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Joined: May 2006
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Brace
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Brace
Joined: May 2006
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^^^^
What he said
All-State should be the 18 best players in that class, not some participation award
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 616
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Mar 2007
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If you took a player named to the all-state team from Wando and replaced him with my best player, would he no longer be considered an all-state player?
Or would he get recognized still because of where he played club soccer and people would know him from there?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,421
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,421 |
Ok, i'll be the bad guy here... a hypothetical player who scores 35 goals and has 20 assists for a team that is 14-2 versus a schedule that includes only one team with a winning record is not necessarily an All State player! Nor is a player who was the "heart and soul" of a team who finished with a 6-10 record. Just because you have a good player on your team and they play well against your schedule does not mean they are an All State player.
Yes, the committees should be made up of coaches from the best teams b/c #1-they are most likely to show up to the meeting and have productive discussion #2-they most likely played a schedule that included the widest variety of teams and thus saw the most players and #3-if they are the best teams, they most likely had the best players!
I have been involved in this process for a long time, and i think the SCHSSCA does an excellent job of selecting committee members who are going to be able to speak to the widest range of players.
This is not about giving every kid an award... All State is about picking the best 18 players. The top 1-2 players off every team in the state may not deserve to be in the conversation! Yes, if the 5th best player on a top level team is better than the #1 player on a below average team, then the 5th best player should make All State! The coach from that #1 player does not necessarily deserve to be on the committee b/c they most likely did not play a schedule that allowed them to see a variety of other players. Go on SCSoccer.com and look at schedules.
Look at 2A boys.... every team ranked in the top 10 at the time of the meeting was represented with a player on the All State team. There were 2 selections from teams without coaches at the meeting... but there were only a couple of players nominated from schools not represented. In fact, Whale Branch did not nominate their GKer who is in the Clash. There were 7 coaches at the meeting. The committee members saw every player from a non-represented school play and agreed via discussion that players not selected were not worthy of All State.
Before you criticize All State, know that most likely multiple coaches on the committee saw that player play and agreed that they were either All State material or not. Very well stated, Jason! Believe it or not, the All-Star and All-State committees are very seriously constructed and it takes a lot of time to recognize annually deserving coaches/members to be a part of the process. This is not a fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants protocol and I believe the folks that have participated in these events can vouch for that notion. However, there is no doubt that some coaches have a really tough time "deciding" who is All-State from their squad(s). But, that is why a panel is necessary to make that decision. Just like the NSCAA motto says, "Learn. Participate. Belong".
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,705 Likes: 5
World Cup
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OP
World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,705 Likes: 5 |
I will have All-State Certificates - already filled out for each player - for distribution this weekend at the state finals for those that want to pick theirs up. Will save $ on mailings.
Last edited by Kyle Heise; 05/14/15 03:26 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 616
Goal
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Goal
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I would be curious to see the break down of All state players by club. Anyone able to do that?
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12
Bench
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More facts: Club breakdown. 4a girls.
9 CESA ECNL players
8 Cola Premier players
1 Mt pleasant premier player…….
No other clubs represented.
I appreciate the "they all put hard time and consideration into this selection process" and the "It has worked and is working" remark from the voice of reason guy, but he still has not provided any considerable facts from which to infer. Everything he is saying is basically circumstantial.
Again, it will never be perfect, but the moment we stop trying to progress for the better or stop looking at potential blind spots is the same moment that we as coaches thwart what we teach. So kudos to Kevin and Alister for exploring ways to improve and progress, even if they are minor. Weaknesses and short falls are not fun to expose, but to the one who does, growth is the only thing to follow.
No one has still provided justification for this original post.
For example, Caitlyn Reilly, Fort D, is an awesome player. She has great stats and a team player for Fort made the selection (and should've, unique ability), but Emmalee who has similar or better did not. They both played against each other and are both in tough region 6 and 7 4a.
Again, I don't wish this to change, and will accept any justification that is given.
I love Alister's posts. He is trying to provide solutions:
I'll try to come up with some constructive ideas as well.
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Kickoff
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Kickoff
Joined: Mar 2013
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Ok, so I would also like to be "that guy" for a moment as well.
What do you do if your program is a "smaller" or newer program (not normally known as a top competitor)? Most of these schools do not have the money to travel to big tournaments and are not always located in close proximity to these tournaments.
Also, the bigger schools will usually not give games to these programs due to them being viewed as "lesser" teams. I have run into the problem in the past and this year. The better competition, that I keep seeing referenced as a way to better expose players and teams, will usually deny a request for a game or just ignore it completely. How then do I schedule the "better" teams if they are unwilling to play?
It just seems to be a disconnect here.
And I am not trying to call anyone out or complain about a player not receiving an honor. I honestly just want to give every student-athlete a fair opportunity to earn their place and find the best ways to support our student-athletes.
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Bench
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Where will you be located to pick them up? Thanks for all your hard work!
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Kickoff
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Kickoff
Joined: Jul 2009
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I was in the meeting, and I hope I'm reading into your last comment the wrong way, but I promise you that there were no coaches in that room with a "club agenda". We simply looked for, discussed, and selected who we thought were the top 18 players in AAAA. I'll follow Jason Hamil and Kyle's lead and say this (not directed at you or anyone specifically), but it is quite annoying that we as coaches make a 1-2 hour drive on a Sunday morning to "serve" as a member of the selection committee only to get questioned by everyone in the state upset with the process. You absolutely have a right to voice your concerns, but I also have a right to express to everyone questioning the process that we spent a great deal of time deliberating which players we felt should be honored by this selection. I think what you would find is that most of the players selected do play on some of the higher level club teams in the state, but should that really be any big surprise?
On another note, I think Kyle and Kevin do put a lot of thought and effort into the coaches selected to these committees, and I also think they do a great job organizing these meetings because without their direction who knows when/if any of these meetings would take place. I was honored to be a part of the committee and felt obligated to be there, but I do object to anyone who questions the integrity of the fellow coaches that were on the AAAA boy's selection committee. I've been to my fair share of these meetings and this year's was very professional and fair. Of course there are going to be kids that some feel deserved to be on the All-State team, but I think we put too much emphasis sometimes on these awards because people want to complain about the human element involved (which is that it is a selection) instead of teaching our players that it is an extreme honor that they were nominated by their coach or another coach in the first place.
Again, healthy discussion and conversations about this topic are great for our state. But there are a few people who post just to stir the pot, and do not contribute anything positive to SC High School Soccer. I do not post a lot on this board, but I did feel the need to weigh in on this topic.
Congrats to ALL players nominated and named All-State!
Josh Eskew
Dorman Soccer
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Joined: May 2015
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Coach Eskew; This is actually my first time posting so I am new to this particular process. Yes, no need to read into the club post. It was asked, is all.
Thank you for serving and voting. (And to the Kevin and Kyle) I do appreciate your efforts.
I truly think there is merit to your post as well.
Again, it is nice to be a part of a decent and constructive dialogue.
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