SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP ecnl vs. odp vs. odp vs. ecnl

Do you have any idea on the CESA costs and how they are going to juggle the who gets to play in which game thing? If the ECNL games are drawing more college coaches (thats how it is being sold ,right?) then who will be happy to pay the same amount to get fewer "good" games. Also what about the ECNL sub rule, really going to limit playing time players do get if you have a large roster and have to get everyone in?

More venues? More games? What happened to developement. Here's a good article from a pretty well respected coach in US Soccer that was put out just a few months ago. From reading this article is your club developing your child into a good soccer player, or are they just looking at dollar signs. Read this and determine if this sounds like your club.

Originally Posted by Unregistered
World Cup Champion coach Tony DiCicco rips U.S. soccer development
October 21st, 2010 6:25 pm ET
By L.E. Eisenmenger, U.S. Soccer Examiner


In part..............

LE: So, what's holding back soccer development in the United States?

DiCicco: Youth soccer is big business. For them it’s about winning the next match and if you win, more of the better players come to my club and I make more money. The coaches should be mandating, absolutely mandating, that their players come and watch the professional game. Not just because it’s supporting professional soccer, but because their players will learn from watching this level. They will learn more from doing an hour and a half training session if they come and watch a game.

I coached the U-20 men back in 93, I was the assistant coach and we were preparing for a World Championship in Australia. We were in England. We were a good team, the U-20 Men’s National team, all the best 18, 19, and 20 year-olds in America. We went to see Manchester United play Queens Park Rangers in London and it was a great game. Tremendous intensity, speed of play, tackling, runs off the ball. The next day in training, the players were better players just from watching that game. That’s what we’re missing in this country.

On the girls’ side our players are not smart players, they lack sophistication, they’re not technical enough. If I get a stud athlete and I get her to out-run everybody and I put the ball over the top 15 times, she might score two or three goals and we win the game. But eventually that stud athlete comes up against a stud defender and it doesn’t work anymore and she doesn’t know how else to play because she’s never been coached properly. We have a lot of that. I don’t blame the players, I don’t blame the parents, I blame programs and I blame the coaches.

I know the U.S. game, I coached the U-20s in 2008. There’s no other player in America who can hold the ball like Kelly Smith. How can this be? But if you don’t come and see how Marta or Kelly Smith or Bompastor or Abby Wambach plays, how are you going to get better? Is our average player getting better? Yes, our average player is getting better, but where’s the next Mia Hamm? Where’s the next Kristine Lilly, the next Michelle Akers? They’re not there.

The reason they’re not there is because our system is not developing players. In the women’s game, we have the most players playing in the world at youth levels, but last year nine of the top ten strikers in WPS were international players. This year it’s better, Wambach and Arod are up there, but everyone else at the top are international players. Why is that?

LE : How do you turn the pyramid around?

DiCicco: Our players are not getting the foundations of the game. Our players are not technical. Right now in the U-17 World Cup, the semifinalists are South Korea, North Korea, Japan, and Spain. Three Indonesian teams - they’re all about technique. Their coaches emphasize it. Our coaches at U-10 emphasize winning. You can win games and sacrifice player development and that’s what’s happening in our system. Why is that happening? Like I said, youth soccer is big business. If I don’t win, it doesn’t matter if I’m developing players, my business is going to hell. If I win, I attract other good players and by doing that I win more games.There are some very good programs out there, some coaches that are doing a really good job. But for the most part we have almost a generation of young kids that have not been developed properly.

My U-20 team, I had to cut Casey Nogueira. Casey is so talented, but she had never been cut from anything. She had a free pass from one age group National Team to the next age group National Team to the next. When I cut her, it was the best thing that ever happened to her. That year she played lights out, led the team, scored around 24 goals because she was finally told it wasn’t good enough.

Our players are not coached enough. What scares me is our U-20s this past July at the U-20 World Cup. They lost in the quarterfinals and came in somewhere between 5th-8th. That’s the lowest finish of any U.S. team ever in a World Cup. Our U-17s didn’t get out of CONCACAF. We’re losing ground now and it’s really serious.

I don’t know of any federation that’s spending more money on their women’s program than the United States. Maybe Germany, maybe a couple others, but the U.S. is certainly in the top three as far as funding for their youth-and-full Women's National Team programs.

Overseas, kids grow up in a soccer culture. The German player sees the game eons above the American player the same age. When I was coaching U-20 women, I turned to my assistant coach and said, “Why is it that we’re playing the same age group, but we’re like, playing up? Because these players see the game so much better than we do. The U.S. has won because they’ve had adequate technique, had some pretty sophisticated players, but we’ve been dominant athletically and with mentality. And now I hear that mentality is not so good. If we lose mentality, we will not be winning too many World Cups in the future. We’ve got to work to get our game back. Pia Sundhage has an excellent team and she’s going to make a run at the World Cup Championship, but our U-17s didn’t even get into a World Cup, our U-20’s were locked out of the quarterfinals.

The 1970 Brazilian National Team won the World Cup in Mexico, but the next time Brazil won a World Cup was 1994 – 24 years later. It happens in our League. The last time we won a World Cup was my team in 1999. It’s going to be 11-12 years from now before we have a chance to win another one. We won some Olympics and that’s really important to American teams, but to the rest of the world the World Cup is the World Cup. That’s the real test, that’s where you have 16-24 teams competing. In the Olympics you’ve got 10-12 teams now.

A lot of this has to do with goals -- and not the ones you score. Clubs are businesses. Club coaches/trainers are in it for the money. Parents pay the money NOT to develop great players, but in the ridiculous long-shot hope of having their kids' educations paid for.
What bothers me is, many of the very people who COMPLAIN about our "system" are the very ones who support and propogate it.

Whatever happened to the ECNL rule (?) that you could not play
for ODP, state cup , etc... ala USSF academy?

And there is also the rule that an R3PL team must consist of 50% plus 1 of the previous year players?

It is my understanding that CSA and CASL are both giving up their R3PL spots, because they are unable to comply with the 51% rule for R3PL and field an ECNL team.

gbdawgs

The article you've copied doesn't sound at all like the club I belong to. The two statements in bold don't resemble it at all. This past year, our team played in Region III premier league and ECNL. It was more games. More importantly, it was more quality games. Yet, the money that I payed to the club did not increase. Yes, I did spend more money traveling but the club did not get rich off of me.

I also know that at U-10 winning is absolutely NOT emphasized and is barely even mentioned at the club I'm in. I have seen other clubs where younger players win games 10-0 or even more. I have experienced life at our club at the younger ages and there are great efforts to make sure that games are evenly matched and that when there is a mismatch coaches are educated enough to find something technical to focus on instead of simply scoring more goals etc.

I am sure that there are clubs out there that fit what Tony is describing. But I don't see it in the club I'm involved with. I would certainly never argue with someone like Tony DiCicco with regards to U.S. soccer. But I'm always a little amused when I hear someone like him say "I know the U.S. game, I coached the U-20s in 2008". Really? Is the U-20 full national team a microcosm of the club soccer in the U.S. from pre U-10 through U-18? Can you judge every soccer club in America and make such generalizations like "For them it's about winning the next match" simply because you haven't seen the next Mia Hamm or Michelle Akers? Is going to watch the WPS really that big of a difference maker? Should every girl in SC make trips to Atlanta to watch games? I wonder if there would be any financial ramifications for Tony and others on the U.S. staff if there were more teams in the WPS and higher attendance. Should girls who are Chelsea and Arsenal and Manchester United fans that watch games on TV regularly benifit more by watching the Beat?

Anyway, getting off topic a little maybe. I guess I'm just not drinking Tony's Kool Aid. Wow, did I just say Kool Aid?

For my money, if the club's teams are sweeping state championships earning their way on their own merits to the same tournament events as ECNL, I'd stay with USYSA and ODP. If one or more of my club's teams couldn't get into CASL, Disney, PDA, etc. on their own merits then I might consider ECNL.

Funny how everyone says call and find out. Is it so bad that no one will put out a number? I was only wondering what the cost was, I guess you do not know and that's ok I was hoping someone would share the info.

As for the being sold, notice the ( ... ?) it is a question of weather that is what is happening or not. You can say the club is not pushing the college coach angle but ECNL is, like others R3 and premier event who list college coaches in attendance to be fair.

I have a hard time thinking that these parents are shelling out an extra (lets say 2000) a year just so Suzy gets to play in better games, maybe some are. I think most see it as a better chance for Suzy to be "seen", and yes develop skills becasue they want Suzy to play (/get money) in college.

Just a side thought but funny how the money is so high the last 3-4 years when they are learning precentage wise the least but has biggest impact on the college outlook, but the early years where they learn most (percentage wise) and develop the skill that determine how far they will eventually go cost so much less. Right????


Oh and lastly what about the playing time thing???

The amount of money I paid to CESA was $675 last year. They may raise the price this year because they haven't the past few years but I believe it is the same this year. But if I were you, I wouldn't take it from me. You don't even know who I am. I could be on the payroll or I could be a disgruntled parent whose kid quit. I would call the office if I were you. I feel like we've been over this before, but the hotels and the gas station will get more of my money than CESA will.

Better games, being seen and developing all go hand in hand at this level. So you're really paying for all 3. It's almost a cause/effect relationship. Playing better games helps you develop as a player. Put 22 high caliber players on each of 10-12 fields at the same time and coaches will come watch. It's all very simple.

What about the playing time? I never saw an issue with playing time last year. I don't anticipate an issue this year. We had 20+ players available on the roster last year. We always took 14-16 players to a game and everyone played. This year, I don't believe we'll have 22 on the roster but I can't be sure. I don't get to make those decisions.