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Would the top players be better served by playing club soccer year-round? It's an interesting question that I don't recall seeing discussed at much length around here. Curious as to what folks think.
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I have a D-1 recruited daughter who also plays club. She gets world-class competition at the club level on the good side. She had one great coach and one average coach on the neutral side. The great coach (Chris Nichols, Christ Church/CESA) helped her immeasureably through skill improvement, (real) confidence building, and by being the perfect role model for a young lady.
Then, she played high school for two coaches. The first ran a muffler shop in town and coached for a few years. Most games they won was 6, and they didn't really have that much fun. Second coach is an old guy who is retired and just giving back. She gets a lot of "feel goods" from high school soccer. It is never bad to be the best when you walk on the field, and she has learned humility by the way she acts towards everyone which I really love. Most importantly, she has a blast. When she missed a year with a torn ACL, her comment to the doctor about the worst thing about it was: "I don't get to have fun anymore."
She wins and has fun with class and respect playing club, and she wins and has fun with class and respect playing high school soccer. That's the kind of kid she is, and the kind of kid that proper soccer programs and processes encourage.
Both were great.
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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Stronger players in club soccer so I would say club soocer year round..The level of play from your competition is more consistant in club ball also..I do think that high school ball helps build confidence in the club players that do not stand out on their club teams..They are put in situations where they could help lead their high school team but play a lesser role on the club team.
I like high school season because the kids I think have more fun with the sport.There is not that pressure one might feel that if I mess up I will lose my position..Kids need to be able to let their hair down and enjoy the sport for what it is..a game.
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I personally know of a player who was initially spotted by USC at a high school soccer game. The USC assistant Coach came to one of their games to watch a senior play, and noticed a sophomore and ended up liking him a lot more. After that game the sophomore was recruited by USC and ended up playing at USC. High school soccer can get SC players exposure to SC colleges. But in most cases, to get exposure from out of state schools, club soccer is the better avenue.
One Time!
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CHT, well put...I think most players (individual situation-dependent, of course) benefit from both. Putting players into highly-challenging club competition builds skill and stamina for top-level play. Stepping onto the high school field with those skills gives them opportunity to gain confidence in their progress as a player (which can greatly influence state of mind when they return to the next club season) and also gives them a measure of how their efforts allow them to stack up against players who compete and train in different settings.
High school soccer does seem to come with a much greater sense of enjoyment and passionate team spirit, which brings a whole new mental and emotional dimension into play...and yes, in the right environment, it's also just good fun, which I think is essential for a sport to get the most out of its players and for the players to get the most out of the sport. If you don't have time to really enjoy yourself...what's the point, right?
And ROH...don't sell the old guy short, I hear he brings a pretty decent skill set to the table.
Hasn't been discussed at length before? Really? I experienced a really strong sense of deja vu as I was typing this...
I've got good news and bad news...
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high school soccer is like a pinata party for club players.
unless high school goes elite like i have stated before, hs soccer would just be a little fun to get popular at school.
when you see scores like 7-0 and perfect records at the of the season, thats when you know high school soccer is a big joke.
i love high school soccer, dont get me wrong, but high school soccer is far away from competing vs the academy level.
for what is worth, i gone say it one more time. get the best hs programs in the state, have a real elite competition and stop making club kids to waste their time... maybe im a little harsh but that is how i see it.
come on, you have top programs playing vs some urban programs where kids are wearing bk shorts to their practices, are you serious?
Club of the century.
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come on, you have top programs playing vs some urban programs where kids are wearing bk shorts to their practices, are you serious?
And on the international scene, we have players who grew up wearing cutoff jeans practicing soccer in the streets who are kicking our elitist-attitude, club-dependent butts.
Not sure whether to file that one under "irony" or "what was your point again?"
Agreed, there is a great imbalance among competing teams when it comes to experience and talent level, and I often find myself wishing it was a bit more even, but what you call a "joke," I see a lot of young people putting a lot of effort and heart into...and what they pour out onto the field has very little to do with what kind of practice shorts they show up in.
High school soccer and club soccer are very different, and club does involve a consistently higher level of competition, but I think both programs help to develop different aspects of the total player.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Alma,
I am going to disagree with you for one moment. Last I checked, Coach Wren's club team went through SC, Regionals and Nationals without losing a game. I guess that must be a "joke" too. Although I do agree with you that a relegation/promotion system would be better, never gonna happen.
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I appreciate the fact that the club and high school are listed. They go hand-in-hand in my opinion!
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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High School teams practice 5-6 days a week.
Clubs practice 2 maybe 3 times a week.
How can more touches on the ball impede someones development??
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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It depends. If you have a coach whose idea of soccer is kick it long out of the back and let a fast guy run on to it, yes...it can impede their progress. Tons of practice doesn't mean jack if your tons of practice are incorrect technique. It could mean you are doing it tons of times the wrong way
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It depends. If you have a coach whose idea of soccer is kick it long out of the back and let a fast guy run on to it, yes...it can impede their progress. Tons of practice doesn't mean jack if your tons of practice are incorrect technique. It could mean you are doing it tons of times the wrong way
You may be right, but I personally don't know one kid that plays for a higher level club that doesn't also have a quality High School coach.
They tend to be synonymous with one another.
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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That's because their club coach or a coach from the club coaches the High school team. Rare to find a HS coach that isn't a club coach but it is common to find some good club coaches that don't coach HS.
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That's because their club coach or a coach from the club coaches the High school team. Rare to find a HS coach that isn't a club coach but it is common to find some good club coaches that don't coach HS.
Ergo....In most cases, High School soccer does NOT impede development of top players.
And in fact, since player generally practice more during High School season, than club season, one could come to the conclusion that High School is actually better for the development of top players.
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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HeTakes, you personally don't know one kid that plays for a higher level club that doesn't also have a quality High School coach? Seriously? I can name a dozen without really thinking about it. And practicing 5 days a week vs 2 or 3 might be better in general, if ALL things were equal.
Except for probably 4 or 5 high schools in this state, I'd say that high school season impedes the top players, but helps the remainder. The area between the two groups is a gray one.
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and again i grew up in a place where if you were one of those kids that would play barefooted in the streets with jeans short but knew how to move la minga, you were brough to a club where you had south americans and sometimes european coaches teaching you how to play the proper game, the right equipments were given to you.
high school soccer has a few positive things, the best would be freshmen kids playing with and vs seniors.
the level is the one that is terrible and is sad that nobody think it should be fixed so kids can have a better competition, high school going elite should not even be an argument, it should be reality in the next few years.
about this season, you think nw and irmo are going to go back to the championship with perfect records or they gone lose 1 or 2 games? haha
i can see irmo losing a game when a team score a lucky goal out of a long ball, then puttin 11 men on defense the whole game.
thats what high school soccer is all about, top programs have like 4 real games out of 16? meh..
wish some of you would realize how much better and fun would be to have the real deal programs going at each other... different level of soccer.
Club of the century.
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HeTakes, you personally don't know one kid that plays for a higher level club that doesn't also have a quality High School coach? Seriously? I can name a dozen without really thinking about it. And practicing 5 days a week vs 2 or 3 might be better in general, if ALL things were equal.
Except for probably 4 or 5 high schools in this state, I'd say that high school season impedes the top players, but helps the remainder. The area between the two groups is a gray one.
Man...you just trashed most of the coaches from this state.
So there only 4 or 5 good enough coaches in this state to properly coach kids?....give me a break. I can name 30 off the top oh my head (maybe not their name, but their school). How many higher level soccer clubs are there? Where are they getting their coaches from? The numbers don't add up.
I'm familiar with 3 club programs. And no, I can't think of one kid that doesn't have a high caliber High School coach.
So, I'll call you to the mat.
You said a dozen, I just want two. Name me two kids that are being hurt by their High School coach, or that choose not to play high school ball.
“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
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omg - on the girl's side its all a step back playing hs. coaching, speed of play, fitness, lack of talent/competition. many teams have players that don’t even play club soccer. but it is fun.
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If you mean that instead of a spring school season there was just a spring club season (or fall in NC or elsewhere). Then I think the answer is obviously a yes.
However if you want to grow the sport you need to get people involved and watching the games and build a better understanding of the sport in the public. High school programs are building a fan base for a better future for the sport, hell when I was a kid (will leave the decade out) many high schools (even the big ones) did not even have soccer as a sport now most do.
I think the school programs with solid club support are still going to improve players (unless we move to the aforementioned club season twice a year). If anything I would like to see the rules set up to allow/encourage club play by schools based teams, not official school team of course but one whose coach and players could be mostly from a school if they wanted to. After all football has an officially approved spring/summer training season, really all year for top programs, yet we hamstring are players by making a hard line separation between club and school.
Yes I know there are $$$$ and other problems with this approach but I think that given a goal to achieve it some of the bright people here and around the state could come up with answers to the problems.
In the end the benefit would be to the players and the sport and of course the answer to the question would then be "Of Course Not!"
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My personal belief is it depends on the player. If the player is on a classic level or rec team during club ball season then plays on a high school team that has a fair amount of challenge, premier and even USSF Academy team players one of two things will most likely happen during high school season - they will get better because they are seeing a higher caliber ball than they see during club season or they will get totally frustrated because the level is beyond them.
If the player is on a Premier or USSF Acadmey team chances are they will not get as much out of high school season because they are facing lesser competition than they do during club season. The only good thing that can come out of this is it allows them to work on skills they may have had a little trouble with during club season.
I would think it goes without argument that premier or USSF Academy teams in this state would have little trouble with most high school teams in this state with the exception of 3 or 4 top notch programs.
The bottom line is premier or academy teams in this state are pretty much made up of the best players from many high schools throughout the state. When these guys practice together(even though only 2 or 3 times a week) they are bound to get more out of it than 5 days a week against lower level competition. They are the best this state has to offer and they push each other to get better. If you've never seen an academy practice I can promise you it can be intense. There is no a way a classic level player is going to push an academy level player to get better during high school season. On the other hand it is possible for a premier/academy player to push a classic level player to get better.
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Though there have been some good points made as to the good in HS soccer, I think the answer to the specific question I posed is an unqualified "yes." If the top players spent January-May preparing for and playing highly competitive games, whether in the Development Academy, Premier League, or Challenge League, rather than playing HS, their development would be enhanced. Mind you, that is not the same thing as saying HS soccer has no value, or even that the top players should abandon it in favor of club if that was an option. It does mean, to my mind, that we should at least consider the fact that a HS interregnum is inconsistent with US Soccer's overarching plan for improving the quality of American soccer.
(My comments are in the context of boys' soccer - though I don't know that there is any reason they wouldn't apply equally to girls).
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so...all of the high level club players that go to SA to play for their countries this summer will be taking a step back too?
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HeTakes…nope, you're reading too much into what I said, taking out of context and making too many assumptions. For one, I said "high school season" impedes, not "coaches." Bebe sums it up pretty nicely.
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Some players who play at the Academy level almost look to high school for a break. The academy teams take a break in their season for the players to play high school ball. Some say they like high school because they are relieved from all the pressure of academy and represent their school for a couple months.
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You could put any sport in the title of this thread and the answer would probably be yes..
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You could put any sport in the title of this thread and the answer would probably be yes..
Funny you mention this - I was talking with a friend about this the other day. Seems every major youth sport but football has "alternative to high school" leagues. Basketball has AAU; Baseball has winter leagues,travel ball,legion ball and soccer of course club ball.
Seems the only thing football offers is camps and combines and most of those are for skill postion players.
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You could put any sport in the title of this thread and the answer would probably be yes..
Funny you mention this - I was talking with a friend about this the other day. Seems every major youth sport but football has "alternative to high school" leagues. Basketball has AAU; Baseball has winter leagues,travel ball,legion ball and soccer of course club ball.
Seems the only thing football offers is camps and combines and most of those are for skill postion players.
probably more to do with funding than anything else. Can you imagine how much it would cost to run a football club with traveling teams? You couldn't do it on 500/player unless you sold tickets. Plus, every player would have to own their equipment
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Oh - I agree with the football expense. I was just pointing out all the "alternative to high school" sports progams that are available. Certainly were not that many when I was a kid. I guess all these are making kids specialize in "a" sport and pretty much led to the demise of the three sport athlete in high school.
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High school takes up 3 months, Club takes up 9. Surely if Club is so much better than HS, the good will outweigh the bad. If most hs coaches are club coaches, that means they have to (or suppose to) be licensed. This makes it a more even playing field for hs.
The thing I like about high school is it allows communities to compete against each other and see who is best. You could make the same argument about club, but club is more selective and allows kids to come and play from other parts of the state. Club is directly reflected in the high school standings. Irmo (CUFC), Northwestern (Discoveries) and anyone else you want to add.
Also, I think you see club soccer helping schools who don't have a soccer program. Look at Midland Valley, they have a few kids who play for GA/SC Bulls. Midland Valley's soccer program was started for those players this year.
Hs can promote Club soccer. Look at Airport. A few years ago they had maybe 7 kids playing club and they were struggling in HS league. Now they have almost their whole roster playing and they are going to be competing for region/state. Their coach is a club coach and I'm sure he is promoting his club.
So no, I don't think HS soccer impedes the development of top players. Danny Cates was a national pool player and he carried DF his senior year.
Laces out DAN!!!
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High School teams practice 5-6 days a week.
Clubs practice 2 maybe 3 times a week.
How can more touches on the ball impede someones development??
I have had this discussion a lot lately with club coaches discouraging kids from playing middle school ball. They say that the kids that leave our practices and arrive at theirs dont have the intensity that is needed. I agree that more touches is better for the kid.
The other arguement is that club kids play 37 games plus the 2 practices a week is too much for the kids on top of the school commitment. I was told that there are studies showing how physically it is bad for them.
I wonder how the Blythewood Middle girls did last year with club since that is what most of them were. Were there any extra injuries or fatigue due to them playing school and club.
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I have had this discussion a lot lately with club coaches discouraging kids from playing middle school ball.
Of course the club coaches discourage kids from playing middle school ball, this is where they derive their personal income from, so of course they are going to down-play a kid playing soccer for their high school JV or middle school team.
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Funny but follow the money seems to be the answer in life!? Not that every coach thinks of the money first, but you have to admit some do! BY "some" I can in no way quantify a fair percentage. Nor would I want to out of respect for the many great coaches I have met, and fear that I might not like what I find!
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So can someone shed some light as to the model in England? How do the youth there grow up in relation to club ball vs school ball etc.?
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Not sure about the Blythewood Middle girls, but I do know about the Gold Hill Middle school girls, who went undefeated after the Irmo preseason tournament, missed the semi's at Irmo on a PK shot out to break a tie.
10 seventh graders (Eighth graders this year) who are on the same club team had a very good season in NC classic soccer. (NC classic is SC's challenge level) The team as a whole stayed very healthy with only a couple girls having missed any playing time and both should be playing this spring. All are staying at the middle school level as 8th graders to play together.
In my opinion they seem to take great pride in their club play at school and consider their school team an extension of the club team. Does take a lot of commitment though! Which I also think of as another great lesson for them as well!
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So you are saying that your observations are that there doesnt appear to be a negative effect on them as players or health wise?
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So no, I don't think HS soccer impedes the development of top players. Danny Cates was a national pool player and he carried DF his senior year.
Fair enough. We differ on this but I respectfully disagree. I too like high school soccer allowing communities to compete against each other - but that is not the topic of this thread. Once again, I believe for the majority of your classic level players high school season does not necessarily impede their development. However; for your top level premier/academy players I personally believe high school ball may impede their development because of the level of competition not being as strong.(Particularly at high school practice). If you look at the SC United U16 and U 18 rosters they are pretty much teams full of the best players from high schools in the midlands and lower state. (I realize CESA gets some top level players from other parts of the state and SC United gets some from other parts of the state too). For most of these top level players they are constantly being pushed if they want playing time. Sure it may be presure filled but they know it is what they will be facing at the college level and they better learn to deal with it. As far as the Danny Cates issue not sure what him carrying his team at Dutch Fork has to do with anything. The real question there is did he reach his full potential in high school or could he have even been better yet had he played for his Lexington club team year round? That's like saying is Joe Amon from Summerville High better off at the Bradenton residency program or at Summerville High? For goodness sake we better hope Bradenton or the National team is in some more kind of trouble).
Does this mean they don't enjoy high school ball? Certainly not - most I know will tell you they very much enjoy playing for their school. But once again - that is not the question of this thread.
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What would be interesting is to ask club coaches who don't coach HS for their opinion on the issue.
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Ultimately it comes down to the player does it not? Doesn't everyone of the top soccer players in the state play high school soccer in some manner? It looks like more and more players from our small state are representing the soccer community well. It was said earlier these same players are participating in promoting soccer in the state.
Mr. Miyagi would agree that mental health associated with playing for ones school is immeasureable. The confidence and pride are something that is difficult to observe in club soccer. Oh, and the kids are just plain having fun on the pitch.
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Notso, that's an easy one to answer, as I've heard it numerous times from numerous "club-only" coaches. For the most part, they hate it. And most of the reasons have already been mentioned.
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To me the best way to look at it is as follows
I am fairly certain that all schools in SC have courses divided into levels for example honor classes, AP courses, college credit or whatever you call it, and regular classes.
if Billy qualifies for the higher level class is it not in Billy's interest to attend said class?
So the school system recognizes that there are students and then there are students.
You do not place Billy in the same class as Bobby simply because the speed of learning is not conducive to Billy's or Bobby's development (depending on how you look at it- too fast or too slow).
So why would sport be any different? For starters Billy and Bobbby are in the same team but not of equal skill. Would the coaching be geared to the better player or the worse player? So practicing 5 days a week trying to get everyone else up to a level some have already achieved may not be best for their development but better the lower players.
In the end it depends on what you are trying to achieve...HS sports have many pros that clubs do not have and vice versa. It is all in the eye of the beholder.
So give it a rest...as someone has already stated it is a dead horse.
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So can someone shed some light as to the model in England? How do the youth there grow up in relation to club ball vs school ball etc.?
Can't speak for England, but I can for the German exchange student we had living with us.
There was no such thing as a school team, only club (they don't call it club, but I forget what they do call it).
The "club" team was almost like a mini professional league. Didn't pay them, but provided things for them (help with future "university" costs, housing, transportation,...etc)
As a side note: He absolutly loved playing high school ball. He was amazed how close knit the players were to each other. He commented he was closer to his high school team mates (that he only played with for a few months), than his German teammates that he had played with for years.
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As a side note: He absolutly loved playing high school ball. He was amazed how close knit the players were to each other. He commented he was closer to his high school team mates (that he only played with for a few months), than his German teammates that he had played with for years.
And there, IMHO, is the real beauty of it...the side of soccer that fosters passion for team and camraderie for teammates rather than just constant pressure for individual achievement.
I've got good news and bad news...
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goal
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goal
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A touch is a touch, even a bad one...IF the player is trying to learn. Kids can explore different positions and have fun and still compete. I am sure some of the 20 some matches teams have are competitive, except for those who can recruit... but that is another thread all together.
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goal
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goal
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You just HAD to bring up the "R" word, didn't you...
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corner kick
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corner kick
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Quote:
High School teams practice 5-6 days a week.
Clubs practice 2 maybe 3 times a week.
How can more touches on the ball impede someones development??
I have had this discussion a lot lately with club coaches discouraging kids from playing middle school ball. They say that the kids that leave our practices and arrive at theirs dont have the intensity that is needed. I agree that more touches is better for the kid.
The other arguement is that club kids play 37 games plus the 2 practices a week is too much for the kids on top of the school commitment. I was told that there are studies showing how physically it is bad for them.
I wonder how the Blythewood Middle girls did last year with club since that is what most of them were. Were there any extra injuries or fatigue due to them playing school and club.
im not sure about girls, they are physically different.
but i remember when i was in like 5th grade back in the homeland.
we had 4 practices a week with the academy. games on sundays.
4 breaks of 15 minutes at school, all of them were used to play futbol at the bk court with a plastic ball.
not to mention we came back from practice at 6 pm, eat, do homework then go out to the street with the boys to play some more til like 9pm, but again that is latin america, a different culture ; )
by the end of the night watching la liga and seria a goals next to grandpa, waiting for the next day to arrive so more futbol could be played hahaha
Club of the century.
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corner kick
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corner kick
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If you mean that instead of a spring school season there was just a spring club season (or fall in NC or elsewhere). Then I think the answer is obviously a yes.
However if you want to grow the sport you need to get people involved and watching the games and build a better understanding of the sport in the public. High school programs are building a fan base for a better future for the sport, hell when I was a kid (will leave the decade out) many high schools (even the big ones) did not even have soccer as a sport now most do.
I think the school programs with solid club support are still going to improve players (unless we move to the aforementioned club season twice a year). If anything I would like to see the rules set up to allow/encourage club play by schools based teams, not official school team of course but one whose coach and players could be mostly from a school if they wanted to. After all football has an officially approved spring/summer training season, really all year for top programs, yet we hamstring are players by making a hard line separation between club and school.
Yes I know there are $$$$ and other problems with this approach but I think that given a goal to achieve it some of the bright people here and around the state could come up with answers to the problems.
In the end the benefit would be to the players and the sport and of course the answer to the question would then be "Of Course Not!"
i see high school football and i get excited, not only i like and understand the american game, but if soccer ever gets that big in high school, it will be awesome, the last game between irmo and northwestern was insane, i dont think i have ever experienced anything like that in a high school game, it was simply amazing.
i have seen high school football games on espnU where they have teams from florida playing vs teams from california, i wonder how that works?
i used to watch this other reality show on mtv where kids from some high school from alabama claim to be the "best" football program in the nation, every game to them was very hard and competitive.
i dont understand how somebody cant see that picture in high school soccer.
you get an elite competition going, 15 quality games all season, not more 7-0 boring games, not more empty stadiums and top programs humilliating high school with not soccer tradition and not soccer interest.
once high school soccer goes elite, then i would have a lot more respect for american soccer.
high school ball could be very essential to take the next step, to get to the next level of the brazilians and italians.
high school soccer has the hype, fans, media. now we need quality competition, elite competition.
Club of the century.
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corner kick
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corner kick
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Quote:
As a side note: He absolutly loved playing high school ball. He was amazed how close knit the players were to each other. He commented he was closer to his high school team mates (that he only played with for a few months), than his German teammates that he had played with for years.
My son feels that way about his club team. His club team is our "soccer family". They are together practicing from June until December and in the spring still practice a little and play in several tournaments just to stay together. My son also hangs out with several teammates from different schools even on weekends when they are not playing. Most of the boys have been together for 4 or 5 years and in some cases longer. When you travel most every weekend from August to November you develop a closeness you are describing. They really hang out alot together on these trips and you can see that even though they go to 8 or 10 different high schools they still really like and respect each other.
So I guess my point is club teams can have that close knit feeling even though they don't go to school together.
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Given the system we have, the way to move soccer toward football's status in high school would (IMHO) be to encourage a training season in the fall like football has in the spring. My understanding is there a rule about school coaches and players on club teams as well as out of season practice.
I wonder how these rules compare to spring/summer training rules for football?
Do they not have a spring football Jamboree in many areas? How about fall soccer Jamboree?
Also here in the upstate they have both 7th and 8th grade football teams, while most schools have no soccer in middle school! Looks like Rock Hill schools will be moving to combined 7/8th grade team next year, but still no soccer. I think over the next few years the schools that have had middle school soccer will start to show some program improvements, going on third year for Clover and Fort Mill school Dist's. They even get to play some smaller school JV teams.
While I know the gods of HS football want no competition for facilities I would think there could be a way to find time and place for increased playing/practice for HS soccer teams.
As a final thought, I have always been told HS football is a money maker for schools. Just imagine what the profit margin for the lower overhead sport of soccer would be if they could grow the popularity of the HS game. Not to mention that the fields would be generating revenue in spring and fall!
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Coach
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Coach
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Chief,
Just to make the speculation concrete, here are the rules straight from the SCHSL on practices in and out of seasons:
DEFINED SPORTS SEASONS
The following terms will be used and will apply to all sports:
IN-SEASON
Begins first day of legal practice and ends with elimination from state play-off competition. Organized
practice is left to the discretion of each school.
OUT-OF-SEASON
Strength and conditioning programs will not be affected by the limitation on practice seasons.
Conditioning programs are not to include agility drills that enhance specific skills for a given sport, nor
may equipment for any sport be used. Agility drills appropriate for all sports will be acceptable.
Practice and weight training must be open to all students. These sessions cannot be mandatory for any
student.
Any student participating in an illegal practice will be declared ineligible for that sport season. Any
school allowing an illegal practice will be subject to League discipline to include the placing of the sport
on probation.
B-6
1. Open-Season/Open Facility (2008-2009 School Year)
a. June 1 - July 25, 2009 for Fall sports. (July 26-29, 2009 is Closed Season)
b. June 1 - July 31, 2009 for Winter and Spring sports.
2. Open-Season/Open Facility (2009-2010 School Year)
a. June 1 - July 24, 2010 for Fall sports. (July 26-31, 2010 is Closed Season)
b. June 1 - July 31, 2010 for Winter and Spring sports
** See note on Page B-6
NOTE: Ten days of school against school competition are permitted
June 1 - July 24, 2010. Participation at team camps and other outside organizations is
included in these 10 days. No school will be permitted to attend or participate in team
camps between July 25, 2010 and In-Season.
School facilities will be open to all students and coaches who may be involved with the planning and
monitoring of activities, including organized practice, during these time periods.
Participation cannot be mandatory for any student.
CLOSED SEASON
Any time except In-Season and the Open Season/Open Facility dates listed above. During closed
seasons, school facilities cannot be used for anything except conditioning and weight training.
OTHER REGULATIONS
a. Activities that take place during the school day are local matters and are not affected by
these regulations. However, any activity involving prospective athletes during the school day
must be open to all students.
b. School facilities may not be used after school hours during closed season by students of a
school except if they are members of an outside team clearly sponsored by an outside
agency. If an outside team uses school facilities during a closed season, no coach
(including volunteer coaches) from that school or its feeder school may be associated with
that outside team. Coaching outside teams during a closed season is permissible provided
school facilities, including those of feeder schools, are not used and the 75% rule is not
violated. (Refer to A-29 for details on the 75% rule.) Beginning March 25, a coach may
coach an outside team and use school facilities.
c. Outdoor facilities normally available to the public will not be restricted by these regulations on
non school days. In other words, if it is the normal practice of the school to allow the general
public to use these facilities on the weekends, there will be no violation if more than three
students are present, provided there is no coach present, and there is no attempt to facilitate
practice.
d. A coach may accompany prospective team members to a camp or clinic during a closed
season, but may not be involved with teaching skills to his or her own players.
e. Organized practice is defined as the gathering of a coach(es) and more than the number of
student-athletes (per sport program) listed on the chart below for the purpose of teaching
sport specific skills. It also includes the use of school facilities by more student-athletes (per
sport program) than those listed on the chart below:
Volleyball (4)
Tennis (3)
Cross County (3)
Golf (3)
Football (8)
Swim (3)
Competitive Cheer (15)
Wrestling (11)
Basketball (3)
Lacrosse-Girls (9)
Lacrosse-Boys (7)
Baseball (7)
Softball (7)
Soccer (8)
Track & Field (3)
Now we come to those magic SCSHL words--"EXCEPT FOR FOOTBALL..."
FOOTBALL
5. Practice Information:
a. A school shall not permit contact practice in pads or otherwise between its last game and
August 4. Pads include padding of any kind on the shoulders, hips or thighs.
NOTE: Schools are permitted 10 days of practice between the last 30 school days and the
first two weeks after the closing of school.
 The first three (3) days of spring practice (and the first three days of fall practice)
will be in helmets only.
 During the first three (3) days of “helmets only” practices, sleds and ground
dummies may be used.
 No hand shields, arm shields, and/or stand up dummies of any kind may be used
during the first three (3) days of spring or fall (pre-season) practice.
 During any practice(s) beyond the first 3 days of spring practice, a coach may
equip his players in any combination of pads that he prefers. (Schools are not
required to be in helmets only or in full pads only; any combination may be used.)
During this time, seven (7) days, the use of all football equipment is permitted.
 If a middle school holds spring practice on the same dates that the high school
holds spring practice, it will count as the same practice for the high school. If the
middle school holds spring practice on dates other than those of the high school,
those dates will count toward the 10 allowed dates for the high school.
 Middle school students may NOT take part in the high school practices, if players
are wearing any equipment other than helmets. If players are equipped with more
than helmets, middle school athletes must hold their practices apart from the high
school. (They could be on the same field, but away from the high school practices.)
 Rising 9th graders, (8th graders), are NOT 9th graders until school is out for the year,
thus they may NOT take part in contact drills of the high school.
 Schools MAY NOT charge admission for a spring practice (game)
So, under SCHSL rules, football may have ten days of off-season practice (Spring) but soccer may not have off-season practice (fall).
Also, in the first section, see:
OTHER REGULATIONS
a. Activities that take place during the school day are local matters and are not affected by
these regulations. However, any activity involving prospective athletes during the school day
must be open to all students.
Which means, the "weightlifting" classes for football (which are open to other athletes to apply for) can be used for fall practice and since they are part of the regular school day are not restricted by SCHSL practice rules.
I've got good news and bad news...
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corner kick
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corner kick
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Here's an idea, have the marching band play at half-time of soccer games and have cheerleaders too. God knows that the band/cheerleader parents could care less about the game. They come to see their kids. Add 100 - 125 band and 10 - 20 cheerleaders and muliply by 2 (2 parents). That would be between 200 - 250 more people at every soccer game. Multiply that by the amount of home soccer games in a year. soccer would make alot of money seeing as how the coaches as how the coaches don't make $100,000/year. Can't do that though, it would hurt football. Also, why not make lacrosse a fall sport?? There is only football.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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Goal
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Goal
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Quote:
Here's an idea, have the marching band play at half-time of soccer games and have cheerleaders too. God knows that the band/cheerleader parents could care less about the game. They come to see their kids. Add 100 - 125 band and 10 - 20 cheerleaders and muliply by 2 (2 parents). That would be between 200 - 250 more people at every soccer game. Multiply that by the amount of home soccer games in a year. soccer would make alot of money seeing as how the coaches as how the coaches don't make $100,000/year. Can't do that though, it would hurt football. Also, why not make lacrosse a fall sport?? There is only football.
I know of a coach that asked for the cheerleaders to come and cheer at a soccer match. The response from the cheerleading coach: "Our season is long enough"
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Perhaps the most extensive and informational post I have seen!
So there is a bias in the system for football! What can be done to fix the problem? I understand the limiting contact and working up after three days for the more physically violent sport but surely there could be some type of accommodation made for soccer.
The rules for players and coaches practicing do seem a little confusing. I remember a few year ago some one tried to torpedo NWHS via the coach and school grounds rule because Discoveries was using school facilities for club practice. I think it ended up costing someone a fine.
Like the band idea though, could split concession between boosters (band/athletic). They could play after goals, home team scores only, of course!
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corner kick
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corner kick
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And I'm sure the band will come up with a reason too. God forbid they have to coach the WHOLE year!!! Seems like a way to make money without spending any.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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You left out the boy/girl friend math which means many more kids coming to see their friends.
Also need to be smarter about scheduling, make the regional games be on Friday night when ever possible as these are the big turn out games! Fort Mill and North Western play on Thurs and Tues nights this year! Arguably this best game in their region and most students will have school the next day, which for some means no game! Yes I know scheduling is like trying to herd cats but as they say on ESPN Com-on Man!
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Corner Kick
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goal
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Even worse than all of this, have enough kids to make a Varsity, Jv and c team, but not have the backing of the school to do so...
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Quote:
Even worse than all of this, have enough kids to make a Varsity, Jv and c team, but not have the backing of the school to do so...
  That IS bad.
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 357 |
Quote:
Given the system we have, the way to move soccer toward football's status in high school would (IMHO) be to encourage a training season in the fall like football has in the spring. My understanding is there a rule about school coaches and players on club teams as well as out of season practice.
I wonder how these rules compare to spring/summer training rules for football?
Do they not have a spring football Jamboree in many areas? How about fall soccer Jamboree?
Also here in the upstate they have both 7th and 8th grade football teams, while most schools have no soccer in middle school! Looks like Rock Hill schools will be moving to combined 7/8th grade team next year, but still no soccer. I think over the next few years the schools that have had middle school soccer will start to show some program improvements, going on third year for Clover and Fort Mill school Dist's. They even get to play some smaller school JV teams.
While I know the gods of HS football want no competition for facilities I would think there could be a way to find time and place for increased playing/practice for HS soccer teams.
As a final thought, I have always been told HS football is a money maker for schools. Just imagine what the profit margin for the lower overhead sport of soccer would be if they could grow the popularity of the HS game. Not to mention that the fields would be generating revenue in spring and fall!
im not sure how accurate this is, i do not have much time but i will give a little insight on this.
they have a superbowl game every year, and the superbowl is a baby compared to the world cup final.
i guess we can compare the super bowl to the european champions league final. im sure the european champions league final is pound by pound the big winner in term of ratings.
now, dont get me wrong, american football is a monster when it comes to profit. we are talking of a 30 minutes game with about 3 hours of commericials, this is huge in term of profitability.
i can see the superbowl making more money than the champions league final, althought i may be wrong.
soccer would slap any other sport in terms of rating, the sport is huge everywhere but the usa, but is rapidly increasing, espn spent who knows how much money to get the world cup rights. manchester united and liverpool are owned by americans.
that being said.
not only high school soccer should go elite.
middle school soccer should be borned and it needs to be created with an elite system too.
soccer could learn a lot from american sports, sp football.
if we cannot get cheerleaders to soccer, well lets get the dance team, hot chicks always help.
the band is not a bad idea also, the point is the get people involved.
pep rallies?
you said the magic word and nobody ever descriminates that word. money, soccer could be just as huge or bigger than football in the long term when it comes to profit.
you just have to make sure you follow the same path as american football, having a good game but making money at the same time (commercials and all that) and this is somethign most futbol nations failed to do. the game is great but they have little ideas of how to make profit out of the game. something americans know by heart ; )
i have to go to class.
peace
Club of the century.
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Goal Kick
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Goal Kick
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Alma,
Who are you? What is your background? Did you play HS soccer? If so, where?
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corner kick
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corner kick
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im using my phone right now, pm me, ill be happy to answer any question.
Club of the century.
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Goal
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Goal
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For some youth players I believe playing on multiple teams, including high school, during the year provides opportunities for development not realized by playing just club. I have a daughter who plays as a starter for a premier team where she plays exclusively as an outside defender. She looks forward to high school soccer where she plays midfield and forward. She says high school helps her develop attacking skills that help her as a defender in club. While high school doesn't offer the same overall level of team competition she gets in club, she usually matches up against other top club players on the high school fields. She says it puts pressure on her foot skills. While I know she wouldn't be the player she is without her club experience, I believe the opportunity to play multiple positions as a member of club, high school and ODP teams has helped her development overall.
And... most of the D1 inquiries she has received so far are based on an interest in her play at midfield/forward in high school rather than as a defender in club.
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