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The idea that a high school athletics director and/or football coach makes this kind of money tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about educational AND athletic priorities in our state.
What this fails to account for is the ridiculous number of overgrown adolescents hired into make-work teacher/instructor jobs to support football as assistant coaches. For years, a WILDLY disproportionate number of PE and Driver Ed jobs went to assistant coaches. Arguably worse: the number who walk into more demanding academic slots without the genuine chops or willingness to do the job IN THE CLASSROOM.
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Something near and dear to my heart as a long time Senior Women's Administrator is the discussion of high school athletics and salaries. Folks, take a look at your area and please provide some feedback!
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This is a very misleading story, if you follow old gal's link in her post and enter coach, head coach or football coach you will not get any results. The supplement for coaching is not listed. Now lets educate some of you on how teachers are paid.
1. years of teaching experience.
2. level of education
3. National Board teacher
4. extra curricular activities
5. Dept head
6. Coaching supplement -Increases with number of years experience.
Those coaches who are listed at the top of the pay scale have 25 to 35 years teaching experience,have a master degree,they get a supplement for AD and Head Football coach. The bulk of their salary is for number one and 2. You can find teachers who are making 65-75K just for teaching! It is a shame the paper is just giving part of the story. Find out how much they are paid for coach only then write the story! That would not sale many papers.
Old Gal , provide a supplement scale for your district please so we can see what the coaches in your area are paid!
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Well, I do know that assistant football coaches are making $4000-$5000 for their supplements as 'assistants' whereas head coaches of baseball, softball, soccer, etc. are making $2000. I don't think an assistant football coach should garner twice the salary of a head coach. Particularly at schools where those sports are emphasized.
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maybe it should list what they teach also, altho that might be a whole nuther topic..
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Hatch, How many hours do you think a soccer coach spends at the school on Saturday and Sunday game planning for the next week? How many hours watching film, breaking down the previous game and then breaking down the 3 to 5 films of the team you are getting ready to play? How many script cards does he have to make, call sheets, and adjustments. I coach both and I promise you I don't have to spend as much tiume to get ready for the next game. Heck the only film I watch is my team. Soccer coaches dont trade game film. Most of the soccer coaches in the state coach club and HS at the same time, cant do that if you are working 70 hours a week. 4a football is a big time commitment, you work all the time. I only see my family on Sunday Morning and Saturday afternoon. I dont come home on Thursday or Friday until late and then up and gone with the sun on Saturday. Now before you try to bash my commitment to soccer , I promise I work just as hard , but soccer simply does not require as much time due to the nature of the game.
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Quote:
Hatch, How many hours do you think a soccer coach spends at the school on Saturday and Sunday game planning for the next week? How many hours watching film, breaking down the previous game and then breaking down the 3 to 5 films of the team you are getting ready to play? How many script cards does he have to make, call sheets, and adjustments. I coach both and I promise you I don't have to spend as much tiume to get ready for the next game. Heck the only film I watch is my team. Soccer coaches dont trade game film. Most of the soccer coaches in the state coach club and HS at the same time, cant do that if you are working 70 hours a week. 4a football is a big time commitment, you work all the time. I only see my family on Sunday Morning and Saturday afternoon. I dont come home on Thursday or Friday until late and then up and gone with the sun on Saturday. Now before you try to bash my commitment to soccer , I promise I work just as hard , but soccer simply does not require as much time due to the nature of the game.
I'm not Hatch, but Darlington County didn't submit their data and I am retired.
Sorry, Coach, but I know your soccer program has been down for a couple of years and your football program has always struggled since the school was formed. Do you really think a losing football team's coaches should make more money based on "coaching years"? Come on, a loser is a loser and a winner is a winner.
West Ashley, whether it was Middleton or St. Andrews, has been the definition of a loser in the Charleston area for years unless it was girls soccer. I guess y'all always "Thank Goodness" for Colleton County?
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Coach J...if you follow Old Gal's link, you can search by district and school to find a list of coaches that is broken down by position (academic and athletic), base pay, and total supplements. Still...
Old Gal,
Once again, you've gone way off-topic just for an opportunity to bash West Ashley--first in putting down the accomplishments of a very deserving young player, and now insulting an entire program based on...exactly how does that fit into the discussion we were having?
I didn't see anything in Coach J's post you quoted about comparing winning coaches' salaries to losing ones, based on "coaching years." He did mention in a previous post that coaching supplements were in part based on years of experience, but that was simply an explanation of how things are calculated--based on fact. I saw him as, having experience in both worlds, justifying the difference in soccer pay and football pay by citing the difference in number of hours spent in preparation for each.
I'm not sure what you lost in West Ashley that they wouldn't give you back, but your consistent random digressions into WA-bashing are losing you any semblance of credibility. Unless, of course, you really believe that an illogical leap of focus should have more credibility than a logical progression of topic.
Come on, adult discussion is adult discussion, and childish insults are childish insults.
I'll let you figure out who you can "thank goodness" for. I can't come up with anyone at the moment.
I've got good news and bad news...
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I do not want anything to do with bashing, but I would like to make a point. Many coaches earn their pay just like Coach J describes... bless all of those folks-thanks for what you do. The vast majority make their pay that way. However, Some like Freddie Brown, make $100,000 just to be the head football coach. Some like Bentley at Byrnes makes $100,000 on a made up job, so he could come back to Byrnes, to be the offensive coordinator. OMG Some like Bruce Clark at Boiling Springs got paid as if he had a Phd, according to the scale on the Dist 2 website, but he never taught a class until this year. He does not have a Phd. Now he teaches street law, whatever that is. Not to meniton monies that went to Bruce from the booster club. Dist 2 had the "brass ones" to even ask other coaches to volunteer for free. What a bunch of junk. These my friends are the real issues. Three real examples, in just one county. 
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old gal , as you stated you are "a long time Senior Women's Administrator" How can you as a professional state that winning and losing should determine pay? Really ? So your schools failure rate should determine how much each teacher is paid, regardless of education level, time commitment and the work ethic and type of students in the classroom? Your pay should only increase if your schools meet No Child left behind standards each year and show improvement? So if you AYP drops or does not improve your pay should drop too?
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A couple of realities here:
1) Football rules the roost at most SC high schools.
2) To keep (overpay) football coaches, many schools routinely allowed them to double-dip as ADs. My question is: If FB coaches are putting in so many hours, how can they effectively serve all students and sports, in both genders, as ADs? Answer: They generally can't, and often don't.
3) I have been "inside" one Class AAAA athletics program where the FB coach/AD, also listed as an "Instructor", instructs exactly nothing. (But makes high $90s.)
4) Regarding WAHS, the boys' basketball and volleyball teams (among others) have been prominent statewide on and off for years. To state otherwise is ignorant.
5) The FB/soccer time comparison is irrelevant. Yes, top FB coaches give a bunch of time IN SEASON. So do top soccer coaches, by the way. But the "club" crack is ridiculous. Why do you think so many soccer coaches also work for clubs? Because it's one way to identify and develop high school players. Which is to say, there is no true off-season in soccer. Unlike FB, where many coaches collect ADDITIONAL stipends for mindlessly babysitting their schools' jayvee basketball teams, while volunteers do the real teaching and coaching.
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Backscreen , I have not idea what your experiences are, I don't want to get on her an argue back and forth with you or the rest of the world. All I can tell you is that football is year round just like all sports. They have weight training, spring practice , and passing league runs all summer, as well as running the weight room thru out the entire summer.
Soccer coaches are not doing this, they send there kids off to play club, and some even work camps to make money. I don't know any that are running the weight room 5 days a week and have games every week.
So again unless you are actually coaching football or basketball or wrestling etc is hard for me to give your response credibility.
Are there things that could be better, absolutely. But that could be said for all sports and programs. We have a lot of good people who work hard at their chosen sport. I just wanted to shed some light on what football coaches are doing. That is all nothing more.
Regards,
Coach J
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Coach: To me, this isn't about football vs. soccer, or any sport. It's about allocation of increasingly scarce funds to wildly overpay coaches. I appreciate as much as anyone the commitment it takes to teach and coach. I have seen the effort SOME coaches across all sports (in addition to those poor, overworked FB coaches) put into their position. And I commend them.
But the idea that you have a handful of "head" coaches making over $100k a year to drive their own personal Gators and be shadow ADs, nominal instructors, and coaches is laughable. Surrounding them with gigantic (paid) staffs compounds the felony. The idea that many of those assistants "teach" make-work classes and pass out grades like candy is incomprehensible. And defending that expenditure of money is intellectually bankrupt.
One final thought. I know a lot of people in various professions FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN FOOTBALL COACHING, who routinely work 60-70-hour weeks, year-round, for substantially less money.
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Quote:
Hatch, How many hours do you think a soccer coach spends at the school on Saturday and Sunday game planning for the next week? How many hours watching film, breaking down the previous game and then breaking down the 3 to 5 films of the team you are getting ready to play? How many script cards does he have to make, call sheets, and adjustments. I coach both and I promise you I don't have to spend as much tiume to get ready for the next game. Heck the only film I watch is my team. Soccer coaches dont trade game film. Most of the soccer coaches in the state coach club and HS at the same time, cant do that if you are working 70 hours a week. 4a football is a big time commitment, you work all the time. I only see my family on Sunday Morning and Saturday afternoon. I dont come home on Thursday or Friday until late and then up and gone with the sun on Saturday. Now before you try to bash my commitment to soccer , I promise I work just as hard , but soccer simply does not require as much time due to the nature of the game.
Lets see, where to begin. First, soccer coaches do trade film on other teams, and the good coaches in the state sit down, watch them and come up with a game plan from the film and the assistants that went to a game or two on their own.
Second, a head coach is a head coach. Here in Illinois, at least in school districts where I live, the head football coach does not make any more than a head coach of a team with a similiar length season. Why? Because they don't deserve any more than another head coach.
Third, do you really think that football is going to be around as it is today with all of the concussion issues they are having? I think not...the IHSA is passing some very stringent requirements that is going to have some large impacts on football as a whole. You also have a ton of parents that are not too inclined to let their children play a sport that has repeated head injuries that could cause massive problems later in life.
I get so sick and tired of football coaches thinking they are the end all be all of sports. We should use education systems to do what they were meant to do years ago and do away with sports associated with school. This is where the community should set up community sports programs if they are that important. Don't waste my tax dollars on programs that don't do squat for the betterment of society.
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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James you live out of state so your experience does not translate well to SC. Question in IL do Football coaches get fired and lose there job if they have a few losing seasons? How many people come to watch a HS football game in IL? How many Football coaches does you school have on staff? Football will not end but I think you will see club football in the near future. But we were talking about salary's. I was just shedding some light on how we are paid as teachers and coaches. When the amount of money and the difference in pay was brought up I simply again shared my experience. Now I have been teaching for 21 years, have 21 years coaching, I get 60k a year to coach soccer , right? I mean I am the head coach and I make that amount , so by the news paper standard I am making 60k to coach soccer. Let's call the news and report that. Don't expect a call back though, soccer is not going to sell papers, but football in the south sure does. 
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Coach, AGAIN you miss important points. Many FB coach/ADs in our state -- across enrollments -- DON'T teach. And many of them are nothing more than nominal ADs to supplement their salaries. (Thankfully, that is slowly changing, as more schools are separating the two positions IN RECOGNITION OF the problem.)
Your point about attendance, selling newspapers, generating revenue, etc., is relevant, as far as it goes. But isn't it amazing how so many of those football-crazy states lag behind their peers nationwide in public school student-body academic performance?
The 6-figure salary of a FB coach/AD at a mediocre academic institution is a legitimate concern for anyone who pays taxes.
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BS17, I stated I would like to see all AD's positions move to administrative with no coaching at all Beaufort county has done this as well as Cane bay. Now would you feel the same way if the Track coach or Basketball coach ETC were the AD,or does it just bother you that it is the football coach? Wando's AD does not coach or teach and has a Administrative Asst. Is that a problem? He receives a teaching salary but does not coach. Next question,how do you feel about the teacher who gets and extra planning period each day, about 1 hour and 30 min extra free time , and they are not a coach. What for, yearbook, teacher cadet, department head, etc IF I am AD and head coach, How much non teaching time should I get? How many sports does a 4A high school have and how much administrative work is required for each sport? I am asking these questions just to play the other side, You seem very bothered by this. Also what other teaching/coaching job can you get fired from for losing games,or losing too many games? As long as my teams behave and I run a good program , wins and losses will not get me fired as head coach, but I can keep my teaching job regardless. Head FB coach does not have that same job security. Not only do they lose coaching job but also lose teaching job as well. Is that ok with you? I would love to see this discussion moved to the 4a football board on Palmetofootballtalk and see what would be said there. I just find this a very interesting discussion on a soccer board. So I am have fun talking about. If we want everyone to be treated the same then that means the coaches of other sports should be fired for losing as well.
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Quote:
If we want everyone to be treated the same then that means the coaches of other sports should be fired for losing as well.
Devil's advocate--you know it's one of my favorite games.
You COULD make the following argument:
Football is unquestionably the top revenue-producing sport at the majority of high schools, as well as being the "flagship" sport in the public view of the community. Football games potentially have the highest attendance rate of any high school sport, and therefore have the potential to keep the greatest number of community members connected to and invested in the school. Football revenue not only can be used to support the other sports within the athletic department, but it can also be used to enhance the facilities, appearance, capital improvements, and overall environment of the school.
Since it is apparent that attendance (generating revenue) and image (generating community support) are in a large part dependent on a program's success or failure, it stands to reason that a sport with far-reaching effects of its success or failure has a greater need to win, for the greater good of the school, while another sport whose record has much less impact on the overall success of the school is under much less pressure to win, because the CONSEQUENCES of losing are more bearable.
So, while idealistically we would certainly like to have everyone treated the same, from a practical, realistic point of view, the sports whose success have the greatest impact on the overall good should, by necessity, be held to a higher standard of success in terms of the wins and losses that in turn produce (or fail to produce) the desired and needed benefits of the program.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Coach: A couple of points here. 1) I absolutely WOULD feel the same way about other dual coach/AD slots, if the point of the sham was to inflate the coach's salary by giving him a job/title he/she doesn't REALLY do. 2) As far as I know, the "Wando AD" is still an assistant FB coach. He stepped back from the head FB coaching job for a number of reasons, some (but not all) of which he explained to me. 3) If a coach is a legitimate teacher, he/she may be relieved of coaching duties but retain a teaching slot. It happens all the time. 4) I'm of the opinion that ALL teachers should have at least 1 "planning" block, whether they are working an extracurricular gig or not. That MANY teachers are wildly overworked implies the need for better, more equitable allocation of resources, don't you think? Hence, the original discussion. 5) The concept of "revenue" sports and their coaches somehow justifying higher salaries may work at the college level, where TV revenue, sponsorship, and alumni giving cover a lot of the costs, but not in the public school environment. And by the way, it doesn't work particularly well at the vast majority of colleges/universities, where athletics is a money-loser, but the tail STILL wags the dog.
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By the way, and for the record, I support the concept of interscholastic athletics and other extra-curricular activities, WHEN DONE RIGHT. But when the head FB coach supplements his salary with an in-name-only administrative title; when the paid staff fills an entire row of the team picture; when many of them are locking down teaching slots that arguably should go to better qualified, more committed TEACHERS, as opposed to aspiring coaches ...
That isn't my idea of "done right."
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While we're at it ... why do Lexington & Richland Counties need multiple school districts? ... Greenville seems to do fine with one big one as does Horry and Charleston Counties ... I guess it's because we need more Superintendents, Asst. Superintendents, and clerical workers at the district office to justify $100,000+ salaries -- despite many failing schools in those districts ... pretty sad!
Victory Starts Here!
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It's worth looking at. Which has been my point, all along.
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To backscreen's point of schools losing money. The following stats are from the AP. Notice they are taking into account only schools WITH football and there are only 22 FBS schools in the entire country making money.
The median net surplus of the 22 moneymaking athletic departments was roughly $7.4 million, while the median net deficit for the other 98 FBS schools was $11.3 million.
The net operating results show FBS schools are losing nearly $9.5 million on average, compared with FCS schools that are losing slightly more than $9.1 million.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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College football makes money for TV, coaches and a handful of schools.
High school football makes money for coaches and uniform/equipment companies.
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James you live out of state so your experience does not translate well to SC. Question in IL do Football coaches get fired and lose there job if they have a few losing seasons? How many people come to watch a HS football game in IL? How many Football coaches does you school have on staff? Football will not end but I think you will see club football in the near future. But we were talking about salary's. I was just shedding some light on how we are paid as teachers and coaches. When the amount of money and the difference in pay was brought up I simply again shared my experience.
I'll answer these one at a time:
1) Question in IL do Football coaches get fired and lose there job if they have a few losing seasons?
A: Yes, they will get fired if they do not produce a winning season/ or make the playoffs. This is dependant on schools though...some are strong, some are not in football. Just like in SC.
2) How many people come to watch a HS football game in IL?
A: Again, depends on the school....a 1A school might only have 200-300 people there watching, where a 7A school might have thousands. In the area where I live, Boylan might have 1500 to 2000 people watching a game (6A School), Winnebago might have 750 to 1000 (3A school). Again, depends on the school, just like in SC.
3) How many Football coaches does you school have on staff?
A: Here are some specific examples
1) Boylan = 5 paid coaches (6A school)
2) Naperville North = 8 paid coaches (7A school)
3) Winneka New Trier = 9 paid coaches (8A school)
4) Winnebago = 6 paid coaches (3A school)
Football is a huge thing up here in IL too....don't think SC is any different than any other state. I will do some research and see how much the head coaches make...and get back to you.
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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James, interesting facts, what is the enrollment of 6a,7a,8a schools?
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Sorry, was in Chicago all weekend....or I would have gotten this to you sooner.
From the schools mentioned above....
1) Boylan = 1899 students (6A school)
2) Naperville North = 3141 students (7A school)
3) Winnetka New Trier = 4225 students (8A school)
4) Winnebago = 555 students (3A school)
Pay for head coaches:
1) Naperville North = $102,654 (7A school)
2) Winnetka New Trier = $141,724 (8A school)
3) Winnebago = couldn't find it....(3A school)
Hope that sheds some light on the subject.
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Wow Naperville is about the size of Wando and at one time Summerville,Dorman in the upstare I think is also that size. All 4a schools here.
Winnetka is a huge school! Any idea what the base salary scale is for teachers? Seems like it may be a little more.
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New Trier is a crazy Chicago burb shool....starting salary:
BA year 1 = $51,225
Masters with 20 years = $111,875
Master teacher with 20 years = $118,230
Most other Chicago area school are in the 45K range starting....
Where I live, most starting pay is in the middle to upper 30K range.
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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Coach J, I coach football and soccer and agree with many of your comments.
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Coach Y , Thanks.
James, that is a big amount of money, I asked cause I figured that the cost of living in you area would be much higher then here in SC. You have a 1st year teacher making almost as much as I do with 21 years in. But if would even out I think due to the price of day to day living and the cost of housing.
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Quote:
11/9/12
<a href="http://www.thestate.com/2012/11/09/2512560/friday-football-coaches-shouldnt.html#.UJz5tGfkCKI">Friday: Football coaches shouldn’t double as ADs</a>
Bill Pierce, Columbia
I've worked for 5 different AD's, including 2 women. The character of the person seems to matter more, in my experience, than the sport they coach. I'm very fortunate now in the situation here at Midland Valley. I hope everyone gets to experience the peace of a great AD.
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I don't get it! I know I am of a simple mind but the math just doesn't add up. This is not college football.
Let's just say a HS football coach makes $80k/yr. (not including benefits which would run 25-35% of salary = approx. $100K/yr)
Attendence 2,000 a game, 6 homes, $6ea = $72,000
Thus the gate doesn't cover the head coach salary let alone the asst. staff, ref crew, etc.
No wonder those booster clubs are busy and active!
Thus, which sport cost a school district more: football or soccer????
Rick Fielden
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At some schools, the Booster Club effectively pays coaching stipends ... especially for assistants. Personally, I find the idea of a H.S. FB staff numbering in double figures a bit of a joke. And hiring teachers precisely because they'll coach (instead of devote full effort to teaching) an even bigger joke.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Most big schools pay this much or more. Our program brings in about $150,000 at the gate, and pays out about $200,000 in coaching salaries. The key is the head coach was being paid by the district, so hocus, focus, pocus, they make $30,000. If you can not add, and or subtract, that is what you believe.
Geenville county does it right. A set salary across the whole county. Our county has 7 districts with 7 different pay policies, procedures and ways to pay coaches way too much. Unfortunetly it is like the nuclear arms race, spend baby, spend to win. Spartanburg is currently shopping for a good coach, no duties except to win, $100,000 Cash on the barrel head.
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