SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Referees

Chelsea Fan, provide your name, number, and private email address so someone can contact you. If you are unwilling, you are just another message board "troll".

Touche, however I have no issues with the referees. If this person is so critical, put your name out there for people to see. Instead you sit behind your computer and tear others down.

I may not agree with every call an official makes, but I accept the fact that they are doing their best. I am a coach and player who respects their authority. I would guess that Backscreen (whomever he/she is) is nothing more than another know-it-all parent who is living vicariously through their child. If it's not the referee, then it's the coach or club that is not performing up to their standards. I would also guess that this person has never played, coached, or officiated a match in their life.

The functional word there being "guess." As I said before, I have sent Private Messages to several folks here. Waiting for responses.

After taking a little time to read the whole thread, I guess I can interject a few things.

1) In Illinois we have a rating system in place to rate the officials. It is done by the coaches...and there have not been any huge defections. You would think that this would weed out the bad referees, but it does not. It just limits some of the worst ones from doing playoff games. There is a shortage of referees in our area, so the bad ones still have to be used on occasion. Our officials are also rated in a few other ways....on a top 15 list (each coach picks the top 15 referees that they would want to ref their games, and puts it on a list....this rating is compiled across the state...and the more top 15 lists that you get put on, the higher your ranking points are). We are also ranked on past playoff experience, knowledge of the rules, consistency of our calls, professional appearance (backscreen's ultimate definition of a referee, fitness), positioning during the game, and professionalism. I am sure there are other ratings that I am leaving out...but just so you know arrgy....it has not destroyed the soccer official profession here in Illinois.

2) I take what backscreen has with a grain of salt when it comes to fitness. I understand that you don't want a huge fat guy out there trying to keep up with play, or an 80 year old that can't keep up....that is just ridiculous. But your harping on fitness being the end all be all is a bit much. I am in pretty good shape...but could stand to lose that final 15-20 pounds. Like most referees...I have 3 kids, work a full time job, have to make all of my kids practices, after school activities, etc...and still have hobbies that I like to do outside of soccer. I also try to work out 3-4 times a week, and stay in shape. When it comes to working everything in during my week...I am not going to lie...I should work out more, but it just isn't going to happen. Backscreen, I have seen referees that are in awesome shape take the rules and twist them into something that makes the game of soccer painful to watch. There is WAY more than just pure fitness involved with refereeing a game. Your point is taken that you have to have people that are in reasonable shape to referee a quality game...but your enfatuation with it is extreme. You leave out so much more when you purely focus on fitness.

3) I also take offense to Backscreen saying that referees have no say in the games that they go do. That is the job of the assignor. Come on now, what crack are you smoking here? I am not going to drive more than 30 minutes normally to referee a soccer game any more (even if my assignor wants me to). Just isn't going to happen....there are plenty of coaches that ask for me to come do games in their area, but I have way too much going on to drive that far. So I limit where I am going to do games geographically. Secondly, I have certain places that I don't like to referee because they have rednecked/obnoxious fans that are beyond annoying....so much so that they cause problems in the stands with other fans, get into it with school officials, have no problems following an offical out to their car if their team lost and threaten them etc. I don't want to be anywhere around these types of fans, so I choose not to go to those schools/places. In fact, I tell my assignor not even to assign me a game at those places, because I will either outright refuse the game, or I will give the game to another referee to cover for me. I am providing a service by refereeing, and I am not going to go to certian schools/places...that is the end of that discussion.

4) In high school, we have 3 levels of officials here in Illinois. As a certified official, I can rate other officials, and provide mentoring to them on the field, and after the game. I try to do this, and I try to give constructive feedback to new officials. I also take to heart if someone is willing to tell me if I am out of position, or am doing something not up to par during a game. I may not like to hear it...but I know that I have areas to improve in too. I do like the leveling of officials.

5) Backscreen, I have messaged you before, and you never returned a response, so don't act all high and mighty.

Backscreen, what you say are excuses are sometimes just plain reality. We do have a shortage of officials where I live, not a smokescreen. You should see the amount of emails that I get to help out with more games because they can't cover all of the games that they have. the development of pride to get more young people into officiating is a noble idea. The unfortunate reality is that the young people that I talk to that quit refereeing was not because of lack of games/lack of quality games, it was that they were no longer going to take the abuse from fans and coaches. And I helped mentor these younger referees within our officials association. You are taking an over simplistic view of the situation, and are overlooking the reality.

James, I've gone back through all received message since 2010 -- all that I've gotten -- and unless you've changed your handle, there is none from you.

I strongly disagree on the fitness issue. Physical fitness is a BASELINE qualification. Kind of like 20/20 vision. And based on my VERY MODEST suggestions above, it sounds like you'd probably pass, even 15-20 pounds overweight. You're right that fitness is no guarantee of competence. But visible LACK of fitness invites all kinds of problems when a call is (inevitably) missed because the ref or AR is 30 yards behind the play. When the goal is AUTHORITY, perception IS important. That's why you wear a nice uniform, and not ratty gym shorts.

You're also right about referees having SOME (very limited) say in assignments, but based only on geography/logistics. When presumably good officials (such as yourself) refuse assignments at certain venues because of "redneck" fans, they leave those matches to lesser colleagues. The REALITY is, good referees should work the difficult or "hot" venues precisely because they're most qualified to defuse problems BEFORE they start. Strong officials ACCEPT a challenge; they don't pass it off to less experienced or less qualified counterparts.

MORE TO COME

MORE -- What I do appreciate is the dialogue. There is a middle ground. What bothers me is resignation to the status quo. If it's not working, let's give some reasonable thought to changing it. Let's not just sit around and say why it can't be improved. Or worse, dismiss all criticism outright as the rantings of a soccer parent.
As I've said here before, assuming that all parents/fans are some unqualified to comment is not a constructive behavior.

The suggestions made in order to assist the referee's in the performance of their jobs all seem to be reasonable when applied with common sense. I think what frustrates people outside the officiating community is that how fast the wagons are circled when anything about an official is questioned. Sure its a thankless position, sure they are underpaid, sure they are human, sure some are working way below their skill level, sure some are biased, sure some are just not cut out to be officiating. We must applaud the dedication of those who work so hard to manage the game, we also must re train or re educate those who try and control the game due to ego or bias or anything that is self serving. We should never be having this conversation as they should be invisible and never make an impact on the game. But there is only one problem and that we are all human which really only becomes a problem when we neglect to acknowledge our mistakes.

The player is forced to acknowledge and take responsibility for his mistake with a foul or card. The coach and team also has to take responsibility. Ultimately being rewarded with a win or loss. Does a ref even have his pay cut? Loose assignments? etc.

I think what back screen really wants to know is why is there never any conversation when something is so obvious and egregious that it is ignored. I think it would be enlightening to have a response other than we are shorthanded or we cant do that.

Common sense ideas are good, and general fitness where the referee doesn't look like they are going to die after 20 minutes of running around is good too. While I agree that the referee should just blend into the game, and should go unnoticed, you really get in the spotlight when you make that call in the 78th minute that is a PK. No matter what you do, the whole stadium knows you are there at that point.

While I do agree with backscreen about general fitness, I am a bit concerned as to why he doesn't think that the referee should have a say in where he/she goes to ref. If I don't want to be there, I am already in a mindset that is not beneficial to the game. When I show up to a game, I usually go down the road that this is a great day to be outside playing soccer. I don't want to show up and think, oh God, what crap is going to go on again this time that I am going to have to controll. Is it the coach? Do I have to show him a card in the first 5 minutes of the game to shut him up? Is it the fans? Do I have to tell the AD to make sure they aren't saying anything racially motivated to the players of the away team? Do I have to worry about a parent walking out on the field and confronting my AR because he didn't like the offsides call? These are bush-league worries that I don't want to deal with. You may say that I should relish the work that I have to do to control these games. I look at it as, why would I go ref at a place like this on purpose? Why would I put myself in a position to be denigrated and belittled? I understand having my calls questioned...it is up to the coaches to lobby me, and usually the fans crack me up with what they come up with....but some places are so filled with hate and discontent that I have absolutely no desire to go ref there.

It is no different than working a job at a place that you want to work. You have a choice.

Surprise, surprise...I still agree with a lot of what backscreen said though...you all need a rating system in SC for the referees, and you need to have some accountability to the quality of games that you referee, and the way you look, and your professionalism. And I will say that we do have some issues with older referees still getting games that they shouldn't be getting anymore. Those referees need to gracefully start to step aside into more of a mentor role, and less of an active refereeing role. JMO

I do think more experienced referees are needed in the most meaningful games and I think the less emotional and less biased referees are the ones needed in those situations and not necessarily the most physically fit or whom has the most certifications. Picking games because of their location or fans or coaches is BS. Which bothers you? a parent who is unknowledgeable at a non soccer school?, a know it all group of parents at a perennial power? a school located in a poverty stricken area? a school in a high traffic yuppie area? a football coach just trying to make a difference as a soccer coach? a experienced soccer coach starting to ask for calls before the National Anthem is completed?.

suggestion, before officiating a match speak with AD about parental expectations and security. Talk with coaches and captains before game about what your expectations for the game will be.

Honestly I do thing you may have a great idea but with one qualifier. If any coach objects to a particular official for any reason then they can't officiate any of their matches. Kind of a goose and gander thing.