SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP ODP, The more things change the more things stay the same

Sent today from SC ODP Administrator this afternoon.

ODP UPDATE
After receiving literally hundreds of emails and speaking with dozens of parents on the phone we have decided to make a change in the place and date of ODP tryouts. We are making this move as a reflection of our commitment of moving to a District Team based Program.
The ODP tryouts will now be on Saturday 4 December at Carolina Elite Soccer Academy's MESA complex. The CESA complex, one of the finest soccer complexes in Region III, is also the host of the Region III Southern Tournament in June 2012, so this should be a great venue for South Carolina's ODP tryouts. This tryout will be open for all South Carolina players from birth year 2000 - 1994. Boys will be from 10:00 am - 1:00pm and girls will be from 2:00pm - 5:00 pm.
We are currently in the process of determining where, in the Costal District, the makeup date practice will be.
We are aware of the ongoing issues of registering birth year 2000 players (the term longsuffering comes to mind). If you have an issue send me an email and I will forward it to our ODP Registrar.

Why not let CESA just pick whom they want on ODP and tell the rest of the state what is left to fight over. Would save alot of time and gas.

Not sure why the change except that now you are at a soccer complex and not in the back yard of a prison. Lex fields were ok. Both places are the same distance from me so either one does not matter. I figured somebody would bring CESA into this like the columbia parent did. If i am correct there were only 2 CESA players on the 96 girls team. Maybe someone out there has a club break down.I guess the Columbia people will be upset. Now it is not down the street from their house where they can walk to tryouts and now they have to get up early like the rest of us did and drive across the state.STOP THE WHINNING.

Aren't the two ODP tryouts scheduled on the same dates as the first round and final round of State Cup? or am I missing something?

No problem with MESA..would drive there in a skinny minute..But the location should be in the Cola area..If you want to draw more players into a program the tryouts should be more...driver friendly..How do you pick a coastal team when tryouts are in the upstate?
An Idea..Have three tryouts..one in each district..More players would show up..

Well, if you suddenly had large numbers of players trying out for ODP, it would be much harder to cite the "small player pool" as the biggest challenge to SC soccer and maintain that the only hope of success lies in further consolidation under a single banner.

C'mon, CHT, try to keep up.

Once again, these are purely COSMETIC changes, intended to:

1) Increase participation (and thus income); and
2) Defuse the naysayers with a "new" system.

I will state again, for the record:

ODP in not Olympic, surely isn't developmental, and lacks the vision and consistency of a program.

So, what is it?

My kid was on the fence about trying out this year until I read him the email. Now he is not trying out. They always said that ODP was in CESA backpocket.

HH-believe CUnited is from another town that starts with a C

LeGazie-could never figure out why they have tryouts on the same day as State Cup. Do you really think that kids who just played a very intense hard game is showing up to tryouts with their A game?

ODP is in CESA's back pocket? No one has compalined about a SC United coach being on staff for the past three years. Who would have more impact for impropriety? The coach or the grass at MESA?

Before you start throwing that crap around look in your own back yard. I don't know of any CESA parents that didn't go to that age group because of this coach. He has done a good job and has more been committed to the program and the kids than a lot of other coaches, but then agan most CESA parents don't seem to be conspiracy theorists.

For the record, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I totally understand why coaches and evaluators support their own club's kids; i.e., because it benefits their reputations and incomes. It's kind of lousy and unprofessional, but it's only natural and to be expected. And CESA's aren't the only ones doing it!

That said, I DO think the entire ODP system in South Carolina needs a top-to-bottom makeover, with more consistency, transparency and professionalism as core values. For years, parents have been virtually excluded from all things SC ODP, except visiting demosphere or writing checks. My question to coaches is: If you can not openly and honestly support selection and PT decisions, then why have tryouts?

For those of us who can see and have a clue about competitive athletics, ODP is often (not always) a sham. And "often" is too often for me!

Do you think that it is fair for a lowcountry team that may host a first round game and then jump in the car for a 3.5 hr trip for TRYOUT for a State Team? Name any other sport that has their major event and a tryout on the same day. It just plain stupid!!! I could understand it if it was two differant organizations but it is not. Would love to know the demographics to all the people that has call or email the SC ODP Administrator calling for the change.

MPSC. I agree with you. No reason for that conflict.

Backscreen. For the record CESA does not have coaches on state teams. They have had some on region staff lately but not state teams.

My point is that CESA kids don't get a competitive advantage because the tryouts are at MESA. There are no CESA coaches holding tryouts. Now if you want to argue that CESA kids know the bounces and have that advantage I can't argue that. You got me on that one.

If the problem is travel then I see the point, but don't bring the CESA/ODP/backpocket thing in to this. It doesnt wash.

The CESA/ODP thing is a self-fulfilling prophesy. A lot of talented kids play at CESA.
That said, I bore witness to a CESA player being held over this past summer when the player was about the 8th-best performer on the team. Even the player was surprised to be held over, based on evaluations.
When I asked, I was told a CESA-affiliated evaluator went to bat HARD for the player. No knock on the player. Good kid. A generally solid player. But a poor week.
As to tryouts, my proposal is simple. Hold 3: one each in the Lowcountry, Midlands and Upstate. Mandate that each player attend 2 tryouts, thus eliminating any questions about home field. Assemble a balanced staff of evaluators, who recuse themselves from evaluating their own kids.
It ain't rocket science.

LD- been doing ODP for the last 5 years.....seen coaches go after players from CESA who did not try out or go to sub regional. I think that this is a move to reel in more CESA players. Think about it....CESA u15-18 will come out of R3p seeded 1 or 2 and will host. Might as well stay and try out.

The reality is, clubs in this state openly recruit, and use every tool at their disposal to do so. When I approached an SCYSA official about it, he pretty much blew me off.

Why is this relevant?

Nowadays, various organizations aren't selling a high-quality training experience and competitive league play; they're selling EXPOSURE to cash-strapped parents who are hoping against hope their kids will get an athletic grant-in-aid.

Coaches use their kids' promotion through the ODP ranks as a selling point for their clubs. I know because I've heard the rap.

Pretty pathetic, actually.

r u dreaming? clubs recruit in every state and probably more than here in sc. never heard of a club coach selling players odp success as a recuiting tool.

let your player make the decision to do or not do odp. odp is not for every player and not such a big deal anymore.

You summarized it perfectly: "a beauty contest." I hope and assume you're not 100% OK with that.

And who said it SHOULD be easy? My point is, the selection process as currently constituted includes little or no due diligence (calls to club coaches to confirm what you think you see during split-session, 3-hour tryouts); zero objective evaluation of key components of athleticism; and perhaps 5-10 minutes (at most) of genuine individual technical evaluation.

Conversely, it includes a lot of hyped reputation, looking at last year's team lists, and general grab-assing. "John Doe was held over last year. He MUST be good." (Except little Johnny hasn't grown or improved.) KIDS CHANGE!!! They grow. They get injured. They burn out. They have girl/boyfriends. They get distracted and sidetracked in a million and one ways. All I ask is that they DON'T get sidetracked by a crappy process.

I ask that evaluators have and use the time to form their own HONEST and CURRENT opinions -- not just go with the flow and what's been done before.

I've watched it long and hard, my friend, and that's NOT what's happening now.

What does recruitment have to do with ODP?
IF a club thinks they have more to offer a certain player why not recruit? Remember no one makes you play for a certain club..It's choices that players and parents make..
So the tryouts are at MESA...so what? That's a big change?
I'm looking for a program that is funded so those that can't afford it has the opportunity..How much does Landon pay for his training? This state needs to step outside the box..be proactive and make some REAL changes..Three teams from this state in every age group? Stop following the same old ideas and learn to lead and not follow..It's okay if we fail at it..At least we can say that we tried and maybe learn something from our mistakes..But how can we expect the state to get it right when we can't seem to find a common theme among ourselves? Don't get a chip on your shoulders...Just think about it..

I'm with you.
Though recruitment DOES have a lot to do with ODP when the recruiter is touting the number of kids from his club on the state ODP team (that, oh, by the way, he helped select).
But you're right on with the cost factor and getting outside the box. To me, many of this state's soccer lifers seem afraid to try, or even contemplate, anything genuinely different.
I actually have proactively and constructively approached these folks on several occasions, only to be told what we CAN'T do ... as opposed to what we CAN try.
One more thing: honorable disagreement HERE is NOT a bad thing. Dialogue leads to solution.

It ain't dreaming when they've sold it to you!

Agreed..I don't think the state is looking to this forum for answers..My daughter played three years for ODP..The team had 22 or 23 players..The two strongest club teams in her age group had a combined seven..maybe eight players from those two teams on the state team..Far more players choose not to do ODP than we think..Three coaches that we had..Only one was affiliated with a well known soccer club and all three were college head coaches and to the best of my knowledge none of these players have had offers from these coaches...Two coaches now coach outside of the state as assistants..

1- December 4th is an SCYSA weeekend for first round of state challenge cup
2- Dec 4 and 5 is also the CASL girls weekend.... different issue

You would think that SCYSA would actually look at their schedule... at min it should be moved to Dec 5th.

And don't give me the "play during the week stuff". imagine a kid that has to drive 3hrs one way (roughly 7.5 hrs with game included)to go play a game on a school night potentially during the time of exams. Some may be able to study in the car, most will not

Somewhere in here here was a post that I think said that clubs promote their ODP players and somehow being a holdover goes hand in hand with the club you play for. I have observed the exact opposite. I have watched ODP holdovers not be posted on the club website. I have watched jealous club parents and players go out of their way to "freeze out" the holdover. Actually, I have seen clubs not be supportive at all of ODP. There are clubs that have "managers" whose kids play on the top team that really shouldn't be, players whose parents give much time and money to the club, thus, securing their spot on the top team and all clubs have that "good" kid that really doesn't have the talent to play on the top team. I fear that the truly gifted player who does not have a lot of money or who the club team's parents and players have chosen to resent will not have a fair chance in ODP with club influence. ODP is the opportunity to play with the best players in the state. It will not be this with club influence. I fear that it will be more people making it because of who they are rather than how they play and even more frustrating for those who are the best players in the state.

btw: December 4 is ECNL, CASL, and State Cup! Many of the best players in the state will be unable to attend try-outs. I can't wait to read the posts when they all have to go to the make-up try-out and possibly get rostered for the sub-regional in January! I think try-outs should be in November this year...like they used to be

Anyone here actually think SCYSA will get it?

Everything is CESA's fault. If I hear this litany one more time, My head will explode. My son played for Columbia Soccer/Columbia United for the past 13 years, the last 6 at the elite level. All I heard was CESA this and CESA that. From the board, coaches, parents, on down to the players.

One of the main problems with ODP (and there are many as this blog has brought out} is the lack of support on the club/team coach level. In all of the years my son was eligible for ODP, not one coach encouraged/spoke to him or his team about ODP. Look at club websites and see how many promote ODP. The only mention on SC United's website that I could find was one of their players making Region.

This past year the 93 boys state team had 20 players rostered. Most were from the upstate (Greenville and Rock Hill, CESA influence again). Only 10 went to Region Camp. The team took on the 4 players from Georgia to make a team. Seems that GA has its problems too.

Columbia United (SC United) has 5 U-17 teams this season. Thats around 90 players of 93's and 94's. Add the 93's playing U-18 and the 94's playing U-16, and the # becomes around 150 or more players. Guess how many tried out for ODP last year. Three. One 93 and two 94's. That is atrocious.

Many at SC United have put all of their eggs in the Developmental Academy basket and think that ODP should just go away. And without support, maybe it will. Let's face it: The Academy is not for every player. There are only so many spots on the Academy roster. Whether it be Classic League, Challenge League, Region III Premier, Atlantic Soccer League, National League, or ODP, there are many venues where good players can participate and develop. There is a place for ODP. It could be so much more than it is. But first it needs support.

SCYSA member clubs should be made to lend support. To be sanctioned by SCYSA, all clubs should participate and support all of SCYSA's programs. Maybe each club should be mandated to fill a minimum # of slots per age group based on the size of the club at ODP tryouts. But, with this mandated participation, the clubs should require a total revamp of the program.

Another problem is tryouts. I am amazed at how the state organization and coaches can expect to meet with players from across the state for 3 hours on a Saturday morning, watch 100 players in an age group play 8v8, and choose a state team, giving every kid who shows up an equal chance. Rightly or wrongly, parents and players leave these tryouts feeling the game is rigged.

I don't know who on the state level is in control of ODP. But they need new blood to give a new vision of what ODP is and what it could be for the players of SC. Maybe an advisory board of those who don't have a vested interest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting those who have worked so hard in the past for SC ODP. But there are new challenges facing the program and unless the powers that be sit down and take a long hard look at ODP and revamp the program, it will continue to be so much less than it could be. And the losers are not the administrators, directors, coaches, parents -- the losers are the young boys and girls who are being shortchanged.

Everything is CESA's fault. (i just love fireworks, brains exploding, etc...)

Anyone hear from SCYSA yet on the conflict with state cup playoffs?

But, seriously…

Now, this is not for the girl's side, but for the boys, some of your questions about ODP might be answered if you 1) read a little about why the Development Academy was created, and 2) look at US Soccer's organizational structure.

From this information, two things seem obvious (to me): 1) US Soccer created the Development Academy because ODP was/is not producing the results that were anticipated when it was created more than thirty years ago, and 2) US Soccer is not going to put a whole lot of time/effort/money into a program it has deemed "unsuccessful" and has created a replacement for (IMO).


If anyone is interested…

Here is an overview of the Development Academy: http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/Development-Academy/Academy-Overview.aspx

Here is the Org Chart for US Soccer: http://www.ussoccer.com/About/About-Home/Organizational-Structure.aspx

Tryouts are not necessarily the same date as the first round of state cup. First round games are to be played between November 29th and December 4th. I can't wait to hear the complaints about teams traveling to play on school nights. However, I am sure that most of the top girls teams will be attending CASL/ECNL that weekend which will obviously take the best girls out of the tryouts that day.

Belligerent - as unusual as it is, agreed again.

First, before I go too much further, I need to state some assumptions before getting to the meat of it.

1) I thought the ECNL is a US Club Soccer iniative, not USYS.
2) I thought the organizers of the ECNL were trying to model more closely the Development Academy - where ODP participation will not be allowed.

So, if either of these is incorrect, disregard the rest.

There is significant talk of conflict of scheduling the ODP tryouts when it's an ENCL event weekend, leading to the statement many of the best girls in the state will not be at tryouts. Could it be this is a passive aggressive attempt by SCYS (USYS) to force players to make the choice by having a conflicting tryout? Much like the non - affliated play insurance thing. Or is it that they know since the players that are participating in the ECNL, don't need to be there anyway, so it doesn't matter if the conflict exists.

If it is a passive aggressive attempt by SCYS..I believe they are wasting their time..If the girls were made to choose I think the state would be on the losing end..I think the latter to be more probable..The girls don't have to attend or they show up for the make up day..

Bear, so you think everything is CESA's fault, too?

I did not see that one coming...

This isn't about CESA. It's about ODP.
The earlier reference to tryouts SEEMING rigged is bang-on. There's no way the current tryout "format" can do anything but confirm evaluators' preconceived notions of players' abilities.
In some instances, those notions are no longer valid. In others, they never were.
I have observed ODP for a mere three seasons, including 3 trips to W-S and 2 to Tuscaloosa. During that short time, in one gender/age group, I've seen a bunch of poor choices by evaluators NOT INVOLVING MY KID. When you see a lot of seemingly inexplicable mistakes by supposedly professional evaluators, you eventually ask yourself, why?
My conclusion is that the tryout process is flawed, a situation made worse by club-affiliated evaluators hyping their own.
The solutions are obvious and simple: Change the tryout format. Require that club coaches recuse themselves from discussions of their own kids.
That neither is even considered by the powers that be tells you everything you need to know.

It's easy to see what's happening here. CESA is using the odp tryout venue as a recruiting tool. Their pulling out of premier league and state championships (all scysa events) after this year in favor of ECNL for girls. Since we've been in CESA they've never pushed ODP on us. We had a ECNL event in Seattle last year that conflicted with ODP region camp. CESA made it real clear they wanted the girls in Seattle. I'm sure CESA is thinking that they can recruit more midlands and coastal players to CESA by showcasing their facilities. Also, I would think CESA is just keeping SCYSA happy until after the big Regional tournament in 2011 at MESA.

Players should be scouted and evaluated in their regular environment.

There should be no additional cost to players for scouting and identification.

To insure accurate evaluations, players should be evaluated by multiple people over multiple events.

To insure accurate evaluations, the coaches that train and develop the identified players should be consulted as the best source of information regarding overall ability, mentality, and current form.

Dawgs,first off, I know that the Buckeye loss still smarts but I'm sure they will rebound. Second, if you have a problem with the games being played at MESA then you need to contact the people in Columbia, not Greenville. Thirdly, in every age group in every gender in every state club takes priority over ODP. People chose not to go to Seattle for various reasons.Not sure you wanna go there.

I could care less where they have tryouts, I don't have one in the game anymore. I'm just giving my opinion why they are moving ODP tryouts to the northwest part of the state instead of keeping them in the central location like Columbia. Once all the CESA premier girls get involved in ECNL their won't be time for ODP anymore. Again I think CESA is using it as a recruiting tool to showcase their facilities to the families from the midlands and the coast. If they can recruit a handful of top players from the midlands and the coast there won't be enough top girl players to field a quality ODP team, and it will go away. Remember CESA has all their eggs in the Member Soccer Club run ECNL, not SCYSA. Just my opinion. What's yours? I am still hurting from the Chokeyes!

I agree that tryouts should be in a more central location so most share in the travel..But..I don't think there are enough quality players now in ODP..Some just choose not to play..The program is not strong and building..It just treads water and we just make excuses why it has never moved forward..They try different things but not anything that will make any kind of significant impact..Some girls just want the time off..I think the days of parents driving across state will dwindle down..Just my opinion but we are half way thru the fall season and the message board has grown very quiet..There's no my team or club can beat your team or this or that team cheated..I don't know what it indicates...Maybe parents are growing up and has left us old timers here to debate back and forth.
Let's just say the ole message board ain't what she use to be..

My acronym is of higher intrinsic value than your acronym. And if you can't get fired up and passionate to argue about that, I guess you just don't love soccer.

Chass,
You following me or what?
Your acronym better than mine? You keep livin that dream..

Which begs the question:
Acrimony or Acronym?
I'm afraid the point is, more effort is put toward making money than making players.
The more you follow youth soccer, the more stories you hear about overlooked/unrecognized/discouraged kids ... only a select few of whom have the courage/support/$$$/luck to persevere and survive a crappy system.
Forget the other "organizations."
Though physically impossible, ODP would stink in a vaccuum.

Hey, man, when it comes to acronyms, it's about quality of letters, not quantity.

From the SCYS ODP page:

September 15, 2010 ODP Tryout Registration Forms Available

December 5, 2010 Boys ODP Tryout - 9:00am-12:00pm @ BB&T Complex, Columbia
Girls ODP Tryout - 1:00pm-5:00pm @ BB&T Complex, Columbia

December 18, 2010 Boys & Girls ODP Tryout Make-up & Rain Date

January 7-9, 2011 Boys & Girls ODP Sub Regional Games

January 21-23, 2011 Boys & Girls Sub Regional Rain Date

June 30 - July 16, 2011 Boys & Girls US Youth Soccer ODP

Have they moved the tryouts back to Columbia or have they just not updated the page?

The SCYS BOD are excited about the make-up of the committee and believe the collective soccer expertise will have an immediate impact on the ODP. The ODP Committee is made up of the following individuals:

Tripp Miller (Chair Person) – SCUFC Director of Soccer
Andrew Hyslop – CESA Co-Executive Director
Kian Brownlee – SCU-MP Director of Coaching
Ginio Volpe – President Long Bay Soccer Club
Niel Welborn – President, Discoveries Soccer Club
Justin Collett – Carolina FC Executive Director
Ralph Lundy – Head Coach College of Charleston
Van Taylor – SCYS Director of Coaching Development & Player Education
Allen Bishop – SCYS ODP Administrator


Kind of throws cold water on the conspiracy theories, doesn't it?

Some good and encouraging additions.

1 or 2 real head-scratchers.

As to conspiracy theories, my greatest hope is that this group fosters the kind of even-handedness, inclusion and transparency that's its predecessors (including some on the current list) didn't.