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In short, I don't need a 4-0 win over East Argybargy, followed by an 8-0 win over the same team two weeks later, to feel I've somehow "improved." I can see it in training.
Are you evaluated at work? Aren't the kids formally evaluated?
Do you really think that CESA is so random? I think organizationally CESA has very clear strategies and that their success is a result of those strategies. Yeah, its nice that a coach sees a kid getting better on the field, but why is that happening?
Club hires good coaches, club evaluates coaches and provides feedback on how to improve, club provides continual training to the coaches so they keep getting better. Club brings in new pedigreed coaches to ensure an influx of new ideas and training methods. Club continuously upgrading facilities and adding things like onsite athletic training and weightroom. Club takes teams on annual international trips for competition and team building. Etc etc etc etc etc. Could also add starting the CAP program, the annual player combine, etc.
These are organizational steps taken by 1 club to not only offer value to some, but to create a rising tide to lift all boats, at least those parked at their marina.
If the question of this thread was......why is CESA winning every State cup, I would expect what I wrote above to be partially responsible for why.
But the question was......is it good for soccer longterm in this state? Is it good for CESA, at least on the boys end? Now that they've conquered all within the state(except for the Academy kids)........how to keep getting better, if competition......is one of the forces that drives improvement?
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I believe the fact that CESA is run by a full time soccer staff is a huge factor in their success. The directors don't pay part time attention to their teams and the club, they do it all day everyday and are not limited by the time necessary to do their "real" job.
Agreed. I do think thats a big part of their success. Are they the only club in the state doing this? Not South Carolina United?
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brace
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The thread is now 7 takes long. Sorry we got off your track. You want competitive balance?
1) Club Directors should agree to work WITH, not AGAINST, each other with a goal of player development.
2) Clubs MUST stop recruiting each other's players (a scummy practice that smacks of commercial self-interest);
3) Parents must be constructively educated by a multi-club collective on the relative values of high-quality training (high) and winning (not wildly relevant); and
4) Clubs should mutually agree to a 90-mile-radius service area, or attendance zone, for their players, with kids OUTSIDE any zone limited to the closest club.
The sad truth is, we have DOZENS, maybe even HUNDREDS, of kids in this state who spend more time in cars traveling to and from training than actually training. That's an indictment of a system that is more concerned with profit and State Cups than the good of teenaged student-athletes.
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kick off
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CESA R3 results
u15 girls 1-5-5 (11th out of 12 teams)
u15 boys 1-8-2 (11th of 12)
u16 girls 0-4-7 (11th of 12)
u16 boys 6-1-2 (2nd of 10)
u17 girls 4-6-1 (8th of 12)
u17 boys 3-3-3 (6th of 10)
u18 girls 3-5-3 (10th of 12)
u18 boys 5-3-1 (5th of 10)
Has consolidation and pulling in non local players produced results in regional competition?
Yes, it has.
Russell's team is very good. The U17s and U18s had a coaching change right before the season which is never beneficial. The U17s lost their top two players either during or just before the season in Cole and Nacho. That would have an effect on anyone, especially when you can't score and those two players are both great goal scorers. If you took Nestor/Devin/Millard/etc off SC United, they would obviously not be as good as they were before either. The U18s have been a very strong team for years. Not 100% sure, but I think both the U18 and U17 teams went to the finals in Disney last year so they are having out of state success in tournaments as well.
Ideally, you'd like more competition. But it isn't like South Carolina is a hotbed for soccer talent. The only way you get more competition is if some of the CESA players who make the drive play at their local clubs. If that happens, then every team just gets worse, and is that a good thing? Especially since you already think they aren't getting regional results. Or moving to academy to compete with SC United and not worry about playing poor teams anymore, which is what they should do.
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Our team has two very strong in-state rivals and the games with them are very competitive. The other team in premiere league is usually one of them for all teams. They won't all be from the same club for all of the other CESA teams. since we are in premiere league, we don't really get the chance to play many of the other in state teams in our age group. I know many of the CESA teams have very strong rivalries with other premiere league teams as well that the casual observer wouldn't be aware of.
There is no lack of competition for the players.
Rivalries.....and competition.
on the boys end there tends to be some turnover in r3. And for the Academy clubs their boys/teams start dropping out of r3 at u15-u16. girls may be more consistent, I don't know.
My son played at CESA a few years ago on the 93 team. Very good team....but we had the very good Bridge 93 team to deal with. We played them twice in league play (splitting), once at a tournament (we got killled). Then in state cup final, losing in pk's. That was a rivalry and thats what i'm talking about.
Year after that....Columbia United's team caught fire and beat Bridge in state semi's, and CESA in state finals. Next year Bridge was gone to Academy.....and CESA beat CUFC in finals. Good 3 way rivalry and thats what i'm talking about. But that enviornment is gone.....and I think the CESA boys would be better if it were still there. I think there is something missing for them.....without a Giant to slay.
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BD... first you have to correctly state your case.
The question is NOT why CESA wins every STATE CUP, it should be why CESA wins every CHALLENGE cup.
CESA only won two of the classic state cups this fall.
The clear advantage that CESA has... is time (and to a certain extent population). They have been doing it correctly longer than others have been doing it. So the feeder system is deeper, as well as good recruiting skills.
For argument sake you could make a case that two age groups in the Boys challenge brackets are questionable due USSF academy. Not saying they would not have won it.
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The thread is now 7 takes long. Sorry we got off your track. You want competitive balance?
1) Club Directors should agree to work WITH, not AGAINST, each other with a goal of player development.
2) Clubs MUST stop recruiting each other's players (a scummy practice that smacks of commercial self-interest);
3) Parents must be constructively educated by a multi-club collective on the relative values of high-quality training (high) and winning (not wildly relevant); and
4) Clubs should mutually agree to a 90-mile-radius service area, or attendance zone, for their players, with kids OUTSIDE any zone limited to the closest club.
The sad truth is, we have DOZENS, maybe even HUNDREDS, of kids in this state who spend more time in cars traveling to and from training than actually training. That's an indictment of a system that is more concerned with profit and State Cups than the good of teenaged student-athletes.
Actually, a pretty good post. Thanks!!
Yes, I like competitive balance....but what I really want is 2 or 3 other clubs in this state to step up as CESA has and raise their game to match. That way the balance is achieved constructively and not restrictively.
I would think SCYS could play a part in facilitating some of that, but at the end of the day the responsibility lies with individual Boards and DOC's.
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hat-trick
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Quote:
BD... first you have to correctly state your case.
The question is NOT why CESA wins every STATE CUP, it should be why CESA wins every CHALLENGE cup.
CESA only won two of the classic state cups this fall.
The clear advantage that CESA has... is time (and to a certain extent population). They have been doing it correctly longer than others have been doing it. So the feeder system is deeper, as well as good recruiting skills.
For argument sake you could make a case that two age groups in the Boys challenge brackets are questionable due USSF academy. Not saying they would not have won it.
Yup, I stand corrected.
Agreed....if Academy never happened the boys scenario would probably look very different. But that doesn't explain CESA's domination on the girls side.
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Hat-Trick
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I will only comment this...
The word domination, to me means complete failure for the opponent to compete
Having said that the recently completed state cup had the folowing girl scores
U15 - 1-0 over sc united (Last year's champion)
U16 - 1-0 over SC united (last year's finalist by the same score)
U17 - 3- 0 ovet Mt. P (assumed last year finalist -was Coastal by 2-1)
U18 - 1-0 over Mt. P
In R3PL games this past season
U15 - Cesa lost 1-0 to Sc United
U16 - tie 1-1
U17 - 2-0 over Mt. P
U18 - Mt. P was not in premier league
I have to honestly say, (IMO) I do not see my definition of the word dominant
What I do see is a deeper pool of players. And again in my opinion slowly shifting below U17
Of course it does not take into account the actual game for all I know CESA hit the post 15 times and only got one goal. Of course the opposite can also be true
Last edited by futbol(soccer); 12/17/10 06:45 PM.
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Well the way it looks right now if there is going to be any rivalies it's going to be between the big three..
I had the pleasure of watching the 92 girls group the last seven years..Three good teams CESA,SCU and SCU MP...Any one of these teams could win on any given day..Mt P and CESA had matches for the ages..We really enjoyed the rivalry and that team is second to none..
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