SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Boys Varsity Soccer The rankings are a joke for 3A

Will someone please tell me the process of ranking teams!! I thought that the end of the year rankings would be determined by the performance of the teams at the END OF THE YEAR! Therefore the teams who made a long playoff run should be rewarded with a high ranking... also wouldnt it make sinse to rank a team higher than a team they beat in playoffs?

Yes I believe that over-all performance should be included. Eventhough Bluffton did have 17 wins their schedule was very easy, I agree with you that Socastee should be higher. BC should be higher than NMB and because Airport beat BC at The Cage in the 3rd round of the play-offs 2-0 then Airport should be higher than both of them. The top four placements are good but from there on it is questionable.

Yes I believe that over-all performance should be included.

FWIW, NMB actually tied BC at 0-0. PKs were the difference. BC beat Airport 2 out of 3 times and 5-4 on aggregate. The balance of power is still in the upstate.

Listed below are the criteria used for ranking Class 3A Boys - this method is used for every classification. I did not include teams 1-3 or 13-15 as those seem pretty straight forward to all.

#4 CHAPIN (4-1-0, 80.0%, 12 GF, 5 GA, +111, 247-136-8)
3-0 A.C. Flora
1-0 vs. North Myrtle Beach
2-1 @ Airport
5-2 @ A.C. Flora
1-2 Eastside

#5 NORTH MYRTLE BEACH (3-1-2, 66.7%, 7 GF, 3 GA, +43, 187-144-7)
3-0 @ Myrtle Beach
0-1 vs. Chapin
0-0 @ Socastee
2-1 Socastee
2-1 Myrtle Beach
0-0 Brookland-Cayce

#6 RIVERSIDE (1-4-1, 25.0%, 7 GF, 16 GA, +78, 215-137-10)
1-2 vs. J.L. Mann
2-1 Greenville
2-2 J.L. Mann
1-5 vs. Eastside
0-1 vs. Eastside
1-5 J.L. Mann

#7 BROOKLAND-CAYCE (3-3-1, 50.0%, 7 GF, 7 GA, +108, 268-160-9)
1-0 A.C. Flora
0-1 @ South Aiken
3-1 Airport
1-2 South Aiken
2-1 @ Airport
0-0 @ North Myrtle Beach
0-2 Airport

#8 AIRPORT (2-5-2, 33.3%, 12 GF, 17 GA, +38, 190-152-7)
2-2 A.C. Flora
1-2 South Aiken
1-3 @ Brookland-Cayce
1-2 Chapin
3-3 @ South Aiken
1-2 Brookland-Cayce
1-0 @ Hilton Head Island
2-0 @ Brookland-Cayce
0-3 @ South Aiken

#9 SOCASTEE (2-2-1, 50.0%, 5 GF, 5 GA, +25, 123-98-1)
2-1 Myrtle Beach
0-0 North Myrtle Beach
2-0 @ Myrtle Beach
1-2 @ North Myrtle Beach
0-2 @ South Aiken

#10 DANIEL (1-4-0, 25.0%, 8 GF, 13 GA, +31, 153-122-4)
1-2 @ Greenville
2-4 @ J.L. Mann
1-3 @ J.L. Mann
4-2 A.C. Flora
0-2 J.L. Mann

#11 A.C. FLORA (1-4-1, 25.0%, 7 GF, 15 GA, +38, 177-139-8)
0-1 @ Brookland-Cayce
2-2 @ Airport
0-3 @ Chapin
2-5 Chapin
1-0 Greenville
2-4 @ Daniel

#12 GREENVILLE (1-7-0, 12.5%, 6 GF, 15 GA, +61, 192-131-2)
1-4 vs. Eastside
1-2 @ Riverside
2-1 Daniel
0-2 @ Eastside
1-2 @ J.L. Mann
0-1 Eastside
1-2 J.L. Mann
0-1 @ A.C. Flora

NON-SC TEAMS
22-2-2 Farragut (TN)
18-6-1 Bob Jones (AL)
14-2-0 Norman North (OK)
12-5-2 Knox West (TN)
? Mowat Collegiate (CAN)
? Saltfleet (CAN)
? Wexford Collegiate (CAN)

weak argument. Last year, Airport's girls beat BC girls both times in the regular season and lost to them in the 3rd round of the playoffs. In the end, BC was ranked higher on the final rankings. Shouldn't it be the same for the boys?

These are just inconsistencies. Like telling a referee, "you don't have to be good, just be consistent."

Yes the upstate holds the top 3 out of 4 ranks in the state, however lowerstate holds the champion. As far as overall rankings there are 7 upperstate teams and 8 lowerstate teams, not to mention that Chapin has been a lowerstate team the past few years. However I will say that if South Aiken was still in 4A and Chapin was still in the lowerstate then Chapin would have made it to the state finals to face Eastside.

Who is on the committee for ranking???

give you one guess...

Stats don't lie

The rapper formally known as "Freaky" is back

By that token, I think the rankings should be as follows:

1-3
-----------------------------
80%, Chapin (4 wins vs. AAA ranked teams)
67%, North Myrtle Beach (3)
50%, Brookland-Cayce (3)
-----------------------------
50%, Socastee (2)
33%, Airport (2)
25%, Riverside (1)
-----------------------------
25%, Daniel (1)
25%, A.C. Flora (1)
13%, Greenville (1)
-----------------------------
13-15

Pretty sensible though anyway you look at it. Eastside is #2 where we belong in 2009!

What are you implying? You want some adlibs from my adlib box?

I think 1-4 should be finalists and semifinalist. After that you can do whatever spotty stats you want. You can only complain about an easy ride in the playoffs for so long. Eventually you have to stop.

Region V???

SA vs Battery Creek, BC vs Stall-Both cakewalks
AHS and Dreher-much harder first round

2nd round-AHS had it easier than BC and SA.

3rd round-you have to stop complaining by this point about "easy ride" but SA with an easier round than 2nd. Airport, BC-well balanced.

Did Airport deserve to be where they were? Absolutely! Everyone had at least 1 easy match in the playoffs.

You cant base rankings on percentages... like region V where the top 3 teams made it to the 3rd round and SA and Airport were in the lowerstate finals... this is a tough region where games go either way. Yes the easy ride crap is getting annoying. If you make it to the lowerstate finals then you have beaten at least one easy team and one or two tough teams. The "easy ride" crap is getting old. I agree with letmetallya. Shut up and play soccer.

ManU I like your style and your team...the reality is every year someone asks the same questions about rankings because they are inconsistent. Just let the coaches vote on it or have a region representative vote on it. It's the only way someone can KNOW that it's fair. Haven't we already proven the BCS doesn't work?

ultimately, if you're not first, you're last!

Still say if I was Bluffton with a 17-1 record sandwiched between a 15-10 team and a 9-7-2 team(from my region therefore a fairly similar schedule) I would be a little upset with a #14 ranking. Ditto for Socastee with 5 losses including a pair to # 5 NMB and losses to # 1 South Aiken and a early season loss to Dutch Fork - that leaves their worst loss being an ot loss to Waccamaw.

Personally I would say Bluffton maybe # 9 or 10 and Socastee about #7.

1)South Aiken
2)Eastside
3)J.L. Mann
4)Chapin
5)Airport
6)Riverside
7)Brookland-Cayce
8)NMB
9)Socastee
10)Greenville
11)Daniel
12)Myrtle Beach
13)A.C. Flora
14)Hilton Head Island
15)Bluffton

Thats what i think

Why can't it be just a coaches' poll? Much easier

because that too much work, i prefer biased judges making a top 15 list

I am sure there are a lot of coaches who would like some say in this...

The stats are flawed. Enough said. I see many errors in the list. Its stupid and should not even be used in making the rankings... but in the end we all know who beat who when it counted...

I'm going to be a self advocate for my team here. And I know this will cause some flack, but here goes...

Blue Ridge finished the season 14-7, and in second place in our region (and I realize we aren't in the strong regions 2 or 5). If you do the quick math, that is a 67% winning record. Of the 7 losses, 4 were in tournaments. Tournaments are over and above your normal 16 game schedule, and not every team elects to play in tournaments.
I know our opponents records are weak, and that is probably the one thing what ultimately hurt us. You also have to consider that not every game is reported on scsoccer. I know that a few teams in my region had other games that are not reported and had a few more wins. But because they did not report them to scsoccer, that hurts my team. Is that fair? Some of the games you cannot control (region opponents) others I did have control of. However, it is difficult to get teams to play you sometimes and you have to get what you can get! I am already working on our schedule for next year and hope to have a much different looking opponents record. If anyone is looking for a match, send me a PM.
However, we had 3 significant wins. Defeated Mauldin twice. They are a #9 4A team who made it to the 3rd round of play-offs. We also defeated Wade Hampton. Wade Hampton is a school with a strong soccer history, and had they not been in region 2 would have made a very significant play-off run!
We did lose to Riverside by 1, and then by 4. We also lost to Boiling Springs and Clover who each flirted with the top 15 in 4A at least one or two weeks. We also lost to Walhalla who played for the upper-state in 2A. Our play-off loss to Seneca in the first round was in "golden goal."
If you look at schedules, we not only beat the teams we should (according to win-loss records) we had wins over teams with winning records. There are some teams ranked in the top 15 that have very few wins, if any wins, over teams with a winning record. So in other words they only beat the weak teams...they pulled no so called upsets!

A few of you made very valid points. Are rankings difficult? Of course! And I know that Kyle & Kevin spend several hours each week working on the rankings. If you look at other ranking systems, high school, college, etc... they typically are done by more than 2 people. Look at the AP college poll. That is done by writers from all over the nation. Does each writer have the opportunity to see all teams play? No, but when you have so many voting it all balances out. Could a committee be done in SC? I'm sure those of us that care about high school soccer would be willing to analyze what we can and send an email to a central location.

Before this season, most people think of Blue Ridge and they mentally think, "that's another win." Coach Sumwalt (ROH) and myself are committed to making Blue Ridge a school with a respected soccer program, both girls and boys. My boys are working very hard to change that! This season we were fortunate enough to start a JV program, which we hope will only help to make us better for the future. I have a senior on my team who won only 1 game his freshman year! This year he could proudly say, "we won 14 games!"

There's my soap box for the night. If I am out of line by advocating for my team...well then get over it! But like I said, my boys are working very hard and I felt that others in the soccer community should know about it. We look forward to next season...see you guys on the field!

Let's see what Mr. Massey has to say when all said and done.

We don't need a BCS like system or a commitee to vote.

The rankings are just fun to look at.

Kyle and Kevin do a fantastic job.
(Though often BC's next opponent often jumps a couple spots in the poll before the game.)

Quote:

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ultimately, if you're not first, you're last!

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Completely agree ^

definitely agree wunderkid, which doesn't happen very often.

do the rankings really matter to anyone that didn't win it all? they're fun to look at and to get your kids pumped for an upset, but in the end, they're just there for people to talk about.

Consultant Bunce you are so wise...

how about....all of you complaining go and start your own site, so you can post your own rankings. Then we can have something to compare! Until you do...Chill out! I'm sure those in charge of making the poll have something better to do with his time than collect all the stats/scores from every team in the state and make a poll.
I agree that the polls are nothing other than a way to see how teams finished. Personally I see nothing wrong with the order of the polls, no matter which games that mattered in the end

When it comes right down to it South Aiken won state - while others may have had seasons they are proud of - only one team has the hardware that counts - so why complain if you are a couple of spots lower than you feel you deserve - you could have fixed it on the field.

Well if you want a coaches poll you have to get coaches to do some work. Point blank. Not hide behind screen names and complain. Join the coaches association pay your dues and get involved. I can tell you in my 8-10 years working with the SCHSSCA, the volunteers were quiet limited to the old timers and the BC staff. Facts are Facts. Sure you had your occasional helper at the All-State Meetings to get a kid on the list but mostly it was Dickie Smith, Uncle Frank, William Hosea, Troy Bennage, Tom Reiley, Scott Ruggles, Todd Robinson, Heises, Wayne Quinlan, Anthony Pelton,Ron Brady that did the majority of the work.(sorry if I missed anyone)

I can also tell you that I have sat and witnessed many many sunday afternoons of "doing rankings" and they are not fun!!

If you would like to volunteer to help with the rankings I am sure kevin and kyle or the SCHSSCA would love to have the help.

If you are a coach that is not satisfied with the rankings let me ask you this: How much are you involved? Are you a SCHSSCA member? Do you attend the meetings etc? Have you offered your opinion to the SCHSSCA board? If you answered no to any of these questions you need to ask yourself WHY NOT. Money is not a good enough reason not to be involved. Every coach has family or other responsibilities. Coaches need to make excuses to be involve rather than making excuses why they cant be involved. JMHO.

ManU, why would you have Hilton Head ranked above Bluffton when Bluffton beat Hilton Head twice this season?

I dont know to much about those teams, but i think that Bluffton won one on pks and Bluffton lost to a 4 seed in the playoffs and Hilton Head lost to Airport who made it to the semis. 13,14,15 could go either way i think.

Im sorry but as and Airport Alumni im not surprised one bit by the fact that BC is ranked higher than Airport. The fact that Airport lost to SA 3-0 the next day after a passionate win against BC the team was just physically drained. And if anybody had been at two of the regular season matches both of them could have gone to airport but with some iffy calls by refs the usual happened to Airport. Also Bluffton may have had the easier schedule but you can say that they didnt deserve a higher ranking than HH seeing that that beat HH twice this year.

Sorry but I don't see the argument. BC beat Airport 2 of 3, outscored them 5-4, and finished 2nd in region compared to 3rd. That's head-to-head "wins" in every category! I'm sure the Massey Ratings will end this debate. Good seasons by both teams it appears from relatively youthful sides.

Soccer101 your argument is ridiculous! Just because Airport got hot and won a few games in the end doesn't entitle them to anything. Since AC Flora beat you should they be in the top 5 in the state? Also it looks to me that Brookland Cayce has 3 results better than you and one less loss. Be happy with your ranking and do the talking on the field next year.

Results????

let's look at strength of schedule with your wins Young Jeezy (Freaky Zeaky). Eau Claire? Clinton? Wilson? Covenant Central?

What about your loss to Dreher? At least AHS can say they are the only team to beat the 3A State Champions.

The talking will be done on the field, in the end it'll be you talking on the message boards hiding behind a screen name.

I honestly don't see a point to any of this arguing. The season is over. Get your squads ready and prepare for next season. Only then can we tell who should be ranked where.

To be honest I don't even know why I'm bothering with this because I don’t really care, but it seems to me maybe an outside perspective is needed...
BC's opponents record was 214-150-4 and finished with a record of 15-9-2. Airport’s opponents were 190-152-7 and finished 14-10-0. So losses are pretty much the same, and so are the draws. The 24 in difference could be attributed to BC because of the Palmetto cup teams they faced, but nope, just checked those have 0-0 beside them so they don't count except for a good 14 win Walhalla team. But just so we know BC played Norman North, Farragut, and Bob Jones and lost to all three but just looking to add to the opponents’ column. NN went 14-2 in Oklahoma and lost in the QF. Farragut finished 22-2-2 and won the Tennessee State Title. Bob Jones from Alabama finished 18-6-1.

Also, I see that BC played and lost I might add to the 2a State Champions of BE. They also played a 18 win team of Gilbert, 14 (A.C. Flora), 20 (South Aiken), 14 (Batesburg-Leesville), 16 (Covenant Central), 14 (Walhalla),13 (Wilson), 19 (North Myrtle Beach) and a 14 (Airport). Against these teams regardless of how good you think they are, they went 7-6.

Airport on the other hand played a 11 win Aiken, 15 (White Knoll), 14 (A.C. Flora), 14 (Thomas Sumter), 20 (South Aiken), 15 (BC), 15 (Chapin), 11 (Ridge View), 18 (Fort Mill), and 12 (Blythewood). Against the teams (again no matter how good you think they are), Airport went 4-10.

Now for the “cup cakes” (for the sake of argument any team that is 10 wins and under): BC played James Island, Fort Dorchester, Dreher (2), Sumter, Swansea (2), Clinton, Eau Claire, and Stall. Airport played RNE, Dreher, Swansea, Heathwood Hall, LE, HHI, and St. James. BC played 10 games against these 8 opponents 7-1-2. Airport played 9 games against these 7 teams and went 9-0. Not that much difference really but I’ll give the edge to Airport.

Again, I don’t really care how it ended but I have seen this go from thread to thread and I figured that I would get in on the action. In closing I think both these teams are where they need to be, right next to each other. Personally, having been to all three matches between the two of them and enjoying myself, I’m hoping this will just make the two go that much harder next season. Sorry for the long post…apparently I do care!

I think what is starting to get me is that I don't see Myrtle Beach, North Myrtle Beach and Socastee or Bluffton and Hilton Head bickering back and forth like this. Region V proved to be a strong region in the playoffs - don't ruin what the region proved with all this which in the end doesn't matter much anyway. South Aiken won state and neither BC/ Airport were quite top 5 material. While I admire the passion this rivalry seems to have it's time for both sides to get over it and move on - you are starting to make your programs look bad bickering over spots 7 and 8!

Oh and one last thing - The State Newspaper has published their Top 10 Team Accomplishments for 2008-09. Sorry to inform you, while Dutch Fork Golf and Heathwood Hall Girls Track made the list, neither of you did!

The State Top 10 Team Accomplishments 2008 - 2009

Agree with BLS! I did see Irmo boys soccer made the list.

agreed, let's leave this one alone. Both teams had excellent seasons.

The reason why anything was said was because i felt that the seniors deserved a better ranking to leave on after an incredible ending to the season.

Well don't forget, most teams have seniors and everyone wants to be recognized a little higher. Since this has probably been the best (by record) team that Airport has ever fielded, that should be enough. Your program hasn't much to brag about in the past but definately has changed this season. A win against BC, a win against the State Champions South Aiken, and a finalist for the Lower State. Don't get caught up with rankings, your seniors should be proud for what they have accomplished regardless.

I couldn't have said it any better. It's ridiculous to sit on a computer and argue when the season is over. If anything the rankings should motivate both teams. Can't wait to see them both play next season, as well as many other teams

Don't be so harsh on the Airport fans/players, they aren't used to winning and being ranked.

BTW, I'm an "ex" bcsoccerdad, not current, in case my comment upsets anyone.

HOLY CRAP! Where's Achmed when you need him (SmallSodaMan)

too much bickering back and forth BC- and AHS-ers over placement that is not relevant. The only 2 spots that really matter are 1 and 2 - the rest is just board fodder. Congrats to both teams for fine seasons - as well as the other deserving teams. Both squads are young and no doubt will be back bigger/faster/stronger and strive to continue to build on the groundwork of this season no matter what final rank they were assigned. I don't know for sure but based on the number of losses each has, I'm confident that both coaches would tell you there were games they should have won but didn't (thus loing the opportunity to put the debate to rest...(aside from the unbeaten coaches - all could probably say this) and know they have to limit the inconsistency to push to the next level next season.
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Brian-where are you.....

Airport won the state title in 1972-73 when soccer was still not sanctioned by the SCHSL.

Brookland-Cayce has never won a state title in boys soccer, but has finished Runners-Up in 1974-75, 2001, and 2002.

As for the bickering between the two sister Lexington Two schools, it is somewhat disheartening, because personally I've often viewed the Cayce/West Columbia soccer community much the same (Airport/B-C) and hope that the student-athletes at both schools experience much success as it only makes our area look better. Of course, I want to win as much as the next person, but I am pleased that Coach Masone has been able to elevate the Eagle Soccer program to its' present level. It's just good for prep soccer! Best of luck Airport!

Thanks coach... for all my AHS people who keep posting on this topic, please stop. We had a great season, let's leave it at that.