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Cadie Naquin (Notre Dame Prep, Arizona) wrote a fantastic article about giving up club time to play with your high school team and vice versa. Are organizations out to get the elite soccer players off the high school teams to even the playing field? http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-socc...ther_for_Never=
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I read that article and I thought her main point was that the HS association would not allow players to play club soccer while participating in HS soccer. Her gripe was that she was never given a satisfactory reason why she couldn't go to important college showcases in Raleigh and Florida during the Arizona winter HS season.
I believe she stated that if she played soccer for her HS and wanted to play club basketball or volleyball at the same time, that was allowed. However, playing soccer in Florida during the two week period when there are no HS practices or games was stictly forbidden.
She asks the question at some point, "isn't it supposed to be all about the player"? If a player wants to do both, why not let them? She states that even though the competition and the level of player in HS varies, that she sees value in it. She also states that she is being punished and forced to miss valuable opportunities by not being allowed to go with her club team.
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Harry, how many high school boys and girls basketball, baseball, softball, and football players miss their high school athletics to participate in showcases, combines, etc. The answer is none. Yet the kids that succeed in these other high school sports seem to have a better opportunities to play at the next level because of more scholarship availability. I heard on ESPN the other day that there are 68 men football scholarships available at D1 colleges and 9 men soccer scholarships available at D1 colleges. It sounds like the girl went with her heart and was loyal to her high school team. Kudos to her and her parents. The year round travel for youth soccer is a bunch of BS to line the soccer directors pockets. The top sports in the USA don't see a need to do all of the wasteful spending and travel.
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GBDawgs. Different sports. Different models. D1 colleges don't look for soccer players at high schools. They do for other sports like baseball, football and basketball.
Comparing the different sports isn't comparing apples and apples. The point is irrelevant given the reality of the different sports.
I don't see the value of HS soccer to college recruiting changing, but unless/until it magically does, the showcases are the place to find college coaches looking for recruits. That's simply the reality for soccer.
Last edited by JAK; 01/05/11 03:51 AM.
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JAK, the reason the college coaches don't look for soccer players at the high schools is because NOW, there are the showcase events. This has really only to begin to occur with great regularity the past few years. I agree with GB, it is a "money thing" with the Clubs. They want to control and get paid from the players and families year round. Thus (and they are smart to do this) they have created year round showcases and events to keep the players involved resulting in some conflicts during the high school season. Before the showcase events became as numerous as they are now, the college soccer coaches DID come to the high schools. At one time (and only a few years ago) most State High School Leagues forbid a student playing Club during the High School season. It was not a rule to penalize the Clubs, but a rule to assure these players got some rest and actually had some time to do schoolwork and study.
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Who's to say that the soccer model isn't a better one? From a purely developmental perspective there is no question that the club system is superior to high school. If football and basketball players (baseball does a lot of it already), played with and against only players of their approximate ability, they would all improve. That's what club soccer does. With only a tiny number of exceptions, a high school soccer team is, to put it charitably, not good. Forcing good soccer players to only play high school (as gbdawgs seems to want), would set back soccer development in this country decades. In fact, we'd never recover.
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Quote:
JAK, the reason the college coaches don't look for soccer players at the high schools is because NOW, there are the showcase events. This has really only to begin to occur with great regularity the past few years. I agree with GB, it is a "money thing" with the Clubs. They want to control and get paid from the players and families year round. Thus (and they are smart to do this) they have created year round showcases and events to keep the players involved resulting in some conflicts during the high school season. Before the showcase events became as numerous as they are now, the college soccer coaches DID come to the high schools. At one time (and only a few years ago) most State High School Leagues forbid a student playing Club during the High School season. It was not a rule to penalize the Clubs, but a rule to assure these players got some rest and actually had some time to do schoolwork and study.
Can you provide a link with the proof that this is the case? Thanks
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Baseball..summer leagues..American legion ball and travel teams
Basketball..has additional leagues as well
Football is only off during winter and summer months..
Spring games and weight training pretty much year round..
Last edited by coldhardtruth; 01/05/11 03:41 PM.
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Quote:
JAK, the reason the college coaches don't look for soccer players at the high schools is because NOW, there are the showcase events. This has really only to begin to occur with great regularity the past few years. I agree with GB, it is a "money thing" with the Clubs. They want to control and get paid from the players and families year round. Thus (and they are smart to do this) they have created year round showcases and events to keep the players involved resulting in some conflicts during the high school season. Before the showcase events became as numerous as they are now, the college soccer coaches DID come to the high schools. At one time (and only a few years ago) most State High School Leagues forbid a student playing Club during the High School season. It was not a rule to penalize the Clubs, but a rule to assure these players got some rest and actually had some time to do schoolwork and study.
I guess I'm missing something. I played club and HS 20+ years ago. I went to showcase tournaments. I even went to Florida (Tampa at that time) after Christmas. I was recruited and had offers to play. I couldn't get the schools that were in my town to come to see a high school game. I don't think this is a recent invention by club directors.
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Speaking only from my experience the past 8 years with my kids, here in Greenville. As recent as 2008 (and the years before) College Soccer Coaches would scout at their High School games. After 2008, I have seen none. Not to say that there could have been some. These teams of 09 and 10 did have players to go on and play college soccer. The combines make is easy for the College Coaches to view many players. No doubt a good thing. It should not have to be either, or.
Club or High School. There should be adequate time for both.
Many of the bigger Clubs (in my opinion) are not favorable
to high school play.
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I agree that it shouldn't be either or. I think the girl in AZ who wrote the article agrees it shouldn't be either or. I also think that it is not just bigger clubs who don't favor HS play. I know several parents who support their son or daughter in HS ventures but candidly wish that their child didn't play. There have even been a brave few who have not played HS because they felt it wasn't worth it.
I feel that most people at the bigger clubs are not in favor of completely doing away with HS soccer. But rather, they wish that serious players would look at HS soccer for what it usually is: a way to play some games in front of their friends along side of some friends who may not be good enough to play on their club team, and not something that should make them forego opportunities like the girl in AZ has to do.
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A smart college coach, wanting to see and know prospects in a variety of environments and facing different stressors, will scout BOTH club and high school activities, as well as camps and other venues.
It's called due diligence.
As to the relative benefits of club and high school soccer, playing for a school, in front of friends and families, shouldn't be viewed as an ALTERNATIVE to competitive club soccer, but rather as a supplement.
One other thing: High school isn't pay-to-play. Coaches, not parents, call the shots.
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Bomber-good post. To me, here are several differences from the soccer high school and club seasons.
High School- games mostly during the week. Very little travel. No long trips across the country, or to Florida, Virginia, DC, Raleigh etc... Huge cost differential.
Plus the high school players truly love playing for the school.
Club- for the most part (say we are looking at an entire state) better training, coaches and competition. All that said, if you are talking about Premier players.
Compared to other sports, yes they have Club type teams and events, but they typically occur out of their high school season. Soccer is doing more and more during the high school season. You begin to think, what is really the Club's motive. It is obvious, they make their schedules without regard to high school play. Thus putting players and parents left with tough decisions to make.
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Daughter made a mistake of trying to play basketball and club soccer one year. Neither coach would bend. Games were never at the same time; only the practices here and there. But each coach wanted undivided attention.We told them there was only a 3 week overlap but had to ride bench in several games as punishment. I guess if you want to pursue sports in college you have to pick one and thats it. But club and high school will always butt heads.
I do see high school soccer getting more competitive because of all the club players now but that could change if ECNL takes over and limits the students free time.
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Agreed.
When a kid has to choose between a major high school tournament and a showcase event ...
"Stinks" doesn't do it justice.
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Of course, part of the problem is that some state H.S. associations sponsor Fall seasons; others, Spring.
Heck, if memory serves, there was a time when SCHSL played Fall and SCISAA played Spring.
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Neither club nor high school soccer holds a monopoly on dimwit coaches/trainers.
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Quote:
Of course, part of the problem is that some state H.S. associations sponsor Fall seasons; others, Spring.
Heck, if memory serves, there was a time when SCHSL played Fall and SCISAA played Spring.
SCHSL has played soccer in Winter (Nov-Feb) and Spring (Jan-May) only.
Victory Starts Here!
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Quote:
Neither club nor high school soccer holds a monopoly on dimwit coaches/trainers.
AMEN! As a parent who has had very positive high school sports experiences thanks to coaches on both ends who were willing to work out conflicts in a common sense fashion, I know it can work. And it should work. Both club and high school sports offer complimentary experiences.
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202: Exactly my point. SCHSL has done both "winter" and "spring." As I said, I think there were seasons when publics played at one time and private the other IN THE SAME ACADEMIC YEAR.
The issue for national club and showcase events is held between September and early June is that there will always be some state high school association "in season" ... and therefore conflict.
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it used to be that HS was where you went to recruit, times have changed. Maybe soccer is AHEAD of the game by doing combines. Someone figured out, hey, i can go 50 places to see players, or one place to see all 50.
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Only if he grows to 6'3" or so.
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Both can be done. My daughter hooked up with a showcase team and they practiced on weekends and did the showcases. You just have to watch and make sure that you do not push it to hard. The child will always say more, more, if they think that is what will please the parent.
As far as recruiting goes, I do not think the showcases or the clubs have a corner on this market. I think clubs have done better because they have been better organized in their recruiting efforts, where in HS it is left up to the individual HS coach to do the work. It has been my experience that a few HS coaches have done well but most have not done anything to help recruit their players. My daughter was lucky she had several other HS coaches that helped her out, but not her HS coach. Market economics is the main reason for this discrepancy. Clubs need to get players recruited in order to compete with other clubs and to help draw players. The HS league has a monopoly on the players in it's district so has no need to help the player. Football is different because it is a revenue sport and therefore is a market driven sport for all the booster money.
Here I go again!
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Those players are a dime-a-dozens. Tricks don't win games. OR neither does doing moves on girls that aren't looking.
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Quote:
Those players are a dime-a-dozens. Tricks don't win games. OR neither does doing moves on girls that aren't looking.
OR DOING MMA MOVES IN YOUR TIM'S AND WHITE SOCKS ON A NAWG OR 2!!!!
Stuff White People Like: #589 - Guy Fieri
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