pushed back a little bit? I'll make sure and remember that little loophole in the system.
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This is horse crap!! Its ok to assult people.
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Yep, that does seem to be the loophole, the way the rule is written...not making a judgment call on right or wrong, but that's the letter of the law. Moving the season back this year did work in Bluffton's favor by pushing playoffs past the calendar year expiration.
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I will say this...if the player(s) who committed the offense are no longer a part of the team, and the players currently benefitting from the loophole aren't the ones who deserved to be sanctioned in the first place, then maybe this is an example of the universe balancing itself so as not to punish the wrong people.
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So basically we waitin' on Roger and Jerome to tell us where they finish in the region? This whole thing doesn't seem right in relation to other punishments that have been handed down for seemingly lesser offenses - but somehow I'm not surprised. SCHSL seems to be operated like the fox guarding the hen house.
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logically they will either get the 1 or 4 seed.
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as far as seeding goes...
it may only be fair to give bluffton the 4 seed, but then the one seed from another region gets punished by having to play a tough team when a luxury of winning your region is getting to play a weaker team.
anyway you put it someone somewhere is going to be unhappy
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Wow! My question is why is this just being addressed now? Has Bluffton known something for a while about being eligible for the playoffs? And why is the High School League allowed to arbitrarily decide who is eligible or not this late in the season? Regardless of the "calendar year" rule that was cited in the SCHSL Handbook, that is simply bush league. Everyone with a brain knows that it should impact the entire ensuing season, but maybe I'm expecting too much from our folks in public education.
Seems to me that the other region members would blackball BHS from participating in the postseason this spring. I can't imagine a fourth-place team that played by the rules and earned the right to participate in the playoffs will be happy about sitting at home next month when another team that displayed despicable behavior and acted like a bunch of malcontents gets to play in their spot.
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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Ditto Always Right...
If the universe was balancing itself out then the teams who received outlandishly over the top punishments and missed the playoffs in situations where the COACH was at fault at not the KIDS would have benefited from this beyond retarded, only in south carolina, could have only been made up by an incompetent inbred, loophole. Not a team that showed disrespect for their school, team, coach, and the game of soccer. THAT'D be justice. DF's coach GAVE UP HIS JOB AS COACH over a situation in which he allowed two players to kick around with an assistant coach not realizing he had allowed an "illegal practice". And now this team gets to waltz in the playoffs after this kind of incident. Looks to me like the universe is leaning towards thugs and hooligans rather than balancing itself out.
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So South Aiken would play Bluffton 1st round??
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Well, just for the sake of argument (and because it is the rational conclusion) we will agree that last year's fracas as it was described was a much worse incident than others that have been punished severely by the League. Who, precisely, would you like to see reap this well-deserved punishment?
1. The coach who, by accounts and reputation, is bringing the program on track in a respectable manner?
2. The current players who were not involved in last year's moment of idiocy and who have, again by reports, have performed a relatively spotless season?
3. The perpetrator of the incident, who is graduated and gone and will likely not be affected one way or the other by any sanctions against the current Bluffton squad?
Please be specific.
Bear in mind these are not judgments, but simply ideas put forth for debate, in the style of my apparent alter ego, James Kilpatrick.
(I always thought Point-Counterpoint was a great exercise.)
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Yeah!! HAHA
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Ad hominem argument, Zeek...completely avoids the issue at hand by use of a personal attack; usually used to attempt deflection of attention from logic. Try again...
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With all due respect Coach Chass,, James Kilpatrick would have been a little more balanced in the presentaion of issues for debate. More importantly, I did not take any of the outrage previously expressed as being directed at Coach Cook or the Bluffton squad - just outrage at the apperant "hypocrisy" of the SCHSL in the interpretaion of the probation or lack thereof.
Fair or not, from the handbook passage quoted above, it is the clear intention of the SCHSL to hold the member schools responsible for the actions of its fans, players and coaches. The issue now is, does the recent interpretation offered by Mr. Hazel further the leagues' intention?
To start the debate, I will throw out the point that the handbook does not state when a suspension should begin (i.e. - at the time of the infraction, upon the rendering of a decision by the Executive Council or upon the exhaustion of any appeals by the school).
P.S. - I'm a little slow, what does "kick rocks" mean?
Last edited by lfc; 04/28/09 04:35 AM.
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I think Bluffton deserves to be in the playoffs. The players are simply kids, they are not fully matured to make fully rational decisions. When you are down in the playoffs your emotions for the game are at an all time high and sometimes it gets let go in unnecessary aggression. I do not believe the actions of the Bluffton team should costs them their chance to play in the playoffs. They are being punished for a kid losing his cool; I believe the game deserves something much more worrisome to get worked up about.
Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic.
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Ah, now there's a good counterpoint. Perhaps my options were a little slanted--a reaction to previous posts. Specifically, for example, "This is horse crap!! Its ok to assult people."
Of course it's not OK to assault people...one question is, though, would anyone who assaulted someone, or is responsible for an assault, be punished by keeping this year's Bluffton squad out of the playoffs?
Strong point, though, about the intention of the rule to hold member schools responsible for the actions of their constituency. I might counterpoint, though, that the overarching intention is to modify the behavior of fans, coaches and players to reflect sportsmanlike behavior, which (and I only have reports to go on, no personal experience) seems to have been achieved based on this year's accounts of Bluffton's behavior. Punishment has already been incurred in the loss of preseason and invitational tournament ineligibility, along with the inability to hold a region title regardless of performance, which proves that there are consequences for poor sportsmanship regardless of who actually commits the offense. Would it further this cause (or increase the League's credibility) if they were to extend the punishment past their stated expiration date?
I was a little bemused by "kick rocks" myself.
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At the risk of switching sides in the debate, it did offend my sense of fairness that the decision of the Executive Committee was apperantly influenced by a perceived problem with the sport as a whole. As I previously stated in a post on 9/12/08:
"At the risk of attracting the attention of any witty commentators, I'll go ahead and add that Coach Cook has done a remarkable job of instilling discipline and respect in his team and players. I realize that much good can be overshadowed and even undone by one bad incident (and the incident was bad), but soccer2103's point making broad assumptions based on limited facts is valid and admirable.
Lastly, with all due respect to Coach Cook and his acceptance of the penalty, I'm going to go ahead and say unequivocably that the decision by the SCHSL was just wrong. If the SCHSL wants to "send a strong message", then first identify the problem (if any), then tailor the message to address the problem, and then "send a strong message". Mr. Greene's wreckless and ignorant comment that "we have more problems with soccer than any other sport" demonstrate that the action by SCHSL was a knee-jerk reaction that is not based in fact, sound reasoning or any probability that a problem will be remedied."
However, it is well-accepted practice in sports for a league to hold a school or team responsible for the actions of an individual fan, player or coach. The history of disciplinary actions within the NCAA is full of even more punitive examples - and even professional sports leagues have penalized teams for the actions of past coaches or players.
My harsh criticism of Mr. Greene and the Executive Committee aside, at least there was a certain logic to the reasoning. This recent turn of events seems to mean that the Executive Committee intended to maybe send a strong message, kind of.
I think that it would be interesting to know the exact wording of the decision rendered by the Executive Committee. Coach Cook has repeatedly stated (as did the newspaper accounts) that the decision banned the Bluffton squad from all post-season playoffs. Perhaps this is not the case and, as Roger Hazel has apperantly stated, it was the intention of the Executive Committee to simply place Bluffton on probation for 365 days from the date of the infraction (May 6, 2008).
Regardless, its late and I have finished my work for the evening. I am certain that the debate, outrage, sympathy and senseless rants will continue at a more reasonable hour. Until then, kick rocks Coach Chass.
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A good debater can switch sides at will.  If it was the intent of the Executive Committee to send a strong message, then they did so by applying the penalty they believed fit the crime, which, in this case, was probation for the team. Regardless of intent, though, they are limited to penalties allowed by the League Constitution, which specify that probation is for one calendar year; therefore, they can say that they placed a penalty to the full extent allowed; extending the punishment beyond that would be illegal by their own governing restrictions regardless of their intent and would only send the message that they can break their own rules whenever they see fit--which would send what message to everyone else? Changing the wording in the Constitution to a sports season rather than a calendar year--now that's another matter. Off to kick rocks on my day job, Chass
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Hummmmm.....You guys are missing the point with these long statements about how screwed up the High School league and the people that run are. The point I'M MAKING is there was NO punishment at all for the event that took place in last years playoffs. Bluffton just spared themselves injuries from scrimmages and tournaments that they wouldnt have participated in anyway!! So where's the punishment? There is none! It's amazing to me that the girls from Gilbert get their whole season taking away for a practice and a crime that involves possible jail time goes unpunished!! P.S. Kick Rocks with No socks with Flip Flops P.S.S. Coach check out the site www.borntolose.com cause you always seem to have extra time on your hand. haha
Yeah!! HAHA
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I find it hard to believe that if I were to take my club team and just simply run a soccer practice at a school facility during the "high school" off season my players and I would be banned from play next year. I would probably lose my job (giggle), be made a fool of publicly and feel ashamed simply because I wanted to give kids a place to play a sport...All the while token in the front office would say "NOW THE RULE IS BWACK AND WHITE. YOU SAYIN I DON'T KNOW THE RULES?" Yes, token. That's what I'm saying
Yet these clowns commit an assault on a grown man/official and are about to be allowed to play? Where's Fred Beaver when you need him? He'd hand this post a few blue cards and a 150000 whistle-blows.
Talk about sending a message. Think of what happened to Coach Quinlan last year...now he has to live down there with these thugs amongst him who get better treatment for acting out in a violent manner when they don't get their way.
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I'm with Freaky on this one. The punishment (if that's what you call it) doesn't fit the crime. Obviously, that was some serious stuff that went down in last years playoff game. You can hand me all the usual excuses like the player who did it was a senior and is no longer there and remaining players shouldn't be punished, he was one bad apple, the coach has done an admirable job of cleaning up the program, etc.. I also realize the SCHSL rules are the rules - but in this case they are simply screwed up and Bluffton benefits from a circumstance where the playoffs are later than last therefore they squeek in. I would like to think it's just a loophole in language that SCHSL needs to fix so this won't happen again - but I doubt it will be looked at. Once again, I can name several teams in more than one sport that had one illegal practice and they are done for the year where playoffs are concerned. But here is Bluffton after what went down last year getting ready for the playoffs?
A rule may be a rule - but SCHSL it's called an amendment - look into it!
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Quote:
Talk about sending a message. Think of what happened to Coach Quinlan last year...now he has to live down there with these thugs amongst him who get better treatment for acting out in a violent manner when they don't get their way.
So let me get this straight............and sorry for getting off topic here............one incident involving a player from Bluffton High, who has already graduated, and now you're automatically labeling all Beaufort County players as thugs??? Like I've stated on an earlier thread, back in the day Bluffton was known to be harsh players and undisciplined kids, but now Cook is doing a phenomenal job changing that program around. And it's unfortunate what happened to Coach Quinlan last year, but no one forced him to come to Hilton Head and play with all these "thugs" around here
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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Now to the point, I agree with what most are saying. Yes. the player at fault is no longer there, and yes the program is changing, but they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the playoffs this year. Simply because of what others are saying. It's unfair that you can ban a team for everything because of kids "practicing" or passing the ball around and stuff, but give an open window to a team that had a misfortunate incident involving a physical altercation between a player and an adult during a PLAYOFF game...........
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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i am out of the loop..was it just one kid or a group of players that were involved? and was the incident with the referee all that took place?
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Spared themselves injuries from scrimmages and tournaments they wouldn't have participated in anyway...
Hmm.
Clarification...not making any judgment about what is "right" or "wrong" in this situation...just looking at the logic used to arrive at the conclusions. Nothing wrong with a little thinking as opposed to knee-jerk reactions. Sometimes there's just not a good way to make a wrong situation right for everyone involved.
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what seed will they get for their region?
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I feel like we are beginning to argue two separate points here. No one can prove you wrong because that is what the rule book states, but I think the point here is that the fact the rule is written the way it is is absolutely ludicrous. The fact of the matter is they are basically serving little to no punishment for a rather serious offense. Your only response to that point has been that the perpetrator has graduated and we shouldn't punish the rest of the team. Should we make a new rule that as long as the kid is no longer on the team there should be no punishment at all? Absolutely not. As a standard of comparison many other teams have have WAYYYYY less sever infractions and served SEVERELY harsher punishments. Is it fair? No. Is it the way the rule book states? Yes. Just because its in the bylaws doesn't mean its just. Its a US law that 500 grams of powder cocaine will give you the same jail time as 5 grams of crack cocaine (this is actually true). Is that fair? No. The previous precedents set by the state over minuscule infractions should allow you to deduce that these kids had 0.000% shot of playing in the playoffs. Its obviously not the way its gonna happen that way, but if the people who wrote these rules had any common sense it would be that way.
Don't we have ways of stopping such a gross injustice? I think we've done it before. Oh I don't know say the 19th amendment? Nottttttt quite as big of a deal, but maybe you get my point. I say everyone boycott the playoffs and give them the rings!!! (I hope you can hear the sarcasm in my keystrokes)
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I say everyone boycott the playoffs and give them the rings!!! (I hope you can hear the sarcasm in my keystrokes)
..... or maybe lobby your local HS AD to secede from the SCHSL. Seriously, I think the important lesson that can be taken from this is that sometimes in life gross injustices occur. Everywhere - work, school, politics (especially politics).Frequently they are about things that are out of our hands. We have to learn to live with it. So in this case, even though other programs have received more severe punishmnets for lesser offenses, it looks like we all have to live with the rules of SCHSL whether we like it or not. Maybe this will cause SCHSL to take a look at this and this situation will not occur again or more likely SCHSL see's nothing wrong with the punishment they handed down. I don't blame Bluffton for the way the rule reads - don't know much about their program but hopefully what we are reading is true and the coach has cleaned up the program (if in fact it was that bad to begin with). It very well could have been one or two bad apples or simply just bad decisions by otherwise okay kids. Apparently SCHSL informed the coach they could play in the playoffs so they will - wouldn't you?
By the rules of SCHSL they have paid their penalty.
However - to me this is all about a "punsihment fits the crime" issue seemingly botched by SCHSL.
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CS111...I agree with you about the inequity of the punishments handed down for similar and lesser offenses. I would argue that the League has a habit of over-punishing the many for the (often minor) offenses of the one, or the few. I'm not sure handing down an equally heavy-handed ruling in another case would really work to make things "right."
The graduation of that senior wasn't my only point, and wouldn't (shouldn't) stand on its own...the larger point was that the intention of the rule is to change the behavior of the people in the program, and that seems to have happened. Even in our legal system, there are sentences handed down with leeway--"time off for good behavior." If the true intention of the law is rehabilitation, not just punishment, then I think you have to consider that as well, but again, if you are punishing only people who have worked to do the right thing, then what is the punishment really accomplishing?
Again, open for debate.
I've got good news and bad news...
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I'm lost, maybe I need to go and watch "The Great Debaters" again. We need to get that kid that looks like a young biggy smalls to debate Coach Chass! While you're kicking rocks coach, I'll see if I can find Mr. Smalls
Laces out DAN!!!
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Yeah!! HAHA
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Great movie! "Little Biggie" does a better job of carrying a point than most adults.
You hunt for him...I don't need to look far for rocks to kick with all the stones being thrown around here.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Who the !^&! is this, paging me at 5:46 in the morning crack of dawing now I'm yawning, wipe the cold out my eyes, see whos this paging me and why!!!!
Yeah!! HAHA
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BIGGIE... let Bluffton play as a 4 seed and the cream will rise to the top, the best team almost always wins... S Aiken will have to prove themselves, its the playoffs, no games should be easy... i do agree however, if you make a rule you should follow it, if not then bad things start to happen, let them play, lets see how these thugs take care of da futbol
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Has South Aiken not already proved themselves by winning their region? It seems to be an interesting matchup. Basically two region champs playing first round
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Actually, Bluffton is not region champ just yet. Even if the region games previously played stand, Bluffton and Hilton Head pay once more and, if Hilton Head wins, they will have identical region records. Now to continue the debate, there are two issues here. The first is "does the punishment fit the crime?". Personally, I thought that the punishment was excessive from the outset (see earlier post), but there are strong arguments in favor of the punishment handed down. The second issue is "did the SCHSL reverse itself and, if so, was that a good idea?" Only the school and the SCHSL know what sanction was actually handed down but Coach Cook has repeatedly stated that the decision of the Executive Committee was to ban Bluffton from post-season competion. If that was the case and regardless of good behavior on the part of the current Bluffton players, it would appear that the SCHSL has reversed itself and done considerable damage to its credability. To quote the handy-dandy SCHSL Handbook (p.A-27 of the Constitution): Quote:
Coaches must exemplify through their own actions and behavior an acceptable example of good sportsmanship and conduct. Coaches have access to their players on a daily basis and they need to take time to stress the importance of good conduct and sportsmanship by players in interscholastic contests. Allowing players to commit an unsportsmanlike act without a reprimand is really telling the player he has done nothing wrong.
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Absolutely and completely agree with that quote. I'm fairly confident that if it was done according to the Constitution, the probation was handed down with the understanding that there could be no preseason, mid-season tournaments, or post-season competition for the state title for the duration of the probation, which is one calendar year. I don't think anyone foresaw at that point that the season would be moved back and put the next playoffs outside the probation duration, and the League is bound to go by the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law if the two contradict.
Just an all-around interesting situation, but it takes things like this to get people to examine the laws as they are written and possibly modify them accordingly.
I've got good news and bad news...
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At this point it all comes down to what the region AD's say about this. I think it is obvious what Hilton Head thinks. I have heard Battery Creek says let them play. N. Chas, Stall, what say you?
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At this point it all comes down to what the region AD's say about this.
Not sure I follow. What the region AD's say doesn't matter. The sun rises and sets with the SCHSL.
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Why is it obvious what Hilton Head thinks? If you are going by my comments (and I have no say in the matter), you had better review my earlier posts. Quote:
At the risk of attracting the attention of any witty commentators, I'll go ahead and add that Coach Cook has done a remarkable job of instilling discipline and respect in his team and players. I realize that much good can be overshadowed and even undone by one bad incident (and the incident was bad), but soccer2103's point making broad assumptions based on limited facts is valid and admirable.
Lastly, with all due respect to Coach Cook and his acceptance of the penalty, I'm going to go ahead and say unequivocably that the decision by the SCHSL was just wrong. If the SCHSL wants to "send a strong message", then first identify the problem (if any), then tailor the message to address the problem, and then "send a strong message". Mr. Greene's wreckless and ignorant comment that "we have more problems with soccer than any other sport" demonstrate that the action by SCHSL was a knee-jerk reaction that is not based in fact, sound reasoning or any probability that a problem will be remedied.
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Simply put, this is a travesty for the teams in that region that played by the rules and didn't assault a referee or others. The League just needs to amend their "Constitution" on the fly like they do everything else and prolong this suspension through the playoffs. Otherwise, why have any policies at all? The League has lost its status as a governing body through shoddy leadership and poor legal advice. If you want to do something, then just sue the League, because they don't have the money to fight anymore or the power to enforce. And, if Coach Cook really wants to send a message to his coaching peers, fellow region members, the League, and more importantly - to his team - then he will opt to sit out the playoffs this spring and congratulate his team on a "good year".
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
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SCHSL is leaving it up to the region to seed Blufton. From my understanding, that decision goes to the AD's of that region, not the coaches.
I am not basing my comments on any post on scsoccer but by personal insight. As they cannot compete for the #1 seed, it will either be #2,#4, or #5 with #5 being left out.
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I see nothing wrong with the how Bluffton acted last year.
Hot N Ready - 5 Minutes or less.
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Well, here's what's on this morning's paper regarding the situation. Looks like soccer2103 was right. The region ADs will decide where Bluffton gets seeded and if at all they go to the playoffs............. http://www.islandpacket.com/1483/story/829022.html
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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Coach Cook any idea when a final decision will be made? We have to make travel arrangements
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Bauer for governor! Hahaha that's great!
Yeah!! HAHA
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Must be Carroll Campbell's son Mike Campbell in disguise
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I'm sorry, but this is getting comical. From the Island Packet article: Quote:
Hazel said the Bobcats will be eligible for the top seed despite having no chance of being called the region champions, but the Region 8-AAA athletics directors -- who have the final vote -- could elect to not award them a top seed. They could also vote to keep them out of the playoffs completely, ...
As I understand Roger Hazel's comments in the newspaper, the league's (SCHSL) hands are tied and they cannot bar Bluffton from the playoffs, but the region (a subgroup formed and controlled by the league) can. I am not certain what is more troublesome, the lack of control or leadership by the league or the thought that the region ADs have the authority to subjectively remove a team from the playoffs. If the league itself is limited by its Constitution on the penalty (see Coach Chass' quotation of the relevant portions of the Constitution above), then it would seem that the entities formed by and under the league (the regions) would have no more authority.
On the other hand, there does not appear to be anything prohibiting a team or school from participating in a post-season tournament.
I don't think that Bluffton or the actions of any past or present players are the issue anymore. The league needs to get its affairs in order.
Lastly (because I have far too many posts on this topic), the sequence of events reported in the Island Packet seem off. According to the Bluffton Today preview of the Bluffton High soccer team on March 11, Coach Cook knew that they might be allowed to participate in the playoffs.
http://npaper-wehaa.com/bluffton-today;see-DGTsF7Gk7ThTWDyv#c-189949;page-1
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We all need to secede and form a new league: SCHSL WAC - South Carolina High School League With A Clue
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I assume you all have thought the SCHSL wasn't a joke since it's inception...that Roger Hazel is not a joke and cares about all sports equally...I suppose you thought that Jerome Singleton was not some token lapdog who is just there to pick up a very, very, VERY heavy paycheck...You're all now surprised when they come out with a decision (or should it be in-decision such as this?).
Jokes on you and the rest of this sport. It takes one meeting/one conversation with these people to see where their heads are at and you'll never be surprised again. They are clueless and spineless individuals who would rather not discuss things with you than do the jobs that they were hired to do. Let's remember that these boobs are ridiculously over-paid to support you and your interests, regardless of your sport whether it be football, soccer, or track.
You've "trusted" the top time and time again to make the right decision and they fail you just as school boards/state lawmakers/CEO's and the like are failing across this state and country. There should only be one question left to ask:
What are you going to do about it?
Last edited by shut^&play; 04/29/09 04:37 PM.
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What are you going to do about it?
You should youtube this whole speech and add some great melodramatic music in the background. Do some flashing letters and maybe some Rage Against the Machine music as your last line lingers. Then and only then would you truly motivate coaches with this compelling and heart felt post 
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You should youtube this whole speech and add some great melodramatic music in the background. Do some flashing letters and maybe some Rage Against the Machine music as your last line lingers. Then and only then would you truly motivate coaches with this compelling and heart felt post
Hey... I can do that
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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Hey its Dale...i didn't know this was the girls message board!
Laces out DAN!!!
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Quote:
You should youtube this whole speech and add some great melodramatic music in the background. Do some flashing letters and maybe some Rage Against the Machine music as your last line lingers. Then and only then would you truly motivate coaches with this compelling and heart felt post
Hey... I can do that
HTP, on a separate note I've seen your work and any project you take on would be high quality. How much would it take to move you about an hour down I-20?
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Heartfelt?
To be honest with you the answer is: Nothing.
There's strength in numbers. As far as Roger and Jerome are concerned the HS Soccer community consists of 4-5 coaches who do everything and the rest they just have to deal with. We're such a joke to them that we've become an annoyance (not unlike your online persona). They complain about our sport being the highest in injuries, ejections and confrontations yet we have low coach participation and can barely fund our all-star games. Their counter-argument to our argument against their inability to do anything correctly is simple: Who are you?
I don't know how you've wandered over to the big boys forum, I figured you'd be discussing whether special sally will play next year or which bib you're going to wear to warm up your players with next match. Blue was cute. Go with that.
You may go now.
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Focus. Your obsession is getting out of hand. We're here to clean up the SCHSL and those fried brain cells from college are starting to show. You left those days behind, remember? In all honesty, sorry to hear about your recent subtraction 
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Post deleted by Kyle Heise
Last edited by shut^&play; 04/29/09 05:31 PM.
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It's outrageous that Bluffton is allowed to play.
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I don't know how you've wandered over to the big boys forum, I figured you'd be discussing whether special sally will play next year or which bib you're going to wear to warm up your players with next match. Blue was cute. Go with that.
You may go now.
Curious, shut^, if that was just a personal shot at Dale (in which case he is capable of taking care of himself) or a commentary on the girls' side of soccer in general. Either way, from the content of your posts, you seem to have allied yourself with folks who have recently emphasized things like professionalism and setting examples of sportsmanship and class for others. It's a good cause which wouldn't be helped by any association with behavior that is contrary to their mission statement.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Chass, what's that word when...say a coach expects others to maintain a high level of professionalism, without displaying it themselves? I'll send you a pm with info on our friend.
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Eh, I think we all need to lay off on the personal shots and focus back on the game before this deteriorates further...as was mentioned in the club forum, you don't make much progress advancing a cause when you're fighting among yourselves too much to unite.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Dale! Be a man and say who you are referring to! I dare you!
Yeah!! HAHA
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i am not familiar with the "whole" story. but, if the problem was just one player attacking a referee, why didn't they just press charges against THAT individual and leave the program alone?
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My question would be "Does the handy dany rule book say if games conducted while on probation count towards your season record?" If the book does not specificaly say so they do then then perhaps the easy solution is to "rule" that games held while a team is on probation will not count toward season record? Painful yes but it would increase the sting of a program being place on probation.
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Dale! Be a man and say who you are referring to! I dare you!
A man doesn't hide behind a login name. Easy to be a tough guy when it doesn't come back to you. Wasn't raised to be a coward. And I'm back to my girl's forum. Thanks for putting us back on track, Jonathon. My work here is done.
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...but no offense to BHS, the suspension should have been the full year. This is a technicality that should be corrected.
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Chief, not a bad idea...only problem is that the rule book does specifically list the restrictions of the probation, and none of them apply to regular-season matches. If the League decides after the fact to add a restriction that wasn't provided for in the Constitution, that would still be modifying their own rules to suit an individual purpose, which sets a dangerous precedent...
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modifying their own rules to suit an individual purpose, which sets a dangerous precedent...
Yeah - SCHSL would start to look like Nascar!
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Heh...they could introduce their own COT...the Constitution of Tomorrow...boxy, ugly, and unpopular with the fans, but flexible with large crumple zones for those times when it hits the wall hard.
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Coach Chass, let me say I meant that by interputing what you wrote:
"PROBATION: A team may compete in regularly scheduled contests but may not play in a jamboree, an invitational event or for a region or state championship"
To mean that since regular season games are counted for region standings probation "could" mean the games can not be counted toward region standing. No new rule would be required and we would end up with a sitution that was what the original penalty was meant to cause. Unless they would still get in at 1-0 (which I guess they would be if they win the one game after probation runs out.
I would believe the real measure here is what the original intention was! If it was intended that they not be in the playoffs this year then I think the coach/leauge sould do the right thing and show the boys that there is meaning to a punishment elsewise there was no real sanction provided for the action that took place!
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Hm...you have a point; I did wonder earlier whether "cannot play for a region championship" means the same as "cannot compete for region rank."
If you go for a strict interpretation of "may not play for a region championship" as in they can compete for and win any rank but the championship itself, then it would seem that the same interpretation would have to stand for "may not play for a state championship"--they could play in the playoffs all the way through the semifinals, but just couldn't compete in the final match for the championship.
If one interpretation of "play for championship" is right, then they both must be...likewise, if one is off, then both are....thoughts?
I've got good news and bad news...
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LET THEM PLAY... 365, or a full soccer year, that will have to be changed... nothing to do about it now... i like all the interest in the lowcountry... last season is over... its time for the playoffs... have Bluffton play a play-in game with someone who feels left out, or have them play the #1 team in lower state... would clear things up, till next year... as far as sitting out... BS
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is it possible for the region AD's to give bluffton the 5 seed so they won't be able to compete in the playoffs?
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ok well whether we like it or not, they are going to be in the playoffs. The question is now where do they get seeded (excluding the #5 seed)?
Scenario 1:
Blufton wins region by record(although they cannot claim region championship) and receives the #1 seed, they would play Dreher at home.
Scenario 2:
Blufton wins region by record (although they cannot win region championship) and receives the #2 seed because they cannot claim region championship, they would be at home vs. Airport.
Scenario 3:
No matter of record, the region votes them to the #4 seed, they would have to travel to S. Aiken.
Which one of these is most logical and would you predict? This is assuming they win the region outright.
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HTP, on a separate note I've seen your work and any project you take on would be high quality. How much would it take to move you about an hour down I-20?
Thanks....but sorry. My heart (and son) is at BC
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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I would like to see scenario 3, if you're not going to enforce the probation, then atleast take away the home game and make them earn it.
However, bot scenario 1 and 2 will be difficult for them with Dreher being a pretty good team with a bad record. Airport being the team that knocked them out last year and being there at the beginning of all of this. Scenario 2 might give them a little redemption and a chance to show their true character.
Maradona good, Pele better, George Best.
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atleast take away the home game and make them earn
Bingo!!! I like that idea (no home field advantage throughout the playoffs)
“Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences.”
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418
goal
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goal
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418 |
It's not going to matter much regarding Bluffton because they haven't played anyone decent all year except for Hilton Head and that was a tie (beat the Hawks on PKs). Everyone else stinks on their schedule.
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159 |
An article on the situation from Sunday's Island Packet. The author Justin Jarrett was actually at last year's game when the infraction happened. http://www.islandpacket.com/1383/story/833414.html
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418
goal
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goal
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418 |
That's about right!
"Actually, there is. They can start by changing the constitution to eliminate this loophole. And when another such situation arises, instead of passing the buck to someone else, they can take a stand and do what a governing body is supposed to do -- govern."
Well, I for one would not take any "punishment" from the HSL seriously because all you have to do is buckle or raise cane and they stick their heads in the sand. They've lost so many court cases and rulings lately that they can't afford any more legal fees. Just "govern" your own program and you will be fine.
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15
bench
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bench
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15 |
No matter the scenario that comes out of this, Bluffton has a tough road ahead of them, hopefully they'll be well rested and ready to play.
"Agree to disagree"
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409 |
The plot thickens: According to my little ol cheat sheet http://216.27.84.134/cgi-bin/sicfrp.pl?S...3a&State=scBluffton play Hilton Head Island tomorrow. If HHI wins, they are tied for first place for Region VIII-AAA. Your the Region VIII-AAA AD....what call do you make?
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15
bench
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bench
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15 |
Hilton Head Island would be my choice, on strength of schedule alone.
"Agree to disagree"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719 |
Blufton owns tiebreaker fyi
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409 |
Quote:
Blufton owns tiebreaker fyi
OK. How come? Record? Alphabetical order? This year’s alignment of the planets?
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15
bench
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bench
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15 |
Oh, you could be right htp. But I thought it was because Bluffton has cooler uniforms...
"Agree to disagree"
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409 |
Quote:
Oh, you could be right htp. But I thought it was because Bluffton has cooler uniforms...
But do they have cooler "on the road" uniforms 
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 787
Brace
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Brace
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 787 |
I thought the tiebreaker was decided on a pushing contest.......  j/k
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719 |
I don't know what the tiebreaker is, that is just what I was told from Hilton Head Coach Wayne Quinlan.
and this season, it may be the alignment of the planets....
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146
Goal Kick
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Goal Kick
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146 |
Last edited by lfc; 05/08/09 03:33 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44
kick off
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kick off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44 |
congrats to coach Cook and to the Bluffton boys, they cant take this away... good luck in the playoffs... i went to Dreher, hoping for everlasting pks
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 202
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 202 |
Bluffton will still have their hands full in the first round playoff game. From what I have seen Dreher is the most dangerous 4 win team in 3A.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 309
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 309 |
Dreher has a talented team, dont think it will be enough to bring out the upset in the first round.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719 |
I think it is going to be a great match up. Dreher can't be underestimated in this one.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719 |
midlands kid did you get my pm? I think it may have bounced back.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 719 |
anyone have coach Cooke's email or contact info?
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 62
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 62 |
Well, Bluffton you won't be there next week!
Yeah!! HAHA
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