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Did NOT say Academy isn't inherently better (or worse).

I AM saying that you'd be surprised how many Academy sides are pretty mediocre, and don't NECESSARILY represent a great option. Over the last several years, I've seen about 30 different Academy sides play -- including a bunch of MLS-affiliated Academy sides -- and 6-8 train. I've seen how the kids are coached/transported/housed/fed/cared for (by various programs) "on the road." So I'm not "assuming" here. I have seen/watched/evaluated.

"LoveIt" has a great point. The pressure from coaches is above and beyond reasonable. Kids are recruited from a very young age to play for this or that club, Academy, H.S. side, etc. Parents buy in to the "college scholarship" myth, then spend what amnounts to a fair-sized college fund on training. That's one CHOICE! And choice is they key.

The "best interests" of some kids are met by Academy.
The "best interests" of others are met by high school.
And, at the core of this discussion, the "best interests" of yet others are met by a reasonable combination of BOTH.

The proposed new format is in the best interests of a USMNT hierarchy that, through many regimes, has fallen short of its stated goal to be truly competitive at the highest international level. Instead of admitting personal shortcomings, the hierarchy targets and tweaks a "system." Perhaps, someday, we'll stumble onto the right developmental "system." More likely, we'll stumble across a golden generation of players, then mistakenly presume that whatever training produced "them" is the single, right, way.

In reality, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat.

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"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.


Exactly. You don't see the top basketball people telling people to move to AAU year round if you are a star (and there are a lot of really bad high school basketball coaches). In fact, Georgetown has a freshman on their team who never played AAU ball. If you're good, you're good. Other sports just do a better job of identifying talent (someone like Anthony Davis, a late bloomer who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft, would have never made it in soccer because he wasn't good until his senior season). High school has many benefits, including forcing the top players to take over games. To act like there is only one way to get to the top, which USSF is certainly doing, is incorrect. It's ok though, we can continue to watch our U17 National Team embarrass themselves at the World Cup to show how much better our top young players are than previous times due to the new fad.

What makes me laugh is how all the DA team statements I've read make it sound like they had no choice in the matter and this move was forced upon them, and then the USSF said the teams passed the move overwhelmingly.

We really need to stop trying to emulate other countries and come up with our own method. But since we do copy so much, why is it that we are still pay to play?




You can't compare basketball with soccer. The depth and breadth of player pools are radically different, as are the depth and breadth of coaching qualifications in the two sports.

I'm sure there are good basketball coaches in England or Germany. But my guess is the average coach is probably not comparable to what we have here. Now soccer coaches in those countries......I have no doubt that the average 40 year old dad there knows more about the game than a significant number of HS coaches here.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.


Exactly. You don't see the top basketball people telling people to move to AAU year round if you are a star (and there are a lot of really bad high school basketball coaches). In fact, Georgetown has a freshman on their team who never played AAU ball. If you're good, you're good. Other sports just do a better job of identifying talent (someone like Anthony Davis, a late bloomer who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft, would have never made it in soccer because he wasn't good until his senior season). High school has many benefits, including forcing the top players to take over games. To act like there is only one way to get to the top, which USSF is certainly doing, is incorrect. It's ok though, we can continue to watch our U17 National Team embarrass themselves at the World Cup to show how much better our top young players are than previous times due to the new fad.

What makes me laugh is how all the DA team statements I've read make it sound like they had no choice in the matter and this move was forced upon them, and then the USSF said the teams passed the move overwhelmingly.

We really need to stop trying to emulate other countries and come up with our own method. But since we do copy so much, why is it that we are still pay to play?




You can't compare basketball with soccer. The depth and breadth of player pools are radically different, as are the depth and breadth of coaching qualifications in the two sports.

I'm sure there are good basketball coaches in England or Germany. But my guess is the average coach is probably not comparable to what we have here. Now soccer coaches in those countries......I have no doubt that the average 40 year old dad there knows more about the game than a significant number of HS coaches here.


Our top youth soccer coaches here are more qualified than a lot of AAU basketball coaches, yet basketball still produces far better players. Which goes back to my original point pages ago, coaching is very overrated in terms of developing stars. The reason we turn out basketball superstars isn't because of some fantastic development system or some amazing AAU coach, it is because the kid plays 6+ hours a day 7 days a week. The reason we don't turn out soccer superstars isn't because a lack of top tier coaches, it is because most top players don't practice often on their own.

Until we get inner city kids playing soccer, which I don't foresee happening any time soon if ever, we won't be a soccer power...period. Those are the kids that will put in the work needed to be a superstar, not some upper middle class kid whose parents pay thousands a year to play and he goes home and plays video games after practice. Our current USMNT coach said at the 2010 World Cup the reason we are behind is because we don't have inner city kids playing soccer. Is the change in the DA going to change that? lol. I'm assuming due to the extra four months, it is only going to get more expensive...

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Quote:

Did NOT say Academy isn't inherently better (or worse).

I AM saying that you'd be surprised how many Academy sides are pretty mediocre, and don't NECESSARILY represent a great option. Over the last several years, I've seen about 30 different Academy sides play -- including a bunch of MLS-affiliated Academy sides -- and 6-8 train. I've seen how the kids are coached/transported/housed/fed/cared for (by various programs) "on the road." So I'm not "assuming" here. I have seen/watched/evaluated.

"LoveIt" has a great point. The pressure from coaches is above and beyond reasonable. Kids are recruited from a very young age to play for this or that club, Academy, H.S. side, etc. Parents buy in to the "college scholarship" myth, then spend what amnounts to a fair-sized college fund on training. That's one CHOICE! And choice is they key.

The "best interests" of some kids are met by Academy.
The "best interests" of others are met by high school.
And, at the core of this discussion, the "best interests" of yet others are met by a reasonable combination of BOTH.

The proposed new format is in the best interests of a USMNT hierarchy that, through many regimes, has fallen short of its stated goal to be truly competitive at the highest international level. Instead of admitting personal shortcomings, the hierarchy targets and tweaks a "system." Perhaps, someday, we'll stumble onto the right developmental "system." More likely, we'll stumble across a golden generation of players, then mistakenly presume that whatever training produced "them" is the single, right, way.

In reality, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat.





I agree with your last couple of paragraphs. Unfortunately life doesn't always allow a smorgasboard of choices or options. I too share a distrust of bureaucracy, including soccer bureaucracy. But I really liked the Academy program and think that they are "on to" something.

My son benefited soccer wise by playing R3 in the Fall and Academy in the winter/spring. He was absoltuely sharper and absoltuely benefitted by playing R3 in the fall instead of HS. I saw him grow as a player from this approach.

Kids that are diehard soccer players will benefit from 10 month Academy. I guarantee it.

Now...these guys (Claudia Reyna, et al) aren't developing a roadmap for life. They aren't directly interested in kids being well rounded or how kids can positively impact other kids by playing in HS. They aren't focussed on that at all. They are only interested....in figuring out how to improve the depth and breadth of the elite player pool. Thats it.

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Actually, there are many brilliant basketball coaching minds in Europe. The reason you don't see/hear many of them at the highest level here is the language barrier.
I must say, though, that I find the automatic connection between a German/British/Spanish/Italian accent and unique coaching insight more than a bit presumptuous.
Guess I just know too many "Americans" who know absolutely nothing about baseball/basketball/football to assume we're inherently qualified to coach those sports in Europe.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.


Exactly. You don't see the top basketball people telling people to move to AAU year round if you are a star (and there are a lot of really bad high school basketball coaches). In fact, Georgetown has a freshman on their team who never played AAU ball. If you're good, you're good. Other sports just do a better job of identifying talent (someone like Anthony Davis, a late bloomer who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft, would have never made it in soccer because he wasn't good until his senior season). High school has many benefits, including forcing the top players to take over games. To act like there is only one way to get to the top, which USSF is certainly doing, is incorrect. It's ok though, we can continue to watch our U17 National Team embarrass themselves at the World Cup to show how much better our top young players are than previous times due to the new fad.

What makes me laugh is how all the DA team statements I've read make it sound like they had no choice in the matter and this move was forced upon them, and then the USSF said the teams passed the move overwhelmingly.

We really need to stop trying to emulate other countries and come up with our own method. But since we do copy so much, why is it that we are still pay to play?




You can't compare basketball with soccer. The depth and breadth of player pools are radically different, as are the depth and breadth of coaching qualifications in the two sports.

I'm sure there are good basketball coaches in England or Germany. But my guess is the average coach is probably not comparable to what we have here. Now soccer coaches in those countries......I have no doubt that the average 40 year old dad there knows more about the game than a significant number of HS coaches here.


Our top youth soccer coaches here are more qualified than a lot of AAU basketball coaches, yet basketball still produces far better players. Which goes back to my original point pages ago, coaching is very overrated in terms of developing stars. The reason we turn out basketball superstars isn't because of some fantastic development system or some amazing AAU coach, it is because the kid plays 6+ hours a day 7 days a week. The reason we don't turn out soccer superstars isn't because a lack of top tier coaches, it is because most top players don't practice often on their own.

Until we get inner city kids playing soccer, which I don't foresee happening any time soon if ever, we won't be a soccer power...period. Those are the kids that will put in the work needed to be a superstar, not some upper middle class kid whose parents pay thousands a year to play and he goes home and plays video games after practice. Our current USMNT coach said at the 2010 World Cup the reason we are behind is because we don't have inner city kids playing soccer. Is the change in the DA going to change that? lol. I'm assuming due to the extra four months, it is only going to get more expensive...




No doubt that our top youth soccer coaches are more qualified than a lot of AAU coaches. But I would doubt that the average HS soccer coach is as qualified as the average AAU coach. I would doubt....that the average HS soccer coach is as qualified as the average HS basketball coach.

For every Shilo Tisdale or Dom Wren, there are 10 guys out there that are either posers.... or asst football coaches collecting the $1800 stipend.

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Actually, there are many brilliant basketball coaching minds in Europe. The reason you don't see/hear many of them at the highest level here is the language barrier.
I must say, though, that I find the automatic connection between a German/British/Spanish/Italian accent and unique coaching insight more than a bit presumptuous.
Guess I just know too many "Americans" who know absolutely nothing about baseball/basketball/football to assume we're inherently qualified to coach those sports in Europe.




Of course there are!! There just aren't many. Certainly not when compared to a sport like soccer.

Doesn't necessarily come down to coaching insight so much as it does understanding the game. I would think that an American kid who grew up playing baseball in the back yard and little league from the age of 5 and continued on thru HS baseball....watching it on tv all the time, grew up going to Braves games a couple of times a year.....could spit out the starting lineup and batting averages of his team..........probably has a reasonably solid understanding of the game.

That understanding and cultural awareness exists in this country for baseball and basketball and football. And probably NASCAR. jk.

We're not there for soccer. With the growth of the game and immigration we may be less than a generation away though.

The average English kid or German kid o Italian kid grew up playing soccer and seeing it everywhere. Their Elite coach may be no better than ours, but there average.......is better.

Thats my point.

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Quote:

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Quote:

Quote:

"Offends" is the wrong word, for me anyway.
What "bothers" me is the presumption that Academy training is the single best avenue to USMNT success (which we all KNOW is the primary reason this is being done), combined with the 6-months good, 10-months-better logic.
Guess I've seen too many mediocre Academy programs, and too many productive high school and college programs, to believe that one way is inherently "better" than the other.


Exactly. You don't see the top basketball people telling people to move to AAU year round if you are a star (and there are a lot of really bad high school basketball coaches). In fact, Georgetown has a freshman on their team who never played AAU ball. If you're good, you're good. Other sports just do a better job of identifying talent (someone like Anthony Davis, a late bloomer who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft, would have never made it in soccer because he wasn't good until his senior season). High school has many benefits, including forcing the top players to take over games. To act like there is only one way to get to the top, which USSF is certainly doing, is incorrect. It's ok though, we can continue to watch our U17 National Team embarrass themselves at the World Cup to show how much better our top young players are than previous times due to the new fad.

What makes me laugh is how all the DA team statements I've read make it sound like they had no choice in the matter and this move was forced upon them, and then the USSF said the teams passed the move overwhelmingly.

We really need to stop trying to emulate other countries and come up with our own method. But since we do copy so much, why is it that we are still pay to play?




You can't compare basketball with soccer. The depth and breadth of player pools are radically different, as are the depth and breadth of coaching qualifications in the two sports.

I'm sure there are good basketball coaches in England or Germany. But my guess is the average coach is probably not comparable to what we have here. Now soccer coaches in those countries......I have no doubt that the average 40 year old dad there knows more about the game than a significant number of HS coaches here.


Our top youth soccer coaches here are more qualified than a lot of AAU basketball coaches, yet basketball still produces far better players. Which goes back to my original point pages ago, coaching is very overrated in terms of developing stars. The reason we turn out basketball superstars isn't because of some fantastic development system or some amazing AAU coach, it is because the kid plays 6+ hours a day 7 days a week. The reason we don't turn out soccer superstars isn't because a lack of top tier coaches, it is because most top players don't practice often on their own.

Until we get inner city kids playing soccer, which I don't foresee happening any time soon if ever, we won't be a soccer power...period. Those are the kids that will put in the work needed to be a superstar, not some upper middle class kid whose parents pay thousands a year to play and he goes home and plays video games after practice. Our current USMNT coach said at the 2010 World Cup the reason we are behind is because we don't have inner city kids playing soccer. Is the change in the DA going to change that? lol. I'm assuming due to the extra four months, it is only going to get more expensive...




No doubt that our top youth soccer coaches are more qualified than a lot of AAU coaches. But I would doubt that the average HS soccer coach is as qualified as the average AAU coach. I would doubt....that the average HS soccer coach is as qualified as the average HS basketball coach.

For every Shilo Tisdale or Dom Wren, there are 10 guys out there that are either posers.... or asst football coaches collecting the $1800 stipend.


You missed my point. We have a lot of extremely good soccer coaches, and they have yet to make a difference (like I said earlier, our U17 team was embarrassingly bad for how much progress we are supposed to be making). In the end, it boils down to who is playing the sport and not who is coaching it (which is why I don't think banning HS is going to change much for our top players). The soccer players in this country simply don't work hard enough for us to be a global power. I don't care what system we change to every 5 years, it is never going to be successful until we get inner city kids participating. And when that happens, the system won't make those kids successful, the work they put in will but the system will get the credit.

Regardless of the developmental system we are using, 18 year old kids from Brazil, Argentina, England, Spain, Netherlands, etc. will have played much, much, much more soccer than ours by that point. That's the difference.

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The truly interesting side of this -- assuming it comes to pass -- will be whether the number and quality of Academy sides actually DECLINES in the wake of it.

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I've not heard what the training difference is in the Academy. Is there some magic formula they are following that is a lot different than your standard top tier boys teams? Was this training kept from the players when they were playing on the regular R3 teams? I know the ECNL on the girls side, the training is the same- just more expensive. Going to 10 months does not help unless the training is so much better than high school. There will be a lot of regrets through a players life, I think this HS decision may mean more regrets

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