|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5
World Cup
|
OP
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Surely someone is smart enough to compare what we do in SC to what other states (with reputable leaues) are doing... I don't know of many problems that were solved by simply turning things over to a government agency. I am not sure what I want. But I am pretty sure I know what I don't want; the legilature taking over, the association of school administrators taking over.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281 |
What needs to happen is to allow each sport's coaching association make decisions on things, then have the association approve it; i.e. changing location for the state final for what is in the best interest of the players, getting a waiver from the all white home jersey rule, allowing ties in regular season games, restructuring the playoffs and regions, etc. The football people in Columbia are talking about going to 5 divisions for football ONLY. They are not looking out for soccer's best interest, but the soccer coaches would.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,417
World Cup
|
|
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,417 |
Quote:
What needs to happen is to allow each sport's coaching association make decisions on things, then have the association approve it; i.e. changing location for the state final for what is in the best interest of the players, getting a waiver from the all white home jersey rule, allowing ties in regular season games, restructuring the playoffs and regions, etc. The football people in Columbia are talking about going to 5 divisions for football ONLY. They are not looking out for soccer's best interest, but the soccer coaches would.
Totally agree!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
The fact is, the SCHSL shouldn't be looking out for any individual sport's "best interests," but rather, what's best for student-athletes.
THAT'S the mandate.
Whatever actions you take should assure and enhance:
1) Player (and spectator) safety.
2) Player participation (opportunity).
3) A REASONABLY level playing field.
4) Emphasis on the concept of student-athlete.
5) The quality and credentials of teacher/coaches.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
What needs to happen is to allow each sport's coaching association make decisions on things, then have the association approve it; i.e. changing location for the state final for what is in the best interest of the players, getting a waiver from the all white home jersey rule, allowing ties in regular season games, restructuring the playoffs and regions, etc. The football people in Columbia are talking about going to 5 divisions for football ONLY. They are not looking out for soccer's best interest, but the soccer coaches would.
Totally agree!
The way the league works today, it is mostly football coaches or ex football coaches making decisions. They really do not understand nor care to understand soccer. It would be great for them to have the foresight to allow the coaches associations some say in their own sports.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281 |
The problem is, the SCHSL is looking out for only 1 sport, football. Going to 5 division in only football, having 8 team regions (that doesn't affect football), have 3 games a week in a tournament, no ties, etc. Let each sport group vote on rules changes for that sport and then have it approved by the SCHSL. Each sport is different and needs the people involved making decisions.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Quote:
What needs to happen is to allow each sport's coaching association make decisions on things, then have the association approve it; i.e. changing location for the state final for what is in the best interest of the players, getting a waiver from the all white home jersey rule, allowing ties in regular season games, restructuring the playoffs and regions, etc. The football people in Columbia are talking about going to 5 divisions for football ONLY. They are not looking out for soccer's best interest, but the soccer coaches would.
I disagree. I know SCHSSCA has enough on its plate.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281 |
Still, even if the SCHSSCA has enough on their plate, do you enjoy having the state finals on a sub-par field at a sub-par facility instead of at USC??? Do you like OT and shootouts in regular season games? Do you think it is fair that only 4 teams will get into the playoffs from an 8 team region while 3 get in from a 5 team region (50% to 60%)??? Do you think that the home team should wear ALL white with no color stripes or piping? This is what the SCHLS gives soccer, is that good enough???
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 815
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 815 |
Quote:
Still, even if the SCHSSCA has enough on their plate, do you enjoy having the state finals on a sub-par field at a sub-par facility instead of at USC??? Do you like OT and shootouts in regular season games? Do you think it is fair that only 4 teams will get into the playoffs from an 8 team region while 3 get in from a 5 team region (50% to 60%)??? Do you think that the home team should wear ALL white with no color stripes or piping? This is what the SCHLS gives soccer, is that good enough???
Spot on. So much of the SCHSL's position on issues is absurd. The state finals is one that has irked me for years. The "all white" jersey just typifies their pettiness.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Not a big fan of the current SCHSL state championship venue. But as long as we're riffing on venues, how about insisting that member schools play on fields of certain MINIMAL dimensions, with certain minimal turf quality?
Don't see any 87-yard football fields, or 72-foot basketball courts.
To me, the SCHSL is not a "soccer" issue, perse, but rather an "all-sports governance" issue, with appropriate representation of all interests -- INCLUDING PARENTS AND STUDENT-ATHLETES.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Quote:
Still, even if the SCHSSCA has enough on their plate, do you enjoy having the state finals on a sub-par field at a sub-par facility instead of at USC??? Do you like OT and shootouts in regular season games? Do you think it is fair that only 4 teams will get into the playoffs from an 8 team region while 3 get in from a 5 team region (50% to 60%)??? Do you think that the home team should wear ALL white with no color stripes or piping? This is what the SCHLS gives soccer, is that good enough???
I would play for a state championship in a parking lot and be happy to be there. I think too many teams get in the playoffs. The uniform rule is from NF, not SC. I hear a lot of whining and few solutions that make any sense. Great people talk about great ideas. Small people offer little but complaints.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 249
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 249 |
Quote:
I would play for a state championship in a parking lot and be happy to be there. I think too many teams get in the playoffs. The uniform rule is from NF, not SC. I hear a lot of whining and few solutions that make any sense. Great people talk about great ideas. Small people offer little but complaints.
I think the problem is that sometimes proposals have been made but get nowhere once presented to the League. I agree that there are too many teams in the playoffs - I'd like to see region champs and runners-up along with two at-large (8 total in upper and 8 in lower). In fact, I believe this is being discussed by football coaches at present.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Easy to say that too many teams make the playoffs, but I'm not so sure I agree. Sure, there are some teams who make it in by virtue of an easy region who don't stand a chance of competing, but then there are also those fourth-seed teams that step up and beat a neighboring first-seed team in the first round. There are the late-bloomers who suffer from early-season losses but pull it together to form competitive sides late in the season--too late to take the 1 or 2 spot in the region, but not too late to be competitive in the playoffs. I've always been a strong believer in "It's not how you start, it's how you finish." I say give 'em a chance to play--at the worst, it's a chance at revenue. If a team gets blown out in the first round because they weren't prepared, that's part of the game, but if the fourth-seed team you would otherwise have excluded can step up and compete at season's end, why take away that chance?
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
corner kick
|
|
corner kick
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 281 |
Not complaining stating facts. Seems to me that other championships are played at colleges (Clemson, USC,) why not soccer when USC wants to host. Thought I read that a petition was taken to the SCHSL to ask out of the white jersey and the SCHSL rejected the waiver not the NFHS. Let everyone in the tournament. Especially since the regions are clearly unbalanced. I would find it hard to argue that a lower seed (4 even 5) from the Greenville area is not as strong as a team from almost any other area (3 maybe even 2 seeds). Why limit teams from entering the playoff? You would never have had Hoosiers (aka Milan HS). I agree with Chass, even if you just do it for extra $.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
Hey a fifth seed beat a one seed last year.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
|
|
Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
And there ya go. Many a team has dug themselves a hole in the beginning of the season before things started to click, only to pull it together and become highly competitive by the time playoffs roll around. Teams should have a chance to be rewarded for progress they make throughout the season, not just for who shows up ready to play right out of the box in week one.
I've got good news and bad news...
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 49
Kickoff
|
|
Kickoff
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 49 |
SCHSL proposal gets mixed reaction from area coachesAnderson Independent-Mail"If we're going to have five team regions that means we're going to have four games that are going to be important," Coach Jeff Tate of Wren said. "The other seven, in all honesty, will be meaningless except for preparing for games in your region. If you can win three or four games you're going to be in the playoffs. Some will say it gives you a chance and some will say that doesn't show your body of work for a whole season."
B-HP coach and athletic director Russell Blackston agrees in principle with the proposal and said it should encompass all sports. "The part that has to be done for our high school sports team is it needs to be all sports, just not football," Blackston said. "If it's football only, I'll be against it if that's the case. If it's all sports, I'll support it because that's the way high school is supposed to be."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
I would suggest that the executive committee should expand to include one head coach from each sport. That rep should be elected by that sports auxilliary membership. Every member of the committee would have an equal vote. Currently there is too much power in the hands of too few people. This would water down the apparent near-sighted effects of major sports and administrators.
Last edited by Wayne; 12/18/12 02:30 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5
World Cup
|
|
OP
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
I would suggest that the executive committee should expand to include one head coach from each sport. That rep should be elected by that sports auxilliary membership. Every member of the committee would have an equal vote. Currently there is too much power in the hands of too few people. This would water down the apparent near-sighted effects of major sports and administrators.
I agree completely!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
I would suggest that the executive committee should expand to include one head coach from each sport. That rep should be elected by that sports auxilliary membership. Every member of the committee would have an equal vote. Currently there is too much power in the hands of too few people. This would water down the apparent near-sighted effects of major sports and administrators.
Each sport needs a voice. Spot on.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
No problem at all with reasonably equal representation for each sport. But start at the top and hire an Executive Director with no previous ties to schools/sports/coaches in the state. Or, dare I say, someone PROFESSIONAL.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688
goal
|
|
goal
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 688 |
What school was JS associated with?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Quote:
No problem at all with reasonably equal representation for each sport. But start at the top and hire an Executive Director with no previous ties to schools/sports/coaches in the state. Or, dare I say, someone PROFESSIONAL.
In other words find someone who has no experience in SC? I am not so sure that is a good idea. We have had effective commissioners in the past. Although, the idea of bringing in someone with experience at the college level in administration is interesting. I wonder how, say the former commissioner of a collegiate conference would do.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Well, for one thing, he/she wouldn't kiss the collective posteriors of McKissick/Stackley/etc.
Also, the description above does not NECESSARILY preclude a South Carolina background. It just reduces/eliminates the rather obvious conflict of a former coach/colleague "ruling" on an issue.
In many instances, SCHSL employees and board members should recuse themselves from decisive votes on that basis alone.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Keep in mind that Mr. Singleton simply enforces the rules and punishments as written by the membership. Read on. I am in no way defending him.
A couple of givens are that the process that members must go through for consideration of a rule change, are unrealistic. The process simply DOES NOT WORK. That is where the paddle gets stuck in the mud.
Another given is that the executive committee, the closed group that it is, hears appeals and determines the appropriateness of the punishment. Member and sport-by-sport representation is at a minimum. This is where private agendas are met.
While I agree that we have had more effective commissioners during my 31-year career, like Ronnie Matthews and Pete Ayoub, the real solution does not lie in that office alone.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Agreed, but it's one place to start.
1) Create a "table."
2) Agree on the stakeholders who need to be around the table.
3) Require that they produce an immensely simplified and TRANSPARENT set of eligibility (and other) rules/requirements.
4) Require that they openly meet (and act) in the clear, blue light of day, redacting kids'names, as required by privacy laws.
5) Require that they enforce rules even-handedly, without regard for a school/coach/program's size, reputation and influence.
The fact that these things HAVEN'T been done consistently, if at all, tells you all you need to know about the SCHSL's current administration.
Time for them to go.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876
Brace
|
|
Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 876 |
Three bills have been pre-filed in the SC Legislature. One, S128, would dissolve The SCHSL and put control of athletics at public schools under the State Dept. of Education. The other, H3131, would allow the State Superintendent to overrule the decisions of the SCHSL commissioner, the executive committee and league delegates. H3082 replaces the league and puts control under a board appointed by the State Superintendent.
The Weather Is Here. Wish You Were Beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5
World Cup
|
|
OP
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 50
throw in
|
|
throw in
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 50 |
Last October there was a memo from the SCHSL Commissioner that which effectively denied Homeschool teams from participating in tournaments and invitationals. For example if my JV team wanted to participate in the Irmo JV tournament we would not be allowed to. This memo applied to other sports as well. Cross country meets are mostly invitationals which would be included in this ban. To be clear the word "ban" was never used, but it effectively does this.
There was no cause for this action--there were NO problems. I've heard the reason to be basically that if a homeschool program, or any other program that is not under a state association, does something that would warrant a fine, suspension, etc. if it were under an association, there is no mechanism for providing punishment to the program.
In my 6 years coaching Covenant Central we have NEVER had a situation which would come close to the situation described. And if we did I would personally suspend the player (which I have for Red Cards). But even if we did have such a situation, wouldn't the host team for the tournament NOT invite us back?
The action taken by the Commissioner does NOT affect if Brookland-Cayce, Airport, Lugoff-Elgin, Andrews, Lake City, Dutch Fork, White Knoll, Dreher or other teams we have played in the past and usually have performed well in usually tough, but fair contests, want to play us again. But we can't go to the invitationals hosted by these programs.
This is an unwarranted action and is the type of action which needs to be overriden by either the SCHSL executive committee itself or some other body.
All any team has to do is to say "no" you may not play in our invitational. A committee in Columbia should not be the ones dictating such denial.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
As we all know that this thread traces to the Goose Creek football fiasco, imagine how folks in the Creek would have felt if their football AND basketball team had won state championships with an (arguably) ineligible player, only to have those titles stripped retroactively.
---
That said, the headline "Keep politics out of prep sports" is laughable on its face. The recent history of the SCHSL is littered with unequal treatment of programs/infractions, based on the magnitude/connections of the coach/program involved. In other words, politics.
---
The real shame is that the SCHSL can not present an adequate defense for its rules and how it applies them. Too many lightweights in the league office.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 362
Corner Kick
|
|
Corner Kick
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 362 |
So most of you want some arbitrary figure at the department of education to make decisions for you rather than the administrators at different high schools that currently make up the executive committee. I for one can see no advantage to giving up local control for state control - heres a novel idea just follow the rules or suffer the consequences
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
|
|
brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Agreed. Here's the problem. IT HASN'T WORKED!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,417
World Cup
|
|
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,417 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5
World Cup
|
|
OP
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,689 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
.jpg)