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In the past 2 weeks I've seen the high emotional rollercoaster of the HS players from tears of joy to tears of defeat. In club games I've never seen it. Are club games just another game. Why is that?
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I would think that it has a good bit to do with who is attending the games and the different pressure a young player feels because of that.
Having mainly mom and dad attend club games creates a certain emotion and atmosphere. Compare this to HS soccer/sports which has all of the players friends (probable romantic interests) and the weight of school pride and their street cred riding on the line. Hence there is possibly more pressure/reward from the HS environment - but usually with a lesser quality of play.
Just my thoughts.
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The reason you have seen emotion the last two weeks is because the players are competing for a chance to win a HS state championship. Don't you see the same emotion during club season when the players are playing in state cup events? You've never seen emotion when the club team wins/loses in the tournament finals? I know it's been my experience...on both sides
Of course, you also have to consider the added emotions of senior players that realize this may be their last game. Underclass players are also dealing with emotions of providing the seniors one more shot...or falling short.
No doubt that HS soccer is more emotional, but I've seen my share of tears on the club fields as well.
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"In club games I've never seen it."
Then you obviously weren't in Rock Hill for State Cup a few weeks ago.
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I think in the HS game you have more of your "buddies," ones you have grown up with. You also have siblings etc. But you cant say there isnt any emotion in club, just not true. Maybe not as much or maybe not as intense but I have seen some pretty heated battles at state cup and regionals.
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"In club games I've never seen it."
Then you obviously weren't in Rock Hill for State Cup a few weeks ago.
My thoughts exactly.
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In the past 2 weeks I've seen the high emotional rollercoaster of the HS players from tears of joy to tears of defeat. In club games I've never seen it. Are club games just another game. Why is that?
Do you start these threads just to stir the pot? We get it! You don't like club soccer. Or at least you don't like club soccer when it comes to CESA. The reality is, there is a club and a level of play for most every soccer player. Not all clubs, teams, or even high school teams are going to be all to everyone. More than likely, club and high school together complete the experience for most soccer players.
High school is a different experience from club. For some players it might be better, for others, worse. Still, to say there is no emotion when losing a club game is ridiculous. I can only imagine that your child must never have lost a State Cup or an important game. Otherwise you would know that plenty of tears are shed when a club team comes up short for that important game they have been preparing for for months.
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MT4ME welcome to the wild and crazy message board where you get both sides of a story. I notice this is only your 2nd post and first day on the board. You seem to know alot about gbdawgs for this being your first day. Or did you just add or change your username...that's what I think! I asked a question and made an observation, which is allowed in an open forum. And yes I ask alot of questions that make some people very angry and some extremely happy, and some who could care less. Well have a blessed day.
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Looks like gb missed the Rules Section, that says Club Pumpers only.
Hmmmmmm...
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I've watched this board for a few years. I think there's no need to stir the pot, and these threads are started to do nothing but start another argument about whether hs or club is best. I've seen the same thread over and over again.
If you don't like a club, go to another. If a club doesn't offer what your child wants or needs, find one that does. If you think the club charges too much, find one with lower fees. I'm not pumping club over high school and you can tell me what from my comment would lead you to believe I am. I am simply saying that there is something for every player, and many clubs, especially the larger ones offer a level for everyone. High school and club can coexist. Each offers something different to a player.
I come occassionally with intention of getting information on SC soccer, both high school and club. As I am reading to find out what is going on I see threads like this that have one purpose, and that's to get yet another argument going about the virtues of club v high school. Has this not been discussed in every way possible or must we find another way to say the same thing?
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MT4ME, Cmon you're kidding, right? Let's say they came to you and asked you to start a "open" soccer forum. Would you throw people out for stirring the pot (as you say)? asking hard questions? calling out an organization when you don't agree with them. Maybe you would just let people in that are yes people? The problem is when someone stops asking hard questions, that's when someone's usually getting away with something they shouldn't be. And please this isn't your first soccer forum rodeo?
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In the past 2 weeks I've seen the high emotional rollercoaster of the HS players from tears of joy to tears of defeat. In club games I've never seen it. Are club games just another game. Why is that?
To get back to the topic, I've seen high emotions and complete boredom at both. I think that the emotion lies more in the player and the circumstance of the game instead of the sanctioning body.
There probably wasn't much emotion at the 22-0 HS game in SC this year. And there probably wasn't much emotion in many of the #1 vs. #8 first round state cup games. Yet, we've all seen high school games where one team is overjoyed and another is crushed. We've all (even you BT) seen club games that have had the same effect on players and parents alike. I've seen fights in HS games and I've seen players make unbelievable comments etc. towards each other on social networks over a regular season 'meaningless' club game. Anybody ever seen grown men and women get 'emotional' on the sideline of a club game or escorted out of a HS stadium? I'll bet more people have seen both than have seen neither.
Without bashing HS or club, it goes back to the player or the coach or the parent or the game more than it does HS or club.
On another note, last year I got absolutely blasted for suggesting that many first round playoff games were ridiculous. Wish I had Bomber to stick up for me when people got mad at me for suggesting that a system that allowed a team with a losing record to enter into the playoffs and get beat 13-0 was just absurd. Oh well.
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i'll bite,.... club leads to much better HS soccer. Too many lowcountry HS kids are not playing club & it shows.
i think sville, nchas, gcreek, mcorner, chas, ji are selling themselves short, figure it out & fix.
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MT, if you don't like the thread, go to another.
This is an open forum designed to promote questions on and about various topics. Not designed to be silenced by people like you.
And Harry, agreed, teams with losing records have no business in the playoffs.
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MT4ME, Cmon you're kidding, right? Let's say they came to you and asked you to start a "open" soccer forum. Would you throw people out for stirring the pot (as you say)? asking hard questions? calling out an organization when you don't agree with them. Maybe you would just let people in that are yes people? The problem is when someone stops asking hard questions, that's when someone's usually getting away with something they shouldn't be. And please this isn't your first soccer forum rodeo?
Dawg,
Are you really asking the hard questions or just another one to find a way to bash the club experience? Most parents feel both high school and club benefit their child. Most players feel the same. I can't imagine a high school team would be successful without its club players. At the same time, club players want to play for their high school. It seems to me that most of the time both can exist alongside one another without a problem.
I am not sure what it was that made you so bitter about club. Whatever it was, you can be assured not everyone shares your feelings (although someone will probably feel the need to jump in and say I'm drinking the club kool-aid. Isn't that what happens about now? Or will I just be told to go away for questioning why we once again have to talk about which is better, club or hs, while measuring the value of each by the number of tears shed?).
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On another note, last year I got absolutely blasted for suggesting that many first round playoff games were ridiculous. Wish I had Bomber to stick up for me when people got mad at me for suggesting that a system that allowed a team with a losing record to enter into the playoffs and get beat 13-0 was just absurd. Oh well.
Harry, those playoff games of 13-0 are about as absurd as being on a CESA Challenge team, being forced to play in both the Challenge and Premier league, getting your brains beat out every week in the Premier League by the Ponte Vedra's and Boca's of the world, who usually easily handle the CESA Premier teams and on top of that, all the travel required to play all those games.
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Bomber, I'm confused. Are you talking about the 92 CESA team again? Because they went 3-5-3 in the premier league. Not exactly 'getting your brains beat out every week'. They lost 3-1 to Ponte Vedra. I saw that the other SC club went 0-11-0 in the league and lost 9-0 to Ponte Vedra. I think they traveled twice as well. Unless you count going to Gastonia and Columbia as a big journey. Do you have your SC teams mixed up? Are you bashing that other SC team? What do you have against that team? Surely they've never done anything to you.
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Getting back to emotions, (which is what I thought this was about) what are your thoughts there Bomber? Is it that club games are 'just another game' as BT suggests? There was a game this past fall in the upstate on a Wed. night between a team that finished 3rd in the SCSCL and a team whose results didn't count in anyone's standings (though they went undefeated). So it should have been a meaningless game, right? How were your emotions before/during that game? How were gbdawgs? Were they calm because it was a club game? Or were they excitable because there were circumstances about the game that mattered to you?
So, I'll get back to my original question. Is it the player, game, parent etc. that determines the answer to gbdawgs' original question or is it simply a matter of hs is exciting and club isn't?
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MT4ME, Cmon you're kidding, right? Let's say they came to you and asked you to start a "open" soccer forum. Would you throw people out for stirring the pot (as you say)? asking hard questions? calling out an organization when you don't agree with them. Maybe you would just let people in that are yes people? The problem is when someone stops asking hard questions, that's when someone's usually getting away with something they shouldn't be. And please this isn't your first soccer forum rodeo?
Dawg,
Are you really asking the hard questions or just another one to find a way to bash the club experience? Most parents feel both high school and club benefit their child. Most players feel the same. I can't imagine a high school team would be successful without its club players. At the same time, club players want to play for their high school. It seems to me that most of the time both can exist alongside one another without a problem.
I am not sure what it was that made you so bitter about club. Whatever it was, you can be assured not everyone shares your feelings (although someone will probably feel the need to jump in and say I'm drinking the club kool-aid. Isn't that what happens about now? Or will I just be told to go away for questioning why we once again have to talk about which is better, club or hs, while measuring the value of each by the number of tears shed?).
Only asked the "emotion question MT, didn't say nothing about what's better HS or Club. You did make some good points MT. I'm sure I'll have more material (stirring the pot) in the future, that you can comment on. I'm sure you'll be able to comment on all of them in this open forum. Don't we live in a great country where censorship is fround on? Have a great day and nice holiday weekend.
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In the past 2 weeks I've seen the high emotional rollercoaster of the HS players from tears of joy to tears of defeat. In club games I've never seen it. Are club games just another game. Why is that?
To get back to the topic, I've seen high emotions and complete boredom at both. I think that the emotion lies more in the player and the circumstance of the game instead of the sanctioning body.
There probably wasn't much emotion at the 22-0 HS game in SC this year. And there probably wasn't much emotion in many of the #1 vs. #8 first round state cup games. Yet, we've all seen high school games where one team is overjoyed and another is crushed. We've all (even you BT) seen club games that have had the same effect on players and parents alike. I've seen fights in HS games and I've seen players make unbelievable comments etc. towards each other on social networks over a regular season 'meaningless' club game. Anybody ever seen grown men and women get 'emotional' on the sideline of a club game or escorted out of a HS stadium? I'll bet more people have seen both than have seen neither.
Without bashing HS or club, it goes back to the player or the coach or the parent or the game more than it does HS or club.
On another note, last year I got absolutely blasted for suggesting that many first round playoff games were ridiculous. Wish I had Bomber to stick up for me when people got mad at me for suggesting that a system that allowed a team with a losing record to enter into the playoffs and get beat 13-0 was just absurd. Oh well.
I agree with you Harry on the emotion question, I just saw alot of it on the high school scene the past couple of weeks. Which isn't a bad thing. It probably builds character in many of these players. I think Bombers point is that in club there are so many games and venues that the player views it as just another game which removes emotion. In high school you have 1 goal, and that's to win the state championship, in club, you have r3pl champ,ecnl champ, state champ which might be dilluting it for the player. It probably means more to a Ponte Vedra playing Boca every year for the top spot where a rivalry has probably been developed. Whereas the the lower tiered teams feel like they have no chance year in and year out.
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MT4ME, Cmon you're kidding, right? Let's say they came to you and asked you to start a "open" soccer forum. Would you throw people out for stirring the pot (as you say)? asking hard questions? calling out an organization when you don't agree with them. Maybe you would just let people in that are yes people? The problem is when someone stops asking hard questions, that's when someone's usually getting away with something they shouldn't be. And please this isn't your first soccer forum rodeo?
Dawg,
Are you really asking the hard questions or just another one to find a way to bash the club experience? Most parents feel both high school and club benefit their child. Most players feel the same. I can't imagine a high school team would be successful without its club players. At the same time, club players want to play for their high school. It seems to me that most of the time both can exist alongside one another without a problem.
I am not sure what it was that made you so bitter about club. Whatever it was, you can be assured not everyone shares your feelings (although someone will probably feel the need to jump in and say I'm drinking the club kool-aid. Isn't that what happens about now? Or will I just be told to go away for questioning why we once again have to talk about which is better, club or hs, while measuring the value of each by the number of tears shed?).
Only asked the "emotion question MT, didn't say nothing about what's better HS or Club. You did make some good points MT. I'm sure I'll have more material (stirring the pot) in the future, that you can comment on. I'm sure you'll be able to comment on all of them in this open forum. Don't we live in a great country where censorship is fround on? Have a great day and nice holiday weekend.
Who said anything about censorship? I'm just questioning the need to talk about high school vs club yet again (and essentially asking why there is so much emotion with hs and little with club.). In the last few months the subject has been beaten to death. They are two different experiences. One isn't better than the other for each player, although, for an individual player, one may be vastly better than the other.
Maybe someone just needs to do a poll and settle it. Which is better:
Club
High School
Neither, both offen different, yet valuable experiences to players.
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Quote:
Getting back to emotions, (which is what I thought this was about) what are your thoughts there Bomber? Is it that club games are 'just another game' as BT suggests? There was a game this past fall in the upstate on a Wed. night between a team that finished 3rd in the SCSCL and a team whose results didn't count in anyone's standings (though they went undefeated). So it should have been a meaningless game, right? How were your emotions before/during that game? How were gbdawgs? Were they calm because it was a club game? Or were they excitable because there were circumstances about the game that mattered to you?
So, I'll get back to my original question. Is it the player, game, parent etc. that determines the answer to gbdawgs' original question or is it simply a matter of hs is exciting and club isn't?
Good point AH, I stand corrected, great 4-2 game between a pick up 1st year team from Piedmont who practiced 1-2 days a week.(sometimes not at all)and the South Carolina State Champs. I was on pins and needles all day, I can't speak for my daughter though, I bet she was nervous but there were no tears of joy or tears of defeat from either side. Just a good soccer game
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No Harry, was NOT a 92 team.
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No Harry, was NOT a 92 team.
Then, you've got me at a loss. What team played in Challenge league and Premier and got beat by Ponte Vedra and Boca?
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[quoteGood point AH, I stand corrected, great 4-2 game between a pick up 1st year team from Piedmont who practiced 1-2 days a week.(sometimes not at all)and the South Carolina State Champs. I was on pins and needles all day, I can't speak for my daughter though, I bet she was nervous but there were no tears of joy or tears of defeat from either side. Just a good soccer game
Believe scysa has it listed as 3-1. Not really important though. But a good game with some emotion though?
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As to emotion, where High School clearly has the edge, many of the teams are rivals, thus many of the players know each other, many play together in Club, you've got students, parents and friends in attendance. You've got music, an announcer, the National Anthem, a scoreboard, write-ups in the papers, coverage on TV...
Hands down, a cooler environment. Yes, there are some "lopsided" games, but that also happens in Club.
Club does continue the development (or should) of the players.
It should not be a -which is better? They are really two entirely different environments.
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I certainly won't/can't argue about the environments. But is the announcer a plus? There's one or two that are completely ridiculous.
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I don't believe that there is a "one size fits all" answer to the OP.
HS have rivalries. There are some rivalries in club, but not to the extent that there are in HS. Definitely more emotion plays in to the equation with those HS matches.
There is also the "Senior" complex with HS. They want to go out on top, etc. Obviously, not the case with club.
But, there are club matches that have plenty of emotion: state cup, tourneys, regionals, nationals, etc. I think it depends on the emphasis the coach puts on the matches.
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The announcer at Riverside HS is awesome. They should pay him. I heard the HS coach at RHS has asked him to stay on even though his daughter is graduating.
Just ask the JL Mann varsity girls soccer coach. She loves him.
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I wish there was more excitement in club games. I think because of a lot of the neutral sites they have to play it may take some of the air out of the games. I wish it was possible for each club to have at least one stadium field or something like it and and have more feature games. I know my oldest daughter went to England several years ago and got to watch several premier league games and she came home with a new excitement for the game. We played mauldin a couple of years ago and it was the crazest game as far as fans I have seen at any HS game. Mauldin brought the Hooligans and we had some of our own. People still talk about that game and that is what makes it great I think. When people still talk about an exciting game years later. I think clubs ought to hand out Vuvuzela's at every game.
That there is an RV Clark......
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I changed the quote just a bit.
"Youth soccer is a good thing 'cause it keeps the parents off the streets, and it keeps the kids out of the house!"
Yogi Berra
Last edited by Coach Tim; 05/27/11 03:17 PM.
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No Harry, was NOT a 92 team.
Then, you've got me at a loss. What team played in Challenge league and Premier and got beat by Ponte Vedra and Boca?
Harry, you really seem overly concerned as to what team this was. Sounding like a Club Director again.
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Coach Tim, Yogi is a funny man!
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I think clubs ought to hand out Vuvuzela's at every game. Nooooo! Then the fees will just go up! 
We didn’t underestimate them. They were a lot better than we thought.
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agreed. no vuvuzela's at club games. the volume on my ipod only can only block out so much.
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No Harry, was NOT a 92 team.
Then, you've got me at a loss. What team played in Challenge league and Premier and got beat by Ponte Vedra and Boca?
Harry, you really seem overly concerned as to what team this was. Sounding like a Club Director again.
Overly concerned? I asked you once which team you were describing. Can you do it or not?
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there was only one to my knowledge that played both leagues, but bomber must be talking about some other team. the team you're thinking of, harry, showed great passion against PV, left everything it had on the field and walked off with heads up. sometimes a loss isn't followed by lots of tears, because the players know they brought everything they had to the game. disappointed over the loss after a great effort, sure, but not necessarily cause for a teary ride home.
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One big difference is that club games have mostly parents at them while HS games have parents and fans. This can certainly add to the emotions at the game.
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AH err Harry, the team is CESA 93 Girls Challenge. The year is 2009. Coached by the great Keith Fredrickson. Too bad CESA let him get away. Great coach, class act.
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(2008, the year the 93 premier played in R3 league by petition as 3rd team from sc)
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The premier team had to petition as the 3rd team?
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AH err Harry, the team is CESA 93 Girls Challenge. The year is 2009. Coached by the great Keith Fredrickson. Too bad CESA let him get away. Great coach, class act.
Oh yeah, the 93 Challenge did get into premier league. They were in the finals with the premier team the year before. I'm still waiting for another club to pull that one off. I think the CESA girls have done it 4 times now. The challenge teams do struggle in that league, but I don't think anyone of them have gotten their 'brains beaten' week in and week out.
I think there are 2 people that know the real story regarding Keith leaving. I'd be surprised if 'let him get away' was accurate though.
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you're right. fall 2008 both cesa '93 teams played into R3, spring 2008 '93 premier petitioned in.
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I think there are 2 people that know the real story regarding Keith leaving. I'd be surprised if 'let him get away' was accurate though.
Just trying to be nice with my comment.
I have great respect for Keith as a Coach and a Gentleman.
I hope he is doing well wherever he is.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Quote:
I think there are 2 people that know the real story regarding Keith leaving. I'd be surprised if 'let him get away' was accurate though.
Just trying to be nice with my comment.
I have great respect for Keith as a Coach and a Gentleman.
I hope he is doing well wherever he is.
Call me Delta, was that a post killer or what?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
bench
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bench
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1 |
It was a post killer. if only 2 people know that story it must be one of CESA's best kept secrets!
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263 |
Quote:
It was a post killer. if only 2 people know that story it must be one of CESA's best kept secrets!
No doubt there are more, but the "Fear Factor" comes into play everytime. Fear to say anything, for fear of what might happen...
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