|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
It's always been very vague on what "monthly" club/training fees are for each soccer club in the state excluding travel costs. Can we post some valuable information to the average SC soccer family of what each club charges monthly. Let's randomely use the u18 girls group as an example. What are you paying your club per month? Just put the dollar amount next to the clubs listed below. Have a great weekend.
CESA Premier
CESA Challenge
SC United FC 92 Elite
LCSC United 92 Girls White
SC United FC-MP 92 Elite
TCSC U18G Blue
Coast FA U18 Girls Red
PUFC 92 Girls Gold
SSC U18 Girls
SCUFC 92 Girls Palmetto
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Does CESA have a U18 Challenge team? I heard there were many at this age group that left the club and are now playing elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,420
World Cup
|
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,420 |
Congaree Rapid "Select" U13-U18 teams charge $495 per player for the entire fall season. That includes the following:
* 2 NIKE jerseys
* 2 NIKE shorts
* 3 NIKE socks
That price also includes the training, fields, officials, State Cup entry fee, etc. This year, there are approximately 215 players at CRSA on 12 Select teams (6 boys, 6 girls).
The CRSA Junior Academy (U9-U12) fees are $375 for the fall season, $275 in the spring. There are three JA teams this season (2 boys, 1 girls).
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
So less the uniform costs of probably around $100. The monthly club training fees are only around $100 a month for the fall season if your a u18 girl? That's good.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32 |
I think we are paying $110/month for u15 classic boys. That goes along with the $212 uniform and a couple hundred to the club this summer and maybe some to the team (startup) as well. I don't keep an exact count as the ex pays it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
CUSC U18 girls pay $400 for the fall season, which includes everything except uniform, tournament fees and travel. Our uniform package is under $100.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Monthly fee update:
CESA Premier
CESA Challenge
SC United FC 92 Elite
LCSC United 92 Girls White
SC United FC-MP 92 Elite
TCSC U18G Blue $60
Coast FA U18 Girls Red
PUFC 92 Girls Gold
SSC U18 Girls
SCUFC 92 Girls Palmetto
CUSC u18 girls $100
Congaree Rapid Select $100
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 273
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 273 |
"We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Monthly fee update:
CESA Premier
CESA Challenge
SC United FC 92 Elite $144
LCSC United 92 Girls White
SC United FC-MP 92 Elite $134
TCSC U18G Blue $60
Coast FA U18 Girls Red
PUFC 92 Girls Gold
SSC U18 Girls
SCUFC 92 Girls Palmetto $114
CUSC u18 girls $100
Congaree Rapid Select $100
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 101
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 101 |
If I interpret this correctly then it means a player for SCUFC's "Crescent" level team (3rd or 4th squad in same age group) would be the following:
U12, $450 + $175 uniform = $625
U14, $450 + $175 uniform = $625
U16, $475 + $175 uniform = $650
U18, $495 + $175 uniform = $670
That seems kind of pricey considering there are probably 36-54 players in front of you (Elite, Palmetto) for the same age groups. Would be a tough "sell" for our area here in the Pee Dee.
Is my interpretation correct? If not, please clarify. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
The Charlotte Club and SCUFC posts the costs on their website. Does CESA? I can't find it if they do.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457
Hat-Trick
|
|
Hat-Trick
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457 |
They used to
And some clubs have additional fees per team so you may not have the whole picture
LCSC
$550 not including Uniform U15 - U18
$650 U13 and 14
$450 U12 and below
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
We're just trying to get a ball park figure. usually monthly fees include club fees/training fees/ tournament fees. Is the $550 at LCSC broken out over a 4 month or 5 month period?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
The cost for the LCSC U13 was for fall and spring.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630 |
Quote:
The cost for the LCSC U13 was for fall and spring.
Does that include uniform? I imagine it does.
Victory Starts Here!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
are you saying the total cost for the year is only $550?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 351
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 351 |
If you really want to know call the clubs
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Tried that. One gave me extremely vague info. Couldn't nail them down on a cost. That's why I thought we could get the info from parents who actually cut the check and then we could post the info. Credit to the clubs who post it on their website before the season starts, I guess they don't have anything to hide.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457
Hat-Trick
|
|
Hat-Trick
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457 |
ALl LCSC fees shown do not include uniform
ALL fees are technically for a year August - July for every club as far as I know and you can divide it by whatever # of months as long as it is equal to all,
Since the season starts in August and ends in December for the U15 and up you can technically say it is 5 months for all clubs
And as with most clubs... it excludes tournament fees.
Last edited by futbol(soccer); 08/23/10 12:40 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Monthly fee update:
CESA Premier
CESA Challenge
SC United FC 92 Elite $144
LCSC United 92 Girls White $110
SC United FC-MP 92 Elite $134
TCSC U18G Blue $60
Coast FA U18 Girls Red
PUFC 92 Girls Gold
SSC U18 Girls
SCUFC 92 Girls Palmetto $114
CUSC u18 girls $100
Congaree Rapid Select $100
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
Futbol is correct, that does not include uniforms. But the figure is $650, not tournament related costs, but it is for Fall and Spring seasons (U13).
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Monthly fee update u18 girls:
CESA Premier $233
CESA Challenge
SC United FC 92 Elite $144
LCSC United 92 Girls White $110
SC United FC-MP 92 Elite $134
TCSC U18G Blue $60
Coast FA U18 Girls Red
PUFC 92 Girls Gold
SSC U18 Girls
SCUFC 92 Girls Palmetto $114
CUSC u18 girls $100
Congaree Rapid Select $100
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
$233? Really?
One would expect it to be higher given all that they participate in, but are you sure we are comparing apples to apples here?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 209
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 209 |
Cesa 233 month because playing both leagues. No challenge team
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 209
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 209 |
There was a nice up front fee of 300.00 and 212.00 for the uniforms .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
I'm sure most of these numbers are ballpark figures. But it will give a parent a good idea of what costs will be when picking a club. Patriot: What's the monthly fee for a CESA u18 player who only plays in challenge games?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 67
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 67 |
Here is the kicker
Fall Season Only $390.00 Training + $212.00 Uniform Cost no matter the age for Classic level at CESA
$212.00 for new uniforms for U-18 fall season(only) of usage
Way to send out the kids that have paid thier dues over the years I am glad we did not try-out at club this year my child wanted to enjoy senior year
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Why is it that CESA's uniforms always cost more than any other club and where did the $1.5 million in Greenville County Tax money go? Has this been itemized anywhere?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678 |
Quote:
Why is it that CESA's uniforms always cost more than any other club and where did the $1.5 million in Greenville County Tax money go? Has this been itemized anywhere?
That's like trying to compare a Honda to a Mercedes. CESA has the top of the line Adidas kits with training gear. CESA makes zero money off any of the uniforms sold. Most clubs go for the cheapest line a company has. Also ask the kids that wear the gear they love the nice stuff.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
CESA makes zero money off any of the uniforms sold.
Sweet, you are a funny guy - but this might just be your best one yet!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678 |
Quote:
Quote:
CESA makes zero money off any of the uniforms sold.
Sweet, you are a funny guy - but this might just be your best one yet!
RECCOS:
Please tell me how much CESA makes on each uniform sold?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
RECCOS:
Please tell me how much CESA makes on each uniform sold?
You tell me what they (CESA) pay for each item and we can then play ball ...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 678 |
A local soccer store (Lloyds) in Greenville and Mt. Pleasant sell the uniforms to the players from CESA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
A local soccer store (Lloyds) in Greenville and Mt. Pleasant sell the uniforms to the players from CESA.
Like I said, you are a funny guy!
So no prices then?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 283
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 283 |
http://www.carolinaelitesc.com/select_forms.aspxLink to Uniform Player Order Form...for prices charged by Lloyds.
Fletch: It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am NOT a big man.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
bench
|
|
bench
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12 |
Yeah that is interesting...because wholesale from Addidas the shorts are in the $10-12 range and you would think since Addidas is in CESA's backyard they would get a better deal with the amount they are ordering?? I think someone is getting a kick back somewhere. And as for quality of the uniform...I beg to differ there...have had to buy several pairs of shorts due to them almost tearing in two.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
I have no idea what kind of deal CESA has with Lloyd's, but Lloyd's in Mt. Pleasant also supplies uniforms for our CUSC players as well as others. I can only speak with certainty about our own arrangement, but our players' order forms and money go directly to Lloyd's...the uniforms are sold directly to the players. The club does not purchase uniforms from Lloyd's and then resell them to players. In my experience, Lloyd's has always done us right on what we get.
Of course, each club gets to decide what variety of uniforms to pick for its teams; the high-end kits are going to cost much more than the economy-level ones, no matter where you get them. Each club has to decide where the balance is between how upscale they want their uniforms and how much their player base is willing/able to pay.
I did think it was interesting that the CESA order form didn't list the specific type of Adidas uniform; ours always have. I was going to try to illustrate that Lloyd's consistently comes in well under prices from Eurosport, for example...but without the specifics, it's hard to pull a comparison of prices for that particular kit.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 283
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 283 |
Coach, I think they still do come in under Eurosport. I am not sure which uniform it is either. The question was asked...prices? It is out there for all to see on the site. I was thinking it was Condivo but not 100% certain.
Not sure why Adidas products are "tearing in two". Must be the other team tugging on them. Maybe you can get the other team to reimburse for that.
Fletch: It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am NOT a big man.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Sweet, take a look at the CESA financials. I believe it shows $43,000 in profit from apparel sales.
It probably also shows your salary, as you've got to be on their payroll.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541 |
Irritable Male Syndrome, sufferers are colloquially known as 'grumpy old men' - lol
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Sweet, take a look at the CESA financials. I believe it shows $43,000 in profit from apparel sales.
It probably also shows your salary, as you've got to be on their payroll.
Just in the interest of objectivity, does "apparel" in this case include uniforms? Usually those are listed separately...I can see "apparel" profits coming from CESA-licensed-and-labeled shirts, sweats, hoodies, jackets, caps, etc. adding up pretty quickly even if the uniforms are direct-buy at no profit to the club. Our high school team makes some pretty good fundraising money that way; I can only imagine the non-uniform-related merchandising sales from a club that size.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
As I said, if I read it correctly.
It could be other Club apparel, but it could be from uniform sales.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
What me grumpy?
Naaaaaaa....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Bomber go easy on CESA about the Greenville County Tax money. I'm sure any Greenville county taxpayer can go to Wenwood or MESA and throw the football around, play catch, have a picnic, work on the wedge game, have a family reunion, have a concert, have a tent revival, take the dog for a run, have a school field trip any time they want because those gates at those 2 places are aways open are they not. It's crazy to think that our greenville county council would give one club 1.5 mill and leave all none soccer family tax payers out of the loop. That would be just wrong on councils part.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14
bench
|
|
bench
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14 |
Regarding the question raised about Greenville County’s support of CESA: Other than the field construction does Greenville county provide CESA with financial support? Does CESA subsidize it’s entities located outside of Greenville County? If both are true one could argue that Greenville’s tax dollars are being diverted outside of Greenville County.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
I asked my player if she liked the quality of the CESA gear she has worn the past several years... She answered, HUH!!! I said nevermind honey.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
|
|
coach
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
gbdawgs: I'm a little confused. In late June you registered on this message board. In early July you had a friend who had a child playing at CESA. In mid July you had a family member who was considering playing at CESA. Now with this last post you have a player who has worn CESA gear for several years.
You may want to clear this up - because an ignorant reader might get the wrong impression. You don't want anyone to think that you're simply angry at CESA for something related to your daughter - which I'm sure in no way is true. You want to make sure that you're perceived as a disinterested third-party who is simply getting to the heart of some vague rumors that you've heard.
gbdawgs (7/2/2010): I talked to a friend who's child is playing for a big club in the upstate.
gbdawgs (7/8/2010): The only reason I brought this up is that my upstate friend said that the u18 girls at CESA lost over 25 players out of about 40-45 in the u18 girls pool.
gbdawgs (7/9/2010): A friend of mine in Greenville, SC who has a daughter that plays on a girls premier club team up there said this past year they've had to travel by air to NJ, Texas, Seattle also have had to car travel to La. once, Fla twice.
gbdawgs (7/14/2010): The only reason I brought this up is that my upstate friend said that the u18 girls at CESA lost over 25 players out of about 40-45 in the u18 girls pool.
gbdawgs (7/15/2010): I must confess. I have a family member in the upstate who is contemplating playing club soccer at the travel level. The family was all gung ho on doing it, but have heard unfavorable things the past couple of weeks about costs and commitment to this club. This is no reflection on any specific club or area. Were just trying to help her make a decision because she also plays basketball and would like to do that at a competitive level as well. A friend of ours told us get info from both sides, which we have already received from the club. My friend told me about this website and said I would get a more objective view because parents frequent this site. Your input is much appreciated.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Throw In
|
|
Throw In
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 83 |
I am having a hard time understanding the problem here. If feel that you & your child are not getting your money's worth at your current club, then find another club. Fees are too high? Then find a club with cheaper fees. Uniforms are too expensive? Then find a club with cheaper uniforms.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Mom, last time I checked, we still have free speech in this country and I believe this message board is an open free speech forum and I also believe when you sign up at a soccer club and pay them money that makes you their customer. And you should know how a customer likes to be treated. At least I hope you do.
That said, obviously what you read among these pages shows some dislike of some of the practices of some soccer clubs to their customers. Perhaps there is a lack of competition at certain levels of soccer in a community.
Bottom line is- gbdawgs has the right to express his/her opinion and create interesting thought and discussion regarding various soccer issues.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Good idea about the various Greenville complexes.
Maybe Sweetfeet could come up and organize a Polo tournament at one of the facilities.
I believe he knows a lot about that sport and it would surely bring a big crowd, fill up the hotels, and all the fine dining restaurants in the Upstate. Heck, that crowd would probably buy some BMW's and other high dollar luxury vehicles, maybe some lake property, big-time economic impact.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Throw In
|
|
Throw In
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 83 |
Hmmm... I wasn't aware that I was infringing on anyone's right to speak their mind. Just throwing in my own $.02.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Shibumi: You caught me.I lied, I've had a child, at one time 2 who played for St Giles, CESA for the last 9 years. Our family over those years has between $25,000-$30,000 wrapped up in the CESA club. Our child played at the top level every year. For the past few years we were told every year at the beginning of the season what the costs were going to be, and every year, during and at the end of the year the club kept coming back for more money. I felt a club of this size would know before the season started what costs would be, but this was never the case. (CESA is one of the few who don't post this info on their website)I honestly think they knew what costs would be, but was afraid to let their customers know in advance, because they did not want any fallout. Actually the fallout did happen this year when the u18 girls pool dropped from around 45 players to 19. Our daughter was one of the fallout. You would think being in the club for that many years the DOC would have better communication with their customers. I have never met one of the owners, i had met the other owner once once over comments i made about one of his coaches losing the confidence of the players on our team, he told me if i didn't like it to go to Spartanburg and play for that Carolina futbol club. I also had a phone call with them, our daughter had a season ending injury at the beginning of a fall season, the doc could not figure out why i wouldn't pay the remainder of the fall season fees. Why would i pay fees for something were not getting.
There's nothing wrong with posting what the clubs charge, or what some of the parents experiences have been regarding the clubs. I always felt dealing with CESA they had something to hide. Hopefully this information will give parents with younger children a perspective on what each club is about.
Regarding you, i took the liberty of reading the history of your posts, either your drinking the CESA koolaid, you work for CESA, or you are CESA, but this is an open forum website and we can enjoy the freedom to post. Truthfully I wouldn't post this if my child still played for CESA, I would have to worry about the ramifications that they might throw my daughter out of the club. Shibumi if you had a good experience with CESA, fine. We did not.
Thats the story about gbdawgs.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
Quote:
It's crazy to think that our greenville county council would give one club 1.5 mill and leave all none soccer family tax payers out of the loop. That would be just wrong on councils part.
I believe a club has to have minimum 16 fields at a location to be eligible to host a Southern Regional tournament. My understanding is that a Southern Regional tournament generates around 7 mill in business for the host community. The 2012 tournament will be held at MeSA. Maybe, just a thought, County Council considers a potential 5.5 mill ROI for local businesses as one way of keeping all non soccer family taxpayers IN the "loop".
For the sake of my daughters' ankles, I would appreciate you work on the wedges somewhere other than the fields. 
Last edited by DeltaDog; 08/25/10 08:28 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Dog: Correct me if I'm wrong.I thought you said in a previous post that CESA was not competing in the southern regionals in Greenville because they will be in ECNL only at that time?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
I believe I said it would be ironic that given the new ECNL rule restricting ECNL teams from participating in State Cups the CESA teams participating in ECNL could be kept out of the most prestigious tournament the club has ever hosted. Of course, there is no guarantee that any teams from CESA would qualify as state champions even without participation in ECNL. (ECNL has no impact on participation on the boy's side.)
That said, what has any CESA team's qualification for the tournament got to do with the county's potential 5.5 mill ROI from CESA hosting the tournament?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
Actually, the ROI may be greater if CESA teams are not participating due to other SC teams as state champions having to book additional rooms.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
Now that I think about it, that's 5.5 mill ROI for the one tournament. CESA annually hosts 3 tournaments (CESA Classic, Fall Challenge and Spring Challenge) all of which generate additional business adding to the county's ROI.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Dog: Where specifically does the 5.5 million go. I assume it's from hospitality taxes, but where is the 5.5 million going? You said all taxpayers benefit from it. Does it go in the county's general fund, schools, infrastructure, police, fire, county salaries,reduction in county tax, what? Tell us how it benefits all greenville county taxpayers?
By the way were way off of what the original post. What's your CESA u18 girl challenge players paying per month.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
1... Start here... http://greenvillerec.com/athletics-and-sports/tournaments , then contact either the Greenville Convention and Visitor's Bureau (perhaps the guy in the video) or maybe the Sports Tourism Manager or maybe just an accountant to find out how $7 mill in tourism impacts the county taxpayers and how it may (or may not) justify the $1.5 mill investment. BTW, at the website I also noticed the county invested county dollars in an equestrian center, so maybe you can talk them into letting you and Sweet Feet holding the polo match there instead of MeSA. 2... "...I guess the real irony of the "no state cup" rule will be that the year it is implemented, 2011-2012, will be just in time to restrict the CESA teams from participating in the Southern Regionals held at CESA. Bummer...." "...it would be ironic that given the new ECNL rule restricting ECNL teams from participating in State Cups the CESA teams participating in ECNL could be kept out of the most prestigious tournament the club has ever hosted...." You're right. Way off. My mistake. 3... My understanding is all players on the CESA U-18 roster pay the same in club fees (registration, training, etc.), then depending on the events in which a player participates the team fees may vary. I believe my daughter will be playing both the premier and challenge schedules and probably 3 or 4 of the 5 tournaments. We have one team with a roster used as a pool for participation in a variety of events. I believe the basic monthly club fee is $133 and change and is standard for each player. It's the other team fees (tournament registrations, coach's travel expenses, etc.) where you start dividing by the number of players participating that fuels the variations.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
bench
|
|
bench
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7 |
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it is difficult to take you seriously when you admit to lying in your posts.
It also caught my attention that you refused to pay for the rest of the season after your child was injured. I have never been associated with CESA, but every other club I have been associated with requires you to sign a contract for either the season or the entire year.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
|
|
coach
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
>>[gbdawgs] Regarding you, i took the liberty of reading the history of your posts, either your drinking the CESA koolaid, you work for CESA, or you are CESA, but this is an open forum website and we can enjoy the freedom to post.<<
I don't get a chance to get on the message board as much as I used to when my daughter played club and high school, and I probably wouldn't have noticed but I have a home in Lexington from where your posts are theoretically from and that sparked my interest.
My name is Mark Campbell. Most of the my posts on this message board were made with that username; I switched at a certain point - but have not and am not trying to hide my identity. I've been open about my involvement with CESA. In the past my daughter played at CESA - has not played club for more than two years now - I don't have any children that aren't in college now - and have no relatives playing at CESA either. I think it's been about two years since I spoke to anyone at CESA.
I don't dispute the fact that this is an open forum and everyone has the right to post - as you and I are doing so now. I don't even dispute the right to attempt to mislead people on this message board regarding your identity or your underlying motivations. What I'd recommend - and I mean this respectfully - is that if you're going to attempt to mislead people regarding your intentions and motives that you do so more carefully.
What's my opinion on the pretty obvious complaint that seemingly led to this thread's creation? I think CESA is priced higher than most clubs. Then again, I think that buying a Porsche is different than buying a Chevy - or a Yugo. I like the fact that there are options for kids - both high-priced options and low-priced options. (Note: I've said this so many times on this message board that even I'm bored saying it!) I don't think CESA is for everyone - just as I don't think that other clubs are for everyone.
Is CESA worth the money? Absolutely debatable question. I would think that this depends on your child's goals and on your financial situation. As I noted earlier, I think anyone hoping for a financial return on investment in playing club soccer is foolish. But in terms of the car analogy above - today, I personally don't want or need a Porsche - I'm okay with my truck. So paying for a Porsche would be a waste of money. But I have a friend who spent about $150K for a Porsche - and he gets a lot of enjoyment from it. While I don't mind stating I don't need a Porsche - I don't find myself omniscient to the point of being able to argue that all Porsche buyers are idiots. But that's just me.
Look - I really do think that as a disgruntled former customer/patron/member of CESA you have a right to complain. I just think that you have more - not less - credibility when you do so from an open and honest position.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
|
|
world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
That pretty much sums up the whole club soccer experience, I don't think it has ever been stated any better than this.
Define what you want to get out of it and then investigate and pursue your options. Cafeteria menu-like pricing.
Remember, a child's level of ability, passion and commitment often changes every season. The path you were investing in back at U13 might not be the path you want to invest in at U17. Doesn't mean that the parent, player or club did anything "wrong" along the way.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203 |
Quote:
Remember, a child's level of ability, passion and commitment often changes every season. The path you were investing in back at U13 might not be the path you want to invest in at U17. Doesn't mean that the parent, player or club did anything "wrong" along the way.
I totally agree. These are after all still kids and they should experience and try new things especially now when they are young and have the chance. How many adults change careers at some point in their lives? How many adults pick up new hobbies in their lives? So why do some people on this forum not get it. Just because a kid decides a particular level,team or soccer at all is not for them does that mean the kid, parent or club has been a failure or somethihg was "wrong"?
I personally know of one young lady that played soccer from a very early age. She decided her Junior year of high school she wanted to get involved with several other things and soccer was no longer as important. Her coaches and teammates were dumbfounded as she was by far one of the best players in this area. She probably bypassed a chance to play somewhere in college. The bottom line is it was for her a personal choice. The club she played for did nothing wrong, her parents did nothing wrong and she did nothing wrong and is not a failure. She enjoyed her soccer years, learned alot about teamwork, dedication, determination and herself.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Shibumi you give a fair analogy. When I began posting we were still on the fence about staying with CESA, so since I was only looking out for my child I was trying to stay under the radar, and ask some hard questions without being summoned to the Club office and getting my child thrown out of the club. When it comes to my family members I only care about them. We've had a parent in the past on our team and myself called to the office in the past about making detrimental comments to the club. After 5+ years or whenever CESA was formed we decided as a family to leave CESA, not because my daughter wanted to give up soccer, because the economic, time and travel burden got to be to much for our child and her parents. My daughter continues to play for another club, so all is good. I also have 2 usernames on this board, which so do most of my soccer friends on this board, some even have more than two. I just think if you have an issue with a club, speak out, because their not hearing it when you meet with them. I think they get a little paranoid at times when a group of people are complaining about them. If the complaints are valid I'll post and comment. Again, your correct I initially took the wrong approach. My other username is much more friendly.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 289
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 289 |
Interesting remarks here on the board lately...
First, my soccer coach friends deserve everything they make for coaching young ladies and young men. CESA is a corporation that has success. You cannot blame them for the money they are able to make. However, there are clubs out there that are growing and have success for little investment-it can be done. "But it takes a village"-H.Clinton
For Example:
Sandhills United SC $175 and that is it.
Includes two adidas uniform kits
No monthly fee
No travel expenses paid by parents for coaches.
No tournament fees
All licensed coaching staff.
The coaching staff does it for the love of the game and the kids.
I have given my own money, time, and effort and still feel I have received more than I have given. However, you cannot blame folks for trying to make a living coaching. However, we here at SUSC try to be different to reach kids that would not have the opportunity otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Have to agree with gbdawgs about one thing. You can't talk to the CESA "higherups". They don't like it and will not listen to reason. And yes, ramifications to your kid can occur. I've witnessed it first hand and seen it done to others.
That said, my kids, overall, enjoy their soccer experience. We also have enjoyed meeting many great folks along the way and had some great coaches, but also had a few "unique" ones. But that is true with any endeavor of this sort.
The guys at CESA need to think about customer service and costs. Doubt that they will, because with no real competition locally, why do you have to?
Wow, if only I could have that situation in my business!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
I am not a CESA lover by any means, but, they created the enviornment they have. If, you stay up on this blog, you see that people love them, hate them, envy them -- the whole range.
They have been succesful to the point there is not real local competition. If there was enough of the bad stuff, then, there would be some real local competition. USA and CFC were only a short drive down the road. USA wanting to be all inclusive and nice to everyone and CFC wanting to be elite (big fish, in a small pond). If there were enough haters those two groups would have grown like wild fire. We had some kids come from Greenville not liking the CESA machine. A few. Us being USA. If I look at the CFC challenge teams, several are competing with 13 players, today. I do not see a big migration that way either. Nor do I see that as very smart (13 players), but that is just me.
My simple conclusion is - that some folks are not happy so they want to complain, some drink the kool aid by the gallon, or have a tap at home. Either view is not the average CESA experince. Reality is somewhere in the middle. Always is. Always will be. The average CESA parent is not on here...
To me it is simple if you do not like the product do not buy it. Each parent makes that decision every year. It is sad people have such buyers regret after years, and years of making their own minds up.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
I believe that there is also a certain amount of naivity that plays a role in all of this ... Too many parents & polayers hanging on to unrealistic dreams!
What kills me is that everyone is chasing this college 'thing'. But is is not your fault .... You are being sold a bill of goods by those looking to take advantage of your commitment and $$$$!!
Do yourself a favor, do your research, look at where SC players are ending up. For the vast majority of players in this state, there is no need for them to even leave it (think out of state games / tournaments), as they end up playing for the college coach down the road!
College recruiting! Biggest hoax ever, and ruining the game of soccer throughout the country!
PS: Yes, I know that there are those that simply choose this path for the journey - kudos to them.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
ZM, I thought you were a CESA member?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
I think we've established that there are many different options for soccer training at many different levels. Still more options could be developed if there was a demonstrated demand for them. When people pass by other options and insist on a brand name, though, it means that demand for the brand name is high--and if the product is in higher demand then it commands a higher price.
Do I think that soccer in some places costs a lot more than it HAS to? Sure it does. But it also seems unproductive to pass on other options and then agonize over the price of the brand you insisted on.
Just a thought.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
ZM, I thought you were a CESA member?
I have purchased one year worth of CESA - with my same USA coach. Go SOLO...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
I'm afraid your analysis is faulty. My son is a freshman at Wofford. Had he not played at the level he did, in the leagues he did, for the teams he did, against the competition he did, Wofford would have signed a kid from out of state instead of him.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
bench
|
|
bench
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7 |
First and foremost, I want to congratulate your son on his accomplishments. He is obviously smart, talented and driven. None of tha following comments are in any way directed at you or your son.
As long as the kid has the desire and the parents have the money, I think it's great for a kid to pursue the highest level of competition. I do think it is importnant to make sure that the kids are playing for themselves, rather than their parents. At a minimum, I think parents should have conversations with their kids between each season to evaluate the kid's thoughts on soccer. It's also important for the kids to maintain a healthy balance so they are prepared (to paraphrase the ncaa commercial) to turn pro in something other than soccer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Soccerfan - Thanks. I agree with you, and with the general consensus that seems to have developed in this thread.
Club soccer at the higher levels can be expensive, primarily as a function of travel expenses. Bearing that expense makes sense for some, but by no means all, families. My post to which you replied was in response to Reccos' intimation that if a player ends up playing for a SC college, his having spent the extra money to play in the most competitive and expensive traveling programs was, by definition, unnecessary. That simply isn't accurate. All SC colleges recruit nationally and internationally. Our kids are competing for spots against kids from all over the country and, on occasion, the world. College coaches want players who have successfully competed against the best players and teams available - because that's who they will be competing against in college.
If I understood Reccos correctly, he/she was suggesting that a kid could just as well play his club soccer only in SC and have just as good a chance to play for a SC college. That may happen, but only very rarely.
Finally, in my experience, our club, Columbia United/South Carolina United, will make every effort to allow kids to play at the highest level their ability and desire allows. That is not to say that no one falls through the cracks - they no doubt do - but no one should assume they are financially excluded without first talking long and hard with club officials about help that may be available. I assume that to be the case at other clubs as well.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
I'm afraid your analysis is faulty. My son is a freshman at Wofford. Had he not played at the level he did, in the leagues he did, for the teams he did, against the competition he did, Wofford would have signed a kid from out of state instead of him.
I guess I should have included College Coaches in my list of people to 'blame'!!
My analysis is faulty due to your speculation?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
All you need do is look at the rosters for Wofford, Furman, CofC, Coastal, USC, Clemson, Lander... to see that all of these schools recruit nationally and internationally. If you think that the chances of any of them recruiting a SC kid who played only Classic or Challenge (with minimal to zero wider experience) is more than marginally north of 0, you're mistaken. No speculation necessary.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
bench
|
|
bench
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12 |
Not true...know of four players that were recruited from High School (one to Lander, one to Coastal and two to Francis Marion)...did not even play Club soccer!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
First, I assume you are referring to girls, not boys. I don't know any men's college coach who goes to HS games unless it is to watch a player he has already identified through club. Second, if you consider that there are probably 20 SC colleges with women's soccer, each recruiting a minimum (educated guess) of five ladies per year, I'd say four out of one hundred proves my point.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 418 |
Quote:
I don't know any men's college coach who goes to HS games unless it is to watch a player he has already identified through club.
I believe you live in your own club/ODP world. Fact is it's a lot of sources that men's coaches "find" their players. Through their own camps, working other camps, high school or club coaching contacts, ODP, all-star games, etc. There isn't one scientific way to be recruited but the more exposure against top competition goes a long way regardless if it is club or high school. There was a senior goalkeeper this past year that signed with a D1 school obviously based on his ODP or club performance because it certainly wasn't for his high school exploits!
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
Quote:
ZM, I thought you were a CESA member?
I have purchased one year worth of CESA - with my same USA coach. Go SOLO...
Isn't that like buying a Mercedes just to keep it in your garage and look at it?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
First, I assume you are referring to girls, not boys. I don't know any men's college coach who goes to HS games unless it is to watch a player he has already identified through club. Second, if you consider that there are probably 20 SC colleges with women's soccer, each recruiting a minimum (educated guess) of five ladies per year, I'd say four out of one hundred proves my point.
HD: You do realize you are debating two different points, right?
And once again just because you don't know of a player that was recruited at a HS game, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
All you need do is look at the rosters for Wofford, Furman, CofC, Coastal, USC, Clemson, Lander... to see that all of these schools recruit nationally and internationally. If you think that the chances of any of them recruiting a SC kid who played only Classic or Challenge (with minimal to zero wider experience) is more than marginally north of 0, you're mistaken. No speculation necessary.
The fact that you have brought up national and international recruiting, begs the question that perhaps the local players are simply not good enough -- despite the participation in events you allude to.
More to follow - I have exceeded my quota for the day, week!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ZM, I thought you were a CESA member?
I have purchased one year worth of CESA - with my same USA coach. Go SOLO...
Isn't that like buying a Mercedes just to keep it in your garage and look at it?
No - my kids get the love and attention of a GREAT coach, the organization and all of its bells and whistles.(will discover those as we go) at the same price I was paying! 
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32 |
Quote:
Quote:
All you need do is look at the rosters for Wofford, Furman, CofC, Coastal, USC, Clemson, Lander... to see that all of these schools recruit nationally and internationally. If you think that the chances of any of them recruiting a SC kid who played only Classic or Challenge (with minimal to zero wider experience) is more than marginally north of 0, you're mistaken. No speculation necessary.
The fact that you have brought up national and international recruiting, begs the question that perhaps the local players are simply not good enough -- despite the participation in events you allude to.
More to follow - I have exceeded my quota for the day, week!
And this is were I see the problem (which is maybe for another thread). I have had coaches flat out tell me that a player (yes, in most cases but not all, my son) was put on the lower team because HE (I've said it before, the girls game is a different monster) was smaller. These coaches have admitted that the two or so players are better technically than those that made the team, it was there size. This has happened from u11-u15. So they have already been pigeon-holed and we all know that in most cases size eventually equals out. In fact, my son came home from school last week, he is a freshman, and said he heard the coach was only looking at freshman player x and freshman player y because they play premier. True or not, that's what the players are thinking. Maybe SC players aren't good enough because many of the coaches think they can make players out of some of the bigger, faster (and many many times) less dedicated players.
To tell the truth, I could give example after example where in my sons age group( because I have seen them all play for years) where the all the smaller players are moved down and it doesn't matter if they are better soccer players, even if they demonstrate so in games.
I will also say that we are at CESA because 1) it is the most convenient and 2) my son's friends are there and he doesn't want to leave. He already goes to a high school that he is not zoned for, thus "losing" many friends.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Reccos - Quote:
HD: You do realize you are debating two different points, right?
Yep - I am capable of doing that.
There's a saying about exceptions that prove the rule that applies here. As I said, pointing to four recruits out of 100+ tends to prove my point. I have talked to many college coaches about the recruiting process and the conversations are always the same - on the boys side they recruit from the Development Academy first, second and third, then from Premier League/ODP/USYS. HS soccer is a non-entity for recruiting purposes.
Zen Master -
My son had a fine HS career, but you're absolutely correct - it was meaningless in the recruiting process.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630 |
I will also say that we are at CESA because 1) it is the most convenient and 2) my son's friends are there and he doesn't want to leave. He already goes to a high school that he is not zoned for, thus "losing" many friends.
How does he do that? Is that legal?
Victory Starts Here!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
There's a saying about exceptions that prove the rule that applies here. As I said, pointing to four recruits out of 100+ tends to prove my point.
Simply out of respect for the rules of logic and probability...just because one person who happens to post on this thread happens to know four players who were exceptions to the theory, it would be awfully hasty to assume they were the only four out there.
If, from all of the hundreds (thousands?) of people involved in SC soccer, we could find people who know just double the number of addidional exceptions known by the one (I'd call that fairly good odds) we're up to 12 out of your hundred (given your 100+ designation, we'll round to 10%.)
Now, while the odds are definitely in favor of the high-level club players, I'd still call 10% more significant than "marginally north of 0."
Then we get into the issue of causality. Do people become blue-chip players because they choose to travel? Or do they choose to travel because they are blue-chip players? That's kind of on the same line as asking a club, "Should the blue-chip players come to you because you win a lot of championships, or do you win a lot of championships because the blue-chip players choose to gather there?" Does the club make the players, or do the players make the club? Or some combination thereof?
My point is, there is definitely value to playing at the highest level and getting as much exposure as possible--no need to have to defend the investment; I don't think anyone's rationally calling it a waste--but there is no "only" path. It's a myth. The other paths may be more difficult and may require a lot of effort and some pure luck...but they exist. There is no "only."
Granted, the girls' game is a different monster indeed, but I worked with a girl in high school and Classic club ball who got called to an interview for Clemson and was actively recruited as a keeper by VT...right alongside a girl from New Zealand, if I remember correctly. I'm glad nobody ever convinced her that if she didn't have the "right" opportunities coming along, she had absolutely no chance to compete.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I will also say that we are at CESA because 1) it is the most convenient and 2) my son's friends are there and he doesn't want to leave. He already goes to a high school that he is not zoned for, thus "losing" many friends.
How does he do that? Is that legal?
There are several conditions that can allow a student to attend a high school he's not residentially zoned for...NCLB opens a lot of avenues, magnet schools and IB programs can draw from other zones, and parents working at a school are allowed to bring their children with them even if they live outside the attendance zone of that school, just to name a few of the possibilities.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Coach -
Your point is hypothetical, so I can't say whether it's valid. It may be. Even so, I would be very surprised to learn of girls who are recruited to play in college who have not, at least in the very recent past, played very competitive club soccer. Of course there are going to be exceptions, but I think very, very few. I freely admit to knowing far less about the girls' side of things. On the boys side, the reality is that you have to play highly competitive club soccer to be recruited. I've looked at most all if the freshman classes (men) at the SC colleges and can only think of one or two SC kids who didn't play either USSF DA, Premier League, or Challenge League with a bunch of big tournaments on top of it.
I'm not saying that it is impossible to take a different route. It is possible, as your personal example illustrates. I'm saying that one's chances of playing in college are minimal without having played very competitive club soccer. That's just the reality.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
You're right; my numbers are purely hypothetical...I'm just saying it's at least as valid to assume there are more examples out there beyond that one poster's experience as it is to assume there aren't.
I think you're right in that the key to getting recruited is being seen. If a coach is looking at a player who is running circles around the competition, I seriously doubt he's going to accept or reject him simply based on his club pedigree; the question is, without the kind of exposure high level club play provides, how does that player get seen?
The exceptions, I think, are the ones fortunate enough to, through pure luck, a little push from an influential party, or strategic design, find themselves in front of the right person at the right time--and in that fortunate moment, all that hard work, developed talent, and winning attitude has a chance to get noticed. The club/tournament environment drastically increases the odds of that moment happening, no doubt--and it takes both the quality of player and the opportunity to show it to make things happen.
I guess I've just worked most of my life with young people trying to make things happen without all the advantages, and I've seen some of them make it pretty big, even against the odds, just like I've seen plenty with all the advantages end up going nowhere. I'd rather tell them how much harder they're going to have to work to get where they want to be than tell them they've got a marginally north of zero chance of getting there at all.
When it comes to causality...and this just occurred to me as I was typing...is it possible that part--just part, mind you, and perhaps a small part--of the reason you don't see those players who don't get a chance to play high-level club getting recruited could be because many of them, no matter how talented they may be, are convinced that there's no use for them to try?
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
These coaches have admitted that the two or so players are better technically than those that made the team, it was there size. This has happened from u11-u15... So they have already been pigeon-holed and we all know that in most cases size eventually equals out. Maybe SC players aren't good enough because many of the coaches think they can make players out of some of the bigger, faster (and many many times) less dedicated players.
To tell the truth, I could give example after example where in my sons age group( because I have seen them all play for years) where the all the smaller players are moved down and it doesn't matter if they are better soccer players, even if they demonstrate so in games.
1. All things being equal I would pick the bigger kid
2. All things being equal I would pick the faster kid
However, things are never CETERIS PARIBUS
What's that guys name from Argentina who is what 5'4"? His coach, I forget his name (who was the best also), who was 5'3", maybe.
Wayne, for the life of me, I forget his name... he use to play hockey... but they said he was too small to survive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Coach:
I think you're exactly right. In an ideal world every kid with the talent and desire would be able to play at whatever level he/she wanted, including college and beyond. I think the problem is more one of logistics than bias. The simple fact is that the college coaches have to harvest the richest fields. For better or worse those fields are found in high level club soccer. They simply don't have the time or resources to spend in other places. My advice to guys and gals who, for whatever reason are not playing that level of club soccer, is to be very aggressive in their marketing of themselves. Send video to coaches - get respected soccer people to send letters of reference and, most importantly, attend camps at schools in which you are interested. Assume that you aren't going to be "discovered" and put yourself in front of those by whom you want to be seen. Finally, I want to reiterate that these kids should not assume that they can't afford high level club. Talk to the clubs and find out what financial assistance is available. They may be pleasantly surprised.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541 |
just look at the lack of success of forwards (big/fast but no ball skills) for the usmnt. crazy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203 |
Quote:
Talk to the clubs and find out what financial assistance is available. They may be pleasantly surprised.
You know I agree with most everything on Happy Daddy's post up to this point. What he is saying is reality - the higher level players get the scholarships because they have A).put themselves in a position to be seen by college coaches and b).faced the best competition in the country. Then he has to bring up this financial assistance thing - which in my opinion may help some but can't come close to helping others. What financial assistance is there for that kid with one parent working two jobs, getting government assistance and struggling to pay electric bills and put gas in a beat up car with high mileage? So even if they did get financial assistance from a club do you honestly think they can pay other expenses associated with high level travel ball?(I know what is involved - I've had kids play Premier ball). Those players potentially have more God given talent than anybody on any Academy or Premier team. But for alot of these kids there are too many obstacles in the way to make it happen. While I agree financial assistance may serve a cetain segment you are fooling yourself if you think it is the answer to help those with limited financial means otherwise. Maybe I'm misguided - maybe it's not meant to serve the really poor? If that's the case it's kind of sad too. I realize clubs mean well and I realize there are some needy players being served - but I guess I get tired of seeing that card thrown around by club officials like its the answer for all players without financial means. I know all too well it's a tough world out there and many of these people in the situation I described will face this all their lives. I know they could work hard, pull themselves out of where they are, get a college education, blah blah blah. Yeah - easy for those of us that weren't born into that situation to say. I also realize these clubs are a business and don't owe anybody anything. Sorry to rant - I just get a little fired up when club officials use that financial assistance card like it's the be all end all.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 289
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 289 |
...who was the girl that played for Anson at UNC... what was she???? oh yea 4'9"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
63, i think you got just a little carried away there (i know; the box is soapy and slippery/slidey).
i don't think he said all that. i believe what happy is basically saying is for people to not immediately assume they cannot afford a particular level of soccer based on the cost. before making any decisions, they should at least take the time to talk to a club's officials to see if there may be help available. i don't think he was suggesting there's a pile of money out there for anyone and everyone who needs it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Belligerent aptly clarified the meaning of my suggestion. There will always be factors that conspire against some (many) kids that will prevent them pursuing their soccer dreams. I don't pretend to have a solution to all, or even most, of those situations. I only meant to suggest that finances will not always be the impediment they may at first seem to be. It's worth asking about.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521 |
My sister played high school sports in the late 50s and early 60s..She was under five feet tall..She won at everything she did..softball,basketball,volleyball and even bowling..We had five shelves that where six feet long that housed all of her accomplishments..What was her secret?
She had the ability to fail.She was never afraid to put it all on the line and come up short..
Most people don't have that and that is what "IT" is..
Money was never an issue back then..Everyone played rec and school sports..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 203 |
I was not really meaning to direct my comments specifically at Happy Daddy as much as "financial assistance" as administered by clubs. Sometimes I get the feeling clubs use that as a "crutch" as if to say - see we don't exclude anyone. The reality is in this country youth from really poor backgrounds are "not encouraged" to seek soccer as their primary sport. In other - much poorer - countries it is their primary sport. Why? Because in those countries it doesn't cost hundreds or thousands of dollars a season to play. Until we find a way in this country to quit using the "financial assistance" type excuses and truly attract the best athletes, soccer in the U.S. will struggle to compete with other countries on the world stage. Just my opinion!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 74
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 74 |
Quote:
Quote:
First, I assume you are referring to girls, not boys. I don't know any men's college coach who goes to HS games unless it is to watch a player he has already identified through club. Second, if you consider that there are probably 20 SC colleges with women's soccer, each recruiting a minimum (educated guess) of five ladies per year, I'd say four out of one hundred proves my point.
HD: You do realize you are debating two different points, right?
And once again just because you don't know of a player that was recruited at a HS game, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Girls soccer verbal commitments:
Clemson:
class of 2011:
3 from California
1 from Charlotte
South Carolina:
Class of 2011
1 from Canada
1 from NJ
1 from VA
1 from PA
class of 2012
1 from PA
There is not only not any recruits from SC but between the two schools only 1 even from region III. With these distant recruits, I'd guess a lot of time is spent by these coaches watching games outside of SC and adjoining states. I would assume the early recruits is where their scholarship money is going. I highly doubt they attend any high school games or few if any in state SC club level games. I'm not sure if USC coaches even attended SC club state cup. I suppose it is all dependent on the level of college play. If you want to play soccer in college, there is a place for everyone. There are college soccer teams in SC that are beaten by U15 premier SC club teams. So even if the SC player wants to go to college in state or nearby, depending on the school they want to attend to play soccer, he/she is competing nationally for those spots and coaches will want to see how they size up against players from across the nation. Therein requires the high travel and participation in things like ODP, regionals, ECNL for girls, academy for boys etc. In order to even be considered at division 1 "local" SC schools, coaches want to see the player in context of other players across the US. Now if divsion 1 college soccer or the travel experience isn't an interest of the player, then it probably doesn't make sense to spend the time and money for a team that plays in leagues or tournaments across the US. These teams will be expensive to belong to and with the cost of travel will likely become more expensive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
College coaches most certainly do attend high school games. In the Columbia area I see, and often speak with, college coaches representing many colleges at local high school tournaments.
USC coaches from both sides show up frequently.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
they might attend those games, but that does not necessarily mean they are recruiting at those games. chances are they're checking out one or more of their signees playing, watching a few matches (just cause that's what they do); and there's always that off-chance they see somebody who had previously escaped their eye. but, it's highly doubtful they are there to really scope out an unknown (to them) player's abilities.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
The whole argument pretty much ends if you look at the reality. Take Clemson and USC and Furman and College of Charleston as examples......and look at the bios of their freshmen and sophs.
First of all, if a kid is from Texas or California or Florida or England or Canada.....its a pretty good bet that they weren't recruited out of HS play.
Secondly, for the regional kids (Carolinas, GA, TN, VA) see where they played prior to enrolling at that school. What Club team or Academy team is referenced.
If 80% or more of the kids played at the highest level (Academy or R3 on the boys side.....R3 or ECNL on the girls side) then its probably a pretty safe bet that thats where the college coaches are doing their recruiting.
D2-D3 schools and maybe even some lower level D1 schools may use HS games to assess players, but I doubt ACC or SoCon coaches are...unless there are special tournaments like Viking Cup for the girls.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32 |
Quote:
These coaches have admitted that the two or so players are better technically than those that made the team, it was there size. This has happened from u11-u15... So they have already been pigeon-holed and we all know that in most cases size eventually equals out. Maybe SC players aren't good enough because many of the coaches think they can make players out of some of the bigger, faster (and many many times) less dedicated players.
To tell the truth, I could give example after example where in my sons age group( because I have seen them all play for years) where the all the smaller players are moved down and it doesn't matter if they are better soccer players, even if they demonstrate so in games.
1. All things being equal I would pick the bigger kid
2. All things being equal I would pick the faster kid
However, things are never CETERIS PARIBUS
What's that guys name from Argentina who is what 5'4"? His coach, I forget his name (who was the best also), who was 5'3", maybe.
Wayne, for the life of me, I forget his name... he use to play hockey... but they said he was too small to survive.
well, all things being equal, I would take faster, stronger players as well. I didn't say things were equal though. The team played better when the skilled players had the ball and the team kept possession, as opposed to when they just booted it around. Ticky-tack possession soccer is why Sapin won the World Cup.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
You showed me... that is the last time I back your point up! 
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 836
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 836 |
Quote:
Quote:
These coaches have admitted that the two or so players are better technically than those that made the team, it was there size. This has happened from u11-u15... So they have already been pigeon-holed and we all know that in most cases size eventually equals out. Maybe SC players aren't good enough because many of the coaches think they can make players out of some of the bigger, faster (and many many times) less dedicated players.
To tell the truth, I could give example after example where in my sons age group( because I have seen them all play for years) where the all the smaller players are moved down and it doesn't matter if they are better soccer players, even if they demonstrate so in games.
1. All things being equal I would pick the bigger kid
2. All things being equal I would pick the faster kid
However, things are never CETERIS PARIBUS
What's that guys name from Argentina who is what 5'4"? His coach, I forget his name (who was the best also), who was 5'3", maybe.
Wayne, for the life of me, I forget his name... he use to play hockey... but they said he was too small to survive.
well, all things being equal, I would take faster, stronger players as well. I didn't say things were equal though. The team played better when the skilled players had the ball and the team kept possession, as opposed to when they just booted it around. Ticky-tack possession soccer is why Sapin won the World Cup.
Well said Clark!
Imagine. Believe. Achieve.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
Quote:
they might attend those games, but that does not necessarily mean they are recruiting at those games. chances are they're checking out one or more of their signees playing, watching a few matches (just cause that's what they do); and there's always that off-chance they see somebody who had previously escaped their eye. but, it's highly doubtful they are there to really scope out an unknown (to them) player's abilities.
Never said they were there for recruiting. But I'm not saying "I THINK" they are recruiting or not. I just don't think they go to HS soccer games to get away from work. Would watching one of their signees not be part of the recruiting process? Is a coach watching/evaluating a 10th grader not part of recruiting process? In my opinion, a college coach would go anywhere to see prospective players, whether it's ODP, Premier league, club tournaments or large high school tournaments. Just don't tell me they're only at a high school for fun and relaxation. They're always on the job. That's what they do, right?
Last edited by dhunter; 09/01/10 07:32 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
OK guys ... So if these 'big time' colleges in SC are recruiting nationally and internationally (and not locally), what are we doing wrong? Maybe we are not travelling far enough away from SC? 
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
personally, i think we're improving, overall; it just takes time. remember, the japanese did not build the pyramids overnight.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 32 |
Yea, it took alot of planning for the Germans to bomb Pearl Harbor.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Reccos:
They do recruit locally. I think the point that I and others have tried to make is that local kids are recruited but they are evaluated alongside kids from all over. The rosters of state schools reflect that. However, just looking at rosters can mislead. You can't tell who is getting money by looking at a roster. State schools are going to have more in-state "free" kids than out of state free kids.
The original issue was whether SC kids needed to play in regionally or nationally competitive leagues and programs if their college soccer aspirations were to play in-state. The person who positited that theory did it in a retrospective way, but the point is the same. The short answer is - yes.
More to your question - I think we are doing pretty well, given our size. My strong hunch is that if you were to compare our results in producing college soccer players to those states with 20% more or less than our population, you would find that we do significantly better than most.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 558 |
Quote:
OK guys ...
So if these 'big time' colleges in SC are recruiting nationally and internationally (and not locally), what are we doing wrong?
Maybe we are not travelling far enough away from SC?
I think the 'big time' colleges in SC, at least for a few years on the girls' side, have been recruiting players from SC. What they are OFFERING the players from SC compared to players outside SC may have more to do with why we're seeing top SC players showing up on rosters elsewhere. Now, if what they are offering is what you mean by "recruiting", then they are not recruiting. Players from outside SC are offered scholarships, players from inside SC are offered the privilege of playing 'big time'.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
goal kick
|
|
goal kick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108 |
Quote:
Reccos:
More to your question - I think we are doing pretty well, given our size. My strong hunch is that if you were to compare our results in producing college soccer players to those states with 20% more or less than our population, you would find that we do significantly better than most.
We've lived in 6 different states and based upon my observations SC is the weakest. Our kids started playing in Oregon, population 3.8 million compared to SC's 4.6 million. Comparing the Women's rosters - Oregon's top three programs have 23 of 76 players coming from in state. U of Portland with 7 in state players is ranked 4th in the nation. Oregon and Oregon State were the other two programs I used. If you look at SC (USC, Clemson and College of Charleston) only 10 out of 79 players come from in state. If you eliminate C of C then there are only 5 in state players.
We also lived in Iowa (population 3 million). If you check Iowa and Iowa State's rosters you'll find numbers closer to Oregon's than SC's.
I think the numbers speak for themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
I was talking about men. But, your numbers aren't really addressing my point anyway. And, there are seven other states that meet my criterion. Rather than look at the proportion of in-state players, we should be looking at the total number playing college soccer anywhere. I may yet be proven wrong but I still think we do better Than Alabama, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Tennessee, etc.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
HD, I took the time to look through your posts. Kudos to you for your involvement in youth soccer, but at the same time it does also explain your perspective.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Is the goal really to do better than these other states? Is that how we should measure our success?
Should we not be concerned about what we are doing?
Who is our leader by the way? Who exactly is showing us the way?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
|
|
coach
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
Quote:
Quote:
Reccos:
More to your question - I think we are doing pretty well, given our size. My strong hunch is that if you were to compare our results in producing college soccer players to those states with 20% more or less than our population, you would find that we do significantly better than most.
We've lived in 6 different states and based upon my observations SC is the weakest. Our kids started playing in Oregon, population 3.8 million compared to SC's 4.6 million. Comparing the Women's rosters - Oregon's top three programs have 23 of 76 players coming from in state. U of Portland with 7 in state players is ranked 4th in the nation. Oregon and Oregon State were the other two programs I used. If you look at SC (USC, Clemson and College of Charleston) only 10 out of 79 players come from in state. If you eliminate C of C then there are only 5 in state players.
We also lived in Iowa (population 3 million). If you check Iowa and Iowa State's rosters you'll find numbers closer to Oregon's than SC's.
I think the numbers speak for themselves.
While the numbers speak for themselves, sometimes it's difficult to grasp their nuance.
Population density, rather than aggregate population, tends to work better in terms of understanding competitive soccer in the United States. Thus to understand what you're seeing, take a look below the state level at the MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) level. The Portland MSA is 2.2M of Oregon's 3.8M.
Comparatively, in SC, Greenville/Spartanburg MSA is at 1.2M, Columbia is 740K, Charleston is 640K. And there's a lot of argument concerning combining Greenville and Spartanburg into a single MSA.
To contrast, Atlanta is 5.5M. Lots and lots of players in D1 programs throughout the country from Atlanta.
Bottom line: I agree SC is weak. I think that the fundamental drivers for this weakness are (1) population demographics and density and (2) the lack of an offsetting wide scale effort to bring more young recreational players into the base of soccer which might fight #1.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
SH ... I wish I had your brain - perhaps then some of my ramblings would make more sense!
Having said that, I believe you make my point for me! Given those 'restrictions' what should our goals and expectations be?
Are we not fooling ourselves with all this short letter stuff? (RIIIPLE, ECNL, USSF DA)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
There any number of metrics that one could use to try to judge how well SC does in producing college players. To me, the most meaningful is the total number of SC kids playing college soccer, proportionate to our population. I haven't seen anything yet that disabuses me of the opinion that we do very well indeed. One reason is certainly the number of SC colleges with soccer programs. I feel sure that we have more than most, if not all, of the states of similar size. If we don't produce players who can compete for those roster spots, they will be filled from elsewhere. One of the primarary criteria is excellent competitive experience - which is where those acronyms come in!
I'll leave it to another enterprising forumite to research, but I bet SC has a relatively high percentage of its population registered in youth soccer programs. I'll be anxiously awaiting the results of that research.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
It all goes back to the money. Make soccer more affordable for every child and you'll get better soccer. Soccer in this state and maybe others doesn't make it affordable for low income to middle income families to participate on travel teams for 4+ years with a price tag of $4000+ per year. I've heard some players are offered scholarships with clubs but that doesn't cover travel costs. When we started in this travel soccer 6+ years ago we were traveling to just southeastern states by car, this last year in a 3 month period our team traveled by jet to Seattle, Texas, NJ.
In other sports such as baseball, football, basketball those sports look at the ability of the youth athlete first, not the parents bank account. Soccer is a sport for the upper middle class to upper class, it's kind of like golf, although the game of golf has started to break those barriers with free youth programs for low income families. I guess we just have to take soccer for what it is, a "very expensive participation sport". with not a bright future unless they start letting everyone play.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 135
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 135 |
Another metric one could look at is recruitment of SC players by out of state universities. If you look at boys football, you find SC players rostered on many of the best prgrams throughout the country. Furthermore, many of the best SC football players who chose to stay in state at D-1 programs had many out of state offers. Can the same be said about boys soccer? In the last 5 years there have been very few SC who have gone to D-1 programs outside of SC? Much has been made about exposure on a regional and national level. Were many of the SC players who are currently on D-1 programs in the state recruited by top programs from around the country? If not, why not?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 249
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 249 |
Much has been made about exposure on a regional and national level. Were many of the SC players who are currently on D-1 programs in the state recruited by top programs from around the country? If not, why not?
Probably not, because there are many of the same caliber players in NC, GA, etc. in which those schools can get players that are "in-state" and thus, lower tuition. SC has the added value of recruiting a local kid in hopes that if they have good academics, then with LIFE scholarships and such, the player is very cheap or what is termed a "free" player, because none of the 9.9 scholarships for soccer are having to be spent on that player.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
|
|
world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
Quote:
Much has been made about exposure on a regional and national level. Were many of the SC players who are currently on D-1 programs in the state recruited by top programs from around the country? If not, why not?
Probably not, because there are many of the same caliber players in NC, GA, etc. in which those schools can get players that are "in-state" and thus, lower tuition. SC has the added value of recruiting a local kid in hopes that if they have good academics, then with LIFE scholarships and such, the player is very cheap or what is termed a "free" player, because none of the 9.9 scholarships for soccer are having to be spent on that player.
So the South Carolina player (assuming he/she is a good student) is relatively "cheap" for USC, Clemson, CofC, etc.
If the player is really good, these schools should be fawning over them.
How good is "really good"....with repect to the players from GA, FL, NC, etc. that these coaches are also looking at?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
It all goes back to the money. Make soccer more affordable for every child and you'll get better soccer. Soccer in this state and maybe others doesn't make it affordable for low income to middle income families to participate on travel teams for 4+ years with a price tag of $4000+ per year. I've heard some players are offered scholarships with clubs but that doesn't cover travel costs. When we started in this travel soccer 6+ years ago we were traveling to just southeastern states by car, this last year in a 3 month period our team traveled by jet to Seattle, Texas, NJ.
In other sports such as baseball, football, basketball those sports look at the ability of the youth athlete first, not the parents bank account. Soccer is a sport for the upper middle class to upper class, it's kind of like golf, although the game of golf has started to break those barriers with free youth programs for low income families. I guess we just have to take soccer for what it is, a "very expensive participation sport". with not a bright future unless they start letting everyone play.
There is an athletic density problem with soccer that doesn't exist with baseball or basketball or football.
A highly talented hooper from Columbia for example.....doesn't have to go any further than the Y to get into a pretty high quality pickup game. And chances are excellent that there are a handful of high quality AAU teams in the Cola area. And within 2 hours of Columbia....there are tons of really really good players and teams.
My kid can walk over to a buddies house and get involved with a pickup basketball game or football game. He has to get into a car and drive to get a soccer pickup game.
Very good soccer players/teams from places like south carolina HAVE to travel becasue there simply isn't the depth or breadth of adequate competition locally or within the state. Highly dense places like Southern CA are probably different.
But to me the model isn't broken. Its a numbers issue....until soccer hits a critical mass in terms of numbers of players this problem will exist. So long as you have to drive to get a pickup game......you probably need to bus to get a quality match, if you are at a very high level.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
Another metric one could look at is recruitment of SC players by out of state universities. If you look at boys football, you find SC players rostered on many of the best prgrams throughout the country. Furthermore, many of the best SC football players who chose to stay in state at D-1 programs had many out of state offers. Can the same be said about boys soccer? In the last 5 years there have been very few SC who have gone to D-1 programs outside of SC? Much has been made about exposure on a regional and national level. Were many of the SC players who are currently on D-1 programs in the state recruited by top programs from around the country? If not, why not?
Could be a legit argument except for finances. Football and basketball are dealing with full scholarships. A SC soccer player looking at an out of state school is looking at out of state tuition plus the loss of lottery money.
A SC player who gets a 1/4 scholarship to say.....Winthrop. And if we make the assumption that the kid is a decent student and has earned the LIFE scholarship is looking at maybe $9-10 per year in out of pocket expenses.
Same player looks at......UNC Wilmington. Out of state costs probably in the $28-30k range less the 1/4 scholarship means out of pocket expenses of $22-23k.
Delta of $12k per year times 4 years is over $50 grand, when adjusted for time value of money.
Thats why you don't see many SC kids playing out of state D1.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 293
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 293 |
Quote:
Quote:
Another metric one could look at is recruitment of SC players by out of state universities. If you look at boys football, you find SC players rostered on many of the best prgrams throughout the country. Furthermore, many of the best SC football players who chose to stay in state at D-1 programs had many out of state offers. Can the same be said about boys soccer? In the last 5 years there have been very few SC who have gone to D-1 programs outside of SC? Much has been made about exposure on a regional and national level. Were many of the SC players who are currently on D-1 programs in the state recruited by top programs from around the country? If not, why not?
Could be a legit argument except for finances. Football and basketball are dealing with full scholarships. A SC soccer player looking at an out of state school is looking at out of state tuition plus the loss of lottery money.
A SC player who gets a 1/4 scholarship to say.....Winthrop. And if we make the assumption that the kid is a decent student and has earned the LIFE scholarship is looking at maybe $9-10 per year in out of pocket expenses.
Same player looks at......UNC Wilmington. Out of state costs probably in the $28-30k range less the 1/4 scholarship means out of pocket expenses of $22-23k.
Delta of $12k per year times 4 years is over $50 grand, when adjusted for time value of money.
Thats why you don't see many SC kids playing out of state D1.
Is it possible to offer an out-of-state student in-state tuition?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 135
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 135 |
It's perfectly reasonable that a player (and his family) given the option of playing in state versus out of state would choose the in state school because of the cost difference. But that's not the question I raised. I'm wondering how many SC players are recruited by out of state D-1 schools and have that option of choosing between the two. Also, I don't buy the argument that out of state schools are not recruiting SC players because its cheaper for them to take players from their own states. Just look at the rosters of the major D-1 schools and you can see this is not the case.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
There's a ton of well off families who have kids playing soccer. Maybe for some families walking away from $12k per year is not that big of a deal. Why, would a family pay $48k or whatever to go to Furman versus $20k to go to Clemson? I know there are reasons......just saying even if I could afford it, I would swallow really hard paying Furman bills knowing my kid could go to Clemson and get just as good of an education for less than half as much.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
It's perfectly reasonable that a player (and his family) given the option of playing in state versus out of state would choose the in state school because of the cost difference. But that's not the question I raised. I'm wondering how many SC players are recruited by out of state D-1 schools and have that option of choosing between the two. Also, I don't buy the argument that out of state schools are not recruiting SC players because its cheaper for them to take players from their own states. Just look at the rosters of the major D-1 schools and you can see this is not the case.
I was actually just having this conversation with another forumite whom I'm friends with and both of our kids are being recruited by out of state schools.....and I have no idea how the money deal will work. Its one of my questions that I guess time will tell.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
SC Womens D1 programs: Out of State vs In state 2010.
Winthrop 27 out, 3 in
Coastal 28 out, 1 in
Clemson 21 out, 2 in
South Carolina 29 out, 3 in
Furman 18 out, 2 in
C of C 18 out, 6 in
Presbyterian 11 out, 12 in
Wofford 19 out 6 in
Total 171 out, 35 in thanks to presbyterian.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521 |
Missed one
Francis Marion 18 out,4 in
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32 |
Quote:
There's a ton of well off families who have kids playing soccer. Maybe for some families walking away from $12k per year is not that big of a deal. Why, would a family pay $48k or whatever to go to Furman versus $20k to go to Clemson? I know there are reasons......just saying even if I could afford it, I would swallow really hard paying Furman bills knowing my kid could go to Clemson and get just as good of an education for less than half as much.
As a side note to this whole conversation of soccer, I always wondered why someone (particularly in state) would decide to go spend the money to goto Furman to become a teacher and why someone from the Upstate would go to Furman as opposed to a place like Furman that wasn't in their back yard. That may just be me, though.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
SC ODP program has been very weak over the past several years. Maybe if the D1 coach's of SC colleges were more involved with SC ODP more SC kids would be looked at. I believe both the Coastal coach's are heavily involved with NC ODP.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
|
|
world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
Quote:
SC Womens D1 programs: Out of State vs In state 2010.
Winthrop 27 out, 3 in
Coastal 28 out, 1 in
Clemson 21 out, 2 in
South Carolina 29 out, 3 in
Furman 18 out, 2 in
C of C 18 out, 6 in
Presbyterian 11 out, 12 in
Wofford 19 out 6 in
Total 171 out, 35 in thanks to presbyterian.
In addition to Francis Marion.....
The Citadel
Charleston Southern
South Carolina State
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
goal kick
|
|
goal kick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108 |
Quote:
Quote:
SC Womens D1 programs: Out of State vs In state 2010.
Winthrop 27 out, 3 in
Coastal 28 out, 1 in
Clemson 21 out, 2 in
South Carolina 29 out, 3 in
Furman 18 out, 2 in
C of C 18 out, 6 in
Presbyterian 11 out, 12 in
Wofford 19 out 6 in
Total 171 out, 35 in thanks to presbyterian.
In addition to Francis Marion.....
The Citadel
Charleston Southern
South Carolina State
Citadel: 2 of 18 in state
Charleston Southern: 6 of 22
SC State: 1 of 23 (12 are from California)
The numbers don't get any better
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99 |
A few thoughts:
1. the Region ODP coaches pick their recruits and potential recruits for events
2. Having SC coaches has really lessened Sandlapper's chances on the girls side with ODP
3. I think it would be advantageous to look at the above list and send your child to camp at the SC schools that are rostering and recruiting SC players. I would recommend not spending all that money to go to the big SC schools for camp because they give the SC players the least money and the least amount of respect
4. Of those SC players rostered at the big schools, how many are playing at least 1/2 a game? How many are paying to play?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99 |
I disagree with SC Universities giving more money to out of state players (who by the way, in some states can get a free education in their home state) when there are Sandlappers who are just as good, if not better than the players they sign. In our economy, we should be supporting the children in our state, educating them and giving them opportunities. I think the coaches are not from here, thereby, they do not understand the pride of South Carolina. If we stop spending money at their camps and games, then, maybe they will wake up and support the state that actually gives them the opportunity to coach in the best conferences in the country.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,521 |
Have to disagree..There are schools in the state that have several SC players on their rosters..They are not D1 schools but ther're there and playing ball..They just struggle with their programs so there is not much talk about them..Playing ball at the next level is a achievement and not a god given right because we live in SC..Coaches are not going to select players because they live in this state.They are going to select players that help their programs and can work within the scholarships that are available to them..Don't go to the games..Not that many do..I watched the ETS/FMU game this past weekend..There are more people at our club games..If my child is chosen to play at one of these schools I want it to be because she can help the program not because she lives in the state..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99 |
CHT my point is that there are players that are from SC that not only can help these programs, but, are better than many of the recruits from other states. Yet, they are being disrespected by the SC schools by not being recruited. You might find more people at games if the in state talent were actually being signed and playing at our schools. Being from this state is a privelege and if it is a state supported school then recruiting our top players each year should be a priority!
Also, I think not spending money to attend camps at schools that do not recruit SC players sends a message. Not going to games may not, especially, at schools that do not have football programs. Those who are looking to play in state should perhaps, attend camp at some of the schools you are thinking about. Would you please list them so this knowledge can be shared with those who wish to pursue playing college soccer?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 99 |
To further make my point, how can someone from anywhere else in the country / world truly understand the rivalry between Clemson and Carolina? It would be awesome to see a soccer game between these 2 schools with a roster filled with South Carolina natives! (I know, not realistic, but,...could it be?)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 907
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 907 |
Especially when it is our tax monies!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
observer, when you say that you "disagree with SC Universities giving more money to out of state players," is that a general statement, or do you have specific information on the amount of money being given to out-of-state vs in-state players?
you also say " there are Sandlappers who are just as good, if not better than the players they sign" and that "they are being disrespected by the SC schools by not being recruited." do you honestly believe that college coaches in south carolina are not looking for the best players for their teams? heck, actually, i have no idea what their criteria is for recruiting players – maybe it's not the best players; maybe it's the players with the highest grades; maybe the ones with the best history of non-injury; maybe the ones who can do the most pushups, who knows. it always amazes me the number of people who seem to be so much wiser than coaches.
i'm sure if you sit down with a list of sc players who are not playing soccer at a college in-state, you could find some who appear to be "better" than some out-of-state players. but what does "better" mean? does your term "better" rate the player's attitude, work ethic, high school grades, SAT score, intended major in college, etc.? do you not think college coaches take all these factors, plus many more, into consideration when choosing players for their rosters?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
Quote:
... do you not think college coaches take all these factors, plus many more, into consideration when choosing players for their rosters?
Excellent point! Consider also that not every capable player wants to stay in-state and play; like many entering their first year of college, they want to get away from home, go to a school they've been interested in for years. It's not a black or white issue.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
OK. So we have concluded that there are very few Student Athletes from South Carolina playing at the Collegiate level in South Carolina. I would also go as far as to say that there are even fewer outside of SC - so what does all of this tell us?
I see a few glaring things when I stand on my slippery soap box ...
Lack of numbers: Less than 20K and falling...
Lack of coaching: Can you say win at all costs. What happened to individual player development?? Players not good enough - just recruit another!!
Poor Leadership: Who is making these decisions to travel 500 miles when you could travel 10 and learn the same lesson?
Oh, I could go on, but I hear the responses already!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
reccos, maybe not what you were expecting, but here's a response...
Lack of numbers: Less than 20K and falling... (20k of what?)
Lack of coaching: Can you say win at all costs. What happened to individual player development?? Players not good enough - just recruit another!! (who are you talking about exactly? i know you are also covering this in another thread, but can you clarify?)
Poor Leadership: Who is making these decisions to travel 500 miles when you could travel 10 and learn the same lesson? (again, who are you talking about? examples?)
Oh, I could go on, but I hear the responses already! (i don't really need any more examples, just clarification of the ones you gave)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Fair Play!
Look around you -- if you are involved in club soccer, then you know who I am referring to. If not, does it really matter?
Or did you just want me to say what you were thinking?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
no, i ask the questions because i don't understand what you're saying...seriously.
again, what is the 20k referring to?
i'll just skip the coaching comments - it's being covered elsewhere.
poor leadership; who are you talking about - coaches who decide to travel 500 miles, or parents who decide to travel that distance? i'm just not sure what point you're trying to make.
not trying to be difficult (like i usually am) - i'm really just trying to understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to say.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
kick off
|
|
kick off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32 |
I'll give an example of traveling when not needed.
Last season, our coach decided not to play in CESA's spring tournament, which is in our backyard. He claimed they didn't get adequate competition for our team. So that same weekend, we traveled to KNoxville only to win our first game 6-0 before the rest of the tournament got canceled due to the weather. Travel, food for 2+ days, 2 nights in a hotel, boarding of pets, etc. and the players got nothing out of it soccer-wise.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182
Goal Kick
|
|
Goal Kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 182 |
Quote:
Lack of coaching: Can you say win at all costs. What happened to individual player development?? Players not good enough - just recruit another!!
Reccos, that's spot on.
I've seen it many times. New coach comes to a team and at try outs he selects starting 11 from previous season but doesn't consider the other former players "because they didn't work hard enough to be a starter..."??? He doesn't even look at them. Instead he picks entirely new players to fill out the roster. My thought is coach should have actually watched them, even compare them to his new prospects. But no, that would actually require an effort. It's obvious when they segregate the 11 from the rest and put them on separate fields for tryouts that the coach has made up his mind who he won't select.
To me it implies the coach isn't good enough to develop players and can't really evaluate a players talents. Easier to just pick up new players and watch them wash out the next year because the coach can't develop players.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541
Goal
|
|
Goal
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 541 |
the club model in the usa is based on winning and money not player development. even odp (supposed pathway to the national team) has a big cost associated with it. plus, odp has really become a recruiting tool for college coaches and nothing to do with player development or identification.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
Your generalization is not applicable to the USSF Development Academy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
|
|
world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
Quote:
the club model in the usa is based on winning and money not player development. even odp (supposed pathway to the national team) has a big cost associated with it. plus, odp has really become a recruiting tool for college coaches and nothing to do with player development or identification.
If the club model is not based on player development, how long do you really think they are going to succeed? Don't you think that CESA and SCU are investing resources into the younger age groups to ensure that the tradition continues? Don't you think CESA and SCU are training young players to play "the correct way"......or is your contention that they are just getting bigger, faster, stronger kids and rolling them out on to the field to "overpower" the opposition?
If the big clubs aren't developing players, and succeeding, then don't you think players and parents will eventually go somewhere else?
If a guy at "Hartsville United" or "Laurens Soccer Academy" trains and coaches teams that start winning State Cups, people will flock to play there. Until then, it is still the CESA's and the SCU's that win the titles and get players into competitive tournaments like CASL and Disney.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281 |
You could argue, however, that the big clubs get alot (or several) of the best players from smaller clubs because those individuals want to win a state cup or play in premier league. I would be interested to see how many kids on the U16 and up teams developed at smaller, less successful clubs and then moved for the success? No doubt, the big clubs are training their kids, but they are also very good at convincing/recruiting the best to play for them.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Oh Hursty, I expected so much more ...
Have you ever looked at a roster closely? How many players from the immediate community?
For homework, compare a roster at U13 and then again at U16.
Recruiting.
If development was taking place, would recruitment be necessary?
Yes. I know. There are exceptions.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
20K refers to the number of club players in SC.
I see your argument. But I still believe it is coaches who dictate travel.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
"If the club model is not based on player development, how long do you really think they are going to succeed?"
An interesting question. What exactly is the club model? And how do clubs define success? Clubs have different missions and measure themselves accordingly.
I know of clubs that exist because they want to grow and deepen the player pool for the local high schools they serve.
I know of clubs that exist becasue they are trying to bring competitve soccer to kids who currently can't afford to play.
Big clubs like CESA and SCU.....exist to be all things to their customers. To a Premier family......the objective is to win, period. States, Regions, Nationals. Thats why they recruit kids in from outside of their normal area. To a Challenge family it might be to provide value via reasonably high quality training and competition without the cost and pressure of being on a Premier team. CESA is also focussed on building large recreational and adult programs.
Those are 3 different club models who would absolutely define "success" differently. And while development is a part of all three.....where it pegs out from a priority perspective is going to differ. If your objective is to win....then development,while important, still takes a back seat to the more quantifiable objective of winning.
Its interesting to me in looking at USSF Academy rosters in Charlotte......to see the number of kids who cut their teeth at smaller clubs. Not a majority by any means....but still a surprisingly high number.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261
corner kick
|
|
OP
corner kick
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 261 |
Our CESA premier team actually did better when we had just upstate players playing together, and that's not to say the players from the other parts of the state were not equal or better. When we started adding players from the coast and midlands we didn't win state for 3 years in a row. I would go to the practices and there would be maybe 8 premier players from our team practicing. The out of town players from our team would practice in their hometown with a group of different aged CESA players. There's not alot of continuity when the full team only practices 1 day a week together. How many athletic teams that you know do this? Do you think CESA looked at player development on this one or do you think there more interested in expansion of their club.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 270 |
Quote:
Your generalization is not applicable to the USSF Development Academy.
I know we are all painting with broad strokes here, but if are referring to SCU, well, then it applies! Just a matter of degrees.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
Our CESA premier team actually did better when we had just upstate players playing together, and that's not to say the players from the other parts of the state were not equal or better. When we started adding players from the coast and midlands we didn't win state for 3 years in a row. I would go to the practices and there would be maybe 8 premier players from our team practicing. The out of town players from our team would practice in their hometown with a group of different aged CESA players. There's not alot of continuity when the full team only practices 1 day a week together. How many athletic teams that you know do this? Do you think CESA looked at player development on this one or do you think there more interested in expansion of their club.
I think the answer to your question is perfectly obvious. It is 100% geared towards winning.
But here's an intersting thought....from the clubs perspective the out of town player is picked to help the team win championships.
But why does an out of town player choose CESA?
I know lots of kids who bypass an Academy team to travel to Greenville to play for CESA. Obviously......they see value.
What logical person consciously chooses a harder route unless they see benefit?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 404 |
I am referring to the program as a whole and to SCUFC-DA. You are more than welcome to try to back up your assertion with facts. Our program is entirely about player development. And, the notion that money is a driver of our program is laughable.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
"What logical person consciously chooses a harder route unless they see benefit?"
Maybe they aren't necessarily logical people. Some time ago, I listed various reasons why "an out of town player [might] choose CESA."
Personally, I believe that if any parent is currently driving their child past an Academy team to play for cesa, they either:
- Feel their child would not get enough playing time with the Academy (that feeling based on current rosters and/or a lack of knowlege with how the Academy is set up)
- Have some personal issues (with certain coaches/clubs) they can't figure out how to overcome (or just aren't willing to because of their egos/pride), and/or
- Just plain don't understand the concept behind the Academy (or refuse to accept the value of it)
Since then, I've come up with other reasons why a parent might do so, but the above is plenty enough fuel to fire up people here, so I'll just leave it at that.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Belligerent,
I have a son in the Academy.......but I have good friends with very talented kids who chose CESA over Academy. They did it because they felt their kids had a better shot at going to the schools they wanted to go to via CESA, becasue of the coach involved.
So to your 3 reasons for bypassing the Academy, in fairness you need to a 4th. Which is, a parents honest perspective that it is better.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 271
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 271 |
Since the objective seems to be playing in college does anyone know 2011 and 2012 committments for SCUDA vs. CESA?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654 |
daddy, like i said, maybe they aren't necessarily logical people; or, maybe #3 above applies.
i know people who committed to div 1 schools while not playing academy, and their future college coach basically told them that they will be playing academy their senior year of high school.
i'm sure there are plenty of reasons i can't think of, but the only ones i come up with at the moment for why your buddies think they have a better shot at a school by playing at cesa is 1) the school is in cesa's backyard, or 2) the college coach and cesa docs are, you know, real tight.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
|
|
hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Actually they are very logical people.
The 2 reasons listed in your 3rd paragraph are a lot closer to their thinking than the three reasons you listed in your earlier post.....which may apply to some folks, but aren't remotely close to my friends at all.
|
|
|
|
