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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
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world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
Quote:
I probably shouldn't have mentioned my son in that example. He would have helped....but wouldn't have changed the essence of the game.
Cobb was better 2 years ago than his R3 team was. And SCU was probably a better Academy side last year than his Academy team from 2 years ago.
Confused?
How about this....this past Fall, his R3 team scrimmaged and beat twice......his Academy team.
Could some of this improvement be traced to the arrival of a non-academy player? The Brasilian Lucas (Clover HS)? 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 17
bench
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bench
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 17 |
NSF:
High school soccer has just been given the finger - that's not marginalizing it?
US Soccer is effectively saying, "If you're not in our system, we don't have time for you." If they were able to pick the most elite soccer players 100% of the time, this idea would be brilliant. But it's not brilliant because it closes the door to unknown potential.
My point is that I think it's better to have lots of avenues of development open rather than one. It's a better way to grow the sport in the long term. The players that are in the system right now may individually improve from the 10 month season, but there is also the possibility that as these kids age out of the system there will be fewer and fewer to replace them. Make the system more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
Certainly, boys in the Academy can choose the 10 month season or high school. America is all about opportunity. But what if a fantastic player does choose high school - is he still in the running for national pool, or even DI? Should he be? Doesn't that hack away at the elite pool if players choose to leave? When that happens it can water it down as well - does some player not as good get to take his spot? US Soccer may be betting that all players will go with the 10 month season, but if there are defections, this may not work out as planned.
This system may increase individual development, but it does nothing to increase the pool, and individual development has an expiration date.
A rising tide lifts all boats. We need more players to raise the level of all players. To me, that is the biggest difference between the US and other great soccer countries. We need more and more players coming from all directions to drive the development.
Therefore, unless we want to go all the way and totally copy the European system, I don't think we will see the results we are chasing. There is no reason that America should not be an awesome soccer powerhouse. We need to think about this long term and do it in a sustainable way. I fear that this decision makes the path to elite soccer more narrow, and will in the end be self-defeating.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 586
goal
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goal
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 586 |
Evan Brandon moved back to Chicago. He is know with one of their DA teams.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 478
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 478 |
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NSF:
High school soccer has just been given the finger - that's not marginalizing it?
I don't agree with your assessment on the finger being given to HS soccer. Again, it's not like this will really have a major impact on HS soccer at all.
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US Soccer is effectively saying, "If you're not in our system, we don't have time for you." If they were able to pick the most elite soccer players 100% of the time, this idea would be brilliant. But it's not brilliant because it closes the door to unknown potential.
It would be unfair to make that judgement at this point in time. It hasn't even begun yet.
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My point is that I think it's better to have lots of avenues of development open rather than one. It's a better way to grow the sport in the long term. The players that are in the system right now may individually improve from the 10 month season, but there is also the possibility that as these kids age out of the system there will be fewer and fewer to replace them. Make the system more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
Would you mind giving a more concrete example?
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Certainly, boys in the Academy can choose the 10 month season or high school. America is all about opportunity. But what if a fantastic player does choose high school - is he still in the running for national pool, or even DI? Should he be? Doesn't that hack away at the elite pool if players choose to leave? When that happens it can water it down as well - does some player not as good get to take his spot? US Soccer may be betting that all players will go with the 10 month season, but if there are defections, this may not work out as planned.
Talent is talent. Although, it needs to be constantly pushed with coaching and playing against the highest level of competition. That is something that the DA can offer consistently that HS can't...at least not compared to the DAs.
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A rising tide lifts all boats. We need more players to raise the level of all players. To me, that is the biggest difference between the US and other great soccer countries. We need more and more players coming from all directions to drive the development.
Sounds good in theory. Only problem is that not everyone is as dedicated to achieving the next level.
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Therefore, unless we want to go all the way and totally copy the European system, I don't think we will see the results we are chasing. There is no reason that America should not be an awesome soccer powerhouse. We need to think about this long term and do it in a sustainable way. I fear that this decision makes the path to elite soccer more narrow, and will in the end be self-defeating.
Haven't given it a chance yet to say. We're not competing with American football on a global level, but we are with soccer. Therefore, we need to try and keep pushing the elite players. Think about it...did guys like Donovan and Oguchi rely on HS soccer for their development?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
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hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
Quote:
I probably shouldn't have mentioned my son in that example. He would have helped....but wouldn't have changed the essence of the game.
Cobb was better 2 years ago than his R3 team was. And SCU was probably a better Academy side last year than his Academy team from 2 years ago.
Confused?
How about this....this past Fall, his R3 team scrimmaged and beat twice......his Academy team.
Could some of this improvement be traced to the arrival of a non-academy player? The Brasilian Lucas (Clover HS)?
Lucas made a huge difference. The other boys got better too. The boys were better than Cobb at u18.....not nearly as good as Cobb at u17.
This is a HS thread. Lucas is at Clover....and Clover will be an interesting matchup for the Mauldins and Irmos and Wando's. Lucas is sick off the dribble when isolated 1 v 1.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429
hat-trick
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hat-trick
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,429 |
Quote:
NSF:
High school soccer has just been given the finger - that's not marginalizing it?
US Soccer is effectively saying, "If you're not in our system, we don't have time for you." If they were able to pick the most elite soccer players 100% of the time, this idea would be brilliant. But it's not brilliant because it closes the door to unknown potential.
My point is that I think it's better to have lots of avenues of development open rather than one. It's a better way to grow the sport in the long term. The players that are in the system right now may individually improve from the 10 month season, but there is also the possibility that as these kids age out of the system there will be fewer and fewer to replace them. Make the system more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
Certainly, boys in the Academy can choose the 10 month season or high school. America is all about opportunity. But what if a fantastic player does choose high school - is he still in the running for national pool, or even DI? Should he be? Doesn't that hack away at the elite pool if players choose to leave? When that happens it can water it down as well - does some player not as good get to take his spot? US Soccer may be betting that all players will go with the 10 month season, but if there are defections, this may not work out as planned.
This system may increase individual development, but it does nothing to increase the pool, and individual development has an expiration date.
A rising tide lifts all boats. We need more players to raise the level of all players. To me, that is the biggest difference between the US and other great soccer countries. We need more and more players coming from all directions to drive the development.
Therefore, unless we want to go all the way and totally copy the European system, I don't think we will see the results we are chasing. There is no reason that America should not be an awesome soccer powerhouse. We need to think about this long term and do it in a sustainable way. I fear that this decision makes the path to elite soccer more narrow, and will in the end be self-defeating.
Jay Jay, you are correct that USSF should be focussed on growing the pool of youth players in this country. I wholeheartedly agree with that. But this issue of 10 month Academy has nothing to do with a rising tide lifting all boats.
This issue......is solely their approach towards dealing with the top 1-2% of players, which for sake of argument is the Academy program. There are players outside of that program who are still absolutely in their sights, such as a Cole Seilor. I think they realize that while Academy can cover 85 or 90% of the top 1%....there will still be flyers.
But regardless. This issue is independent of the rising tide argument, which everyone accepts.....them too.
So I think your point, while valid, is irrelevant to the debate of 10 month Academy. If a kid is a great player outside of Academy he will still be found. But for Academy players.....this is what they feel is best suited towards challenging, developing and identifying the top tier player.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 362
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 362 |
Some of your points are valid but the kid who left CESA and then DA did so because his dad is a basket case who tried to control everything his son did- he was and is a great kid. All of the teams are pretty much statewide but the issue still exists that they all miss a great deal of talent-the mindset of many in this country is that if you are not a great physical specimen you cant play-they dont look at small kids with skill who understand the game. I would venture to say that if Messi had grown up here the DA and residency program wouldnt have given him a second look-a small guy with a hormone problem that caused his growth to be stunted, most U16s could probably challenge him physically but he knows the game and when to hold the ball, when to pass it and how to go to space-most of the guys he plays against are bigger, faster and stronger but his combination of skill and knowledge wins out just about every time. He showed that to Klinsmans countrymen yesterday. Like Michael Roth said "we arent a team of great players but together we are a great team"
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 58
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Apr 2011
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I understand your point and in highschool that is probably true. But in the DA it is not. Koty Millard is no where near 6' tall and he is on the national team. Joe Amon, Devin Lameroux, and Rex Epps are all the same. None of them are over 6" tall or weigh over 165 lbs but they are all extremely effective for their teams. Your right, Messi is the best player in the world. If he came and played against the U-16 Academy players he would probably perform decently....
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
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brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Obviously there is a place for "little" guys in soccer. That said, EVERY team needs a certain "physical presence," no matter the raw size of it. All things equal (and they seldom are), I'll take the bigger kid every time.
The higher you climb on the competitive ladder, the more technically proficient (and or physically tough) the smaller player must be to thrive.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Haven't given it a chance yet to say. We're not competing with American football on a global level, but we are with soccer. Therefore, we need to try and keep pushing the elite players. Think about it...did guys like Donovan and Oguchi rely on HS soccer for their development?
Landon Donovan statistics:
High School: Named to the 1999 Parade Magazine High School All-American Team ... Also earned a 1998 NSCAA Youth All-American selection ... Transferred to Redlands East Valley High School in 1998, where he tallied 16 goals ... Named the League Most Valuable Player in 1997, scoring 17 goals.
Oguchi Onyewu played for Sherwood High School in MD in addition to FC Potomac and ODP.
They may not have relied on HS for their development, but they did keep it as part of their respective careers, and it didn't seem to hurt their development too much.
I've got good news and bad news...
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