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Why is HS soccer the only sport with such lopsided scores ? Each school regardless of size and location seems to be able to field competitive teams in every sport except soccer, why?
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Maybe to many different levels of play?
Also I see soccer presented as " come out and have some fun"
so I see kids playing soccer in school that don't play at all outside of school..Do you think that would wash in football,basketball or baseball? I don't think so.
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You have pockets of our state that could care less about soccer and have no club to support their HS program. Clubs have a direct effect on HS soccer programs.
When schools start a HS program and compete in a region with established programs, you will always have lopsided scores. I'm sure that there are many people that will post a lengthy explanation on the issue but, this is just a very short version.
It is the south and football is king as well.
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Maybe it's just the sport that you're most familiar. I don't know, but I saw a HS softball score of 31-0 two weeks ago -- in five innings!
How about the Byrnes football scores this year?
43-7
65-14
52-6
85-8
60-7
49-6
42-9
72-27
53-0
Pretty lopsided to me.
Timberland girls basketball:
76-32
73-27
73-33
Again, pretty lopsided to me.
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IMO it is how the school supports particular sports that allow that sport to flourish. Our wrestling team was not that good, got a great coach, then two years later they win the region. Soccer at different places gets support at other places it does not. Most all places support Football, Baseball, and Basketball.
Support can just be a coach, who really knows what he or she is doing... in high school that is almost enough. And for really great programs, there is sub teams to support the upper teams. Spartanburg County has 7th and 8th grade football, wonder why it does better than Greenville. Greenville has 7th and 8th grader soccer not football. Mauldin, Riverside... enough said.
I had a track coach who did a wonderful job with very little talent except for what he developed... he won so many track and CC events and states, they named the football stadium after him. High School is a coaches game.
That is not to say the club does not matter, as a matter of fact, the great coach works with them in season, and gets them ready out of season however and whenever possible... for soccer that is a club.
Emerald for example... basically the girls won their region over and over. Now the coach is gone, because the AD wants to give a football coach an extra check. Our program almost went that way.
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Quote:
You have pockets of our state that could care less about soccer and have no club to support their HS program. Clubs have a direct effect on HS soccer programs.
When schools start a HS program and compete in a region with established programs, you will always have lopsided scores. I'm sure that there are many people that will post a lengthy explanation on the issue but, this is just a very short version.
It is the south and football is king as well.
Captain Obvious everyone! Next thread this is repeated mumble!
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I would say thats the biggest reason. Like Notsofastfriend said, you have schools that don't really care. You may have players that really want to play and win but the schools don't take the time to find a good coach. They just hire an asst football coach to basically drive them to the game and stand. The first school that I coached at hired me while I was in college because their AD wanted to have a successful program and was tired of winless seasons. Schools could find college players that know the game and can train athletes to be competitive. Go out and talk the football and bball players into playing. Athletes that are that good catch on to the game quickly.
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I think it boils down to soccer being the most challenging sport to learn.
You can take a 300 pound HS senior who has never played a single down in football and turn him into a blue chip recruit in one season. Same can be said for a 7 footer in basketball. Can anyone on this forum name a single player who started playing soccer in HS and was a all-state selection in 3A, or 4-A.
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and you can get a guy who is ultra fast to play as a forward in soccer... sweet there are always athletes who can transcend a sport by a gift of speed, height or size... But that is not why one team thumps another one in soccer. It is about the "program".
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If you think Byrnes wins because of 300 pound people just living in Duncan, you are flat foulish. They practice and condition those kids year round. They were having a kicking clinic the last time I was over there. Dist 5 is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the PROGRAM!
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and you can get a guy who is ultra fast to play as a forward in soccer...
And therein lies the problem with soccer in America!
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I have to agree with ZEN..We play teams that the players don't know when they are suppose to throw the ball or when to kick it..God bless em for trying but there's no soccer going on there..There are high school coaches that coach club ball but I would say most don't..We see the same teams competing each year for titles..Very few surprises..To me it's about how much the school is going to support the program and is that program supported by a soccer club where kids can play year round..Those are two big factors in a programs success.
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If you think Byrnes wins because of 300 pound people just living in Duncan, you are flat foulish. They practice and condition those kids year round. They were having a kicking clinic the last time I was over there. Dist 5 is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the PROGRAM!
cough recruiting cough
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If you think Byrnes wins because of 300 pound people just living in Duncan, you are flat foulish. They practice and condition those kids year round. They were having a kicking clinic the last time I was over there. Dist 5 is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the PROGRAM!
cough recruiting cough
Why doesn't the Byrnes soccer team do the same thing? 
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and you can get a guy who is ultra fast to play as a forward in soccer... sweet there are always athletes who can transcend a sport by a gift of speed, height or size... But that is not why one team thumps another one in soccer. It is about the "program".
Name one ultra fast guy who could play for Irmo, Northwestern, Wando just cause he is ultra fast. And IMHO it's the players first then the program. The coaches at Irmo and Northwestern are blessed to have the talent they have. How would those coaches do at the lesser programs? see it's the players that make a program. And yes they are great HS coaches.
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Well, the high school I support in Columbia has been beaten continuously by double digits in softball. Last time I looked I saw where the Blue Devils had surrendered 30+ runs in one game and 20+ in another. Not to mention our football "prowess", but routs are common in District One (and not for R1 teams).
50th for a reason!
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and you can get a guy who is ultra fast to play as a forward in soccer...
And therein lies the problem with soccer in America!
I can't think of a single girl in SC HS soccer that is ultra fast/track star speed that is a quality soccer player. Can anyone name a player that fits the ultra fast track speed player that is a quality soccer player with a good skill set.
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If the players make the programs..I guess the credit goes to the clubs they play for? I have to agree that some of the more successful coaches would struggle at other schools..Kids playing soccer year round is a big plus in high school play
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I submit Alexa Gainey, West Florence outside mid, USC commit.
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Good club soccer equals good high school soccer. Many programs are not fed through middle school or JV programs but club. Look at the club influence on any SC high school soccer team and it will normally correlate what level of success it's having. Quality coaches certainly support that situation. Schools that make a committment to hiring quality people normally do well in all sports i.e. Dorman. But even the best coach can't make horseradish out of horse s*%t!
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You need to ask the AD that! But that is the question.
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. But even the best coach can't make horseradish out of horse s*%t!
hahahaahahhaha...classic line and agreed
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Quote:
Good club soccer equals good high school soccer. Many programs are not fed through middle school or JV programs but club. Look at the club influence on any SC high school soccer team and it will normally correlate what level of success it's having. Quality coaches certainly support that situation. Schools that make a committment to hiring quality people normally do well in all sports i.e. Dorman. But even the best coach can't make horseradish out of horse s*%t!
My biggest point was simple. A good soccer coach matters. If you take a wide reciever coach from the football team, and make them a soccer coach to get them an extra few grand then... you get what you get. That does happen to soccer. Now how many times do you suppose it happens the other way? NONE!!!
Soccer is a red headed step child to most other sports, at the average school anyway. The AD being the football coach should not be allowed, conflict of interest for the overall set of programs.
And obviously the staked teams where everyone goes to club, versus the areas that do not have a club near by... creates some of these gaps.
The correlation of year round participation holds for all sports, not just soccer.
Since you put Dorman out there, lets test the 7th and 8th grade influence, by reviewing the number of times Mauldin went to the Championship game versus Dorman. Hands down that orange color wins. Not to say Dorman is not good most all the time and very good this year. Do not bash me for making the comparison... not Dorman hating, or anything, just making a point.
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My point was a good coach matters also...in any sport. You also need the players and club support to do well in hs soccer. Dorman wasn't used as a soccer model but an athletic one. Their school administration and AD have made a conscious effort to hire qualified people to coach all their teams. As a result all are very competitive. More schools should follow the model. But bring a top coach to Podunk HS with no support system....not going to be horseradish!
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Our points are mostly the same then.
Last edited by ZEN MASTER; 04/19/10 06:43 PM.
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Zen, I guess then in your eyes that State Championship Dorman won in 2005 / 06 doesnt count for much!
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The common denominator why there are so many lopsided scores in high school soccer is $$$$. The middle to wealthy hs are blowing the less financial fortunate hs out. The reason is simple. The less fortunate inter city or low income hs school kid might play ymca soccer or rec soccer, but when their old enough to play club they can't afford it. Clubs are only interested in families that can afford the annual fees. When was the last time you saw an inter city kid on a Club team.(Never) This is one reason soccer will never overtake the 3 major sports in the US. The 3 major sports let everyone participate regardless of income. Many of us including myself might not be watching my daughter play premier soccer if the less fortunate were able to participate. Example: There more paying fans watching Dorman play Byrnes in a HS football game than watching the Womens D1 Soccer National Championship game. When i see 80,000 fans watching Alabama playing Auburn in soccer on a Saturday afternoon maybe you can change my mind.
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Not the only sport. I coached basketball and volleyball along with soccer and lopsided scores were not absent there.
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A someone who has coached at several different sports soccer isn't the only one with blowouts, you just notice more because that's what your tuned into, lots of games reported here. In the other sports the scores are generally reported to the paper for public consumption and as a coach you're reluctant to call the paper and publish a blowout.
Also I will say the clubs in the area are doing a good job trying to help poorer kids get involved by covering fees. However its the "hidden costs" that keep poorer kids from plying and clubs really can't do much about, things like rides to practice or across state lines for weekend matches. Many of the poorer kids have no rides and therefore can't play.
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I think it boils down to soccer being the most challenging sport to learn.
You can take a 300 pound HS senior who has never played a single down in football and turn him into a blue chip recruit in one season. Same can be said for a 7 footer in basketball. Can anyone on this forum name a single player who started playing soccer in HS and was a all-state selection in 3A, or 4-A.
Cobi Jones. 
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
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celtic said it best. "Location, location, location".
If you are in an affluent community with competitive clubs in the area, you are going to succeed. These programs generally hire good coaches because they are "avaialble". Active/involved soccer parents would not stand for the wide receivers coach coaching the varsity high school soccer team.
When these schools play rural schools that don't have the same resources.......you get 13-0.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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I think it boils down to soccer being the most challenging sport to learn.
You can take a 300 pound HS senior who has never played a single down in football and turn him into a blue chip recruit in one season. Same can be said for a 7 footer in basketball. Can anyone on this forum name a single player who started playing soccer in HS and was a all-state selection in 3A, or 4-A.
Cobi Jones.
Cobi developed his soccer skills in the San Fernando Valley recreation program as a youth in the 80's, and remember that was before club soccer exploded onto the scene.
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My son played youth football and basketball. When we played the teams from the inter city we would get our doors blown off.
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My son played youth football and basketball. When we played the teams from the inter city we would get our doors blown off.
I think its ironic to mention inner-city basketball. I wonder what the parents there spend on ODP, Team Fees, Weekend tournaments, and I also wonder what the DOC's and Trainers make.
How can they possibly expect to ever have their child make a decent college or professional team without all those things?
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celtic said it best. "Location, location, location".
If you are in an affluent community with competitive clubs in the area, you are going to succeed. These programs generally hire good coaches because they are "avaialble". Active/involved soccer parents would not stand for the wide receivers coach coaching the varsity high school soccer team.
When these schools play rural schools that don't have the same resources.......you get 13-0.
In America, yes...Brazil...no
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My son played youth football and basketball. When we played the teams from the inter city we would get our doors blown off.
Were the same kids blowing your sons doors off in the classroom as well? I bet your son has a bit more balance.
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My son played youth football and basketball. When we played the teams from the inter city we would get our doors blown off.
I think its ironic to mention inner-city basketball. I wonder what the parents there spend on ODP, Team Fees, Weekend tournaments, and I also wonder what the DOC's and Trainers make.
How can they possibly expect to ever have their child make a decent college or professional team without all those things?
Forget about how much they spend on ODP, how much time do they spend raising there child. Everyone loves to talk about all the money people spend on soccer, I like to think about all the time we get to spend with our child during the journey. hard to put a price on it.
I also think a kid playing club soccer has a far better chance of going to college and playing a sport than your basic inner city athlete. Just my opinion.
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My son played youth football and basketball. When we played the teams from the inter city we would get our doors blown off.
I think its ironic to mention inner-city basketball. I wonder what the parents there spend on ODP, Team Fees, Weekend tournaments, and I also wonder what the DOC's and Trainers make.
How can they possibly expect to ever have their child make a decent college or professional team without all those things?
Forget about how much they spend on ODP, how much time do they spend raising there child. Everyone loves to talk about all the money people spend on soccer, I like to think about all the time we get to spend with our child during the journey. hard to put a price on it.
I also think a kid playing club soccer has a far better chance of going to college and playing a sport than your basic inner city athlete. Just my opinion.
No, I don't want to forget about the money......
I was always curious how the money works in AAU Basketball. Can somebody in the know comment on this? Sonny Vacarro (sp?) pulls in big bucks form Adidas or Nike. I don't think we have a "national guy" like this in youth soccer. How do the inner-city kids afford to travel coast-to-coast? Who's the "sugar daddy"? Who is paying the tourney entry fees, the travel, the coaches? For the lower-level kid, I'm sure it's mom and dad. What's going on at the highest level?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Hurst:
How much in common do you think a parent of a top soccer club player has with a parent of a top AAU basketball player.
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I think this thread was about "Why is HS soccer the only sport with such lopsided scores" It's simple the wealthy HS athletes are good at country club sports. golf, soccer, tennis,etc.(Baseball could be an exception) The middle class to wealthy class geographical areas are targeted by soccer clubs. Ask an existing soccer club to open a facility in Union County or the Berea area and you'll get some funny looks.
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I think this thread was about "Why is HS soccer the only sport with such lopsided scores" It's simple the wealthy HS athletes are good at country club sports. golf, soccer, tennis,etc.(Baseball could be an exception) The middle class to wealthy class geographical areas are targeted by soccer clubs. Ask an existing soccer club to open a facility in Union County or the Berea area and you'll get some funny looks.
I think it still goes back to soccer being the most difficult sport to excel in.
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most difficult or most demanding. ever played golf
That there is an RV Clark......
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Hurst:
How much in common do you think a parent of a top soccer club player has with a parent of a top AAU basketball player.
Economically? In most cases very, very little. That's why I want to know where the money is coming from.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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The query of this thread is a fallacy. Take a look at the high school league website "Palmetto's Finest" for 2009-10 playoff scores which would be a small sampling. For example: Football Byrnes v White Knoll 58-0 Northwestern v So. Florence 53-0 Greenville v W. Oak 59-0 Chesterfield v Lewisville 70-0!!!! and how about Wrestling: Hillcrest v TL Hanna 73-0 Ft. Mill v Ridgeview 72-6 Dorman v Greenview 75-3 and many 30 to 50 point spreads in basketball (girls particularly) And I don't buy the rich v poor argument. If you took the best athletes from the "rural" or "poor" schools and exposed them to soccer as a desirable sport at a young age and if they played the game from a young age then maybe they would become competitive high school players. They often become very competitive football or basketball players don't they? Do you think the best players in the world were "rich" and that's how they became great soccer players? Many played in the streets to begin their skill sets. When I go to a game in a rural area and see that they have a soccer team I'm ecstatic! Who would have ever thought that soccer would be happening in rural SOUTH CAROLINA! It doesn't matter the score, it's the greatest!
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Marta, you're right on.. If the kids in rural, inter city areas were given the chance to train 8 years in soccer in SC the hs soccer landscape would be a whole lot different. The level of quality play would double maybe triple. This is why the sport of soccer will never hit the high level fan base that other high school sports have because soccer is for the wealthy, not everyone can participate. The player pool in soccer is extremely small compared to the big 3 sports.
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Uncle Buck you have missed my point. Wealth has nothing to do with it. Exposure has everything to do with it. How many rural, inner city kids do you think got a soccer ball under their Christmas tree when they were growing up? If they've never seen soccer, don't understand it and their parents don't like it, those kids are never going to play. It isn't about money. Football, basketball & baseball are ingrained in American culture. So far, no amount of money is changing that. Money doesn't matter in European, South American or third world countries. EVERYBODY (except GIRLS) plays soccer! EVERYBODY watches soccer. Kids of all income levels play starting at a young age.
Kudos to the kids stepping out and playing soccer in rural and inner city areas where the BIG THREE are KING. Maybe their parents will start to like it and the best athletes will start to play when they're young. I'm not talking about training I'm talking about playing and enjoying the game. When that happens across the country change is acoming....
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Last night ... AC Flora 20-0 Lower Richland!!! Same district and not that far apart!
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Well Marta then i disagree with you. The top hs girl soccer teams in sc have girls that have been playing club soccer for years. Our monthly club fees (training, travel,etc) are between $500-$1000 per month. You can't tell me that money has nothing to do with it. Your way off.
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Maybe their parents will start to like it and the best athletes will start to play when they're young. I'm not talking about training I'm talking about playing and enjoying the game. When that happens across the country change is acoming....
I couldn't agree more. I grew up playing the big 3 sports(actually wrestling over basketball). I had never even watched a soccer match until my daughter started playing YMCA soccer at age 6. Eight years later it is my favorite sport and I don't go a day without watching it at some level. Unlike NASCAR, we don't have any big wrecks in soccer so its going to take some time to penetrate the more rural areas. Actually, I guess I have seen some pretty big wrecks on the high school stage. Their was a two car collision in the Mauldin/Dorman match up last night that almost sent them to the garage. These girls are tough.
Uncle Buck, I would agree that in the current climate money plays a large factor in the disparity among teams, but the only way we can eliminate that is to continue to grow the sport. If it can become commonplace everywhere, there will be good teams everywhere.
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Some scores from Byrnes' football team the past three years:
2009
43-7
65-14
52-6
85-8
60-7
49-6
42-9
72-27
53-0
58-0 playoffs
69-28 playoffs
51-16 playoffs
2008
45-20
63-0
38-0
42-14
38-12
39-3
48-7
70-27
42-6
34-0 playoffs
48-7 playoffs
2007
55-28
45-7
63-9
38-20
28-12
49-14
62-0
56-14 playoffs
31-14 playoffs
48-9 playoffs
Lots of "lopsided" scores!
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 282
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 282 |
The sad thing is that some of these lopsided scores don't have to happen. In the earlier post, AC Flora 20-0 win after they already beat that team 13-0 earlier in season. Way too many times this season teams put up more goals the second time around. You can't say there was nothing to do to keep the score down. No reason to add 7 more goals the second game. I know the 13-0 is lopsided as well but the second game should have been less.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678
goal
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OP
goal
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678 |
Quote:
Some scores from Byrnes' football team the past three years:
2009
43-7
65-14
52-6
85-8
60-7
49-6
42-9
72-27
53-0
58-0 playoffs
69-28 playoffs
51-16 playoffs
2008
45-20
63-0
38-0
42-14
38-12
39-3
48-7
70-27
42-6
34-0 playoffs
48-7 playoffs
2007
55-28
45-7
63-9
38-20
28-12
49-14
62-0
56-14 playoffs
31-14 playoffs
48-9 playoffs
Lots of "lopsided" scores!
Yep, then they turn around and get beat when it matters in the playoffs to Dorman 28-17.
Plus one score/goal in soccer is worth a total of one point/goal. In football a score and extra point can be worth 8 points. So a football score of 69-28(Byrnes) isn't as lopsided as a 20-0 (AC Flora) score. So when Byrnes starts beating teams by 140 points that will equate to the lopsided soccer scores. Plus in soccer you have teams that are not ranked beating teams by 15 goals then turning around the next week and getting beat by 8-10 goals. That my friend's isn't happening in football. However I do love the Idea that Hobo mentioned, if it can just be tweaked to work.
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