SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Title IX, How to, how it really went.

There are really two things they (office for Civil rights) will evaluate. The girls getting a chance to play, and how are they being treated.

The three prong test is tried, true, and court proof by now, to see if the girls get to play, or what they want.

Prong one is simple: Proportionality
To measure that you compare what %of your student population is female, to what %of you athlete population is female. They want the number to be within 1%. Really.

In Boiling Springs case, it was 47% females in the school, versus 31% of the athletes. Obviously, too far apart to be by chance, their words. In reality any real spread, is a failure. California say 5%, law suits have varied from .5 to 5%, but the 5% is an old ruling, and it is getting smaller.

Prong two: not as simple: History and continuing practice of adding teams that is demonstrably responsive to the underrepresented gender. (mouth full), but it all matters.

What they are looking for is a history of the % in Prong 1 getting closer. If over time a school can show, they have shrank that spread significantly, they would say you are okay. In Boiling Springs case, they added swimming a few years ago, but beacuse both genders got it, and thus no closure of the gap - for years. A failure on prong two.

The continuing practice piece can cause a failure of prong two as well. If the school has no stated policies or procedures for adding a sport, highly known, and publicized this can cause a failure. The OCR wants the kids/parents to know how to make it happen. Our AD, said he fields requests, no records, no approvals, no nothing. Epic fail. The kids told the OCR they wanted lacrose, and the AD said they did not have it budgeted. Another failure.

If a school adds teams it wants to add, which are not the ones asked for, by the gender being left behind, they can get a failure. So, there is three ways to fail prong 2. If you add a less expensive sport, but the girls wanted something else. Failure of the demonstrably responsive part of two.

Prong 2 was written for the early years, it is doubtful, anyone would be allowed to be declared compliant for this prong for long. If an AD gets crazy busy adds 4 or 5 teams right before (year or two) the OCR gets there, maybe, MAYBE. This is the defenition of the slippery slope, the OCR has very rarely allowed this one to be the validation of a good program, lately.


Prong 3 is basically asking are all of the underrepresented genders desires being fulfilled. A gender nuetral, non biased survey, which shows that every girls has what they want, will work. If there is not enough girls to field a team with an unsatisfied desire, then you are good. All else is a failure. Our school district never did a survey, nor asked the girls what they wanted. Fail. Epic.



For District 2 Boiling Springs, Chesnee, and their middle schools, they are 475 girls short. Due to the mess this is, the school will add, say 20 teams over the next 5-10 years across the 5 schools. Or until, the girls say they want no more. Prong 2 is dead to them now, or finally alive. Think about it.

Treatment coming later~

Clark stepping down as AD
http://forum.palmettofootballtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21045

The schools superintendent wrote this discrimination is a matter of perspective. He said they scheduled the girls first because he was worried about a cold winters night and the girls having to come home last.

He is trying to white wash systematic,system wide discrimination. What a joke, of a human being. They are 500 girls short, WTF.

Dr. Mercer, your time ended with the buggy whip.

Imagine last night at the school board meeting in Boiling Springs. The lawyer, who had been telling Boiling Springs they are okay (Title IX), trys to explain how these are not bad violations. How this is important, but... How they are being proactive, but... What this is going to mean but... How the early game times are good for the girls grades... I guess the do not care about the boys grades.

It cracked me up.

One piece of the treatment laundry list did bite Boiling Springs and all their schools.

The boys always get the late time slot for games. Every school, every sport, every game, when girls play with boys they go first.

This rose to the point of being enough in and of itself to be deemed denying girls equal treatment, and a civil rights vioaltion. Both pieces were bad enough from what I gather to stand alone, times and athletic proportionality.

Simply documenting this, through copies of schedules, and counting the number of participants - for a claim of failing to give/offer equitable sporting opportunites, will most likely sink any school or districts Title IX compliance. One hour, a computer, and a stamp...

Locker rooms were not deemed, an issue. Boys 246, girls 76, in the new Aux. Gym. As of now the softball team does not have a locker room, I assume the boys practicing soccer where they do not have them, off set. The 76 are not enough for the springs sports we have, the girls are sharing some, already.

What happens when they add Lacrosse? 40 more girls in an overcrowded locker room

probably turns into an issue.

Maybe instead of 80K for the ex AD to coach Football they should take some of that money and build some new lockers

Publicity as a factor of treatment. Chico high school was caught for Band and Cheer spending most 90% of their time supporting boys. Boiling Springs, had the same exact complaint, the review team did not mention it in the letter of findings. An appeal was put in to revisit this issue.

The Jumbotrons that Byrnes has and Dorman is getting is an obvious issue. Folks would say they are not big deal. $300,000 to $500,000, no big deal?!?!? Really?

Travel per diem, etc. Usually nothing to worry about.
Byrnes has actually flown their boys to some of those out of state games. How many females at Byrnes have had the same?

Coaching availibility and pay. Largest factor do you have coaches for the girls, and do the girls believe they are as good as the male coaches. Our girls thought so... no issue.

Coaches pay you would figure would be an easy thing. At Boiling Springs they threw out the top two paid football coaches. Which made the males coaches salary be the same as the girls. No issue.

A question is in for the $400,000 staff at a local school. $200,000 got a pretty good finish, for Boiling Springs. Since we have an arms race for coaches, a question is, how high is to high to exclude. No response yet.

For a great read, look up and down load (free) from the NCAA, EQUITY and TTILE IX in Intercollegiate Athletics, A practical guide 2012.

Yes, it is applicable to High Schools, except schoarships, recruiting dollars, tutoring... It is a very complete guide.

A Petition - is a very powerful tool for those of you who want to add a female program at your local school or district. (I should have done one of these)

What it does is document the unfullfilled desire of the underrepresented females. It leads to an almost automatic failure of prong three, for the district or school. (if they do not add the sport, if they do - GREAT)

If you want to add a sport get signatures, keep copies, and pass other copies to the AD, Title IX co ordinator for the district, and whomever else you feel needs to get one.

If you are trying to add an obscure sport, it will be, the correct first step. You would have to then prove they have someone, or a place to play. Since the SCHSL will let a team play almost anyone during the regular season, that makes it a little easier. (read you can play college freshman teams, textile teams, and thus club teams)

I will stop this, call it a blog, now. (sure some of you are glad)

If you wish to discuss your local district, PM me. I will work across email to try and help get you going in the right direction. I have contacts we can bring to bear as well.

One point I left out,

You do not have to work in the district or school, or have a child there to lodge a complaint with the OCR.


If you have a good case for discrimination, there are folks out there who will do it, so you will not get blowback. Boots on the ground are more than likely going to know the info on discrimination, but it is possible they may get some unwanted attention.

There has been landmark cases on retaliation, Jackson the basketball coach in Alabama, the most famous, in case you want to do it yourself.

What is the fianl solution? If I were the AD, I would do a tiered program. Raising, girls soccer and maybe another sport to the same status as Football.

Run it the same way, 7th and 8th grade teams. This makes bus expenses optimum, 44 players per trip. Play 7th and 8th back to back, refs come for two short matches. As things go add a C - Team. Mirror image the football team! Pay the head soccer coach, real money.

On the treatment side of things, have a pep band, some spirit support - with a paid director like cheer has, everything. Game day flyer football quality, to cover all spring sports, main focus soccer. (just like football) Have a week long pep event, like homecoming. You take all bias off the table, you add huge numbers at a minimum cost, do not have to build any fields. Locker rooms may be an issue, of wait, they get the football lockers in the Spring, so that's not an issue either.

Kill it in one shot. Then SC will produce D1 players in soccer just like we do in the wierd shaped football. (please do not argue this alone, will not, but long term pressure etc. more kids to club to be able to play, and so on, will)

One can dream... It would be legal, too.

In our location, you can prove you are meeting the desires of the girls without a survey. Looking at local soccer interest, there are 9 organizations, at 17 locations offering soccer in Spartanburg. Our neighboring county has particiaption at every middle school. You could easily draw a conclusion, that would stand up to review, that soccer is what the girls want.

In reality, football is already in a tiered program. The only issue it is by itself, with no balance program from the girls side.

Not slamming, just saying it out load.

IiwIs.......and the money for funding all of this come from where?

How about this? A quote from my Dad about living life: "The Main thing in life is to always keep the Main thing, the Main thing."

I would argue that society has its priorities out of whack and that education tax dollars at the K-12 and college levels would be far better spent on improving academics and making college affordable for all kids, without taking on debt the size of a mortgage.

The Main thing concerning education is education. Eliminate school and collegiate sports and use the money to improve education and education affordability.

Sorry.

Same place they get $100,000 for a head football coaches salary, $200,000 to $400,000 worth of football salaries for a single school. Valdosta was paying $100,000 15 years ago, nothing new there. Forgot this, or $320,000 for a jumbotron.

The ideal education model if that is what you want to discuss, is what the Japanese kids use to do. Go to school, go to cram school, work like hell, to get in University, or college. I do not see us doing that. They have began to get away from it as well.

In mine I wrote "I can dream". "IF I were the AD", that is what I would do. I qualified my statements, well enough I believe.

A subtle observation, Big Daddy - Hat Trick 1408 posts, how many on soccer, or sports, how many on education? Just keeping it real.

I am not making absolute statements, not really. Just holding a dialog open for a while, nothing bad comes from that, I do not think.

"A subtle observation, Big Daddy - Hat Trick 1408 posts, how many on soccer, or sports, how many on education? Just keeping it real."

This is a soccer forum. My posts are usually about soccer.

However when the topic veers onto the fringes of politics I'll say my piece. I think the stated facts in your first sentence in the above post is absurd and reflects the twisted reality that certain segments in America have become. We bring sports into school and church into school and partisan politics into school.

I totally disagree that the stereotypical Japanese system, whatever that might be, is the "ideal" system of education. Memorization and repetition don't teach critical thinking or problem solving skills. Nor do they nurture creativity. I'm not criticizing the Japanese. if it works for them, awesome.

Again, take your hundreds of thousands of dollars spend on HS football and the tens of millions spent on collegiate football and instead of trying to impose "fairness" by spending more on non-sports such as a pep band or cheerleaders and calling them sports.....instead, hire more and better teachers and pay them better. Make sure ALL kids have access to the latest in technology as well as the ancient classics.

And kids shouldn't have to borrow tens of thousands of dollars to go to USC for 4 years while the football coach makes $3-4m per year and 85 kids go to school for free.

No argument from me on wishing things were better. I agree.

You have a "wrong", you want to discuss. Fine.

As far as paying teachers more, and getting better ones who could argue? As far as the coaching pay, versus tuition, I have not a clue how to fix it, but can see your issue, no doubt.

Please understand, this whole thing started 6 years ago when a school refused to add one girls soccer team, when they cut 30 kids a year. While they maintained a no cut policy for the boys footballl program (where they spare no expense), and a c team for basketball. No C teams for girls, period. Understand I was trying to place this topic in the right place, I think have.

Sorry its political nature is there no matter how I write it, even though I just tried to chronical it. Not trying to argue at ALL. Really.

And yes, I am a republican, and a feminist. Strange huh!?!
That bit was for humor, nothing else.

Please understand, I am NOT arguing, there are MANY things more important, than this topic. To me, my opinion only, it is more important than many we discuss on here.

Thanks if you want to yell at me, PM me, I can take it.

From what I understand, the district is going to survey every girl when they register...

The reality is, as long as you have football -- and wildly overpay for its coaches -- you will have a fundamental imbalance in expenditure BY GENDER in high school sports. Unlike college sports, where you can (somewhat) address fairness/opportunity issues through grants-in-aid, it's much tougher to do at the high school level.
The way to begin is by assuring that boys' and girls' programs in similar sports have equal budgets and access to resources: i.e., boys' and girls' soccer, basketball, baseball/softball, lacrosse, swimming, track and field, cross country, etc. Address overall inequity by funding traditionally "girls" sports -- such as volleyball and cheerleading -- at levels "comparable" to other sports, on as per participant basis.
As far as football is concerned, take a long, hard look at trimming back bloated coaching staffs and salaries, and restricting roster sizes to more reasonable numbers.
There is absolutely no reason to pay a football coach six figures -- not when most would do the job for less. Similarly,there's absolutely no reason to carry more than 100 kids on varsity and jayvee football combined. Just as there is absolutely no reason for Wando to carry 30-plus on its varsity soccer roster,
By the way, I'd have absolutely no problem eliminating ALL extracurricular activities from American public schools, but as there is no way this will happen, I simply advocate rational and fair expenditure and allotment of resources. The days of every Driver Ed teacher being a football assistant must end, just as hiring a football assistant to fill EVERY PE opening must end.

It is sad, but 4 of the 12 NWLC (National women's Law Center) cases filed Dec, 2010 have volunteer agreements published. Their average gap of athletic participation is between 11-14%, Boiling Springs is 19%. Poor ole' dawg.

These four schools have already added sports and have several ready to go this year.

Boiling Springs seems to be dragging their FEET, compared to schools who are already adding sports.

Like I said they will survey, Aug 7th. When they get a sport as a request, not offered in our "region", they will say they have no body to play. Region means geographical region as well, the district will try to play this "we have nobody to play" card, next.

Wait and see...

So, now we know why they call it BSHS.

Oh no you didn't?!?!?

Heard there was an activist group going to do a mass OCR filing on SC High schools, like they have in Washington, Oregan,Calif, and Idaho.

Meet with Dorman big wigs today. They are adding middle school soccer, at their schools. Looking at lacrosse a few years after.

Poor ole' Dawg never can get ahead. I have been after my guys for 5-6 years to add middle school soccer, for a tactical advantage. [censored] it, [censored] it, [censored] it.

One upside when they survey and get a soccer request, they will not be able to say, "We do not have anybody to play."

Well done Dorman.

They said Carlos was coming back to help, and they were allowing the coaches a chance to work with the elem. school kids. If Joe organizes this right, they will be...

I have begged my district for years, why must we always play catch up?

Spartanburg Dist 7, Spartanburg High school/middle schools, Highly probable to add middle school soccer and other sports, next year, Per RW Booker Superintendent.

I went to the beach, and walked and walked and walked, and thought... I am kind of glad, the large AAAA schools are finally thinking the right way, however.

Every school in Greenville county has a more complete offering at the middle school level. Very balanced.

Union county has a superior, more complete offering than Spartanburg.

Our Tiny neighbor to the North, A/AA Polk County North Carolina has had middle school soccer for a decade, and softball, and cross country and tennis.

So, three of the counties that border Spartanburg, all smaller schools offering MORE.

I think now, we should still be upset they are taking this long. I will get back on the pressure side of this.

Studying my info, I found something interesting.

Current middle school offering in Peachtree middle school conference, that is most of Spartanburg. 11 middle schools

Two football teams, volleyball, boys and girls basketball, and wrestling.

Our northern neighbors, Rutherford, Cleveland, and Polk which have higher unemployment (just a little), and lower per capita income (just a little), afford their kids,

One football team, volleyball, boys and girls basketball, wrestling, golf coed, track boys and girls, cross country boys and girls, soccer boys and girls, softball and baseball, tennis coed.

I know these are NC schools, I just have to wonder why they offer so much? or why we offer so little?

Okay, I have been talking in the dark it seems... What do you guys think about all of this?

I find it very interesting and appreciate you informing the rest of us about this measure. I've always wondered how some districts find it part of the educational experience to offer more in the form of extracurricular activities - arts, band, athletics, etc. - whereas some districts do very little. Middle school sports are invaluable IMO and we should do all that we can to get kids involved. This is traditionally the age at which kids become disinterested in school and often turn to 'uglier' things in life.

I used our northern neighbors as a compare because they are the state that is most like SC. Median Household income for example is SC $41,709, NC $43,753 - real close. Demographics are very close.

Some other comparison data not so much, first from America's Health Rankings - United Health Foundation SC ranks 45th overall as a state, 45th for rate of Diabetes, and 47th for obesity. NC Ranks 32 overall, 36th for rate of diabetes, and 30th for obesity.

Annie E. Casey Foundation rates kids well being over the US. SC ranks 43rd, NC 34th.

NC however ranks much worse on public funding on health care, than SC. They spend a third less, than SC per person.

I wonder how this comes to be?

Did you see how the IQ test now have the ladies beating the Gents? Reason given, was them getting out in the world and getting chances to do the same stuff we do.

I wonder if this is all connected?

If we get our daughters and our sons on the field, and out of their chairs, and their thumbs off controllers, I think we will like the results.

There is a correlation between participation, participation gap female to male, and state health and well being rankings.

Not a political message, at all. Just a sports fan's, kids fan's message. For your considerations only.

This is why I was so hard on my district, after I figured out they would do nothing, to increase opportunities. Things are still churning at the state level, trying to get those guys to buy in.

In '08, I did a research paper based on Title IX for a graduate course I was taking at the time. Yes, I picked a topic that was relevant to what I do!

I came across some interesting findings in my research, including the following:

An OppenheimerFunds survey of 401 "Highly Successful American Women" showed that 82% of the women polled played sports in junior high, high school, and/or college. They stated that team activities helped them learn to succeed in a competitive work environment.

Surveys have shown that only 17% of women across all earning levels describe themselves as "athletic," but 41% of women in the higher income brackets--$75,000 and more--describe themselves as "athletic."

A study by the University of Virginia found that 80% of female leaders in Fortune 500 companies participated in school sports.

Do these statistics prove that participating in school sports will make girls successful? No.

Do they provide enough evidence of a correlation to support the idea that athleticism and participation in team sports in school provide an advantage to women as they enter the career world? I'd say so.

Does providing that advantage for our young people mean that it's an area worth our schools' investment?

I'd say so.

Well said! It is easy to see the advantages and future success my daughter's teammates have and will have.

District 5 in Spartanburg (Byrnes), will be surveying kids this year, for additions next year. Hopefully, we can get Spartanburg County athletics in this Century.

Let's see Football we dominate the state, and do well nationally... middle school programs - check, good coaches - check, a system - check.

Hopefully, we can get this mojo in other sports as well.

Now the trick is to make sure the schools use a good survey.

Good meaning one that asks the open ended question, and one that has reliability and validity protocol. Hopefully the schools will set up resurvey procedures and plans. A system, and not a one time, slam bam thank you ladies, deal.

Update on things, Title IX and SC.

A complaint was lodged versus the SCDOE for not having a Title IX coordinator, or their organization doing its due diligance. The OCR Complaint is 11-12-4040.


Nearly a dozen(I was way off, many more than a dozen) counties and high schools have been turned into the OCR for a review,using their own data as the reason for the review, on Sept 6. The model for the complaints was the NWLC format that was successful across the U.S. I do not think it has been assigned a complaint number as of yet. You can search NWLC Title IX Cases and see how those have went, hopefully SC cases will go as well or better.

The count I have of schools that have been electronically filled against stands near 150.

Deadlines are coming up on District 2 (Boiling Springs, Chesnee High school and their middle schools).

First up - "... the district will by December 21, 2012, for each school, conduct an objective assesment to determine the athletic interests and abilities..."

I was worried about them cheating and making the numbers match what they want, but the OCR is pretty tough on this.

"Copies of all surveys referenced in subsection II.D.1 and the results of those surveys, including a complete description of the methodology used to conduct the survey, including how the survey was distributed , the number of surveys distributed and the number of responses, the grade levels of students who recieved the surveys, all follow-up to the initial distribution of the survey, the names and contact information for the individuals who evaluated the respones to the surveys, and copies of all notes and other documentation compiled during the review of the surveys;"

Still worried about the butchers thumb on the scale.

Charter buses to first round of football playoffs... other sports not afforded same. Got to love the thought processes of some folks.

I have a question for the board. How does your school repair damage created season to season on practice and game fields? Our school runs the football team and girls soccer team on the same practice field. They repair it in the summer, then the boys trash it. The girls have to deal with what is left, holes, damaged areas etc. They never cut the grass until the week before the football pre season. So, our girls have rubbish for a practice field.

How does your school maintain such playing surfaces? Just looking for ideas to feed the school. Does your school overseed, have multiple fields, have turf? Or do you deal with the same mess?

come on throw me a bone here

Life is not fair. It never will be

Not worried about if it is fair or not. Just looking for an idea of how we can improve the maintence of the field.

do a bunch of the teams have a seperate field, so the situation does not exist

or do they do season to season maintence.... sand, overseed, sod, whatever they are doing. Heard some folks actually rolled the field with a steam roller type deal, just smaller.

The girls get the fuzzy end of the lollipop many times, so you are right life is not fair. Does that mean we should sit by watching the situation, or should we try to make it better.

Clark County, Nevada, adding freshman soccer, and flag football to partly correct negitive Title IX findings. In 2010 the National Women's Law Center turned Clark County in as part of their 12 complaints, nation wide, one per OCR district.

Some folks are skeptical about the flag football part of this. One school had 125 girls try out for the 15 roster spots avaialable at that school.

District 2, Boiling Springs, has 17 days to do their survey, for athletic interest, per their Resolution Agreement.

Come on Santa, all I want is, for the girls to ask for soccer at all the schools... check the box by soccer!

Fun Fact:

Per the resolution agreement, District 2 has until Dec 21st of this year to survey the girls for their athletic interest.
(...then the District will, by December 21, 2012, for each such school, conduct an objective assessment to determine the athletic interests and abilities of girls...)

Do you think Mr. Mercer (District Superintendent) was smart enough to set that date, to match the end of the world? (Mayan Calendar prediction)

He will do anything he can, I know that! I think this was dumb luck, or maybe not.

Both deadlines came and went with no action.

You kind of figured the Mayan thing was silly, but you would hope the school district would follow thru. It was a mutually agreed upon resolution agreement. (Feds, and District 2)

Justice delayed is justice denied.

You must be out of the loop, per my conversation with our AD Boiling Springs will field Middle School Soccer in Spring of 2013. We have already agreed to schedule them this spring.

Merry Christmas... if that is the truth. I hope you are right DormanSoccer.

You ever hope you were wrong? We have been begging them since 2006.

And yes, they try to keep me out of the loop... they do not like me.

It is true, will send you the updated schedule in January. We are very lucky to have the wonderful leadership of Dr. Owings and Mr. Harrell who keep us in the loop. Great opportunities for girls in Spartanburg County as I understand Spartanburg and Byrnes will join us in 2014. Another avenue for girls who can not afford/want to make the commitment to club soccer. I admire your fight to create more opportunities for girls to play the wonderful game of soccer. Merry Christmas!

Thanks for the kind words. Great outcome,.., have taken some lumps for it, but no big deal.

Are you going to have an 7th grade team, and an 8th grade team or a combo team per school? I have been pushing for the two teams per school to copy the football model.

DormanSoccer the Title IX guys I know are asking are the schools adding girls and guys teams or just girls?

Just found out the Palmetto State Gender Institute is meeting at Oakland Elementry school, in Spartanburg District 2. Irony anyone?

The ACLU is suing a couple of states right now for single sex eduaction classes, and SC is rushing to that model?!?!? On top of that they are holding the classes at the School District that failed to pass one of the few Title IX audits ever in SC.

DormanSoccer you are right. We will be fielding one team instead of two or 4. We are backing into it, in true District 2 fashion.

I got two teams by my lonesome when I did it a few years back. No publicity at either middle school, just the spare folks trying out for JV. Oh well, better than nothing at this point.

If they would let me get involved, there would be...

Just reviewed some info from another district in Spartanburg. The info was recieved from a FOIA request.

Middle schools were very similar to District 2. Over 100 more male athletes per school, than females. (plenty of sports could be added to close or eliminate that gap)

The high school was a mirror to District 2, except it has a C team for softball, and baseball, we have neither. The real athletic gap is almost an exact match for BSHS. I feel certain an OCR review would come to the same answer of a failure to give girls a fair chance on participation. Lacrosse is at most schools in the region, so they could easily field this sport.

The warm up game status is the same for the girls basketball program.

The most obvious treatment issue is football versus everyone else. The players get cleats (seriously) from the program. I have not seen that at other locations, kind of a wierd. Also the football program gets much more travel, publicity, and support. They did not call BSHS on the treatment side but this is so, much more of a differnce it could be called. IMHO it should be a failure.

On the support of this program, they get more in the off season than any sport I see has in season. Camps, drill practices, travel, workout sessions, positional work/camps, etc.

Note I do not mind the boys getting this, just the girls not getting same. SC is at the very bottom of equity in the area. It seems this group is really looking into some of these deltas. I hope they do some good work. My only pause,..., why were they not looking and doing before?

Saw this on another site - http://forum.palmettofootballtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29461&start=40 - a real mess up in Spartanburg!

Union county, now under investigation... for the same stuff. A mad aunt, turned the group in. The article is in the Spartanburg Hearld Journal, on line now. written by the associated press.

Just on update on the state of things.

On July 5th, Boiling Springs announced hiring Dan Minkin, as their "boys" lacrosse coach. Really? You just failed a Title IX compliance audit, and your starting a boys program, when your 600 girls short. Really?

Oh my..

http://preps.goupstate.com/news/article/...lacrosse-coach/