SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Boiling Springs Title IX Lawsuit

Interesting development in Boiling Spprings with the Title IX lawsuit. I agree with some points in the lawsuit. Shin guards should be provided by the school. As a former coach at Boiling Springs I remember not getting equal access to facilities or equal amount of equipment. In my short coaching career at Boiling SPrings a 'acting' Athletic Director at Boiling Springs bought us some adidas swim shorts one year to play in. He told me we should show appreciation to him for getting us a good deal on shorts. Of course his team (another sport) got brand new uniforms (home and away) and new warm ups. Parents at Boiling Springs were very committed, very supportive and loyal. This lawsuit may improve equality in other programs in the state as well.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/2011052...female-athletes

Sounds like it is time for a new AD. If the school is found in violation, the will be looking for a new AD.

There are schools that provide shin guards for soccer players? Wow...can we make this a class action suit?

I applaud whomever has initiated this action at BS. Long overdue IMO.

As for shinguards being provided ... Does baseball provide bat and glove? Does football provide helmet and pads? Does basketball provide shoes? Does golf provide clubs/balls? Just wondering.

It seems to me things like this lead to the AD. Some AD's care more about other sports over others, I dont think anyone can argue with that. If you have an AD that cares about all sports and trusts his coaches then you can have just as much as others. I have coached at a public school and the AD bascially allowed me to run the soccer program. He told me exactly how much $$ was in our budget and I could spend it however i saw fit. So if that meant buy cheap uniforms and save the rest for equipment or travel then ok or I could use it all and buy expensive Nike or Adidas uniforms. All I had to do was ask if we could use this or that and he would give me an answer. I wonder if some coaches are afraid to ask to use facilites because they assume "its for football"

Gee, maybe those 200 girls don't want to participate. Comparing non-revenue sports to football is ridiculous. Without football's revenue, how many of these programs would exist?

Oh boy, here we go with the whole revenue/non-revenue crap. I would love to see how much money (on an excel sheet) football makes. Let's look at it. if the head coach makes 90K and the assistants are paid well too, let's assume 200K. Now add in travel (all three levels, so 5 busses a week), plus equipment cost (to have helmet referb, which is require every third year costs several thousand). Add it all together and you get around 350K. At $5 per ticket and 5 home games that would be 70K per game. So which school exactly have between 8 and 10 thousand fans per game??? Revenue, yeh, right!!!!

The soccer program at my school loses money period. Without money generated by football and boys basketball the program would not exist.

Very few high school football coaches make 90K. The numbers you cite are not the norm.

In 2009, 132 of the 191 head football coaches made 60+K per year. Again, show me all the money being made?? To just cover the head coaches salary (which is what is listed) you would have to AVERAGE 2500 fans at every home game. That is just to pay for the head coach. No assistants, no gear, no travel, no refs, etc... Here is the link and I have to believe that the salaries have gone up not down.
http://www.thestate.com/2009/01/11/64687...amp;CPIorderBy=
Now do most schools make money on soccer, no. But it is also much less expensive to run. All the program coaches coaches make maybe, MAYBE 10K (and I doubt it is that high)and between refs, gear and travel a schoool may spend another 5K. So thats 15K for a minimum of 7 home games. Yep, may not make that back, BUT I'd guess that soccer loses less money!!!

Again show me a excel that includes salaries + all other costs, and show me the profit. This is not an SEC football program.

do those salaries include teaching duties or is fball coach teachers kind of a wink & a nod joke?

are head coaches required to be teachers?

i know assts are not.

"facilities for practices and games; medical and training facilities and services; accommodation of interests and abilities; and scheduling of games and practice times."

If this is the standard required by the law, not sure what it is this is quote from story saying what the short fall is, then most schools could have a beef with how soccer teams are treated.

Waiting for someone to make an issue that sports that involve female athletes are not given the same practice windows (amount of time per year) that male only sports (football) get because the SCHSL treats sports with females "unfairly".

I think it is a brilliant lawsuit and applaud the parent for bringing the issue to light.

As for head football coaches and athletic directors, most do not "teach" these days. IMO, after 35+ years in education, I think it is that personnel and the administrators (all the highly paid folks) who have lost touch with the real reason we do this for a living.

I could see Lewis Lineberger "teaching" a class! LOL!

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the status of this legal action?

OCR complaint reviews are extemely slow. Lawyers, reviewing data, writing letters, having letters reviewed by other lawyres etc.

A teacher friend of mine sent me a note that the AD sent to all of the BSHS high school teachers. It was sent out on Sept 8th. Coach Clark (the AD/football coach) was asking the teachers and their families to tell him when all the sports at the school were started, because he had no idea, or info. Evidently the government is still dragging info out of the school, at this point.

The biggest issue is there are 515 male athletes at the school and only 219 female athletes. On top of this the school refuses to add C teams, and other sanctioned sports for the girls. To get propotionate, they will have to add 226 female athletes (to match school population).

The treatment part is just a side affect of the male dominated adminstration treating the girls like second class citizens. It is funny, and sad, they built a brand new aux gym complex... Locker room space in the new area girls 76, boys 246. Even when they build, buildings, their bias shows.

Will let you know what I hear.

Give me your email address I will email you the note he sent out.

1. Football coaches "salaries" are a combination of an AD + coaching stipend. Their stipend is NOT 60k. There might be an exception here and there, but that is definitely not the norm.

2. I think the safety equipment is a good thing with the shinguards. Schools should provide those. They provide pads for football, catchers equipment for baseball/softball, etc. Please don't provide cups. If you do, DON'T reissue them. Same with mouthguards.

3. Yes...football has to bring in the money for other sports. I disagree with the buying of cleats for the players and tire of hearing the argument that they can't afford the cleats. There are some soccer players that don't have much money either.

Our AD football coach gets his money this way...

1.4500 for being the AD
2. 14500 for being the Football coach
3. The balance of his 83,000 salary is for teaching classes he does not teach. His total salary is in the FOIA database on the SHJ website...

And to get that much teaching money he would have to have a Phd in our district, which he does not have.

I wonder how they account for cheerleading and dance teams? Do they include these as "sport" teams and consider the participates as athletes? If so you could certainly use these numbers to drive up the opportunity for girls at least on paper. Would the feds view these activities as sports?

The NCAA no longer considers it a sport for title IX purposes based on a federal court ruling so i would figure that the SCHSL would not have to either.

Cheering is in a class all by itself. First off, the only time it is competitive is when it enters "competitions", which are nothing more than cheering tourneys.

I don't consider cheerleading a sport at all. see this article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38347400/ns/...t/#.ToOosuxm2So

I do consider the cheerleaders to be athletic.

Plus, as soon as a cheerleader gets their spot, by a panel of judges that have ZERO connection to the cheerleaders (Imagine if a bunch of people picked your soccer team for you and you had no say), they drop about 300+ dollars for all their initial costs and then everything else on top of that. Sounds more like a private club

The school is trying to count the cheerleaders in their count, not the color guard girls.

The primary purpose for our cheerleaders is, however, to support other athletic teams (football). I.E. they cheer for football more than they compete for themselves. A no no for the OCR to count them as pure athletic teams. (part of the 5 part test to qualify as a sport) Also there has been a rule in place at BSHS where you have to cheer for football or you will not be a varsity competition cheerleader. So, 100% of our varsity team are the same people, sideline and competition.

I am sure the cheerleaders want to be counted, desperate for respect. But, and this is a big but, they should hope that the OCR will not count them, this time. In the long run this would cause the crazy rule above to go away, and get them more support $ from the school. Right now it is vey much like Not so fast says, it is very club like, in a school program.

Any updates or anything new to report?

Nope, government lawyers are SLOOWWW

No answer yet, but if you want a good read... and in my opinion what will happen in BS,

Do a search, office of civil rights closes 10 year old Title IX case against Tacoma public schools.

Their particiaption numbers were superior to many SC schools.

Our AD stepped down this week, to spend time with his family and just be the football coach.

Look for an article in the Spartanburg Hearld Journal soon, couple of days. The school district was found guilty of discrimination for the lack of female athletic opportunities.

That goes for both high schools, Boiling Springs, and Chesnee. It also goes for their middle schools, Chesnee, Rainbow Lake, and Boiling Springs.

A monitoring agreement was signed by DR. (what a joke) Mercer, saying the school will report, allow follow up and visits, and the OCR will not shut the monitoring down until the schools can prove each and every school is compliant.

It may take a few years but they will have to begin to add girls teams EVERYWHERE! And fields, and locker rooms etc, to accomidate same.

Hint: if you are in Boiling Springs Middle school region, you probably are guilty too. If you are in the High schools region, you too. (if you have lacrosse, you may have a year or two of grace) The point is most schools have no balance for their overbloated football teams, and no plan to get there.

Big Hint: Their participation was 41% of their athletes were female. The average for the state is 37%. Hope everyone figures that hint out.

If you do not like this, thank Dr. Mercer, Chuck Gordon, and Bruce Clark for not adding one C team for girls soccer.

ONE stinking team.

Please review the article in the SHJ, google or search go upstate.com.... it is on the front page. I think Bob did a good job staying neutral.

Spartanburg School District 2 violates Title IX feds say - SHJ

Spartanburg School District 2 violates Title IX, feds say
Girls not given equal opportunities at sports, investigation concludes

By Robert W. Dalton
bob.dalton@shj.com
Published: Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 3:15 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, June 22, 2012 at 10:12 p.m.

Spartanburg School District 2 is in violation of federal law because it does not provide equal opportunities for its female athletes, according to an investigation by the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights.

And in a decision that could impact schools statewide, the OCR found that the manner in which Boiling Springs and Chesnee high schools schedule basketball games also violates Title IX, the federal law implemented in 1972 to guarantee equality in programs.

District 2 Superintendent Scott Mercer on June 13 signed an agreement with the OCR to address the issues discovered in the investigation, which began in March 2011 after a complaint from a parent.

The complaint also said the district discriminated against female athletes by failing to provide equivalent equipment and supplies; coaching and compensation of coaches; facilities for practices and games; and medical and training facilities and services. The OCR said there was insufficient evidence to rule the district in violation of Title IX on those accusations.

“I know there are disparities, but we felt good about most of the report,” said Brantley Enloe, District 2’s personnel director who also oversees Title IX compliance. “Obviously, the disparities they noted we’re going to address.”

Title IX requires schools to provide female students with athletic participation opportunities proportionate to female enrollment; demonstrate continued expansion of athletic opportunities for females; and meet the athletic interests and abilities of female students. The OCR, in its letter of finding, said the district does not meet the interests and abilities of its female students.

Of the district’s 2,850 high school students, 46 percent are female. About 31 percent participate in athletics.

Of the 54 percent of male students, 69 percent participate in athletics.

“While Title IX does not require exact proportionality, such a large disparity between enrollment and athletics program participation percentages cannot be due to chance, E.G., to fluctuations in enrollment,” the OCR concluded in its letter of finding sent to the district’s attorney on Wednesday.

The OCR said the district has made no effort to determine whether there are sports not currently offered that female athletes would like to participate in. But in interviews at Boiling Springs High in May 2011, investigators learned that a group of females had expressed interest in lacrosse and took the issue to then-athletic director Bruce Clark and were told the school was not in a financial position to add new teams.

“We have determined that the interests and abilities of the District’s female high school students have not been fully and effectively accommodated by the District’s present athletics program as evidenced by the number of female students who expressed an interest in the addition of lacrosse, the availability of competition in the competitive region, and the lack of any follow-up by the District,” according to the OCR report.

Clark resigned as athletic director the day after Mercer signed the agreement with OCR, citing a desire to spend more time with his family, focus on his duties as head football coach and his rehabilitation for a neck injury. Mercer said that, while some people may “try to connect the dots,” Clark’s resignation was not related to the OCR report.

Mercer said that, as a first step in the resolution process, the district would conduct a survey this fall to determine areas of interest. The district also will implement a roster size policy to increase participation rates.

District 2 also is exploring adding lacrosse, although Mercer said it currently doesn’t have the facilities or money appropriated in the budget.

In addition, Boiling Springs and Chesnee must change the way they schedule varsity basketball games. Traditionally, when the teams play a doubleheader, the girls play the opener and the boys play the nightcap. To give the girls the opportunity to play in the “primetime” slot, the schools must alternate starting times.

The OCR also instructed the district to propose the change at the regional scheduling meeting.

While the OCR’s finding applies only to District 2, schools statewide schedule games in the same manner. Flynn Harrell, the athletic director at Dorman High in Spartanburg School District 6, said the decision could prompt changes elsewhere.

“It could, but really what it boils down to is a region-by-region decision on choices like that,” Harrell said. In Region II-4A (which includes Boiling Springs and Dorman), we talk to the coaches and get a lot of feedback. I don’t know of one girls coach that has said they want it to be the other way around.”

In some states, the junior varsity and varsity boys play at one site, while the junior varsity and varsity girls play the same school at the opposite site, Harrell said.

“There are a lot of different ways of doing it,” Harrell said. “There’s a real hodge-podge. But most places just go with the doubleheader.”

bump, to keep them together, sorry

Dorman adding middle school soccer, next year. Maybe lacrosse, year or two out.

Well done, Dorman, thanks for doing the right thing.

Lacrosse in middle school or HS?

Middle school, was the word from Dr. Owens a year or so after soccer. They have it at the high school.

To date District 2 has not done the survey. I guess they will wait to the last minute. Their deadline is Dec 21, 2012, per their own resolution agreement.(Signed by Mercer on 6-13-2012) They have also tried to duck a FOIA request for the system they will use for the survey. Funny thing, I had an ex adminstrator offer to count the survey results,..., his words "they will just make the results up." Wow, hopefully this is not the case, but you never know.

Re: girls basketball playing the second "primetime game" I read an article from Michigan where a title IX lawsuit brought a change where the girls played after the boys. What happened was in several cases after the boys were done and the girls were on the court warming up many in the crowd got up and left. When asked, several girls said this made them feel worse than the small crowds they played in front of before because the crowd would grow during the game as the time for the boys games came closer and closer. Not making a judgement either way just warning about the law of "unintended consequences."

You hear that story both ways, sometimes it gets better, sometimes it gets worse. Ours will probably get worse until the school builds the girls program. I think they have only won 10 games over 3 years.

The biggest issue is the 500 girl gap, the school is failing to fill with athletic opportunities. Which is currently an intended consequence since they have turned past requests from kids, parents and coaches to add teams!

8000 combined views with the How it really went piece... Wow

Until 11/26/2012 the OCR has rejected the mass complaints, California, Washington, Oregon, and yes SC. They really would only take one complaint at a time.

On 11/26/2012 Dale Rhines wrote a letter to the same people who put these others complaints in, accepting that exact information against Washinton DC.

Another move has been made at the OCR, Russelyn Ali is gone, and a new head of the OCR is coming.

A letter has been written, to Dale, requesting an update on SC, since the same evidence was used for both DC, and SC.

To Date SCDOE said they do not do Title IX, except for hiring. The SCHSL said they do what they are asked to enforce, and thus happily said "We do not do Title IX". At the moment it is on individuals people to file against individual schools or districts. It seems as of 11/26 that may have changed. I will let you know.

AS INFO: you do not have to have a child in a school or district or teach in same to file a complaint. Herb Dempsey and others have done hundreds.

9000 combined views, wow

10,000 views on SCSOCCER and almost 11,000 on Palmetto football talk...

Not bad for "getting the word out".

Have exchanged PM's with DormanSoccer... I think they have the right idea, and some very wonderful things coming.