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hat-trick
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"We really need to revise the whole taxation structure in SC to help prevent these drastic measures from repeating themselves in the future. I asked many questions hypothetically here to get you thinking. What I am really saying is we need to advocate for education, tax structure (a total re-write), "
I totally agree. It has never ceased to amaze me that in a state that prides itself on conservatism and an anti-Washington distrust of government.....things like what they have done with school funding could happen.
If you really believe in less government...and if you really believe in the idea that the best government is local government and that the further away you get from "the people", the less government will reflect the will of the people...then you should be appalled at whats happened with school funding.
But in SC.....we are not really conservative and we don't really believe in less government or a government that stays out of the lives of citizens. We don't want WASHINGTON interfering with South Carolina....but its perfectly ok for Columbia to interfere with York COunty or Spartanburg COunty or Horry County. This state isn't about less government.....its about MY government, not yours. Its a control factor......period.
The state should mandate a basic level of expectation for education. If an area chooses to prioritize and invest further in eduction.....that is our right if we live here and are willing and able to pay for it. By taking away local funding of schools the state has centralized control.
I believe that local schools are best funded locally. If the locale cannot fund sufficiently to meet min state standards, the state should assist. And if my tax dollars in York County (income or sales) go to help out a poor school district elsewhere in SC....I'm ok with that. As a South Carolinian I believe that to be part of my responsibility.
But if we want great schools here then I'm ok with paying property taxes on my home that stay here in my district.
Fact.....I lived for a couple of years in Connecticut and my wife and I bought our first home there in 1989, a condo that was about 1200 sq feet. I now live in a 3000 sq foot modern, brick home. In 2010 my property taxes are about 40% lower than what we paid CT back in 1989. And before someone makes a comment about CT property taxes...we had no state income tax at the time.
Property taxes should fund local services (like schools). To co-mingle local money with state money is like putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.
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Well stated. Do you want to head up our version of the TRAC committee? We can call it SCAT- Soccer Community's Alignment of Taxation. No offense to you intended, I just liked the acronym and its other meaning. Since you will be in charge, you can rename it!
Unfortunately, in SC (like many other places) there are the haves and the have nots with respect to school funding. Historically, most of our districts (and the really the counties in which they reside) were based on the agrarian model and then the mills. As our way of life "evolved", the economics changed. While some counties have shifted to tourism or other fields, many of our counties are still considered agrarian or they are bedroom communities of larger cities. These latter two lack the tax base as it is currently structured to adequately fund schools on a local level. So the Yorks will have to be responsible citizens of SC and help others. The question then begs at what level? I know Beaufort and Greenville constantly bemoan the fact because they too have a great tax base.
I am not sure of how much local control we need to give everyone. I think of the mess with the politics in Fairfield right now or the previous embezzlement and colluding in other counties as barriers to providing total local control. There are some services/programs which local districts would immediately cut. Of course we know our Lt. Governor's favorite program would be one of the first to go if he were in charge locally. There just needs to be some checks to balance the local powers at times.
So, the SCAT committee is in charge of offering some solutions or at least ideas!
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Big Daddy,
I too have kids in HS Soccer, but I also have some playing club. I would agree HS is not free by any means. Recreational soccer is fairly inexpensive, but club soccer is a whole different level. So, if the local Y offered soccer at $70 or so and they usually have "Scholarships" for those in need, this would be a viable option for MS at the starter level of soccer. However, if those same kids moved up to Classic, those fees start to multiply. Throw in some challenge and premier paired with ODP, camps, etc and it really can be burdensome.
But on this level, an individual family can choose to participate or not.
The question is what about at the MS level? The next question will be what about the JV level? We know the big sports with lots of fans drive the athletics choices. As soccer supporters we are often on the short end of that stick. I see the culture slowly (sloth-like) changing as more and more families play soccer, but it is still a game dominated by the revenue sports.
I go to a soccer complex on the weekend and there are easily hundreds of people watching, cheering, and supporting soccer. I go to a high school game and there are less than 100- really 50 for girls soccer or JV soccer. We have to find a way to increase support for soccer.
Your point about cutting the peripherally relevant programs is interesting. For too long we have depended on schools to be the main vehicle to enact cultural change. It has become too much of a Walmart because that is what was mandated and expected. I think about the free lunch/breakfast programs, the nurses care, the social services attached to schools, the parenting programs, the language support programs, and on and on it goes. If we remove all of this to include sports from our schools, who will step in to provide these services in the local community?
In these dire financial times, we may have to really answer that question....
Last edited by dawgknows; 03/16/10 03:47 PM.
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hat-trick
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Quote:
Well stated. Do you want to head up our version of the TRAC committee? We can call it SCAT- Soccer Community's Alignment of Taxation. No offense to you intended, I just liked the acronym and its other meaning. Since you will be in charge, you can rename it!
Unfortunately, in SC (like many other places) there are the haves and the have nots with respect to school funding. Historically, most of our districts (and the really the counties in which they reside) were based on the agrarian model and then the mills. As our way of life "evolved", the economics changed. While some counties have shifted to tourism or other fields, many of our counties are still considered agrarian or they are bedroom communities of larger cities. These latter two lack the tax base as it is currently structured to adequately fund schools on a local level. So the Yorks will have to be responsible citizens of SC and help others. The question then begs at what level? I know Beaufort and Greenville constantly bemoan the fact because they too have a great tax base.
I am not sure of how much local control we need to give everyone. I think of the mess with the politics in Fairfield right now or the previous embezzlement and colluding in other counties as barriers to providing total local control. There are some services/programs which local districts would immediately cut. Of course we know our Lt. Governor's favorite program would be one of the first to go if he were in charge locally. There just needs to be some checks to balance the local powers at times.
So, the SCAT committee is in charge of offering some solutions or at least ideas!
Well named!!! I wouldn't changed a thing!!!
There will always be corruption but you can't use that as an argument for structurally denying power where it belongs...locally!!! Guaranteed Columbia is more corrupt (speaking of state government) than local government. Would we like it......if Uncle Sam came around sniffing at us and said, hmmm....we'd love to give SC more autonomy but we don't trust you to make good decisions? Heck no, how ridiculous is that?
And my point wasn't about we in York County not helping poorer school districts elsewhere in the state. We should!! My point was......we here in York County should have the right to tax and fund local services like education AS WE SEE FIT, so long as it meets the state mandated minimum. I live in Fort Mill.......and we have had a BOOM influx of people crossing the border from Charlotte to live here BECAUSE of our schools. The quality of our schools is an economic drawing card that is an indisputable fact.
Reversing course on education will absolutely put a chokehold on our ability to continue to grow and prosper. If someone elsewhere thinks we're foolish......fine. But let us be foolish in our own way, so that the YC can continue to be a desirable alternative to Charlotte to live and work. We see quality schools and a quality education as a prerequisite.
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hat-trick
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hat-trick
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Quote:
Big Daddy,
I too have kids in HS Soccer, but I also have some playing club. I would agree HS is not free by any means. Recreational soccer is fairly inexpensive, but club soccer is a whole different level. So, if the local Y offered soccer at $70 or so and they usually have "Scholarships" for those in need, this would be a viable option for MS at the starter level of soccer. However, if those same kids moved up to Classic, those fees start to multiply. Throw in some challenge and premier paired with ODP, camps, etc and it really can be burdensome.
But on this level, an individual family can choose to participate or not.
The question is what about at the MS level? The next question will be what about the JV level? We know the big sports with lots of fans drive the athletics choices. As soccer supporters we are often on the short end of that stick. I see the culture slowly (sloth-like) changing as more and more families play soccer, but it is still a game dominated by the revenue sports.
I go to a soccer complex on the weekend and there are easily hundreds of people watching, cheering, and supporting soccer. I go to a high school game and there are less than 100- really 50 for girls soccer or JV soccer. We have to find a way to increase support for soccer.
Your point about cutting the peripherally relevant programs is interesting. For too long we have depended on schools to be the main vehicle to enact cultural change. It has become too much of a Walmart because that is what was mandated and expected. I think about the free lunch/breakfast programs, the nurses care, the social services attached to schools, the parenting programs, the language support programs, and on and on it goes. If we remove all of this to include sports from our schools, who will step in to provide these services in the local community?
In these dire financial times, we may have to really answer that question....
Good discourse.....tho perhaps not totally related to JV soccer.
Perhaps its merely my value system or sense of priorities...but I wouldn't equate school sports with ESL or subsidized breakfasts/lunches or special academic programs for those who fall outside of the mainsteam (either above or below).
A kid who hasn't eaten won't learn nearly as well as a kid who has. A kid with a poor command of English won't learn as well as a kid that understands the teacher. A kid with dyslexia.....
These are directly related to learning and education.....as opposed to football. Friday night lights are a big part of who we are culturally, as are experiences like the prom. But neither have much to do with education.
In terms of soccer attendance...not sure I get your point.
Yes, if you go to Ramblewood or BB&T or MESA on a Saturday afternoon there are a buttload of people there. But there are also 88 games going on. My experience is that MORE people go to HS games than do club games, where it really is only family for the most part.
The trick to me is to make what is known as Classic 2 in SC much closer to rec in cost, maybe $100 a kid. Basic uniform, use of public fields, volunteer coaches. That way kids who want to play....can. Make it year round....
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Hurst,
Good luck to the Fort Mill community as they try to retain MS sports! IM me... I will be more than glad to donate to the cause.
Scott
Last edited by ScottW; 03/24/10 02:31 AM.
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Wonder how many middle school soccer teams there are in the state?
I guess we could include any JV that is almost all 7th/8th graders.
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They have my vote and full support! Surprised school board didn't off that up before just cutting away!
Rick Fielden
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Last year I spoke in front of the board at a meeting maybe this year we will have to do more than talk.
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