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Based on results, rankings and the tournament brackets, it appears the following schools will be prohibitive favorites to win their first two state playoff matches and advance to the Upperstate semi-finals:
Eastside
Greenville
Fort Mill
Nation Ford
Anybody from "down under" want to take a shot at predicting who will be left standing in the Lowerstate Final Four?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Post deleted by Soccer_Troll
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I believe that Hurst was referring to the girls side of soccer since this wasn't posted on the boys forum as well...
Romans 1:16 -- For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ...
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Jane,
What does B-C and Airport's path look like?
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I guess we will find out on Monday.
Romans 1:16 -- For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ...
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Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Why isn't St. James listed? Is there a mistake? Is Socastee listed twice? 
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I think the confusion is that MB is playing St. James tonight at Socastee to determine #1 seed. It's going to be a wet one...
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Looking at the 3A brackets, I'm struck by how wide open the championship looks without Riverside, JL Mann, and South Aiken there anymore.
The Lower State especially looks up for grabs for a Region V team or Hilton Head. My question marks are 1)What can Camden do against stiffer competition with India Robinson playing (or will she be playing)? Does she have a strong enough supporting cast? And 2)How good are St. James and Myrtle Beach? I know they are ranked in the top 10 but don't really know anything about them or the teams they have played. Doesn't look like they've had too much competition. I guess we'll know more after Monday night.
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It looks like St. James and Myrtle Beach answered Question #2 pretty emphatically with 3-0 wins over Region V Dreher and AC Flora tonight. They must be for real and it looks like they will be contending for the Lower State every bit as much as BC, Airport, and Hilton Head. Makes it fun to have some unknowns in the mix!
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In addition to MB and St. James..what about Camden live and learn? They beat up Cane Bay 9-0 with India Robinson scoring 5 of the 9 goals...she has the supporting cast as well and could be a big surprise this year! Airport is up next and a big challenge..Camden has played tough though with BC and Dreher losing by 2 goals without India Robinson. I guess all will be told on Wednesday.
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Camden certainly has shown better in the playoffs than ac flora, dreher and chapin. India not playing against dreher and bc will add an interesting element to the airport match.
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Camden has improved a good deal from last season. The first half was very competitive with a 0-0 score until a free kick was scored by Airport with less than a minute remaining in the half. They seemed to wear down in the second half and Airport kept the pressure on until the final minutes of the game. Airport's defense did a good job of staying in front of India and causing her to shoot from outside the 18 for most of the night. She connected on 1 and probably took about 10-15 shots. She was seldom able to penetrate the defense and get any good looks from inside the 18. She is very talented and has a very strong leg.
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Lower State
Airport vs Hilton Head
BC vs St James
What are your thoughts?
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Quote:
Camden certainly has shown better in the playoffs than ac flora, dreher and chapin. India not playing against dreher and bc will add an interesting element to the airport match.
Huh? Why didn't she play against the two best teams that Camden would've faced in the regular season?
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Quote:
Camden certainly has shown better in the playoffs than ac flora, dreher and chapin. India not playing against dreher and bc will add an interesting element to the airport match.
I dont believe you can say beating a 4 seed Cane Bay is a much better showing than what Chapin ,AC Flora and Dreher did in the playoffs. Chapin playing 1 seed Wallhalla to the last seconds of OT, AC Flora lost to a very good Myrtle Beach team, and Dreher losing to 1 seed St James is not necessarily a poor showing. All 3 would have beat Cane Bay handily as well.
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Can a club coach be a trainer for a HS team and have more than 8 girls on that team? If not, how is SJ getting away with this? I'm pretty sure that their actual coach is the club coach and is just not listed as the school coach. Can someone verify?
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Quote:
Can a club coach be a trainer for a HS team and have more than 8 girls on that team? If not, how is SJ getting away with this? I'm pretty sure that their actual coach is the club coach and is just not listed as the school coach. Can someone verify?
1. Freeman only trains the girls for club and takes them tournaments. He is not a "club" coach for any those girls, he just trains them. A bunch of those St. James girls trained indoors with him over the winter as well as on weekends. But he coaches younger girls, he only trains the older groups.
2. He is shown on their website as a Tactical Consultant, not a coach.
3. I don't think the school pays him, just some of the parents paying him on the side. I think if the school does not pay him, he can do whatever he wants with the team.
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FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY...there seem to be misconceptions...
Out of Season
During the out of season period, no school shall allow practice(s) that involve(s) the coach(es)
and/or players except:
1. If a coach from a school (including volunteer coaches) is associated with an outside team, no
more than 75% of the allowable starters for that sport may be on the roster of the outside
team. Examples of squad limits are: Swimming (3), Football (8), Volleyball (4), Tennis (2),
Competitive Cheer (15), Golf (3), Basketball (3), Wrestling (11), Soccer (8), Baseball (7),
Softball (7), Track (3), Boys’ Lacrosse (7) and Girls’ Lacrosse (9). This restriction applies to
all students who were included on the school's certificate of eligibility and dressed for a
varsity game during the previous season. Students with no remaining eligibility will not
count. There is no limit on the number of students from the same school if there is no coach
involved from that school. Also, there is no restriction on baseball or softball during the
months of May, June, and July as it pertains to the 75% rule.
2. Member schools will be permitted 10 days of competition in summer leagues, team camps,
or other outside organizations during the time period of June 1 through July 23, 2011. They
may use school facilities and equipment for these 10 days. The exact 10 days must be
documented by date and records of these days supplied to the League Office if requested.
NOTE: Any school violating either of the above may be fined up to $500.00 and placed
on probation in the sport involved.
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Okay, I'm not a very smart man so can someone please tell me the difference between "training" and "coaching?" Seems to me like the flip side of the same coin. I do like the title "Tactical Consutltant."
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Quote:
I believe Coach Cannon has been the girls coach since the school opened. Page 24 of this link:
http://www.schsl.org/2010/10-11directory.pdf
Cannon is the coach "on paper." Freeman is a volunteer coach who is really doing the coaching. Freeman was with SCUMP but left in November. He does tournament teams with 93's, 94's and 95's. He trains a bunch of the Saint James girls for their clubs but he is not their club coach, just their trainer. I think some of them did some indoor training with him this winter. I don't know if the school pays him. I didn't think they did, but maybe he is paid. The school website calls him a Tactical Consultant, not a coach.
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How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's still a tail. --Abraham Lincoln
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What is the difference between the said "coaching" and "training?" Serious question...
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Quote:
What is the difference between the said "coaching" and "training?" Serious question...
Well, according to the HS rules that a coach posted here, it is okay as long as the girls are not all on the same team for a club. He is training girls of different ages from different club teams that all just happen to play for the same HS team. Some of the girls he trained I don't think even went to any of the tournaments with him, they just trained with him some over the winter I think. I don't think it matters if they are on different club teams. It is a HS team so the girls are all different ages for club teams.
I thought the rule was for 8 players from one team that can't be coached by the same club coach as high school coach.
If he doesn't reach 8 players form one team and he takes them to a tournament, doesn't that keep it from being a HS team practice.
I don't know that St. James had the money to pay three coaches, and like it shows on their website, he is not shown as a coach, he is shown as consultant.
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It shouldn't take 5 or 6 paragraphs to explain what's going on in St James. It doesn't smell very good from here.
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According to Dictionary.com...
Consultant: n. 1. a person who gives professional or expert advice. Syn: advisor, authority, counsel, expert, freelancer, guide, master, maven, mentor.
Coach: n. 5. a person who trains an athlete or a team of athletes 12. to give instruction or advice to in the capacity of a coach; instruct. Syn: drill instructor, educator, mentor, physical education instructor, skipper, teacher, trainer, tutor.
For some reason, I find only a few vague differences in these definitions. The distinctions between a consultant and coach seem a little too general, especially in a case such as this. Technically, because of shared synonyms (i.e. "mentor") and job descriptions (i.e. to advise...), a coach might act as a consultant and vice-versa. It seems to me that the only difference in these two positions would be their given titles. Hmmm...
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If I am not mistaken, as long as he stays under the 8 player limit he is fine. Someone please correct me if this is not accurate. Will?
What he was doing tonight was certainly coaching.
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Quote:
He trains a bunch of the Saint James girls for their clubs but he is not their club coach, just their trainer...
Well then, we may just need to define "a bunch" here. Might "a bunch" be a number inclusive of more than 8?
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Quote:
If I am not mistaken, as long as he stays under the 8 player limit he is fine. Someone please correct me if this is not accurate. Will?
What he was doing tonight was certainly coaching.
I'd rather speak in terms of "what" is permissible under SCHSL rules rather than in terms of what any individual is doing...
According to the SCHSL, "Coaching outside teams during a closed season is permissible provided the 75%
rule is not violated." (For soccer, the 75% rule means no more than 8 members of the HS team, to include any who were rostered and dressed out for a game the previous HS season, can participate on a team coached by any coach involved with the HS team.) The League rules also use the language "on an outside team clearly sponsored by an outside agency."
The section I quoted earlier also clearly states "including volunteer coaches," so the question of whether someone is paid by the school or not is irrelevant...if the individual coaches the high school team in any capacity it is all the same.
Now, if the coach involved with the high school team is NOT associated with an outside team sponsored by an outside agency on which the players are rostered, but rather is simply conducting training sessions with members of the high school team during closed season, that is another matter...
"OUT-OF-SEASON
Strength and conditioning programs will not be affected by the limitation on practice seasons.
Conditioning programs are not to include agility drills that enhance specific skills for a given sport, nor
may equipment for any sport be used. Agility drills appropriate for all sports will be acceptable.
Practice and weight training must be open to all students. These sessions cannot be mandatory for any
student.
Any student participating in an illegal practice will be declared ineligible for that sport season. Any
school allowing an illegal practice will be subject to League discipline, which may include the placing of
the sport on probation...
Organized practice is defined as the gathering of a coach(es) and more than two studentathletes (per sport program) for the purpose of teaching sport specific skills (including video,
chalk-talk sessions, etc). It also includes the use of school facilities by more than two
student-athletes (per sport program).
Violation(s) of the practice rules orchestrated/initiated by school personnel will subject the
school to sanction(s) by the League. Violation(s) of the practice rules orchestrated/initiated by
the student athletes will subject the school to a “warning” for first offense and more severe
sanctions for repeated offense(s) within one calendar year."
So, to sum up:
IF any coach (including volunteer coaches) is involved with an outside TEAM clearly sponsored by an outside agency, and
IF that outside team involves 8 or fewer players from the high school team the coach is associated with, OR,
IF a coach representing an outside agency trains an unlimited number of members of a HS team but is NOT involved in coaching that HS team in any capacity during the HS season,
THEN it is legal according to the SCHSL stated rules.
On the other hand,
IF a coach is conducting soccer training sessions using soccer equipment during closed season with a group of players (not as members of an outside team sponsored by an outside agency), OR,
IF a coach is coaching an outside team clearly sponsored by an outside agency and that team includes more than 8 of a high school team's players, AND,
IF that same coach is actively involved in coaching those players during the high school season, through employment or volunteer action,
THEN it would be considered illegal practice according to SCHSL rules, which, if I understand the spirit of the rules correctly, were created to prevent any unfair advantage created by allowing the same coach to work with and train an unregulated number of team members during both closed and open seasons.
Clear as mud?
That's about the limit of my expertise on the letter of the law...any further clarification on its language, intent, or spirit would have to come from the League.
Last edited by Coach Chass; 05/17/11 05:07 AM.
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"THEN it would be considered illegal practice according to SCHSL rules, which, if I understand the spirit of the rules correctly, were created to prevent any unfair advantage created by allowing the same coach to work with and train an unregulated number of team members during both closed and open seasons."
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, I guess it's "just a trainer?"
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Are any of these players on his High School Team?
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There are three on this roster also listed on the high school roster...well within the legal limit of the 75% rule for outside teams.
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Recognized name as I perused the tournament. If any of his previous teams have 5 different additional players on them would that put him in violation?
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The rule is that a coach of a high school team (including volunteer coaches) may coach an outside team sponsored by an outside agency (club, rec,etc.) as long as he/she does not have more than 8 of the current high school players on that team during the same season. The 8-player limit does not include players who did not dress out for any varsity games during the previous high school season...for example, someone on last year's JV squad, IF she did not dress out for ANY varsity games, would not count as one of the allowed 8.
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Hey! How 'bout those Lady Seahawks and Lady Jackets! 
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I thought this was about 3A state playoffs. I want to hear about Hilton Head and Fort Mill!!!!!
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Hurst you want to go to the Gig after your State Championship game?
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We gonna do the Douggie? 
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RIP M-Bone. 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Quote:
I thought this was about 3A state playoffs. I want to hear about Hilton Head and Fort Mill!!!!!
Well last time they played (2010 BB&T at Fort Mill) FM won 3-1 but those were different teams so... it means very little
Let's see.. they had no common opponents this year, and from the chatter on this board they both come from what many have called the weaker regions. Each team seems to have played several out of state teams to get prepped for this part of the season.
Lastly they are still closer to each other than if we had North Myrtle Beach High School play Walhalla High School who are about 75 miles farther apart!
Hilton Head has some great beaches! While Fort Mill has the Panthers! (well 10 min away)  , never mind on that one, did I mention we have a lake??
Last edited by The Chief; 05/19/11 08:05 AM.
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 Since you probably got your lesson from the two above, to answer your question no!! Now there will be some Cookin going on!!! 
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Quote:
There are three on this roster also listed on the high school roster...well within the legal limit of the 75% rule for outside teams.
Coach Chass, what about these two rosters (maybe as posted they are not accurate)...
http://scysa.demosphere.com/teams/28000866/29215248-28000966/TEAM.html
http://fortmillsoccer.com/gteam.html
is this what applies... "for example, someone on last year's JV squad, IF she did not dress out for ANY varsity games, would not count as one of the allowed 8."
Last edited by DeltaDog; 05/20/11 06:10 PM.
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I count 9 matching names, but there are 4 juniors and a sophomore among them who would have been 4 sophomores and a freshman during last year's high school season...if one or more of the nine played JV last year (or wasn't on the squad at all) and never dressed out for a varsity game, there is no violation according to the rules.
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got it, thx. (there were no freshmen on last year's varsity roster.)
Last edited by DeltaDog; 05/20/11 06:39 PM.
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