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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 11
bench
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bench
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 11 |
Quote:
Mama/Team Mama/I have a sneaking suspicion that we would not be having this discussion if MPSC 18G had won last Saturday and Sunday.
to Silence...unlike you, I signed my name to my post so save your sarcasm in the address line. Your posts are all sarcastic and offer no helpful solutions. If you knew me, you would believe my earlier post that I would bring the situation up win or lose.
This board is alot about opinions and I knew I would take a hit on the board for bringing this out in the open and it is worth it.
Padding a team for the purpose of winning is wrong no matter what club does it, but the majority of examples I received involve primarily one club.
I am asking the right questions to SCYSA and if nothing can be done about it, that's the way it is. At least the situation is out in the light.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 36
kick off
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kick off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 36 |
Raekwon, let me add my 2 cents in here. I am pretty sure after Rob's 5 nil domination of Cesa last year, that he is not worried about going head to head with any Cesa team or coach..
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 273
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 273 |
OMG..this thread just won't die Let's move on to something else PLEASE! 
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 60
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 60 |
Mama K.... Pot Calling Kettle....
Your team did the same thing that you are accusing the CESA team doing. You added a player from another club prior to the State Cup Roster Freeze. I think that it worse than what you are accusing CESA of doing. You feign outrage, but can't seem to see the link between your addition and CESAs "outrageous" addition. I think that if you look at this in an unbiased manner (did not have any kids involved) you will see that the 2 situations are nearly identical.
Just an opinion so take it for what it is worth.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 166
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 166 |
CESA and MP are not the only clubs to amend rosters before state cup. Last year, Red Bulls combined their 17 and 18 girls teams to create a much stronger 18 team to compete in state cup last year. The 17 team did not qualify for cup play and the 18 team had been a so so team that was much stronger with the addition of the strongest 17s they added to the roster late in the season.
This is a little different situation than the ones mentioned in the discussion so far because all players involved had played in USYSA sanctoned events during the fall, but on different teams. Is this ethical?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457
Hat-Trick
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Hat-Trick
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457 |
Quote:
...Is it ethical? Everyone has an opinion.Discoveries 18 Boys just won the National Championship.Great team and fun to watch,but didn't Sebastian Velasquez reappear after missing regionals and claim the Golden Boot at Nationals.I don't think we want them to hand the trophy back even though he must have taken playing time away from someone....
In order to play at regionals and nationals you had to be rostered with the team during state cup. You cannot add after the state cup. one of the reasons why U18 teams end up playing with 11 players at regionals.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Coach, I was responding to an analogy that compared this to a DOC taking over a coach's team at the last minute before a state cup game and I said not many coaches would continue to coach under those conditions. I just meant to be saying that if the conditions were that bad, players would be leaving and they are not.
I have coached in several state cups and teams I coached won two. I have added players mid-season but not just before the roster freeze so they could play at the State Cup. But I have taken guest players to tournaments and I think both situations are similiar in that it really depends on how it is handled. Players do not like to have guest players come in and take their playing time unless they see a benefit in it for them and they feel that it is being done fairly. When there is a shortage of players due to injuries or other absences, they are usually happy to have the assistance as long as they don't feel they would get less playing time than they would if their injured/absent teammates were there. So I don't think we should out-and-out comdemn players being added or guest players being used across the board. It is a case-by-case situation that has to be handled by the coach hopefully in a way that is beneficial to all involved.
But I do feel like it is a demand driven situation. If these types of things are being mis-handled to the point of mass disatisfaction, players will leave and either changes will be made or the program will fail to be prosperous.
I agree with what you're saying, Coach P; I was just concerned about how it may have been interpreted, and thanks for the clarification. Most teams (including mine) have used guest players for tournaments, and in situations where teams are short-handed, they are usually welcomed for providing some relief and a better chance for the team to be successful--which is not the same as having a full boat and benching players who have been with the team the whole time in favor of "ringers."
Not sure if players leaving or not leaving is always an accurate measure of their feelings about a policy; as long as the product or service that the club is providing is seen as one they need or aren't willing to part with, people are willing to put up with a lot of negatives in order to reach what they perceive as the positive. As Jefferson said, "mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Doesn't make it right; just makes it feasible without loss of players. (I'm not saying this applies to the current discussion of adding players to the roster--having guest players to help a team over a hurdle in order to gain more exposure for everyone can be seen as a good thing for all in the long run--just the "if they're not leaving, it must be ok" idea in general.)
Just as a matter of general philosophy, I've always felt that unless there are debilitating holes in the roster due to unexpected or uncontrollable losses in personnel, teams should, as the old-timers would say, "dance with them that brung ya to the ball"--in other words, let the players who got the team through the season be the ones to compete for the crown. That way, when a team and its club earn a title, naysayers don't have as much opportunity to suggest that it was because of players whose difference-making training and experience took place somewhere other than the club that takes credit for the win.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Coach C, where were you 187492 pages ago!?!
Well said!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
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goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
Parker/Mak/Kwon:
You KEEP bringing up Lonestar, the Texans, AFC and AFU; and I KEEP responding (and this is exactly why I asked you to "read the words slowly and carefully, please") for you to "try and compare "before" and "after" rosters – I don't think it can be done." If you think those teams are the same, go get the "before" and "after" rosters and show it. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.
You said: "You yourself mention development but knowingly don't say anything about it being result driven" - sure, it IS "result driven" (if that's the term you wish to use) but the result they are "driving" for is most certainly not a state or regional championship. Have you figured out yet what it is?
You have not heard me make one comment about cesa, nor anyone else, using players during the state cup. There may have been an uproar (although, that seems a little dramatic of a word) but it had nothing to do with me and I wasn't a part of it – don't drag me into that one.
You have been misquoting me as three different people (who knows, maybe more) for quite some time now – I KEEP trying to tell you (yet again) that I am NOT against cesa. I AM against the self-righteous and the haters of the world. I do not dislike cesa. Have nothing against them. For the most part, I have nothing but respect for what they've done. I am all for increasing the level of soccer in this state as a WHOLE. Obviously, cesa has done more than their share of this. But what I do dislike are people who get on here and preach of the infallibility of cesa; and that if you aren't doing it "our" way (read: the cesa way), then you are doing it the "wrong" way. People like loc dog (who has been suspiciously quiet since this last time you changed your name) have made it very clear they care nothing about anybody in the rest of the state - he is all about cesa. THAT is the kind of attitude i have a problem with.
So when you say "What I don't have time for is you and your lackeys trying to make your club something it is not" all I ask is for you to show me where I have made "my" club out to be anything other than what it is. And I'm not teaming up with anybody here – please stop using other posters' quotes as somehow being thoughts of mine.
You also say "if CESA goes academy . . . when it was . . . apples to apples CESA dominated the state." I can tell you haven't gone to the Academy site yet, because you still aren't getting it. If cesa ever goes Academy, I don't know what you're gonna do with yourself, because all that stuff just doesn't matter anymore.
But because I care, I'll try one more, different approach to try and clue you in. Here goes: let's suppose, for a moment, that cesa does get in the academy. And let's suppose little johnny, who lives in charleston, drives all the way to greenville to be on the cesa academy team. You know what? I could care less. And it doesn't matter whether little johnny is a mediocre player, or if he's the next enzo. Do you know why? Because the way the Academy is set up, the players at my Academy team will get the exact same number of visits from US Soccer scouts and evaluators as your Academy team. Like I said, we all love to win, but in the Academy, it just doesn't have the same significance.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
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OP
world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
I head to the islands for a week of R&R and I come back to a 26-page novel on the results of State Cup!  All I got out of this is, at the U-18 girls level, Mount Pleasant and Carolina Elite cheat. Wow!  This can only be attributed to the overabundance of Wando (MPSC) and Mauldin (CESA) girls being involved in the process! Can't wait until HS soccer gets started. Yeah Mon! 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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