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Coach
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Joined: May 2002
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BD...you speak the truth, as long as the student demonstrates success in those high-level classes. They may or may not be the ones with the greatest ability, but they demonstrate that they are the ones who are willing to challenge themselves most.
Still, in our schools we don't tell students that they either have to take all AP classes or they can't take any AP classes at all. We encourage them to take as many as they can, and we push them to challenge themselves, but we do give them leeway. The prevailing philosophy is that the more high-level, challenging classes a student can take, the more prepared he/she will be for the next level--much like the philosophy supporting the DA. This is tempered by the accompanying philosophy that taking some AP classes is better for the student than taking none, and if we preclude AP students from taking any CP classes, there would be fewer who would be willing to commit to the AP curriculum, and therefore more students who would take no AP classes at all.
My question of the DA has never been whether it has great value to the elite player who wishes to gain admission to the Harvards of the soccer world. Quite obviously, it does. My question is, could the DA find a way to provide more than one option--a 10-month season for those who are fully committed, and a shorter season to provide that same top-level training to some of our potential high-flyers who show great promise, but haven't reached the point in their lives where they are driven to commmit to the exclusion of all else?
Enough devil's advocate for now, as much fun as it is...cards on the table. If having a player who misses his high school season to play full-time in the DA is sad, how much sadder for the sport is it if many more high-potential players are NOT encouraged to even try for that level, because it means they are automatically lost to their school coaches and teammates?
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Feb 2006
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hat-trick
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hat-trick
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Can anyone say Jeremy Lin?
But we've said from the start that there are exceptions. Lots of 'em. I think I heard on The Herd today....that there have been 3 NBA players from Harvard and either 7 or 8 Presidents.
Playing basketball in the Ivy League does not preclude you from an NBA career. But your odds are better off at an SEC or ACC or Big East school.
But we're off topic aren't we?
Again, this argement centers in on the USSF decsion to extend the Academy season to a 10 month season and preclude HS involvement.
Be honest here......what offends you?
Is it the expansion of the Academy season? Or the explicit precluding of HS soccer for Academy players?
If USSF expanded the Academy season and left the issue of HS play alone.....leaving it to the player and his Academy and HS coach to manage......does that alleviate the concerns on the forum?
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Joined: Feb 2006
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hat-trick
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Quote:
BD...you speak the truth, as long as the student demonstrates success in those high-level classes. They may or may not be the ones with the greatest ability, but they demonstrate that they are the ones who are willing to challenge themselves most.
Still, in our schools we don't tell students that they either have to take all AP classes or they can't take any AP classes at all. We encourage them to take as many as they can, and we push them to challenge themselves, but we do give them leeway. The prevailing philosophy is that the more high-level, challenging classes a student can take, the more prepared he/she will be for the next level--much like the philosophy supporting the DA. This is tempered by the accompanying philosophy that taking some AP classes is better for the student than taking none, and if we preclude AP students from taking any CP classes, there would be fewer who would be willing to commit to the AP curriculum, and therefore more students who would take no AP classes at all.
My question of the DA has never been whether it has great value to the elite player who wishes to gain admission to the Harvards of the soccer world. Quite obviously, it does. My question is, could the DA find a way to provide more than one option--a 10-month season for those who are fully committed, and a shorter season to provide that same top-level training to some of our potential high-flyers who show great promise, but haven't reached the point in their lives where they are driven to commmit to the exclusion of all else?
Enough devil's advocate for now, as much fun as it is...cards on the table. If having a player who misses his high school season to play full-time in the DA is sad, how much sadder for the sport is it if many more high-potential players are NOT encouraged to even try for that level, because it means they are automatically lost to their school coaches and teammates?
A well written response. Thank you. But you mention sad and sadder....and I just think thats a little overwrought. Stuff happens and kids adjust. Adults tend to obsess about things more than kids do. I wish my son could have played more basketball but the conflict with plain old club soccer messed that up and his school bball career started and ended with 7th grade. He never looked back, never missed a beat.
This may have all been more palatable had USSF merely extended the season and left the HS piece to the individuals involved. But what would have probably happened.....were big chunks of rosters of kids trying to do both and either getting hurt, sick of the sport, or cutting corners on Academy training in order to keep their irons hot enough on the HS end.
10 month Academy is the right thing to do for the talented and motivated kid. Those that are truly torn....will need to make a choice. And thats ok. Some kids will drop out of Academy and invariably one of them will turn into a Jeremy Lin story. And that will be great!!
Kids from Harvard can play in the NBA and kids from non-Academy teams can play in the ACC and/or the MLS.
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"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.
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kick off
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kick off
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This has been very interesting, but let me point out a few things that have been overlooked by all this enthusiastic conversation. Many if not most kids get involved and the first thing that keeps them coming back is friendship. The peer pressure that will be on these players is something that is not being addressed. I'm not only talking about the direct pressure but the pressure applied by coaches HS and club. I have seen it as a parent, working on a HS staff, and also with a club. The costs of being with an elite club is multiplied with the travel (cost has been spoken about) required. I have also seen coaches blackball players because they have opted to take a break for whatever reason. One actually said that she will pay for her disicion not to play. These young men and women have and will make sacrifices to play, but until we can remove the meddling and politics of the parent and coaches they don't stand a chance. Maybe we should approach this like ancient Sparta, take the kids away at birth and train them to be warriors for the state, then everyone can be happy. Please remember that they are still kids and learning the lessons of the world. lets guide them educate them but they are the ones that will live the path they choose. Youth sports are still for the kids, thats whey we became involved was for the kids right or are we trying to live thru them as parents. I would ask my kids what makes a good player and what makes a great player? A good play can do many things but a great player not only can do that, but makes all the players around them better. ITS FOR THE KIDS!!!!!!
ALWAYS REMEMBER ITS 4 THE KIDS!
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hat-trick
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hat-trick
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Just curious.....how many mediocre Academy training sessions have you been to?
While I appreciate your honesty, we just have to flat out disagree. My experience over the last couple of years tells me that Academy training and Academy league play is night and day different from club training and Region 3 play. There are exceptions.....out of the what, 10 R3PL East teams in the 93 boys.....I felt both CESA Premier and Florida Rush would be solid competitively in Academy. Not great, not awful. Solid teams. I didn't see one other team in that age group that I felt could consistently compete at the Academy level on a day in day out basis. Again, I'm not talking about getting stoked up to scrimmage an Academy team that may or may not be as motivated to play you. I'm talking playing 30+ games. Two teams out of 10.
We're not even talking HS at this point. We're comparing Academy to R3PLE play. No doubt....that there are a handful of HS programs in this state who boast similar levels of play. I loved watching the Northwestern boys teams from a few years ago with Enzo and Alex and Ricky and Dennis and Shawn and crowd. Great team!!! But the only other team in the region who could stay within 5 goals was Fort Mill.
Academy is inherently better than HS for developing players. If you really don't believe that....
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Going forward, are there any answers to these questions:
What will be the methods of assessment? When should we see the fruits of this approach? Has US Soccer outlined specific timelines and goals to be reached?
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kick off
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Quote:
"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.
Exactly. You don't see the top basketball people telling people to move to AAU year round if you are a star (and there are a lot of really bad high school basketball coaches). In fact, Georgetown has a freshman on their team who never played AAU ball. If you're good, you're good. Other sports just do a better job of identifying talent (someone like Anthony Davis, a late bloomer who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft, would have never made it in soccer because he wasn't good until his senior season). High school has many benefits, including forcing the top players to take over games. To act like there is only one way to get to the top, which USSF is certainly doing, is incorrect. It's ok though, we can continue to watch our U17 National Team embarrass themselves at the World Cup to show how much better our top young players are than previous times due to the new fad.
What makes me laugh is how all the DA team statements I've read make it sound like they had no choice in the matter and this move was forced upon them, and then the USSF said the teams passed the move overwhelmingly.
We really need to stop trying to emulate other countries and come up with our own method. But since we do copy so much, why is it that we are still pay to play?
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hat-trick
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Quote:
This has been very interesting, but let me point out a few things that have been overlooked by all this enthusiastic conversation. Many if not most kids get involved and the first thing that keeps them coming back is friendship. The peer pressure that will be on these players is something that is not being addressed. I'm not only talking about the direct pressure but the pressure applied by coaches HS and club. I have seen it as a parent, working on a HS staff, and also with a club. The costs of being with an elite club is multiplied with the travel (cost has been spoken about) required. I have also seen coaches blackball players because they have opted to take a break for whatever reason. One actually said that she will pay for her disicion not to play. These young men and women have and will make sacrifices to play, but until we can remove the meddling and politics of the parent and coaches they don't stand a chance. Maybe we should approach this like ancient Sparta, take the kids away at birth and train them to be warriors for the state, then everyone can be happy. Please remember that they are still kids and learning the lessons of the world. lets guide them educate them but they are the ones that will live the path they choose. Youth sports are still for the kids, thats whey we became involved was for the kids right or are we trying to live thru them as parents. I would ask my kids what makes a good player and what makes a great player? A good play can do many things but a great player not only can do that, but makes all the players around them better. ITS FOR THE KIDS!!!!!!
Sorry.
If a high school coach is worth a lick he will support the kid in the decision that is in the best interests of the player. Our HS has lost a couple of kids to Academy. The coach wished them well......he understood what it offered them. Would our school have had a better school team if all possible players played? Of course!!! But he coached the kids he had and understood why, on the ones he didn't.
All the "peer" pressure is really misguided parental or adult pressure. Most kids are chill.....their buddies are their buddies regardless of what sport they play or what team they play for.
9 times out of 10 the issues you speak of.......are the words or actions of a whacked parent, who wants to impose his preferences and choices on everyone else.
USSF is NOT saying that carded soccer players can't play HS. They are saying....that they have a program that they believe is the best method for training and developing the best soccer players. And that this program is going to be 10 months long.
If the "cost" of participating is too high.....then the kid or the parent should walk away and take an alternate path. Play for CESA or Mount Pleasant. Work your tail off. It will work out for you.
But playing in Academy will require the committment.
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