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I was reading through the SCSYA site, looking at all the new personnel changes, and the "regional" aspect to ODP, (three teams in every age group to start) rather than one, caught my eye.
I think this is an excellent idea, that it will bring more kids to the talent pool..thoughts?
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I think they will have a hard time finding enough kids for 3 teams in each age group....
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It's an interesting idea. Do we we have enough talent for 3 teams at each age group? Is it better to field one really good ODP team or 3 mediocre/below average teams where the best talent is spread out amongst the 3? Tough questions.
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This was how ODP use to be and maybe they are going back to this type format.
Step 1 – tryouts in each region (Piedmont, Midlands, Coastal) and team selected for each
Step 2 – combined tryout with 3 teams in Columbia
Step 3 – final state team selected to attend region camp
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For the younger age groups I think coaches have been fielding multiple teams which gives more players the opportunity and doesn't burn them(by not making a team) at an early age. I think the older the kids get the harder it will be to field mulitiple teams. I also liked the head coaches exclusively coming from South Carolina colleges, now it will also include high school coaches and club DOC's.
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How will the Developmental Team for the 99 and 00 players work? Do they play games, or just practice? As to the multiple teams, the 96 Boys had two teams and it seemed to work out pretty well at regionals last summer.
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00 Wow am I getting old. 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Not enough talent in SC for 3 teams in each age group.With the low number of kids that tryout in each age group you would have to keep most of the kids that tryout to fill 3 teams. Not much difference than what has been done in past years with the teams going to sub reginals. What happens if you have 30 kids tryout in the upstate and you only have 15 tryout in the lower state.Do you cut 15 players from the upstate tryouts to make a team and keep all that tried out in the lower state. I'm sure it is safe to say that some of the cut upstate kids would be better than some of those that made the team in the lower state. You will have a weaker state team than what you have now. with the 96 girls you have a very good team. I'm sure there is a player or two that has been over looked at this age but if this new way is how it will be done you may see a weaker team.
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I do like the idea of tryouts being earlier in the year.
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Why not select the best players no matter where they are from..Upstate teams are good but let's remember a potion of those players come from other states and even some from lowerstate..I would not say that the upper state has the handle on talent in SC..They do have some of the most talented teams..Any reorganization of the ODP system has to be an improvement..For the girls mostly..
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They'll never get the girls that now play in the ECNL league back to ODP. My daughter and another girl were the only ones that played both in ECNL and ODP last year from their CESA team. To much $$$$ for the same exposure to colleges. Soccer overkill at its best.
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Why not select the best players no matter where they are from..Upstate teams are good but let's remember a potion of those players come from other states and even some from lowerstate..I would not say that the upper state has the handle on talent in SC..They do have some of the most talented teams..Any reorganization of the ODP system has to be an improvement..For the girls mostly..
You may of missed my point. Im not saying that the upstate has all the best players.I'm just saying that if you make 3 teams in a age group. One from the upstate,mid and lower you may have good players cut from one team that are better than players that make it for one of the other teams just because of numbers.I'm not sure how this system will put all the best players on the final team.
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I don't think they have to worry about three teams in the older age groups..I believe teams should be picked by trainers and then assigned to a coach..This would make it alittle more level playing field..Whatever the state does is going to take time to grow..Nothing is going to happen overnight and the attitudes towards ODP has to change..The only thing that will change that is to see some progress..
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the impression that i get is that they'll pull a regional team from the three, but i think it gives more kids exposure to better coaching.
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does anyone know the approximate cost of the developemental team for the 99 and 00's?
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the impression that i get is that they'll pull a regional team from the three, but i think it gives more kids exposure to better coaching.
From what i understand they will have one final team. I still have a problem with a team from each area. Again, if 30 kids try out in one area and only 15 are kept you are going to have kids in that area that were cut that are better than the ones who made the team in another area that maybe had 20 tryout.
Im not sure what is wrong with having tryouts and more practices so all kids get a look and the coaches get more time to evaluate the players before deciding on a final team.
with this 3 team set up you are going to have lesser skilled players making a team because of low turnout in that region and better skilled players not making a team in their region for the same reason.
Leave it the way it is now just practice more so everyone gets more than a one day tryout.
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Lets look at the price. $250.00 - $300.00 sub-regional, ODP region camp $800.00. Am i missing any other costs? You can go at least two maybe three college camps for the cost of ODP.Have done this route and was a good experience at the younger ages but the older the player becomes i begin to wonder if its a good economical decision. Also, dont forget the political aspect as well!
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My impression is that the proposed changes are largely cosmetic, with little or no bottom-line implication for most kids. I hope I'm wrong.
Let's start with the name: Olympic Development Program. Olympic? Not. Development? Not in my experience. Program? To me, that word implies exactly the uniformity and quality of evaluation and coaching ACROSS GENDERS AND AGE GROUPS that's clearly lacking in SC ODP as it's currently constituted.
Don't get me wrong. ODP can be a very good experience, if your child draws the right, motivated, capable and committed coach. It can also be very frustrating for kids who aren't on the right preliminary list or radar screen, and therefore never get a fair shot.
As a parent, all you can do (other than spend oodles on demosphere) is hope your kid draws the right coach and doesn't get buried behind last year's flavor of the month.
If that concerns you, ask questions of your CLUB and local COLLEGE coaches. Listen closely to the answers.
If you're not convinced, set aside the grand or so you might spend on ODP and invest in a couple of high-quality residency camps.
In the space of 14 days this past summer, my child attended BOTH Region Camp in Tuscaloosa and a college camp attended by kids from three countries and 10 states, with coaches from five colleges on hand.
Guess which experience was more worthwhile.
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The regionam system would seem to facilitate more practices. In past years sone teams were based in Greenville or Charleston giving some players long trips for practices. There should also be fewer club conflicts within each region. So, more practices and less travel would seem to be a positive. Whether one region is so lopsided with talent that its players who don't make the cut are better than those selected in the other regions remains to be seen, but I suspect that choosing 3 regional teams will result in more players included at each level. I've never counted. Does one region currently produce much more than a third of the players on the current teams?
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The regionam system would seem to facilitate more practices. In past years sone teams were based in Greenville or Charleston giving some players long trips for practices. There should also be fewer club conflicts within each region. So, more practices and less travel would seem to be a positive. Whether one region is so lopsided with talent that its players who don't make the cut are better than those selected in the other regions remains to be seen, but I suspect that choosing 3 regional teams will result in more players included at each level. I've never counted. Does one region currently produce much more than a third of the players on the current teams?
So how will all this end up. Are we going to have three teams, one from each region and the top players from those three teams make the state team. Or do we just have region tryouts and each region is considerd a team and then the best players from each region makes the state team.
Now i assume there are different coaches from each region so who has the final say in who makes it. sounds like to me all this is doing is giving a player that is not good eneough to make the team a better chance. someone said not to forget about the political aspect of this. seems it will be even more political now that you will have state region coaches with their own team picked from their own club team with the imput of their club parents. then u will have a watered down state team with good players being left off. sounds more political now and some power struggles that will go on within the regions.
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Very well said. My daughter has participated in SC ODP for two years ... it became obvious to HER this year that most players on the team are on there to make the few on the "preliminary list" look good.....
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The politics of ODP speak for themselves. When it is in an evaluator's best ECONOMIC interest to be able to say "X" number of players from HIS club made holdover camp, does anyone here really think he WON'T promote his own at the expense of others?
In my opinion, club-tied coaches should recuse themselves from evaluating and promoting their own kids AS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE.
Also, at the end of camp in Tuscaloosa, each kid should walk away with a comprehensive written evaluation, SIGNED by the evaluating coach/es. This would ensure a level of accountability currently non-existent in ODP, while simultaneously giving each kid a worksheet and plan for (dare I say?) development.
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I also do not think three teams will be any benefit. Don't we already have that with club soccer. The ODP team should be a collection of the best players across the state. The Girls 92 ODP team was one of the better ODP experiences. Up until the last year when too many players couldn't rationalize the cost/benefit basis, you had a high calibre group that enjoyed getting together because of the level of play was higher than their individual club teams. They had consistency in college coaches that taught them not only technical and tactical items but how to be a good team mate and play as a team. Things like you never yell/criticize a teammate but tell them what they are doing good while suggesting improvement or change in something else. You don't get "team" play experience from a college camp. One of the early years as a team they had a taped evaluation by one of the UNC coaches. They not only had the opportunity to ask questions but had a chance to hear an honest evaluation of them as a player by a college coach. ODP program should really incorporate that process every year. The only complaints from the 92 group was not enough practices and the expense. If SC could fund the ODP team through a fundraiser or some other means, then I would think you would truly get the best players across the state versus the good players that could afford it. It truly can be a great experience and hopefully they don't end up watering it down by trying to have three teams etc. It should be an honor to make the team and affordable for all.
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I agree with a lot of your post, with one small exception. You can get a "team" experience at a college camp, just not all college camps.
As to ODP, every effort should be made to:
Assure the presence of fully qualified and committed coaches; assure a certain minimum/maximum number of training sessions; assure consistency of evaluation at all levels; and de-politicize the selection process.
As someone who has coached multiple sports at several levels, I can tell you that a random workout in December, followed by a few "games" in January, is not enough to evaluate accurately. That's one reason why reputation and club "push" come into play so often.
Of course, it also helps to have your coach actually attend the Winston-Salem activity, if you get my drift.
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Look at state representation at holdover camps. Then look to see not only who the region coach is but also where the (state) the ODP assistant coach is from and the state the region staff coaches are from.South Carolina may be small but it does have enough good players to have more than zero or one player on region teams on both the girls and boys side.
I guess when you have more SC coaches involved then we will have more SC players being recognized, this may be a sad statement but a true one.
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I well remember being at an R3PL game in Fall 2009, when I came across a guy poring over a book of charts and lists. When I asked him what he was doing, he told me he was an ODP Region evaluator. When I asked him what he thought of some of the player's on my child's team -- several of whom had been in holdover camp a few months earlier -- he pretty much told me there wasn't much there, and that he was there to evaluate CASL players. Which I found interesting, given his CASL staff shirt.
Think about it. Rather than evaluating kids he didn't know or couldn't see regularly, he was evaluating (and promoting) kids he had probably seen 20 times already.
Conflict of interest?
Now, let me tell you what I saw in Tuscaloosa each of the last 2 years; i.e., a raft of mistakes BOTH ways with kids from all states. Obvious prospects passed over; obvious suspects held over; IN ALL AGE GROUPS OBSERVED.
This is not a problem unique to South Carolina, but rather, inherent in a pay-to-play system where coaches and trainers gain credibility based on the number of THEIR players held over.
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They can try to restructure girls ODP all they want.SC still won't have the best girls from the state on one team. There were scheduling conflicts with CESA's ECNL league and SC ODP last year. The kids and parents that participate in ECNL won't be participating in ODP. It would be a very interesting conversation between a CESA club coach/director and a parent , telling them they can't attend an ECNL event because of ODP. That's funny.
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I think listing SC ODP on a soccer resume should mean something. I think each SC ODP state team should be made up of the best players from the state. Letting clubs have input is definitely going to lead to nepatism (sp?) I feel that when it comes to something like this, only the best players should be on the team. Keeping more than one team takes away from the credibility of SC ODP. I agree, some people do get overlooked, some people are kept for political reasons, but, for the most part, it is up to the individual player to standout. That is not possible when everyone who tries out makes the team.
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If you want the best female players in the state why would you schedule tryouts for the same time as the CASL tournament? Won't the best players in SC be at CASL?
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In the end, the problem starts at the top with USSoccer and US Youth Soccer. They have their own agendas with their own leagues. The only way to truly get everything organized would be for those at the top to get together and develop a single system that everyone has to use or be shunned.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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CID , you know that would be way to easy of a thing to do! Alot of this territorial BS would go away if you locked these people in a room for a couple days they could talk over there differences and do whats best for the kids and not for themselves.However, doing what makes sense or doing what clearly is right lots of times doesn't happen.
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If you want the best female players in the state why would you schedule tryouts for the same time as the CASL tournament? Won't the best players in SC be at CASL?
Greenacres i know over the last few years cesa teams have not attended casl. I think it is safe to say that not many if any SC teams are being accepted or invited to the casl tourny.Just not good enough. The ECNL has their event the same weekend while casl is going on. I may be wrong but i dont think it is part of the casl tourny. So i'm not sure any of the sc players will be there.
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Some teams will be in Raleigh..Let's see how it has changed..Tryouts in Dec Subregionals in Jan and camp in June..Six months of soccer..Practices once maybe twice a month..As I recall,our neighboring states has tryouts in the summer and has atleast six months of club soccer under their belts before we have tryouts..They get a year of training and we get six months at best..Has that changed and if not..What's wrong with this picture?
I have to agree with Cid..If you want this thing to work..It's going to have to come from higher up than our state
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The sad truth is: ODP as previously constituted and newly envisioned, is a seriously flawed system for talent recognition and development. We can list a multitude of reasons -- politics, poor evaluation system, inconsistent quality of coaching, lack of clearly defined mission and standards, cost vs. benefit, etc. This thread is already four takes long.
That said, ODP can be a positive experience, when planets align. The fundamental idea is good. But in our state, anyway, the execution and follow-through don't measure up.
As parents, it's up to us to INSIST on change, and not take no for an answer. It's easy to get discouraged. When I approached a state ODP higher-up with a critical retrospective of my child's experience, the first thing he said was, "sour grapes." When I took the time to convince him otherwise, I still didn't get solid answers.
All I can say is, maybe it will change. But the key isn't to expand and bloat a non-working system. Rather, it's to envision and enact a new system that values QUALITY, CONSISTENCY and TRANSPARENCY over sheer numbers. Deliever those three key elements, and the numbers will take care of themselves.
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Yes, It can be a positive experience..but most measure the positive by wins and losses..Not development of the player..Think about it..We would not need all the best players if the development was there at the younger ages..
Bringing the best players in is giving us what?
The best chance to win? I thought it was about development
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Your point is excellent. Take a look at the SCYSA sight's summary of 2010 ODP, and you'll see comments about Ws and Ls. The more relevant outcome is player development. Did we identify the right kids, treat them correctly, and DEVELOP them as players and people?
All too often, the answer is no. Or worse. The highly politicized ODP experience often discourages kids or turns them off. Trust me, "elite-level" kids know who can and CAN'T play. They're accustomed to a certain level of coaching. When an ODP coach doesn't show up regularly or on time, selects the wrong kids, plays them in the wrong positions, verbally berates them, and then holds them to a presumed higher standard ...
THAT'S a cluster.
And yet, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that same coach is back next year.
Accountability?
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I don't have the time to find the post but this in reference to the college coaches comment ...
Note: There are always exceptions to the rule, and certainly examples that will without a doubt prove the following wrong, but it should still be considered food for thought...
A college coach defined:
Play 4 years of college. Become a volunteer / grad assistant for 2-4 years. Be appointed a head coach of a small college. (Certainly prevalent in SC).
And this person is more qualified how?
Or alternatively, Mr. DI Head Coach deems it necessary that his assistant (who is a past player with 2-4 years of coaching experience) be annointed as an ODP Head Coach for recruiting purposes. Again, this is appropriate how?
As stated, just food for thought!
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Recos, well said ! This topic starts to smell after a few pages ,you know.
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Some teams will be in Raleigh..Let's see how it has changed..Tryouts in Dec Subregionals in Jan and camp in June..Six months of soccer..Practices once maybe twice a month..As I recall,our neighboring states has tryouts in the summer and has atleast six months of club soccer under their belts before we have tryouts..They get a year of training and we get six months at best..Has that changed and if not..What's wrong with this picture?
I have to agree with Cid..If you want this thing to work..It's going to have to come from higher up than our state
which sc teams are going?
has a list already been posted of accepted teams?
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Do not know of the lists being posted yet..check your pm
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Deadline for CASL is OCT 1. Maybe have a list out by mid to late OCT. ECNL and NL will be at CASL this year.
Last edited by Bonz; 09/30/10 11:47 AM.
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They can try to restructure girls ODP all they want.SC still won't have the best girls from the state on one team. There were scheduling conflicts with CESA's ECNL league and SC ODP last year. The kids and parents that participate in ECNL won't be participating in ODP. It would be a very interesting conversation between a CESA club coach/director and a parent , telling them they can't attend an ECNL event because of ODP. That's funny.
The only way SC will ever get all the best players on an ODP team is to start having ODP tryouts be invitation only and all expenses paid for players that make the team. 
That there is an RV Clark......
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I agree with that. Also there are too many venues and leagues for the premier soccer player anymore. From u16 - u18 you have premier league, ECNL, ODP, Tournaments. There's no focus on developement, training, conditioning anymore, the focus is just on how many games you can play. If you ask any "REAL" qualified director or coach what makes an athlete succesful they'll tell you it's the time spent on the practice field. I've seen over the past few years the emphasis of these clubs and organizations is only to make money. When we first started playing premier the cost was around $75 a month, if we would of played this year it was $225 per month. When we first started in ODP regional camp was around $395, it is now over $700. The only way youth soccer will get back to development of youths playing soccer is to get rid of the directors of these organizations who only see dollar signs. They've lost their focus.
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