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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
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"Stepping up," as you call it, begins in public forums, where legitimate questions are asked and concerns are raised. This is a soccer forum, where I am posting on a thread begun BY SOMEBODY ELSE.
The solution for the fitness issue is simple. A BASIC ANNUAL fitness test, offered on a quarterly basis, including certain age-based MINIMAL standards for (let's say) a 2-mile run and interval training. Fail the test once: retake next quarter. Fail retake: probation and retake following quarter. Fail second retake: immediate loss of certification/assignments.
The solution for in-game evaluation (at each level) is fairly simple. Coaches submit mandatory post-game evals (as short and simple as GOOD, AVERAGE, or NEEDS IMPROVEMENT) to an assigner/evaluator who follows up with his own evaluation for those officials who repeatedly fall short.
The solution for "mentoring" is simple. WHEN POSSIBLE, each crew includes a veteran, mid-level or higher official and AT LEAST one younger official who is learning his/her trade. At least 3X per "season," younger officials are formally evaluated by their "mentors."
To improve certification classes: 1) Limit the classroom time to 4 hours/year. 2) Add an outdoor component that includes fitness testing and situational instruction.
To limit conflicts of interest, require each official to fill out a bio form that includes affiliation with schools/coaches/etc., AND allows each official the opportunity to identify any prospective problem assignment.
To help offset the salary issue, establish PERFORMANCE-BASED pay scale, with enhancements for additional training/classes completed.
Any LEGITIMATE official who wants to contact me privately may do so by private message.
My name is Coach Navarro and I support this message.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
I've been following this thread quietly for a bit and thought I'd weigh in briefly from a coach's perspective, both in the high school and club arenas. I first want to support what has been said before in that we need to help cultivate great officials, not just criticize. There are plenty of great examples and role models out there, and here, from my perspective, are the traits that I admire in an official. 1. PLAYER SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT. I'm all for letting the players decide the game on the field, and soccer is a contact sport. To pull a quote from Days of Thunder, "Rubbin' is racin'." The officials I admire most know the difference between "rubbin'" and dangerous play and are quick to draw the distinction with their whistles. They understand that yellow cards when they are deserved earlier in the game can save red cards later, and that nobody wants to discover the line between playing hard and playing recklessly while someone is being carried off the field. 2. Consistency is crucial. The best officials I know call the game the same way in the first minute as in the last, 1-1 or 10-0, regardless of what color jerseys are involved or what happened five minutes ago. We don't expect every official to call the game exactly the same way, any more than we expect every teacher to teach the same subject exactly the same way. There is a certain amount of professional subjectivity that comes with the job and should be expected. But we teach our players the importance of adapting their play to the game conditions--the strengths, weaknesses, and style of play of the other team, the field conditions, the weather, our own fitness, injuries, etc. The officials' style is one of the game conditions that players need to recognize and adapt to, and as long as it is consistent then players can learn quickly to operate under each official's set of expectations. Inconsistent calling, even when it's "make-up calls" for something earlier, causes confusion and frustration on the part of players who are trying to recognize and adapt to the conditions. 3. Be confident, be professional, but don't take yourself TOO seriously. The officials I admire recognize that every coach and every official, no matter how experienced, is capable of making errors. Two of the most memorable conversations I've had with officials (after the game was over and handshakes were exchanged) ended in "Wow, you're right...I was really off-base on that one." In one instance that sentence came from the official; in the other it came from me. Once we accept fallibility in others AND in ourselves, we can work on doing it BETTER rather than getting mad over lack of perfection. As far as someone putting himself above accepting evaluation because he's "been doing it for 25 years" or so, just remember--just because you've been doing it for a long time, that's no guarantee you've been doing it right. Heck, I know people who have been thinking their whole lives, and they're still idiots.  4. Contrary to what has been stated repeatedly here, the best officials recognize that what takes place on the field is NOT "just a game." Done right, sports are so much more than that. We talk to our players about passion, about commitment, about sacrifice, about team over individuality, about the realities of sportsmanship, not just the word. We ask them--and they choose--to make decisions about what is important to them...about what they will invest in, often at the sacrifice of other things. We ask them to learn lessons within the sport about how to treat others, how they should expect to be treated, and most importantly how to respond to the way they are treated. We try to teach things within the game that we hope will be carried far off the pitch and far beyond youth. And if we as adults are truly invested, we ask all of those things of ourselves as well as our players. If, after all of that, we can dismiss what happens on the field as unimportant, as inconsequential, as "just a game"...then I say we have failed in our most important tasks. The best people I know recognize that, and they give the game their best because they do realize that in the bigger picture, it's not "just" a game.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 165
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 165 |
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I am around HS soccer and this spring has been especially poor.
Just to confirm this observation, I've been shocked at how bad the officiating has been this season in the HS league. We've had similar conversations. I'm not sure what the reason is, but I've seen a lot of calls that I've never seen in a decade+ of watching.
Could just be coincidence, but definitely something that should be noted.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67
Throw In
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Throw In
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67 |
College soccer has an annual fitness test and those USSF grade 7 or above officials have one as well. It is much more than a simple 2 mile run. No referee anywhere in the world officiates a match in constant motion. Having someone run a 2 mile test is stupid.
You want to have coaches submit evaluations? There goes the rest of your referees. First, it would never happen in USSF. Only QUALIFIED assessors those that have taken classes, and have been certified officials for a number of years can become assessors, and guess what you can not stop an official from doing games because they failed an assessment. It does not work that way, I know, I have been an assessor for 20 years. Same thing in College, only qualified certified assessors can judge the performance of an official. It will never happen in High School because there are not enough people, and the NFHS prohibits the practice of coaches assessing officials in its Coaches ethics page, so it will never happen. And if it does, I am out of the game, I had a discussion with a coach a number of years ago who told me I was the worst ever because I called the ball out when it was still in the air. I tried to tell him this is not basketball, but he would not listen.
You will also never get a performance based pay system to work either. Most officials are limited by their schedule by the number of games they can do anyway.
Congratulations you have just driven away the last official in the state of South Carolina, all the refereeing is now yours to enjoy.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67
Throw In
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Throw In
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 67 |
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I've been following this thread quietly for a bit and thought I'd weigh in briefly from a coach's perspective, both in the high school and club arenas. I first want to support what has been said before in that we need to help cultivate great officials, not just criticize. There are plenty of great examples and role models out there, and here, from my perspective, are the traits that I admire in an official.
1. PLAYER SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT. I'm all for letting the players decide the game on the field, and soccer is a contact sport. To pull a quote from Days of Thunder, "Rubbin' is racin'." The officials I admire most know the difference between "rubbin'" and dangerous play and are quick to draw the distinction with their whistles. They understand that yellow cards when they are deserved earlier in the game can save red cards later, and that nobody wants to discover the line between playing hard and playing recklessly while someone is being carried off the field.
2. Consistency is crucial. The best officials I know call the game the same way in the first minute as in the last, 1-1 or 10-0, regardless of what color jerseys are involved or what happened five minutes ago. We don't expect every official to call the game exactly the same way, any more than we expect every teacher to teach the same subject exactly the same way. There is a certain amount of professional subjectivity that comes with the job and should be expected. But we teach our players the importance of adapting their play to the game conditions--the strengths, weaknesses, and style of play of the other team, the field conditions, the weather, our own fitness, injuries, etc. The officials' style is one of the game conditions that players need to recognize and adapt to, and as long as it is consistent then players can learn quickly to operate under each official's set of expectations. Inconsistent calling, even when it's "make-up calls" for something earlier, causes confusion and frustration on the part of players who are trying to recognize and adapt to the conditions.
3. Be confident, be professional, but don't take yourself TOO seriously. The officials I admire recognize that every coach and every official, no matter how experienced, is capable of making errors. Two of the most memorable conversations I've had with officials (after the game was over and handshakes were exchanged) ended in "Wow, you're right...I was really off-base on that one." In one instance that sentence came from the official; in the other it came from me. Once we accept fallibility in others AND in ourselves, we can work on doing it BETTER rather than getting mad over lack of perfection. As far as someone putting himself above accepting evaluation because he's "been doing it for 25 years" or so, just remember--just because you've been doing it for a long time, that's no guarantee you've been doing it right. Heck, I know people who have been thinking their whole lives, and they're still idiots.
4. Contrary to what has been stated repeatedly here, the best officials recognize that what takes place on the field is NOT "just a game." Done right, sports are so much more than that. We talk to our players about passion, about commitment, about sacrifice, about team over individuality, about the realities of sportsmanship, not just the word. We ask them--and they choose--to make decisions about what is important to them...about what they will invest in, often at the sacrifice of other things. We ask them to learn lessons within the sport about how to treat others, how they should expect to be treated, and most importantly how to respond to the way they are treated. We try to teach things within the game that we hope will be carried far off the pitch and far beyond youth. And if we as adults are truly invested, we ask all of those things of ourselves as well as our players.
If, after all of that, we can dismiss what happens on the field as unimportant, as inconsequential, as "just a game"...then I say we have failed in our most important tasks. The best people I know recognize that, and they give the game their best because they do realize that in the bigger picture, it's not "just" a game.
1. Player safety is paramount. Therefore coaches should not be coaching, period during a match. You should have prepared your team before the match, there was a time when coaches could not coach during a match. If a coach disagrees with a referee's decision and makes it known to everyone in the world, guess what he is now endangering player's safety. Think about it.
2. While consistency is crucial I disagree with the 10-0 game with 30 minutes left. That is where a mercy rule needs to put in place, that is where frustration sets in. Referees need to actually be tighter in that situation. Good referees will instruct their assistants before a match to take a "temperature" of the game. If as the center official I see my AR clutching on to his shorts, I know he wants me to tighten up the calls. The game at the higher levels are never called consistently there is always adjustments going on with the referees. Go on youtube, there should be clips of conversations the referees have during matches, and you can hear the AR tell the center to tighten it up, etc.
3. If you have been officiating for 25 years, have done Division I college matches (the second best level in this country) semi-pro, pro matches, international friendlies, and have assessed and instructed others than you have been doing it right, and the only real criticism you take is from your assistants. Only a handful of coaches can come up to that level. I'm sorry but Murray the 65 year old gym coach who was forced to be the JV Girls soccer coach has nothing to offer me about how to officiate a match. Just like I would have nothing to offer my fellow football, baseball or basketball officials. I don't tell my doctor how to perform surgery or my lawyer the law, etc. YOu don't survive past 5 years as an official if you have been doing it wrong.
4. Again it depends on the level. When you officiate games where the coaches salary and livelihood depends on some calls you make or don't make, you stepped up to an entirely new level. But for High School coaches forget that the game is an extension of the classroom, and I'm sorry I would not want to be in some of the classrooms these coaches teach in.
However most of your post is spot on. Nothing is an absolute in this game, nothing is set in stone it is very fluid. The main point is the game is for the players, whether they be little kids, high schoolers, or adults. Not for the officials, coaches, fans, or parents, and that is the number one problem in South Carolina. People think its for themselves.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062
brace
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brace
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
Arrgy: Please reread my post. Regarding fitness, I suggested BASIC guidelines, including a 2-miler AND interval training (which would normally cover some of the stop/start effort by officials). If someone can suggest a better, fairer, more stringent test, I say, DO IT!
Regarding evals: I suggested submission of a VERY basic form to a (presumably qualified) assigner/evaluator, who follows up ONLY in the event of REPEATED problems.
Honestly, this is minimal stuff, and should be supported by ANY official who takes pride in his work and actually wants to meet a "standard." Those who don't? We're better off without them.
In your response to another poster, you refer to "Murray, the 65-year-old gym coach" and the irrelevance of suggestions or evals he may offer. Wow! Your concern is precisely why the eval process should cover a RANGE of input, and prompt follow-up ONLY in the event of a REPEATED problem.
By the way, Murray probably recognizes fitness (or lack of it) when he sees it, and HIS 40-plus years as an Educator/Coach may well imply a level of qualification in competitive sports that trumps even yours.
He's certainly worth a listen.
Ignoring reasonable, constructive input bespeaks a larger problem. And that would be arrogance.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457
Hat-Trick
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Hat-Trick
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,457 |
As with this post and the discussion therein, this is an emotional discussion about what is supposed to be unemotional (objective) subject.
I am for providing feedback on performance IF the emotion can be removed (again objective).
I for one have stated before a game that ref "such and such" is a good referee only to then see them calling a game completely inconsistent with past performance.
It happens they are human and the two man system in HS does not help
One thing that I have always said no matter the sport - you should never let it come down to a call or non-call to determine whether you win or lose
Fitness to officiate a game should be mandatory what that should be I leave to the ref association - assignors should assign games based on competition level, experience and fitness.... but that may trump the $$/game if the experienced guy has to drive a long distance
And lastly; a while back there used to be a ref who lived in the Spartanburg area (I think) that was a normal MLS referee and he did a couple of HS games... an experienced guy, fit and of the highest caliber available... and still half the stadium was unhappy... it is part of the business.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
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1. Player safety is paramount. Therefore coaches should not be coaching, period during a match. You should have prepared your team before the match, there was a time when coaches could not coach during a match. If a coach disagrees with a referee's decision and makes it known to everyone in the world, guess what he is now endangering player's safety. Think about it.
I'm thinking about it...and I'm not sure I follow your point here. I agree that a coach openly disagreeing with the way the match is being called does introduce a whole new level of frustration and can undermine the sense of authority that holds players in check. I'm not sure, though, what that has to do with not coaching, period, during a match. Are you saying that a coach reading the situation on the field, seeing problems, and making adjustments is a danger to player safety and somehow undermines the officials? Are you assuming that any coaching input is going to be critical of or counter to the input of the officials? Not sure where you're coming from with this particular point. Please, also, bear in mind that the game at the youth, club, and high school levels is meant to be DEVELOPMENTAL. Sure, at the professional and college levels, the coach and players should, as Sun Tsu put it, know their enemies and themselves prior to the match. A coach would have studied the opponents' style, would have spent hours watching game film, would have a very good idea of exactly how the game would play out and yes, should have prepared the team prior to the match. In youth and high school sports this is not always the case, the information is not always available until the match is in progress, and adjustments need to be made on the field before 40-45 minutes have passed. Add that to the fact that in developmental levels of soccer, many players are still learning the game, and they are in situations that cannot be replicated in practice. A reasonable amount of coaching--not "joysticking"--is necessary in some situations...I've lost count of the number of times I've sent a player to the line to have her say, "Coach, I'll do my best, but you have to talk to me and tell me if I'm doing ok." Maybe you're trying to say that the officials should be the ONLY voice of authority on the pitch--in which case I would say that you can learn to share authority with each other without undermining each other. The coach can definitely have an effect on the way the players respond to the officials--and done right, it can be a very positive one.
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2. While consistency is crucial I disagree with the 10-0 game with 30 minutes left. That is where a mercy rule needs to put in place, that is where frustration sets in. Referees need to actually be tighter in that situation. Good referees will instruct their assistants before a match to take a "temperature" of the game. If as the center official I see my AR clutching on to his shorts, I know he wants me to tighten up the calls. The game at the higher levels are never called consistently there is always adjustments going on with the referees. Go on youtube, there should be clips of conversations the referees have during matches, and you can hear the AR tell the center to tighten it up, etc.
True. Adjustments do sometimes need to be made based on what is happening on the field, but hopefully, if #1 has been followed, they will be MINOR adjustments, not major changes in what is acceptable and what is not. If reasonable shoulder-to-shoulder jockeying for the ball is ok in the beginning of the match, then the slightest touch shouldn't be a foul in the second half if committed by the winning team. If a tackle in the box is a PK in the first half, then the same type of tackle in the box shouldn't be a look-the-other-way in the second half just because the team committing the foul is down a few goals already. Some of the worst disasters I have seen have happened when an official has gone from anything-goes early in the game to everything's-a-whistle late in the match. That's the kind of consistency I'm talking about. If you establish what is safe, acceptable play early in the game, then your adjustments will be reasonable and understandable to the players as the game progresses.
I'm not even going to say "You shouldn't have to get coaching from your AR during the match--you should have prepared yourself before the game," because yes, sometimes the people on the field DO need some input based on what is happening around them. Thanks for making that point.
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3. If you have been officiating for 25 years, have done Division I college matches (the second best level in this country) semi-pro, pro matches, international friendlies, and have assessed and instructed others than you have been doing it right, and the only real criticism you take is from your assistants. Only a handful of coaches can come up to that level. I'm sorry but Murray the 65 year old gym coach who was forced to be the JV Girls soccer coach has nothing to offer me about how to officiate a match. Just like I would have nothing to offer my fellow football, baseball or basketball officials. I don't tell my doctor how to perform surgery or my lawyer the law, etc. YOu don't survive past 5 years as an official if you have been doing it wrong.
We've seen officials at the World Cup (Yes, that's the big one) whose behavior has been so inexplicable that they have been removed from play at that level...yet somehow they reached that point. By your logic, the must have been "doing it right"--yet someone at the highest levels disagreed. I'm sorry, but time spent and levels achieved are no guarantee of excellence...there are gems and there are duds at every level of competition, and even the best are not beyond reproach--and knowing the are not beyond reproach is part of what makes them the best.
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4. Again it depends on the level. When you officiate games where the coaches salary and livelihood depends on some calls you make or don't make, you stepped up to an entirely new level. But for High School coaches forget that the game is an extension of the classroom, and I'm sorry I would not want to be in some of the classrooms these coaches teach in.
And that's the difference...tough as it may be sometimes, most of us value our classrooms, whether they are inside a building or out on the grass. I like to think sometimes at the youth levels of soccer, maybe sometimes we are playing for something even a little more important than one coach's job or salary.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Oct 2007
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goal
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goal
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Well said Coach, well said.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7
bench
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bench
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Backscreen here is the food for thought:
1. Fitness cert for officials - who will pay for this not sure you know but if you require this then it will cost.
2. You want assessors to be at the matches - again who pays for this as this will also cost.
3. Where are you going to find all the people that are fit as a fiddle, can run like a world class sprinter, never miss a call. Answer you can't!!!
4. Give you this much, yes there are referee's out there that aren't not as mobile as others, don't apply the Law/Rules like others, misses calls, and such. But and here's the big But if you don't have these referee's out there then you won't be able to have your match as there are not that many referee's out there. This is with any sport not only with soccer.
Now my take yes I would like to see a grade level like USSF and with that fitness and assessments but the hard truth is that the High Schools have the option to pay for a three man system but due to the extra cost elect not to. So if they aren't willing to pay an extra few dollars for a three man system then the chances they would be willing to pay for the other above items would be ZERO chance. Until soccer is taken seriously and supported by the state's, the news media and such things, there won't be to many changes.
The follow up on the assignors, they do what they can to match the referee's to the level of play but there are only a few referee's that work very hard to better themselves and strive to do better with every match, so if you have 10 matches that are barn burners and only 5 top referee's that can handle these type of matches what can the assignors do? I will give you the easy answer, the best they can.
Backscreen I will leave you with this if you want things to improve then I invite you to get involved, get certified, go out to the fields on every Saturday, Sunday and during the week and mentor the referee's and help them to get better. You might ask well how much do I get paid to do this? That would be ZERO!!!!! If we got paid to mentor then you would get more mentors out there but where would that money come from? Here again it would come out of your pocket as a parent so are you willing to pay an extra $100 per player each season? I will tell you that very few parents would do this. If you have any positive input please feel free to share it with us. I will now have to leave to head to the soccer field to mentor 5 matches today my question to you is what are you going to do today to help improve the referee's in your local area?
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