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Does anyone think club soccer commitments are hurting high school boys and girls? Are your high school kids complaining about it?
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What does that mean? How does club hurt HS? If anything it's the other way around.
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Sorry I omitted the most important word, TIME. Are your kids complaining about missing out on high school activities such as BB games, Friday night football, homecoming, prom, just being with high school friends, that sort of thing. What I'm asking is do you thik Club soccer hurts the high school experience because of the time commitment. 3 practises a week, gone fri-sun every weekend.
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It's a choice the kids make. Many are looking at their club commitments as a way to gain entry into college with hopefully, a scholarship.
I haven't seen the challenge and above kids complain about it too much. Some of the classic kids do.
What club team is gone every weekend, Fri-Sun, that is not a RIII team?
There are many club teams that DON'T practice 3 times a week.
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Are the kids making the choice, or is it the parents pushing them? Also, what is an RIII team, and when do they play, and how many days a week do they practice?
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I played Premier League games on the weekends, practiced three times a week, and took part time college classes when I was in high school. I don't regret it for a second and my parents never pressured me into it. Playing club doesn't mean you miss out on everything; it just means you have to be more creative about scheduling =). Believe me; I still did plenty back then.
It's been a while and I can't say the same still stands, but some of the girls I played with have little sisters who play both and it doesn't look like they miss out on anything either.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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Quote:
Are the kids making the choice, or is it the parents pushing them? Also, what is an RIII team, and when do they play, and how many days a week do they practice?
Well, if you are a RIII team or Region III team (there are only 2 per state in each eligible age group. You have to win the challenge cup and/or be the finalist in order to be invited), then you travel to different states just for your games. That is definitely an all weekend type of deal and you would practice more.
AS far as parents vs kids...I don't know of many kids that don't want to play and are strongly "encouraged" by their parents at that level. It is a major time and financial commitment.
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ak: it sounds like you had a very productive soccer career and alot on your plate, congrats on your success. The only reason I brought this up is that my upstate friend said that the u18 girls at CESA lost over 25 players out of about 40-45 in the u18 girls pool. She said there is no more classic team. She said they have 21 players that are going to divide time between Challenge league, a Premier league, and a league called ECNL. I think I would of had to sleep with one eye open if I put my son through that his senior year. It just sounds like alot of overkill games to me. In fact she said their u18 premier girls team flew to Seattle today with 11 players. No subs??? My question is what are they thinking.
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I think it's a trend to lose players their junior/senior year as they realise they don't want to play in college and just aren't interested in putting that much time and effort into the game at that point. I quit my team during summer training for regionals because I was entering college in the fall (unlike most of my rising senior teammates)and not interested in two-a-day, every day practices. I preferred to have a job and save up money to enjoy the summer. I know a lot of fellow players who made similar decisions their last year or so of high school for the same reasons: different priorities.
That said, combining ECNL, Premier, and Challenge seems a bit strenuous. A pool means not everyone is going to play all three all the time, but it's still asking a lot compared to manning one Premier/ECNL team and cutting the other players--though there's something to be said for club-player loyalty in not cutting them. I've definitely played a tournament with no subs though...it's brutal, but I enjoyed the playing time while I had it and we only did it once or twice in multiple years of playing; usually you can find one or two guest players to fill the gap. And playing 11 in Seattle isn't quite the same as 11 in Lousiana; a little more forgiving temperature/climate-wise.
At any rate, at that level and age, you're playing because you still enjoy it and want to or because you plan on playing in college. You pretty much don't hack it if you're not enjoying it; it's too much work. Unfortunately though, it comes down to growing up. Eventually you have to put down the crayons and pigtails for the pearls and heels (figuratively speaking)...and extremely competitive soccer becomes less of a priority for some.
(And thank you for the props; I owe a lot of where I am to lessons I learned from soccer).
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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Quote:
Does anyone think club soccer commitments are hurting high school boys and girls? Are your high school kids complaining about it?
so you're asking this question base on 1 team's situation? and you're in the midlands and this team is in the upstate. what gives?
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I must confess. I have a family member in the upstate who is contemplating playing club soccer at the travel level. The family was all gung ho on doing it, but have heard unfavorable things the past couple of weeks about costs and commitment to this club. This is no reflection on any specific club or area. Were just trying to help her make a decision because she also plays basketball and would like to do that at a competitive level as well. A friend of ours told us get info from both sides, which we have already received from the club. My friend told me about this website and said I would get a more objective view because parents frequent this site. Your input is much appreciated.
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...she also plays basketball and would like to do that at a competitive level as well...
One of my sons teammates plays both travel soccer and AAU basketball. They (his family) put in a ton of hours getting him from practice to practice. Often we will have a game or tourney out of town and he will have an AAU game or tourney at the same time. More than once they have had to be in two different cities on the same day one for an AM soccer match and another for a PM basketball game. Talking to his father last season he said he was going to have to make a choice this year.
Yes, it can be done but it takes a toll on those involved.
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
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gbdawgs,
Tell them to play at the classic level..The costs and commitment are usually not as high and the player can get a feel for if this is something they want to pursue..
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By the time a kid is 15 or so they need to pick what they want to do. If hey are still playing multiple sports they are probably not college bound in either.
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Really?
What do you mean by "not college bound"? Can you have a nice competitive club soccer experience, and then decide perhaps to not play varsity college soccer and enroll at Clemson or USC? If a kid does this, is he or she a failure? Did the kid, or better yet, the parents, make "a mistake"?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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I'm going to try to avoid being snarky, despite my strong urge...
Hurst is right. A majority of kids continue to play competitively throughout high school with zero intent of playing in college. We play because we enjoy the sport (whichever it happens to be) and enjoy the competition. There's no need to "pick" a sport if you're enjoying all you are doing and it certainly doesn't hinder any development later in life.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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gbd: Depending on the child's age, it is possible to play club soccer in the fall and AAU in the spring. I think organized activities are very important. Healthy activities tend to teach hard work, discipline, teamwork, time management, organization, goal setting, sportsmanship, and they give a kid the feeling of belonging. Club does not interfere with prom or Friday night football games. For those that are truly gifted and dedicated, it provides a way to prepare for the collegiate setting. Soccer is a sport that is very family friendly, too. Travelling gives the parent and child time together that they might not otherwise have.
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observer: that's not what i'm hearing from a very reliable source. homecoming, prom's, friday night football is being missed by premier teams. you don't lose over 25+ players out of a pool of 50 girls because their number one love is soccer. when i was 17/18 i was more interested in hanging out with my friends than spending a fri-sat night in a hotel with my parents and i'm 50 years old.i'm sure things havent changed that much. i'm just hearing that CESA is making their u18 girls play in three leagues this coming year. I don't think it's the clubs fault,but I do think some parents need to have their head examined if their putting their child through this.
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gbd - you are on the wrong track helping a family member make a decision to play travel soccer based on a single team's situation. even more so with looking at a u18g team. there's usually some craziness with u18 teams as players make decision to play/not to play in college.
i'm not sure what u r really up to talking up this 1 team situation so much.
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gbd: Club season starting at U15 is only in the fall. Region III games are about 5 or 6 weekends scattered from August to November. (Region III is their schedule, they do not do challenge league and some of their games are at home) State Cup is 2 weekends in December. ECNL is about 3 or 4 weekends scattered throughout the year. If your kid is not a premier player, then club is just in the fall. Prom is typically in April or May. Football games are almost every Friday night in the fall. Whichever weekend you play at home or don't have a game, attending football games is definitely an option. I hope that organized activities tend to keep kids from doing things that are illegal.
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As far as losing 25+ players, to be blunt, if there heart isn't in it, they don't need to play. It is costly to travel and it is not fair to those whose #1 love is soccer. Playing with a team of no subs or 1 or 2 in which all kids are there because they want to be is way more fun than playing with people who don't care. Small pool means more playing time and more individual attention at training.
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Just asking hard questions so we can make a decision re our family member. Here's my next question. I was told and I could be wrong, that d1 and d2 college soccer programs on the girls side only have 12 scholarships available for rosters that are 25-30 players. If these numbers are correct. It seems like scholarship money is spread a little thin for girls college soccer. I was told girls college basketball has 15 scholarships available for an 18 person roster. It seems like college scholarship dollars are more plentiful for basketball than soccer. Are these numbers correct? Is it safe to say no high school girls soccer player is going to get a full athletic scholarship in soccer?
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letme: maybe your club doesn't have the negatives that I've heard about the big club in the upstate. Maybe we should look into your club. Which one is it?
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gbd, I'm having a hard time following just what it is you are trying to say...you seem to have some sort of adgenda. But I can not figure out what it is.
If you are truly wanting to know about commitment level time and cost ect... here it is in a nut shell.
Like everything else in life it is what you make of if. It can be as time consuming and costly as you want it to be. It is all about what the individual player wants to get out of the experience. It is not about what club they play for, every club in SC offers programs that will get a player to the level they desire.
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
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POP: So your saying if your child fully commits to a club (money and effort) the club can guarantee your child playing D1 college soccer and getting scholarship money? What clubs would you recomend to put her in this situation and what clubs would you stay aeay from because their just trying to make a buck.
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gbd: to play D1 college soccer there are several avenues that should be followed:
1. Play Region III Premier (whichever club holds those 2-3 spots in your kid's age group) and / or ECNL
2. Play ODP
3. Go to camps...clubs do not get the kids scholarships...they provide an avenue to be showcased
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I should have listed this first: make sure it is your child's desire is to play D1! This is the most important thing to consider!
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gdb: No one can guarantee anything when it comes to scholarships or even playing D1 and I never said or implied that they could!!! Anyone who has their child playing solely because they are expecting their child to get a scholarship is doing it for the wrong reason.
I'm still a little confused about where you are going with this. You started this thread and asked if people thought the commitments for club soccer were hurting the high school experience. Now you are asking which sport (basketball or soccer) should a child play to have the best shot at a scholarship.
I can tell you from experience that contrary to the popular belief on this forum you DO NOT have to play R3PL, ECNL, USSFDA, ODP to be offered a scholarship to play in college. My daughter that graduated this past year was actively recruited and offered scholarship money by 2 colleges (one private, one D1). My daughter did not play ODP and was only on a R3PL team one year, she played her last 2 years in the SCSCL and on her school team. Ironically, after 14 years of playing soccer she decided she was finished. She is not going to play in college and is not going to either one of the schools that offered soccer money.
As a side note - Both colleges applied the lottery money, academic money and any other monies they could dig up before they made any sort of athletic offer. In total is was enough to cover the cost at either school. I throw that out there to point out the importance of the academics not just the athletics.
The best advice I could give is let the child decide!
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
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SoccerPOP is right; if you're just trying to figure out how to get money for college, soccer and any sport is NOT the way to do it. The way to do that is to do well in school and earn academic money because there is a hundred times more academic financial aid available than there will ever be athletic.
And again, you can make whatever you want of soccer; whether it's playing at the highest level because you think it's fun, but won't go for it, or if you're playing Challenge League because there's not a PL team close by and you do want to play in college. You can make it work and still have a life and do a whole lot of stuff outside if you do it correctly.
Kids should play because they're having fun and enjoying it, not because it's to get money or please their parents or pad a CV.
However, you seem to want a specific answer as to what to do regarding this family member, so here's as specific as I can be:
Talk to the coaches to get an average on how many games the player will participate in throughout the season. Then sit down with the child and lay it out for them and be clear about approximately how many games will be played and how much work will go into playing during the year. Lay out continued expectations regarding grades and responsibilities that continue despite the playing time--and not in a mean or scary way that intends to frighten them into a decision either.
Then ask the PLAYER what SHE wants to do and let her do it.
If she's U18, it sounds like she's probably a senior. It may be her last year to hang out with fellow players and teammates and play this competitively and it's a year she should enjoy as much as possible while still working hard. She's almost an adult; almost out of the home and having to take care of herself at college. I think she's probably ready to sit down and decide whether or not this CESA team is one SHE wants to play for, not one her family thinks she should.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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Quote:
However, you seem to want a specific answer as to what to do regarding this family member, so here's as specific as I can be:
Talk to the coaches to get an average on how many games the player will participate in throughout the season. Then sit down with the child and lay it out for them and be clear about approximately how many games will be played and how much work will go into playing during the year. Lay out continued expectations regarding grades and responsibilities that continue despite the playing time--and not in a mean or scary way that intends to frighten them into a decision either.
Then ask the PLAYER what SHE wants to do and let her do it.
If she's U18, it sounds like she's probably a senior. It may be her last year to hang out with fellow players and teammates and play this competitively and it's a year she should enjoy as much as possible while still working hard. She's almost an adult; almost out of the home and having to take care of herself at college. I think she's probably ready to sit down and decide whether or not this CESA team is one SHE wants to play for, not one her family thinks she should.
Good advice.
Also, realize that if she is U-16....she may have an entirely different outlook when she is U-18. That doesn't mean the U-16 & U-17 years were a "waste". 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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The whole academic money thing to me is interesting. Soccer forums often come back to the line of reasoning that there is more academic money available then there is soccer.
Could well be. But IMO.....getting real academic money is just as hard as getting real athletic money. Its not really for average students or above average students. If you are mostly an A student and score an SAT > 1250 there will probably be some money for you. Equal to if you play Academy or ECNL or R3PL with a bunch of ODP years behind you.
Those kids who qualify.....are probably no more common that the kids who get scholarships for sports. Whether academics or athletics.....the highest tier has options and most everyone else is on the outside looking in, via loans etc.
The average SCSCL player ain't probably getting soccer money, nor is the average graduating HS senior getting any academic money outside of lottery money. Private schools usually offer some......but a fraction of what their costs are.
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I have 2 grandaughters who recieved $5,000 each in life scholarships last year from the state of SC because of their gpa. I think they have to maintain a 3.5 . I think this year it's $5,300. You can throw this money out the door if you go out of state to attend college.
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Actually, there is a lot more academic money available simply because there are thousands of private scholarships and grants available on top of what the institutions are offering and there is no governing body that determines the number (or amount) of scholarships any school is allowed to offer its students. Additionally, states offer programs very similar to the "Palmetto Fellows" and "Life" scholarships that South Carolina has where any student with a decent SAT/ACT score (which, since we're all from the 1600 era of the SAT = ~10-1100), a 3.0, and is in the top 30% (for a large high school, can be up to 168 people) can get up to 5k a year or more. And that's a 3.0 regardless of whether you're college prep or AP/Honors/IB.
Also, you have to consider the fact that most colleges rarely offer full athletic rides; usually they offer partial rides with academic and or need-based aid to fill in the rest. Per the NYT (sorry, don't feel like pulling out the PubMed), the average girls' soccer award covers only 43% of college tuition and ~4000 soccer scholarships were shared between ~9300 student athletes.
"In 2003-4, there was the equivalent of one full N.C.A.A. men’s soccer scholarship available for about every 145 boys who were playing high school soccer four years earlier." -http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1
Comparing that to the fact that just with a state scholarship like LIFE, up to 168 students from ONE SCHOOL can earn 5k (using numbers from my graduating class)...your odds of earning money for college are statistically better with doing well academically, and in extracurriculars. Add that guaranteed state scholarship to any of the thousands of private scholarships/grants you can apply for and athletics is only a small piece of the pie. You can get money for being related to a Daughter of the Revolution, or a Shriner, or for knowing someone who's a VFA, for a piece of artwork in a contest, or a speech.
Any way you look at it, if you're looking for straight up money, unless you're one of the 2% of 6.4 million high school athletes...sports aren't the way to go.
Last edited by adidaskitten86; 07/16/10 08:22 PM.
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I agree with ya big daddy it is very difficult to get "real money or a full ride" in any one situation. Which IMO is where the grades come into play! because if you are a "quality" soccer player and also a "quality" student you can receive some money from both which when added together equals real money. You don't have to be a Lionel Messi or Albert Einstein to get real money. You can be a Peter Crouch and a Shibumi combined and still get real money!  There is a lot more money available for the well rounded "quality" student athlete than there is for just the athlete or just the student.
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Ripping Shibumi.....wow! That dude's much smarter than Egghead Einstein.  My son's girlfriend is over 50% Native American. She will be "checking the box" when she applies to colleges next semester! 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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All of this info has been helpful, and I'm not knocking soccer in general. I've had a daughter who played travel volleyball, a son who played in the SCJGA (golf)and travel baseball and the costs were relatively affordable, and we spent time in many hotels but mostly in the southeast. So when my daughter brings home her notes from the Club Soccer meeting and said dad these are the costs associated with your grandaughter playing for the big club in the upstate this year. I was floored, and said OH MY! I actually said something other than OH MY! I said honey, put the basketball in her hand and walk away, you can't afford that. And by no means is she below the poverty level.She lives in a middle class neighborhood in the upstate. Actually the club fees are not bad, but the travel costs are ridiculous.So POP and observer where I'm going with this is that Soccer Clubs are requiring to much from kids and are charging an arm and a leg for it.
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Quote:
Actually, there is a lot more academic money available simply because there are thousands of private scholarships and grants available on top of what the institutions are offering and there is no governing body that determines the number (or amount) of scholarships any school is allowed to offer its students. Additionally, states offer programs very similar to the "Palmetto Fellows" and "Life" scholarships that South Carolina has where any student with a decent SAT/ACT score (which, since we're all from the 1600 era of the SAT = ~10-1100), a 3.0, and is in the top 30% (for a large high school, can be up to 168 people) can get up to 5k a year or more. And that's a 3.0 regardless of whether you're college prep or AP/Honors/IB.
Also, you have to consider the fact that most colleges rarely offer full athletic rides; usually they offer partial rides with academic and or need-based aid to fill in the rest. Per the NYT (sorry, don't feel like pulling out the PubMed), the average girls' soccer award covers only 43% of college tuition and ~4000 soccer scholarships were shared between ~9300 student athletes.
"In 2003-4, there was the equivalent of one full N.C.A.A. men’s soccer scholarship available for about every 145 boys who were playing high school soccer four years earlier." -http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1
Comparing that to the fact that just with a state scholarship like LIFE, up to 168 students from ONE SCHOOL can earn 5k (using numbers from my graduating class)...your odds of earning money for college are statistically better with doing well academically, and in extracurriculars. Add that guaranteed state scholarship to any of the thousands of private scholarships/grants you can apply for and athletics is only a small piece of the pie. You can get money for being related to a Daughter of the Revolution, or a Shriner, or for knowing someone who's a VFA, for a piece of artwork in a contest, or a speech.
Any way you look at it, if you're looking for straight up money, unless you're one of the 2% of 6.4 million high school athletes...sports aren't the way to go.
I'm not saying athletic money is plentiful, nor am I saying its easy to get. Hardly.
But outside of state provided lottery money that ranges from $2800 to $5k I think.....the above average kid isn't likely to get much more than the $500 VFW Good American scholarship.
Like sports....top notch students have money available. But the kids getting that money are the ones with 4.2 gpa's and 1300 SAT's. And a kid with a 105 IQ isn't going to score 1300 on his SAT regardless of how hard he/she works.
My point isn't a comparison of athletic to academic so much as its a comparison of opportunities for the gifted vs those in the middle of the bell curve.
A player of average athleticism and skill can work his tail off and never make the national team or a regional team. A kid with that 105 IQ....can study their tails off and do really well in school, but still not get the test scores necessary to tap into significant scholarship money.
Kids driven to compete in soccer should play because they love it and want to be the best they can be. Kids should work hard in school as a means of preparing themselves for life and eventually being able to earn a living.
Trying to excel at either for the primary purpose of chasing scholarship money is misguided at best, for most people. Solomon said it best.....meaningless, meaningless.
Typical private school is what......$35,000? $5k lottery money....school grants of $8k. Kid scrounges around and picks up $1500 in minor scholarships. Still looking at $21k in costs.
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Well, if people are that concerned about money, they should probably be looking to stay at an in-state public uni where tuition is only 5-10k.
At any rate, I was never proposing that anyone should be doing anything for a full ride. I was just saying that it is statistically more likely to win some amount of aid through non-athletic means.
Last edited by adidaskitten86; 07/16/10 11:00 PM.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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Quote:
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Actually, there is a lot more academic money available simply because there are thousands of private scholarships and grants available on top of what the institutions are offering and there is no governing body that determines the number (or amount) of scholarships any school is allowed to offer its students. Additionally, states offer programs very similar to the "Palmetto Fellows" and "Life" scholarships that South Carolina has where any student with a decent SAT/ACT score (which, since we're all from the 1600 era of the SAT = ~10-1100), a 3.0, and is in the top 30% (for a large high school, can be up to 168 people) can get up to 5k a year or more. And that's a 3.0 regardless of whether you're college prep or AP/Honors/IB.
Also, you have to consider the fact that most colleges rarely offer full athletic rides; usually they offer partial rides with academic and or need-based aid to fill in the rest. Per the NYT (sorry, don't feel like pulling out the PubMed), the average girls' soccer award covers only 43% of college tuition and ~4000 soccer scholarships were shared between ~9300 student athletes.
"In 2003-4, there was the equivalent of one full N.C.A.A. men’s soccer scholarship available for about every 145 boys who were playing high school soccer four years earlier." -http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1
Comparing that to the fact that just with a state scholarship like LIFE, up to 168 students from ONE SCHOOL can earn 5k (using numbers from my graduating class)...your odds of earning money for college are statistically better with doing well academically, and in extracurriculars. Add that guaranteed state scholarship to any of the thousands of private scholarships/grants you can apply for and athletics is only a small piece of the pie. You can get money for being related to a Daughter of the Revolution, or a Shriner, or for knowing someone who's a VFA, for a piece of artwork in a contest, or a speech.
Any way you look at it, if you're looking for straight up money, unless you're one of the 2% of 6.4 million high school athletes...sports aren't the way to go.
I'm not saying athletic money is plentiful, nor am I saying its easy to get. Hardly.
But outside of state provided lottery money that ranges from $2800 to $5k I think.....the above average kid isn't likely to get much more than the $500 VFW Good American scholarship.
Like sports....top notch students have money available. But the kids getting that money are the ones with 4.2 gpa's and 1300 SAT's. And a kid with a 105 IQ isn't going to score 1300 on his SAT regardless of how hard he/she works.
My point isn't a comparison of athletic to academic so much as its a comparison of opportunities for the gifted vs those in the middle of the bell curve.
A player of average athleticism and skill can work his tail off and never make the national team or a regional team. A kid with that 105 IQ....can study their tails off and do really well in school, but still not get the test scores necessary to tap into significant scholarship money.
Kids driven to compete in soccer should play because they love it and want to be the best they can be. Kids should work hard in school as a means of preparing themselves for life and eventually being able to earn a living.
Trying to excel at either for the primary purpose of chasing scholarship money is misguided at best, for most people. Solomon said it best.....meaningless, meaningless.
Typical private school is what......$35,000? $5k lottery money....school grants of $8k. Kid scrounges around and picks up $1500 in minor scholarships. Still looking at $21k in costs.
BigDaddy - We have a winner!
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gbd: Actually, club fees, team fees, and travel fees in South Carolina are much more affordable than the surrounding states. Some clubs offer scholarships and payment plans.
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What's up with all the U-18 girls not returning to CESA? Losing some 25 girls from your normal pool of players seems a bit odd. Some of these players have been playing club soccer since the 1st grade. Anyone heard anything?
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I don't know what's going on specific to the CESA U-18 girls team but I can tell you, having had four daughters play competitive club soccer, their commitment level varies tremendously. One of them quit club soccer after U-15, two others played on competitive teams in Charlotte, but then scaled it back and played local for their U-18 season. My youngest seems to want to play at the highest level possible all the way through U-18.
Analyze the kids.......not just the club. To play R3PL or ECNL at U-18 you have to be very committed.....and if you are a player from out of the area, the commitment is even greater.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Maybe a mature teenager realizes how the costs affect their family's financial situation.
Maybe a mature teenager realizes the scholarship money in college soccer(peanuts) isn't worth the effort.
Maybe a mature teenager start thinking what am I going to have for spending money at college next year, I better get a job.
Maybe a mature teenager says "Hey this my life", There is more than just soccer.
Maybe a mature teenager says I'm going to enjoy my senior year.
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Well said, gbdawgs..
Like Hurst said..look at the kid and not the club.
It's just a part of life where kids move on to something else and priorites change and they can still play soccer on a not so serious level..
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adidaskitten86 had mentioned that it is easier to play with no subs in Seattle than in Louisiana. Unfortunately, several of the CESA girls teams played games with one or no subs in Baton Rouge. The '92 team played the state champs from South Texas with the no subs, the keeper on the bench with hamstring injury and a field player in goal (she played quite well, btw). With injuries, illnesses and a November roster freeze it just worked out that way, so after Regionals and looking at the final roster selections the club seems to have decided to fill rosters to their capacity (U-18 capacity is 22). That change in direction (can't remember a previous year the club filled rosters to capacity) after the club posted the Premier/Challenge pool may have cost some of the players positions.
The 3 CESA '92 teams had 45 players on last year's rosters. The pool selections posted after tryouts included, I believe, 27 names. I don't know how many registered for tryouts to know how many players may have decided prior to tryouts not to play (or play at another club) and how many may have been cut to get 27. Given past rosters 27 may have been considered enough to put 2 teams on the field. However, maximizing a roster of 22 would mean 5 of the 27 would now have no Challenge team to join, and additional cuts may have been made.
As many of you have said you have to ask the individuals for the reasoning behind the decisions. It should also be noted that just because previous members of the CESA '92 teams don't appear on next year's roster it doesn't necessarily mean they've given up the game or a desire to play in college.
At least 2 of the players graduated and will be playing in college on soccer scholarships next year. Those 2 were members of the Premier team. I don't know if there were seniors on the Challenge/Classic teams last year. At least 2 players, 1 Challenge and 1 Premier (both committed to play at same college) are moving to another club to play their senior year together in the Challenge League (at significantly lower cost and with the college coach's approval). Another player committed to play in college who played several years on the Premier team but spent the last couple of years on the Challenge team is moving to another club to play her senior year in Premier League. There are at least a couple of other Challenge team members that have committed to play in college but will not be returning to play at CESA (don't know if they are playing elsewhere).
On the other side of the highway you also have 4 or 5 players on next year's CESA '92 roster that will be playing for CESA for the first time. Another player who played previously for CESA Premier, then moved to another Premier team is also returning to CESA.
Yes, there has been what seems to be an unusual amount of movement within the '92 age group at CESA this year, and I'm sure some of the movement is based on reasons already stated. I'm guessing there has been some movement in the SCUFC '92 rosters as well now that they are headed to R3PL, although probably not to the extent seen at CESA.
As far as a player's commitment to playing in three leagues, it's not as overwhelming as it may look on the surface. The ECNL schedule will be participation in the CASL tournament, another ECNL event in Florida between Christmas and New Year (not Disney), and 4 additional games. Until ECNL is fully evolved those events represent the team's tournament schedule. With 21/22 players on the roster playing both R3PL and Challenge League will allow greater opportunities relative to playing time as well as opportunites for some players to gain some experience playing in positions they don't usually get the chance to play in R3PL. I'm fairly certain the bulk of movement has nothing to do with a perceived demand of playing in 3 leagues, but you'd have to ask the individual players to know for sure.
GBDAWGS, none of those events or leagues occur in the Spring when they could conflict with the SC High School season. If you are considering joining or advising someone who is considering joining the CESA '92 team, then after you analyze the movement by those who will not be playing U-18 at CESA next year (I'm sure all of the "maybe" list could apply), you may want to analyze the reasoning of those who have decided to stay or join for the first time. I'm sure they will put a competitive group on the field.
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The Seatle trip for the 92 girls was probably the best ECNL trip they had despite only having 8 girls from the season roster attending. They only had 11 players, 3 of which hadn't even had a practice with the whole team prior to their first game. Their results were one of their best. They beat CASL for the first time. They won their second game against a PA team and lost their third game against a California team in the second overtime. The big contributing factor of their success at this tournament is they actually had all the girls wanting to be there and giving their 100%. They did stuff as a team on and off the field. As Hurst says at 17,18 years old to play at a high level, you have to be committed and really want to play. Players that are ok with missing their high school football games, dances, socializing. Players willing to take on extra jobs if needed to earn the money to play because the traveling is expensive. In return, they get a priceless experience of traveling to different cities, playing different teams across the states, improving their soccer and expanding their horizons. It is not for every kid who may have soccer talent, but for the one with the talent, attitude, desire, and commitment, it can be an incredible experience. They aren't just playing for a chance of a scholarship. They have to love it. Maybe it would make sense to have a "state team" that does the ECNL league and then beef up the challenge league. For the players that want the travel experience and added commitment, they play in the ECNL league. For the ones that enjoy soccer but don't want the high level of commitment, join a team that doesn't have the travel commitment. Don't make the selection of the "traveling" team purely on soccer talent. Talent doesn't always equate to commitment, passion or desire.
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Wow! Sounds to me like you made this a little too personal. Those other "rostered" girls were hurt, not uncommitted.
However, my personal opinion is that no matter how committed you are, there is probably going to be times that a player may wish they were able to attend those other events (i.e., homecoming, graduation of friends or family, etc) ... they just may not always convey that to the "overly-committed" parent.
Congrats to the team and they certainly should be applauded for their accomplishments.
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Totally agree with gettingoutofhere and even the player that wants the travel and loves soccer doesn't likely want it or should be commited 100% of the time. They need to and want to attend other special events. The point was more that traveling all around to play soccer at a "high" level isn't for every kid and it would be nice to have both options for talented players. Sorry, did not say or mean to imply why the other rostered girls didn't go. In actuality, there were numerous reasons from injuries, schedule conflicts with ODP, college soccer programs, financial, lack of interest etc.
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"Don't make the selection of the "traveling" team purely on soccer talent. Talent doesn't always equate to commitment, passion or desire."
scwame, while I totally agree with this statement, it does make me chuckle. In my sons age group, the CESA coaches definitely don't practice this. I was told by the challenge coach that my son was dropped down because of his size. He said he had better skill and better attitude and works harder than almost everyone that was kept on the challenge team. I believe this coach thinks he can make the bigger players better. I tend to disagree. My son will grow but at u15 these kids with little skill who have been involved since u10 won't just develop those skills. He also kept a few players that over the past few years have been less than dedicated and it showed this week at team camp. Between the 1 challenge and 2 classic teams at u15, they had 11 players!!! Best part? They tied the full premier team. Somethings wrong with the selection process but what are you going to do. The coaches are so much more knowledgable than everyone else (haha).
So scwame, please pass along those words of wisdom I quoted of yours to everyone you can.
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Reminds me of a session by Bill Beswick I attended at last year's NSCAA convention on the topic of mindset as the key to success. One of the things he emphasized was that a "B" talent level with an "A" attitude and commitment will, in the long run, outperform an "A" talent level with a "B" attitude and commitment.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Clark - the premier teams always play with "restrictions" when playing the challenge teams. They use this time to do things like play only with their weak foot, required to make a certain number of passes, score only on crosses/headers/etc. The goal is not to "win" but continue development in a scrimmage situation. Hopefully the goal is that all teams get something out of the scrimmage.
Having played premier league, size does matter. The speed of play and physical nature of the game is definitely increased at the next level.
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Quote:
What's up with all the U-18 girls not returning to CESA? Losing some 25 girls from your normal pool of players seems a bit odd. Some of these players have been playing club soccer since the 1st grade. Anyone heard anything?
I think two more players have dropped off the CESA u-18 team. That makes seven players that I know of not returning for various reasons. One of the players was not aware of the total cost to her parents and when she found out swayed her to not return this year. Premier level soccer takes a big committment on both the parents and players part. I just think it might be getting a little much. That brings the total pool of CESA u18 girls (Premier,Challenge, and Classic) to 19. They are supposely going to play Premier league, Challenge League, and the ECNL League. Wow.... that will be a lot of soccer for some of the players.
That there is an RV Clark......
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They are down to 19?
How are 19 players going to play in three leagues?
Better get out the credit cards, lots of travel in their future.
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How many players do you have to have rostered from the previous year to stay in R3 premier league?
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I think you must return 60%. I think they had 15 last season, so it would take 9 returnees, if my numbers are correct.
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Just looked up the eligibilty rule. Its 50%. 1 more player walks, their ineligible or would have to petition to stay in. Sounds like they need to keep every U18 parent and player "real happy".
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gbdawgs, Bomber and Hobo
Couldn't you guys just call each other on the phone? Wouldn't that be easier? I mean, you know each other. You've spent plenty of time together.
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hey harry did you go to cesa and ask about the costs this year for elite 15,16 ,or 17s this year??
Relax...breathe,then bust it!!
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Can't afford the long distance to call them. Got to pay CESA.
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Wow. Appreciate all the concern for CESA from outsiders.
My daughter will be playing for CESA U18 premier this year
and the kids who are staying like each other and play well
together and it showed in Seattle. I feel a turnover this year was needed and if it means we don't play premier league
this year so be it. Lots of soccer tournaments around who will take our money. Its not who we play its that we play. I can't imagine we are the only club in the US who has a hard time keeping the U18's together. We would have had two teams this year but some girls who did not make premier took their balls and ran to another club. Such is the life
of athletics in clubs and high schools. Chemistry is the key to success for teams and its hard to find sometimes. If premier league turns us down its their financial loss and my checkbook gain.
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Congrats Patriot on making u18 CESA premier. With your accomplishment you also win the consolation prize and get to play challenge league. I heard monthly fees went up a little bit for the U18's this past week. How much are they socking you for?
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If your daughter made the premier team just this year...I am not sure that you can speak to the fact that a turnover was needed. All of the games I attended when my daughter played it seemed the team had chemistry...it seemed to me the coach lost interest; therefore so did some of the girls. I dont think it is fair for anyone to talk about the girls that have decided not to play for whatever reason or say they were not committed (which seems to be the reason CESA is using)...because 4 of those girls were starters and did help in getting the team into the premier league. I personally think that for CESA to have them play in 3 leagues and drive up the costs so that it makes it cost prohibitive for some is bad when some of those girls have played and been committed to CESA for 10+ years. And as far as the girls that didn't make the premier league taking their balls and running to another club...I don't think that is the reason there are not 2 teams because there were a lot of challenge girls that decided not to play as well.
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Wow Patriot, I hope the Kool-Aid taste good, because you sure are drinking it. It is amusing that when a player leaves CESA and goes to another club, they are ranted with sarcasm and ridicule "took their balls and ran to another club", but when CESA lures one to them from another club, they are met with open arms and love. And when this occurs, who pays the price? Usually the local/Upstate/Greenville player who gets moved down to Challenge or Classic. And often times this is a player and family who have played for and supported GFC, St. Giles and CESA from day one. Why do they get moved down? Because CESA knows, odds are, they will not leave, and will live in hope of getting moved back up. In fact Patriot, your daughter should have always been on the Premier team and she proved that in Seattle. It's too bad you live in Greenville county. You got treated like a second class citizen, when in fact all you did was support the Club for many, many years. As to all the discussion as to why so many left the U18 pool this year, you would have to start with the Coaches and Club, then move down to the money, travel, time issues. It is not that these girls lost interest in soccer. They all are looking forward to their high school seasons.
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Seems like some people have forgotten Fight Club rules #1&2!
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Nine of the CESA 92 girls premier starters have either signed or given a verbal commitment and several others have verbal offers, not to bad for a team from Greenville with all the problems i have read about on this forum. 
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I don't know the answer. I know on one hand its a business and the more teams the better. I know I'm not going to pay loads of money so my daughter can sit on the bench so I want the teams to have 15-17 players. So how do you keep players if they don't make the premier. We had no problem playing challenge and played competitive teams. She took a year off before high school which helped her focus on what she wanted to do. I do question some of the coaches abilities to motivate these players so the child better be self motivating. Maybe CESA staff has to look at the way they treat the parents and kids. Maybe a little too much arrogance. I know that my daughter plays because she enjoys the game and it gives her structure. She doesnt play because of CESA. I appoligize for the take the ball and run but as a parent on the sidelines its hard to listen to the complaining every game. Tend to get sucked into it. As far as the amount of games: we are going to play when we can and when its too much the coaches will have to deal with it.
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Get the quote Monday. Think you can kiss the challenge league good bye for me. Either do challenge and no ECNL or vice versa. Players are in drivers seat now. Good to have the power
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Sweet who cares about college scholarships. I heard one player on the team was offered a $1000 scholarship at a $20,000 a year university. So the word scholarship means nothing in womens soccer. It's the amount of $$$ offered in the scholarship. And I'm 100% positive that no kid on that team got anything even close to what they've invested in playing for CESA over the past several years. College soccer scholarships are usually peanuts. 12 available scholarships available for a womens college team of between 25-30 players. It's easy to figure those numbers out.
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So Patriot, you are going to give them an ultimatum?
And you think you have "all the power"?
This will be interesting...
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Quote:
I don't know the answer. I know on one hand its a business and the more teams the better. I know I'm not going to pay loads of money so my daughter can sit on the bench so I want the teams to have 15-17 players. So how do you keep players if they don't make the premier. We had no problem playing challenge and played competitive teams. She took a year off before high school which helped her focus on what she wanted to do. I do question some of the coaches abilities to motivate these players so the child better be self motivating. Maybe CESA staff has to look at the way they treat the parents and kids. Maybe a little too much arrogance. I know that my daughter plays because she enjoys the game and it gives her structure. She doesnt play because of CESA. I appoligize for the take the ball and run but as a parent on the sidelines its hard to listen to the complaining every game. Tend to get sucked into it. As far as the amount of games: we are going to play when we can and when its too much the coaches will have to deal with it.
Sounds like a pre-season attitude based on "lack of committment" that leads to exercising one's "power" to say "No", which the players have always had, then taking one's ball and running to another club.
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OMG! Three leagues? THREE leagues?
Wait a minute, that's about the same number of games played in the Spring with High School and a couple of tournaments thrown in. All within driving distance (no airfare), and except for tournaments only 2 games a weekend. During High School, if players participate in CESA CAP at some point the kids have been known to end up playing as many as 10 games in eleven days.
The biggest problem I see with playing both Premier and Challenge leagues is the team will spend about 4-5 weeks playing in-state, then venture back into the Premier world to be re-awakened by Charlotte and CASL. Never a good formula for success.
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Quote:
as a parent on the sidelines its hard to listen to the complaining every game. Tend to get sucked into it.
Buy an iPOD. Enjoy the game.
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DD, you're right. Just heard about their schedule: two premier league dates to jacksonville, two ecnl events in raleigh and florida, and one tournament in greensboro.
I also think it's wrong to say college scholorships are no big deal. They are in fact a very big deal to the kids,both boys and girls regardless of club affiliation, and they take pride in them as they should. To somehow diminish these kids accomplishments is BS.
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And, one more thing. My daughter is one of the returning members of that team, and she worked her rear end off in battles with those players who left to earn the respect of those other teams in R3PLE and the right to continue playing there. As a teenager with text messaging I'm sure she knows more about the decisions the exiting players made than any of us posting on this site. Make no mistake she would still step on any field any time to play with them again. She considered it an honor to play with them. I've known most of those kids since they were U-8, and coached several of them. I would NEVER question their committment to the GAME or to their teammates, and to question the talent they brought to the field would be ludicrous.
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Dog, How much is all of this commitment costing you a month? Or should I say how much did they tell you at the meeting last month, and what's the price tag up to today.
Also, now it's 3 leagues, CAP and HS. And who on that team was committed to CAP???? CESA was pulling teeth last year to get the current u18 girls to attend CAP. Honestly can't think of any current u-18's that participated in CAP last year. CESA is also the club that told you that your daughter wouldn't have to play ECNL at u18, did you forget? CESA's also the club that was trying to chase down an extra $3000 from the team at the end of this past year,$200 per player (didn't see that in the budget). There also the club that was trying to chase down coaches fees for regionals( didn't see that in the budget). Dog, do you see a trend here? How many of these commitments do you want to keep paying for. Dog, How much can you take?
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Bottom line is that some of these players will only play Premier. Some will play Premier and Challenge/ECNL or Challenge and ECNL. Some will play all three. Some will be forced or encouraged to do more than they want, some will refuse. For the one's that can afford it and make the committment to do all three and STAY HEALTH, they will be better for it. For those that don't stay health... well it will suck. They all have choices. Some have already made their choice and some are going into this with good attitudes and some not so good. Good luck to all the girls.
Running with the big dogs
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dawgs,
for someone that said earlier in their posts that u had a granddaughter trying out for this team u sure do know a lot about the inner workings. i'm beginning to think that maybe you aren't who you say you are dawgs. You need to start getting your facts straight dawgs. CESA was told by ECNL last year that there would be no U18. ECNL changed that, not CESA. And the "league" they are in this year would be two tournaments- that is pretty customary anyway. Obviously dawgs you really hate cesa, we all get that. But why you're trying to tear down the group of girls that are on this team year is beyond me. Sorry it didn't work out for your "granddaughter" though.
Dog, you're right though. This team accomplished a lot last year gaining some respect.
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Raek: Exactly what sentence that I posted rips any girls on the team. "NONE". At least try to get the facts straight. But your right I can't stand clubs or companies that are not upfront with their customers. Do you enjoy dishonesty? Sounds like you might be on the CESA payroll.
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Dog, How much is all of this commitment costing you a month? Or should I say how much did they tell you at the meeting last month, and what's the price tag up to today.
Lost track right about the time I went into the red, but I figure the remainder of the Fall will run around $300-$375 total per month including hotels. Fortunately, I have relatives in Jacksonville and lots of hotel points. Are the club costs this year significantly higher than last year? Absolutely, especially considering we didn't have to pay training fees last year if we played ECNL, and this year we do. And uniforms, etc. But, I'm not flying to Houston or New Jersey.
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Also, now it's 3 leagues, CAP and HS. And who on that team was committed to CAP???? CESA was pulling teeth last year to get the current u18 girls to attend CAP. Honestly can't think of any current u-18's that participated in CAP last year.
At least a couple I know of from the Premier team did participate. They were also training for ODP at that time as well. My older daughter participated in CAP one Spring, and we realized the scheduling nightmare trying to honor conflicting "commitments" to CAP, HS, ODP and Club demands. So, my younger daughter participated in the combines and skipped CAP. However, on it's own, HS will usually represent 20 games plus playoffs, which is probably about the number of games the players playing in both Premier and Challenge leagues will end up playing.
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CESA is also the club that told you that your daughter wouldn't have to play ECNL at u18, did you forget?
That was a very, very late change made by ECNL dictated to the member clubs. My personal belief is it was a change made by ECNL to ensure the U-17 teams would have to make the the trip to Seattle or the club get kicked out of ECNL. My opinion. Even so, the ECNL committment for the U-18's this year is really not that different than not playing ECNL and going to the CASL and Disney tournaments anyway... no airline tickets. Did I like the seeming "bait and switch" roping the U-18's into another season of ECNL? No, but as I said, the result isn't going to change the impact on my wallet that much, because we'd be going to those tournaments anyway (note: the December ECNL event will not actually be Disney). The real future impact of ECNL will be on the younger teams.
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CESA's also the club that was trying to chase down an extra $3000 from the team at the end of this past year,$200 per player (didn't see that in the budget). There also the club that was trying to chase down coaches fees for regionals( didn't see that in the budget).
The coaches fees for regionals are normal and were known a few weeks before regionals (I know because my older daughter had already been to 4 previous regionals, and her team manager had already sent that team's request for a check), but I think the U-17's were of the understanding that as an ECNL team that wasn't required to pay training fees last year they would not have to pay coaches fees for regionals. Because the clarification came unexpectedly after regionals, it got bundled in with a team budget shortfall to cover ground transportation expenses for the team in New Jersey and Seattle. Also, because it was the team's first trip to regionals, the team costs associated with that event may have gotten slightly lost in all of the planning associated with coordinating flights, hotels, ground transportation, etc. associated with the two ECNL events before and after regionals. A lot of hectic work was done by team volunteers to get that team where it needed to be this summer. The $3000 included the coaches fees for regionals.
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Dog, do you see a trend here? How many of these commitments do you want to keep paying for.
Personally, here's the trend I see. My older daughter just finished U-18, and I'm now not paying club fees for her this year. My younger daughter is beginning her U-18 season, and...
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Dog, How much can you take?
Already past that point. Just trying to survive.
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Raekwon
I almost missed you at this forum. Last time i had a chance to post was when you told me that the CESA ECNL teams won't have to pay the training fees yada yada yada... How did that turn out? 3000$ coaching fees for regionals??? You have to be joking! What did they fly a Land Rover jet?
Since you are a CESA kool aid drinking character and seem to know a lot about the red upstate machine maybe you will fill us in on what happen to almighty Nick Finotti?
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Patriot, where did you go? Did you get summmoned to the "office" yesterday?
Where is your quote?
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Hey Patriot!! I heard that you was considering taking your ball and running with the other girls but you decided that if all these girls do leave then maybe just maybe my daughter will have a chance to make the premier team!!
If in fact all these girls had not left CESA then yours would still be just one of the local girls stuck on the challenge team!! That is FACT!!!
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3000$ coaching fees for regionals???
No. $900 coach's fees (that includes coach's expenses, etc.) for week @ regionals. Then you have multiple van rentals, toll road charges (adds up, especially around NJ & NYC), coach's expenses, printing of player recruiting profiles, etc. for each of 2 ECNL events. The $900 regional fees were part of the $3000 total divided by 15 players = $200 per player.
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If in fact all these girls had not left CESA then yours would still be just one of the local girls stuck on the challenge team!! That is FACT!!!
Not necessarily so. With no one leaving (other than the 2 that graduated) you would only have 13 players returning. Look at the roster sizes of all the CESA girls Premier teams for this coming year. It seems the club finally figured out that if you want to have more than 11 or 12 players healthy and available for regionals you better start with more than 14-15 players in the Fall. If Patriot's daughter is who I think she is, she is a former member of that team and a solid player who maybe should already have been returned to that roster. However, that doesn't mean I agree with Patriot that some kind of "turnover" was necessary. The non-graduating players that left more than justified their positions on last year's team through their performance on and off the field. Considering the club's change in direction to take advantage of a roster's maximum capacity and the graduation of two existing players, there was going to be room on the roster for the upcoming year to pick up additional quality players capable of playing that level. I'm sure Patriot's daughter is going to be one of those players.
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delta dog,its great that you are happy with the costs,training,travel,etc that cesa provides for your daughters.But after the southern regionals,I cant be as complacent or agree with you.Our teams coach had 2 teams to coach and he spent very little time with our girls.He showed up at game time,but let the assistant or trainers prepare them for the game.The only time he talked to the parents was to ridicule us with bs about not being supportive of the team.That was our first trip to regionals in 3 years and it should have been special for the girls,win or lose.No I didnt play soccer as a youth growing up,but Ive always been supportive of my daughter and her teammates.So it takes committment from the coach too,not just show up at game time!! Plus the game plan he had was to pack the defense back,and hope for a breakaway.One player up top isnt going to get too many scoring chances.I wasnt very impressed with the gameplan,or the lack of a gameplan!!But what do you do?You cant second guess the coach.I even heard the u18(pierce) coach doubt his team would win any games at regionals.Excuse me, but is it asking too much to just be positive and give encouragement.I was under the impression we were going to Baton Rouge to win it,not just be in it!!So you can talk about costs,fees,uniforms,whatever,but it really comes down to how the girls and parents are treated by the coaches and the parents.Everybody thinks their daughter is the best,and thats all good.Cesa has provided nice facilities,great competition,and friendships,they are still along way from being perfect and that starts at the top!!Its a no brainer treat people the way you want to be treated , and we will all get along better.
Relax...breathe,then bust it!!
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cockdaddy, you must be one of the "outoftowners" who abandoned their former team for the grandeaur of playing for the Upstate Red. If you are, hope you are and have enjoyed all the interstate time. I disagree with your "slam" of Patriot's daughter. Don't do that!
#1) She is a very good player who is working hard and enjoying her sport.
#2) She is a good teammate on any team she has been on and it does take "A TEAM" to be successful in any endeavor.
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I'm back. Okay. I said a turnover is good because I know the girls on the premier team and talk with them a lot during high school season and knew the ones whose heart didn't seem to be in it. I felt that would translate onto the field.So I'm glad they are doing something they feel is right for them. Nothing worse then parents pushing them out there. The girls who are leaving have played since they were 6. A break works wonders. I did consider moving leagues because at the time i did not feel that CESA was going to field a competative team at the challenge level since people were dropping; but when I found out that they were going to have one team I was comfortable. I don't know where she would have played if everyone would have stayed. Don't care. She would be playing. The girls who left for the other league are going to have a strong team and hope we get to see them but I'm am not the guy who is going to have my daughter drive 45 min to practice. Other kids can do it but not when there is a league in my back yard; its not necessary. When CESA started to expand I knew it would bring hard feelings and losing a spot to someone out of town is not fun. As far as money. Yep. Too much. But this is her last push and it may help her get into a college she likes. I'm not looking for soccer money, there is none. But it could be a benefit when the schools are deciding.
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What an idiotic remark. I hope trashing a young lady makes you feel good about yourself. Go crawl back under your rock.
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I am sorry Giggs but where do you get that I am trashing the young lady. My comment plainly meant that if so many girls hadn't left, that the CLUB would have just replaced the two that went to college with two out of town players and that most likely the local girls would be left on the challenge team as was the case several times over the last 3-4 years!!!
The fact is Katie is a good player but she is local and the CLUB has shown a tendacy to add out of town players first!! Odds are she would have been left on the challenge team in lieu of these out of towners!!
Lots of players left for different reasons and I am sure some stayed for lots of reasons.
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utd4life. Did you get sorted out? I think Delta helped you out with your answers. The club paid for training fees and coaches expenses to ECNL and PL weekends- gas, food, and lodging.
And I think this question has been asked before but no one has answered it. How did CESA make money from being in a league that cost them money. Maybe the club thought this was a worthwhile league to be in for their players because they got no financial gain from it. The ECNL is going to be a league that the best clubs are in.
Giggs, you're right. What a mean spirited comment. Rationailze all you want cock daddy but you own that now.
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And I think this question has been asked before but no one has answered it. How did CESA make money from being in a league that cost them money. Maybe the club thought this was a worthwhile league to be in for their players because they got no financial gain from it.
Or, this was the only way to get the members to 'buy' into it!!
PS: $300 - $500K annual profit allows one (club) to make these kinds of decisions.
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delta dog,its great that you are happy with the costs,training,travel,etc that cesa provides for your daughters.
Transplant, I never said I was "happy" with the costs, training (or lack of), travel, etc., far from it. However, if we're going to attack costs let's be accurate in what those costs covered. Do I think a SC R3PLE team needs to fly half way across the country to find worthy competition? No way. Would I care so much about making those trips if the costs were being covered by corporate sponsors... probably not. (Although I can't say I'll welcome having a sponsor's phone number plastered on the front of the jersey.  )
Am I tired of shagging balls in parking lots during warmups, because our kids don't get the technical training that allows them to put more than 2 out of 10 shots on frame from 18 yards? Absolutely. Do I lose tooth enamel, when after a season of training the club decides to offer a striker camp to fix the problem... at another $125 per player? Now THAT'S a no-brainer.
Do I think coaching conflicts are created by assigning more than one Premier team to a coach? Depends on how the teams are assigned, but generally yes. Should U-17 and U-18 players be able to handle the responsibility of preparing themselves for a game without a coach holding their hands 24 hours a day? Of course. If not by that age, then when?
As you said, gameplans are going to be what they are, and if you asked parents of 15 players for a gameplan prior to each game you'll end up with at least 16 including the one that's going to be used... the coach's. Did my older daughter have a problem with Pearse's evaluation of the prospects for a team carrying 12 players to regionals... no. She's 18 and didn't need a "rose tinted" view from her coach for motivation. Did Pearse "throw in the towel" as a coach, or did the team let an honest assessment of propects for advancement stop them from leaving everything on the field trying to win? Not hardly. Would I be happy for either of my daughters to play on another team coached by Pearse Tormey? In a heart beat. BTW, I stopped drinking Kool-Aid over 40 years ago, so let's not go there. (Well, except for some concoctions in college, so let's say 35 years ago.)
Do I think my daughters love having the opportunity to play with your daughter and others on their teams even in the face of club "imperfections" and MY frustrations? There I have no doubts. That's why the younger is planning on playing with the '92 team again. Will she have a problem with that committment given the pending schedules? In other words, do I think the 92's are over-committed this Fall? No. Will I probably be frustrated during the year by what I think the club should or shouldn't be doing? Of course, I'm a parent. Do I wish the club should be somewhat responsive to parents' input either individually or as a group? Nirvana. But, it's my daughter's game, and if she's good with it all (and I can survive the costs) then count her "in".
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Thanks Kwon, i did get it sorted out Maybe you know the answer to this one? Since ECNL is going to be a league the best clubs are in, what is cesa going to do once ECNL won't let their teams partcipate in the state cup in the near future? How are they going to justify no more soccer balls added to the website?
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Careful, utd4life. ECNL? I could go on for books.
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Here's a great CESA committment story. I know a girl who used to play on what is now the current CESA girls u18 premier team. When she was playing CESA u16 premier she experienced a season ending knee injury. She worked her way back, playing through pain for the CESA u17 challenge team with hopes of making u18 premier team this year. This spring her parents and her approached CESA about attending PDA in NJ with the current u18 premier team because she still had hopes of playing college soccer, and knowing the team was short on players. PDA is a college showcase event . CESA with their awesome commitment track record to their Club members goes and picks up a non CESA player from Charlotte and takes her instead of the player and parents who have committed their children to CESA over the past several years. Fortunately, the girl I'm talking about received a soccer scholarship. And you wonder why CESA gets these bad posts???
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I know the girl you're talking about, she's a friend of my daughter. We're happy to see she will be playing Premier League once again this Fall and wish her and her team the best of luck for a successful season. I agree, not including her and some of the other members of the Challenge Team in the ECNL events was a mistake by the club.
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WOW! Just saw the new CESA jersey. Asking the players to wear those (actually, asking players to PAY to wear those)may really beg the question, "Have Club Soccer commitments gone too far for our kids?" Reminds me of the trucking company logo worn by Costner in "Tin Cup".
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you right cockdaddy. No offense taken as well as excuse any comments I made. I think you made a great choice for your daughter. Had current players remained mine would have probably stayed on challenge. You know how tryouts go. Girls try and the coaches are out. Throw a ball on the field
and let the 22 girls go after it. Great way to conduct try outs.I remember when they use to actully run drills and judge the players. Those were the days.Getting back on premier is like applying to Clemson. If you want your child to go to Clemson you have to make Harvard grades to beat the out of state applicants. I guess thats why they made bridge schools.To be the man you got to beat the man. I wish there would have been a meeting before tryouts to discuss options. Playing challenge would have been fine if they would let some play in some ENCL games. Maybe the girls would have stayed. Thats all the girls wanted was a chance to compete at a higher level once in a while. Also I understand by mixing various players with various games might not make a strong team. But at least I fiqured out how to pay for it. Signed up for free lunch at middle and high school. its a wash.
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You can't be serious, who cares about soccer scholarships ? from all the disgruntled parents posting, sounds like lots are pissed off about lack of scholarships. BTW, the 92 premier girls were a heck of a team and very fun to watch over the years. I have no doubt that everyone of the girls on the 2009-2010 team will be successful in life with or without soccer. I wish all the new players on the 2010-2011 team, much success. And any CESA player who left to play for another club, I wish you success however your in for a good old beating when CESA comes to town
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Sorry cockdaddy, I misunderstood your statements. With all the comments, I wonder if "the boys" will understand some of the disgruntled sentiment.
I tried to talk to them about many of the concerns throughout this thread once, they did not care, nor would they listen.
The parents do not need to be running the club, but they do not need to be run over by the club either.
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For my last post till high school when the smack talk begins I would like to end on a positive note. For anyone thinking of playing club and your a child has a passion for the game. Do it. Would not trade the last 8 years for anything. The cities, the people and friendships that were formed, screaming at the refs, not being asked to drive a van(inside joke), arguing which team played dirtier. Its all good. My daughter enjoyed playing for all the different coaches and they have always been fair to her. Once you get past selection time its great. I will miss watching her play
as well as some of the other kids. I guess the late lesson learned would be don't be the parent who causes your child not to make a team. Fight for her but in the end its her decision. if you think soccer parents are passionate try coaching little league baseball. I don't think I'm allowed back on the field to this day. Allstar selecton puts soccer team slections to shame. Never knew there was so many Hank Aarons out there until I was informed by the parents.
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Patriot:
the smack talk starts the minute you roll into FL to play PV and Boca, buckle your chin strap and hang on, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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Well said Patriot. With all the CESA U18 dirty laundary that has been posted and not to scare away any new members, I'd like to give some positive things. Gdawgs is not 100% right on the scholarships. There are several girls on the team who have fully recouped their cost at CESA on scholarships and the coaches were helpful in the process, you just had to ask. CESA has held college showcases open to all SC athletes in hopes of bringing visibility to SC. CESA just had a team training camp for four days at the cost of a mere $100 with college coaches from Florida State, Furman, Wofford, Clemson, etc. doing training sessions giving premier players down to classic players exposure to college soccer. CESA has developed some top notch playing fields at two locations which are a credit to Greenville and helps bring money into the area with being able to host some big tournaments. CESA brought in the National Mexican team last year and the South Korean national team which provided exposure to the kids they likely would have never gotten without the contacts/relations of the club. They do a drive to collect and send different items like old cleats to underprivledge areas. Soccer training fees scholarships are available to not only premier players but classic players. They bring an experienced medical trainer to tournaments to insure proper care of their athletes. Their athletes/teams are starting to get recognition on a national scale. So like every club there are negatives but there are also a lot of positives which don't seem to make the forums.
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Patriot:
the smack talk starts the minute you roll into FL to play PV and Boca, buckle your chin strap and hang on, you ain't seen nothing yet.
sincere advice... get the iPOD for Boca.
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Sorry Scwame, even though this thread has nothing to do about scholarships and more about the financial beating you can take from a club like CESA. Give us some examples of what the 15 players for the CESA u18 got. I didn't know players and parents discussed what their child received in the form of scholarships. We all know though that there are only 12 scholarships available for a college team of 25-30 players, so explain.
And it's not dirty laundry, it's the truth finally coming out about CESA and how their staff treats it's members. You should know this more than anyone.
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Don't know where the 12 scholarships for 25-30 players comes from. My understanding is the NCAA limits the amount of scholarship money per school to the equivalent of 14.9 full scholarships regardless of roster size. That given, the actual amount available is still dependent upon what the school can afford to offer the team for its budget. Can someone clarify?
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Women's D1 12 D2 9.9
Men's D1 9.9 D2 9
Those are the maximum numbers of "equivalent" full soccer scholarships per year, per program, allowed by the NCAA. A given school may fund all or part of that maximum number.
The available scholarships can be divided among the players however the school wishes, but the maximum equivalent number can't be exceeded. So, for example, a school could give 12 ladies a full ride, 18 a 2/3 ride, 24 a half ride, or any other variation it wants.
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This paragraph was taken from "College Sports Scholarships"
"Not all athletic scholarships are full ride like football and basketball, so called "head count sports"; most are classed as "equivalency sports', like soccer. Put simply this means that coaches can" share" their allocation between a larger number of players.
This is good news for the players. If we take women's soccer as an example we see that a coach can divide the "12" scholarships between a larger number of soccer players. Say 25 partial scholarships instead of 12 full ride.
The NCAA allows each division 1 soccer program 9.9 scholarships for men and 12 for women. In division 2 the ratio is 9 for men and 9.9 for women. If you are good enough of course then a full ride soccer scholarship is always on the cards."
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
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Goal
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thanks for the clarification.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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Posts: 263 |
Sweet, that doesn't hold a candle for any of these girls compared to playing for their high school, beating their arch rivals, winning their region, making the playoffs, playing for State, winning State. Doesn't come close, just ask any who have experienced any of those elements.Playing before their peers, teachers, parents and friends- representing their school.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Goal
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Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 132
goal kick
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goal kick
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Cheers to that!! And it is actually fun for the girls as well...how many times did they just get to laugh at themselves for doing something they weren't supposed to! Those times will only be good memories!
Relax...breathe,then bust it!!
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 90
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 90 |
Does anyone know how the buckeyes will be in football this year?
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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Posts: 263 |
I am actually going to pay tribute to Club. Good Club play actually helps to have better High School play. And the players know that. What concerns me is Club, in particular with this ECNL schedule, now Club is lasting year round and actually at time conflicting with High School schedules. Can you imagine if a High School team had something going on during Club season and the players chose the High School over Club. Those Club directors would go crazy. The two (Club and High School) should have enough respect for the players and each other to totally avoid this. There should not even be Clubs practicing during the High School season. The players get more than enough play during that time and yes they do need time off.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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goal
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goal
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Quote:
Sweet, that doesn't hold a candle for any of these girls compared to playing for their high school, beating their arch rivals, winning their region, making the playoffs, playing for State, winning State. Doesn't come close, just ask any who have experienced any of those elements.Playing before their peers, teachers, parents and friends- representing their school.
Just like HS doesn't hold a candle to playing College soccer, playing your arch rival before your peers, teachers, parents and friends watching your goal replayed on the big screen, representing your school and conference and being interviewed by FSC all the while having it paid for because of what you accomplished playing club soccer.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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corner kick
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OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Sorry Sweet, I think Bomber has you on this one. You can go with the college being paid for argument, but excitement, attendance stats you lose. Most D1 womens soccer programs don't draw very well, usually an average of around 500 spectators for d1 game, around 200-250 for smaller D1's. You need to attend a Mauldin- Dorman womens game, or a Mauldin- Riverside womens game. They out draw D1 colleges. I believe I read the D2,D3 and D4 SC womens state championship games in Columbia last year drew between 3500 and 4000 fans. That's about the same amount of fans that attended Wake Forest-South Carolina final 4 last year in Texas, and they pulled a large group of club players in to the seats because of the final four showcase being held, if they didn't have a club tournament down there at the same time the attendance would have been less. And for watching womens soccer on the big screen, i guess i don't get that many channels in my home. I have seen Tennessee- Uconn womens basketball on the big screen and Texas- Michigan womens softball on the big screen but have never seen womens college soccer on the tube period. This is why there are only 12 scholarships available for womens soccer annually, they just do not draw enough revenue to the school. But congrats if your player got everything paid for in college, and I hope you get to go and enjoy all of their games, and look on the bright side, you won't have to take a folding chair. Have a good evening.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
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OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
I stand corrected on the SC- Wake game. It was a sweet 16 game not the final four, but I think you get the picture.Have a good one.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
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world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
gbdawgs,
Just to clarify USC-Wake, it was a Sweet 16. But it wasn't played in TX before a large group of club players in the seats due to a showcase tournament.
The match was at virtually sold-out Stone Stadium, in front of 4,000+ passionate South Carolina fans.....not a "captive audience" as you indicate above.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
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OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
i posted the correction above, sorry.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
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coach
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Quote:
gbdawgs,
Just to clarify USC-Wake, it was a Sweet 16. But it wasn't played in TX before a large group of club players in the seats due to a showcase tournament.
The match was at virtually sold-out Stone Stadium, in front of 4,000+ passionate South Carolina fans.....not a "captive audience" as you indicate above.
But beyond that, it's all accurate, right?
A lot - and I mean a lot - of bitterness here...
I miss the days I had time to engage in this fully. But here are some things to note - kind of randomly...
By the way - last I checked, the number of women scholarships was 14 (12's the old number.) Given it went up by over 10%, does that mean that there's a 10%+ increase in revenue at the gate - since scholarships are causally related to revenue? Not to my knowledge...
Comparing an "average" college game to a cross-town rivalry might be just a bit...I don't know...biased? Compare your cross-town rivalry games to Clemson/Carolina women soccer games. I've been to state championships - and the Clemson/Carolina games beat them hands down. (Plus...the referees don't allow 12 players on the field. )
Winning an SEC championship might be by some to be perceived as a viable consolation prize to winning a state championship. Wouldn't know - my kid never won a state championship...just putting it out there since there's a comparison of high school and college...
CESA has some good points and bad points (I think it needs to step up to a much larger recreation base than it has today, for example, and I've publicly noted that.) At the same time, it pioneered offering SC kids choice in terms of competitive programs. For kids that are want to play at the highest level, it was always a team-based hit or miss proposition before that. That's why I tend to praise the club...
The phenomenon of U18 losing players has occurred since I was first involved in club soccer years ago. Some players realize their dreams and are recruited at U17; but by U18 a lot of players are realizing that they aren't going to get to play where they want to and drop back/out. Nothing wrong with that decision...
The entire equating of scholarships with club soccer is interesting. Anyone paying for their child to play club soccer in hopes of a positive financial ROI (Return On Investment) is foolish. At the same time, I've paid for a lot of things with respect to my children in which I measured the ROI beyond that associated with the financial. To each his own...
Whenever someone posts about the plucky kid who has been with a club for years and didn't get a chance to play in the big tournament so they could be seen by the college coach and get the big break - I can't help but sigh. What you ignore is the other kid on the team who has been just on the bubble with a college coach and who needs a great showing to break on through. I think that club coaches have as much responsibility to that kid - and the other kids on the premier teams - as they do the plucky one. When my child was involved in club soccer, I thought that part of what I paid for was the coaches doing the best thing for their TEAM - not for each individual hard-luck case. In fact, that's what I thought I got from CESA - a club focused on a TEAM and not a lot of individual parents dictating direction based on their individual child.
I have a TiVo full of Carolina women soccer games...but I'm probably biased toward finding them on television...
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Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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Posts: 263 |
Sweet, you really need to get in the real world. That is a ridiculous comparison. So let's see, college does not compare to the World Cup. Wow, imagine that.
Most good high school soccer team games, have more fans than many colleges. I saw an Alabama women's soccer game on cable last year. What a beautiful facility, but no one was there. I have been to several Clemson, men's and women's games, really not much of a crowd. There is something to be said about the pride and passion of high school athletics. Playing cross-town teams, the pride of the players, coaches, parents and fans. It can't be beat.
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Posts: 1,457
Hat-Trick
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Hat-Trick
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1- I think that the topic is way of subject now
2- To Bomber, it is not a good comparison. The emotions of the game (the frustration) is what makes a worthy match. If you are emotianlly invested (i.e. your kid is playing) you would beieve it to be the best time. The size of the crowd in HS soccer games is made up mostly of family with some HS having more student support than others
I have been to many games on all 3 levels of which we speak, frankly I have seen absolutely fantastic club games (both in season and state cup), have seen great HS games and college games. In almost every case I had emotional involvement because my kids were playing
In fact when Landon Donovan scored the goal against Algeria I was in a computer room in Europe (suffering via internet feed) and went absolutely crazy - the only american in the group (much to the dismay of the trainer at the time and to many chuckles from my peers). Luckily it was understood and did not suffer any "penalty" for it. ....But the point is a big crowd makes a fantastic atmosphere but if you are emotionally involved, size does not matter the game has captured you.
I can honestly tell you that I have been to games in other sports at the HS level where you could have kids playing hopscotch on the field and the crowd would be the same. They were there for the social and not the game.
I prefer the emotional investment.... maybe I am a masochist as soccer is very frustrating and unforgiving.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
Sweet, that doesn't hold a candle for any of these girls compared to playing for their high school, beating their arch rivals, winning their region, making the playoffs, playing for State, winning State. Doesn't come close, just ask any who have experienced any of those elements.Playing before their peers, teachers, parents and friends- representing their school.
Just like HS doesn't hold a candle to playing College soccer, playing your arch rival before your peers, teachers, parents and friends watching your goal replayed on the big screen, representing your school and conference and being interviewed by FSC all the while having it paid for because of what you accomplished playing club soccer.
Bit of a logical fallacy to assume (or imply) that the only path to this end is through club soccer accomplishments. There is no "only" path. While quality club play can be instrumental in helping players reach their goals of playing at the same level, in most cases, the truly successful players reach their goals due to the SUM of their experiences, training, and accomplishments--not just because of one segment of them.
If we really want to do our best for our young people, HS and club proponents need to stop playing the "who's more important" game and start working together to best prepare our players.
Puts me in mind of the words of John Wooden, one of the most successful coaches in history at both the high school and collegiate levels:
"It's amazing what can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the credit."
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Very nicely put. I agree!!!!!!
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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Posts: 263 |
Well, lesson learned.
Never post something nice.
It stops the thread.
Come on boys...
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
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Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Funny how that works.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
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goal
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NO the problem is Coach Chass answered the question. As per normal. Nice stuff is just ignored.
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Posts: 640
goal
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goal
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Here I go again!
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Posts: 270
corner kick
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corner kick
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Sorry boys, everyone has been way to nice too one another, so I had to spice things up a bit ... albeit on another thread!
Besides it would be far too dull if we all agreed with one another!
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