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#173914 - 09/20/17 11:21 AM Battery takes over SSC
Alister DeLong Offline
Goal

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 537
Loc: Lowcountry

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#173953 - 10/20/17 02:54 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Chantman Offline
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Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 482
Appears the Battery is taking the lead in the Lowcountry.

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#174039 - 12/23/17 09:19 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Dear Summerville/Charleston Battery Youth Soccer Club Players, Parents and Coaches,


I trust you are all well and no doubt looking forward to the holidays. I just wanted to take the time and update you on a number of youth soccer related items we are working on.

1. The Charleston Battery maintenance crew has been at the Summerville Soccer Facility for the past couple of weeks to tidy up the areas surrounding the soccer fields - this is phase 1 of the facility redevelopment. Future/longer term plans include resurfacing the road and parking lot, painting the field-house and eventually turfing up to 3 of the fields.

2. CBSC have announced our Dallas Cup team for the 2005 Boys - this is one of the highest level of tournaments in the USA and has professional youth teams from all over the world - this team will be a one off tournament only team - and will be selected from players who attend our tryout from a multitude of local youth clubs. More info here - http://www.chsbatterysc.com/news_article/show/868298?referrer_id=3489435

3. We have hired our Technical Director who will oversee the whole of Charleston Battery youth soccer - the announcement is iminent and you will be seeing him on a regular basis when your sons/daughters return for their Spring season. His job will be to evaluate our programs, coaches and to set the curriculum and long term vision and plan for the future of Charleston Battery youth soccer.

4. Every registered Summerville Soccer Club player will be receiving a season ticket for the 2018 USL season - with reduced prices for siblings and parents - there is no better player development tool than observing the best level of soccer in South Carolina! More information to come in January.

5. Our first ever youth tournament in conjunction with our Senior Team’s Carolina Challenge Cup is getting a lot of interest from some of the region’s top youth clubs - we have had enquiries from Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio and Minnesota. As well as international interest from Mexico and Brazil! More information here - http://www.chsbatterysc.com/challengecup




Over the next few weeks/months you will be seeing more announcements regarding our future plans, including try out dates/format for 2018-19 as well as coaching staff for 2018-19.

CBSC plans on holding an open forum for players, parents and coaches alike with our new youth director sometime in the new year - we would love you to attend and hear your questions and concerns. Youth development is a long term process and we believe our strategic affiliations with the Charleston Battery and Charleston Fleet senior teams are an integral part, ultimately for the overall benefit of all youth soccer in the lowcountry and beyond!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


Mike Kelleher

Chief Operating Officer

Charleston Battery

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#174040 - 12/23/17 09:25 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
The Charleston Battery Challenge Cup is a youth tournament that coincides with the Carolina Challenge Cup (CCC), a preseason professional tournament featuring the Charleston Battery and three Major League Soccer teams. The Battery Challenge Cup is split into two weekends, with U8-U12 playing on February 17, 18, & 19 and U13 and above playing on February 23, 24 & 25. If you are registering a U8-U12 team, click the top registration link. If you are registering a U13+ team, click the bottom registration link.

**REGISTRATION DEADLINES ARE FEBRUARY 1 (U8-U12) AND FEBRUARY 8 (U13-U18)**

The Charleston Battery Youth Challenge Cup is a youth tournament that coincides with the Carolina Challenge Cup (CCC), a preseason professional tournament featuring the Charleston Battery and three Major League Soccer teams. The Youth Challenge Cup is split into two weekends, with U8-U12 playing on February 17, 18, & 19 and U13 and above playing on February 23, 24, & 25. More details below:

Dates:
February 17, 18, & 19 (U8-U12)
February 23, 24, & 25 (U13-U18)

Gender:
Boys and Girls

Level:
Recreation, Academy, Classic, Challenge, Premier. Other teams will be considered based on applications.

Registration Fees:
U8-U9 (7v7): $500/team
U10-U12 (9v9): $600/team
U13-U18 (11v11): $700/team

Registration includes three guaranteed matches, TEN TICKETS for Carolina Challenge Cup matches on 2/17 or 2/24, behind the scenes access to MLS training sessions, and Q & A sessions with MLS officials and college coaches. No tournament games will conflict with MLS games.

Matches Guaranteed:
All teams are guaranteed at least three matches

Tournament Facilities:
Matches will be hosted at Summerville Soccer Complex. Other tournament venues to be announced.

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#174048 - 12/28/17 06:17 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Charleston Battery Soccer Club has selected Derek Broadley as its first ever Youth Technical Director.

Broadley was chosen from thousands of applicants to lead the daily technical operations of CHS Battery SC. The Glasgow, Scotland native and U.S. citizen has a wealth of experience in varying levels of the game and has worked as a coach and a coach educator for over two decades.

Broadleyís resume is highlighted by a four-year stint as Crystal Palace Academy Director and a three-year stint as Bermuda Football Association Technical Director where he introduced a national academy program, restructured the national football leagues at every level from youth through senior, and helped the senior national team rise 36 places in the FIFA World Rankings while in his role. Broadley has a UEFA ďAĒ Licence and an English Football Association Academy Directorís License.

ďI am thrilled and honored to be appointed as the Charleston Battery Soccer Clubís first Technical Director,Ē said Broadley. ďIt is a fantastic feeling to be joining such a great club that is steeped in soccer tradition and that has such a long standing soccer history. Having gained many great experiences working in different countries, Iím excited to get started in Charleston working with some very experienced and high level soccer people who all are so passionate about growing the game of soccer in the Lowcountry.Ē

As Technical Director, Broadley will build educational programs, ensure the progress of player and coach development, and instill first team values throughout the club. Broadley will be immediately tasked with implementing a clear philosophy and pathway for the development of Charleston Battery Soccer Club players at all levels of the game.

ďWe were overwhelmed with the level interest and quality of candidates who applied for this role,Ē said Chief Operating Officer Mike Kelleher. ďUltimately we believe that Derek is the best fit; he can make an immediate impact as well as lay the foundation for the future of youth soccer in Charleston for years to come. To appoint someone of his caliber and experience as our first Youth Technical Director is a major coup for the Battery and the soccer community in this area.Ē

Charleston Battery Soccer Club recently announced it will send an Ď05 boys team to the Dallas Cup, one of the most prestigious youth tournaments in the world. Broadley will be instrumental in selecting the players for the Dallas Cup team. Tryouts for the Dallas Cup Team will take place at MUSC Health Stadium on January 6, 7, and 14. For more information, visit chsbatterysc.com/dallas-cup-team

Derek Broadleyís Career Highlights:

UEFA "A" Coaching License

Football Association Academy Directorís License

NSCAA Master Coach

Wrote four levels of National Qualifications (A, B, C, and D Licenses) on behalf of the Bermuda Football Association

Crystal Palace Academy Director

Developed and implemented curriculum for youth players from eight through senior level for the Bermuda Football Association

Reading Rage Soccer Club Academy Director and Head Coach of PDL team

Bermuda Football Association Technical Director

Knoxville Soccer Academy Director

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#174049 - 12/28/17 06:26 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Also, Christian Michner, women's coach of College of Charleston is leaving Mt Pleasant Soccer Club to be the Girls Director of Soccer.

The Battery are quickly transforming the club into one of a more professional training atmosphere from the current 'mom and pop' (no offense meant, I just don't know a better way to characterize it) one.

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#174064 - 01/12/18 01:58 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
Chantman Offline
Goal

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 482
The Lowcountry has need a "professional" run youth club for many years. Three cheers for them!

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#174066 - 01/12/18 06:41 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
USAMTP Offline
Bench

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 13
ďMom and popĒ. Lol.

Donít the Michnersí have youth playing children.?

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#174069 - 01/13/18 04:13 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
"Mom and pop". Indeed

some people seem to like it
_________________________
satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#174071 - 01/14/18 11:53 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
I knew some would take offense, but I didn't want to go too far into it.

Yes the Michners have children. I fail to see the relevance. So does Claudio Reyna.

Yes. Some, like it. But if we are being fair there a few options given distance, traffic, etc...

The point is, parents pay a lot of money to SSC. They are told all the coaches are "professionals" per their website. Yet these "professionals" in some cases never even played in High School let alone college.

There are no developmental goals clearly communicated at each age level. Do parents know what skill sets their children are supposed to have mastered at each age level? At SSC, my experience is no.

Coaches stay with the same team in some cases over its lifetime or several years. How is that a best practice? Professionally run organizations have coaches specialize at specific age levels.

These are things I am hoping for. It is not about parents coaching. Being a parent neither adds or subtracts to coaching ability. It is about the way this organization has not grown into the modern concepts of a club. Right now SSC is closer to being a more expensive version of the YMCA than it is to the RBNY youth club. If I am wrong, please enlighten me.

The people at SSC are very nice and have worked very hard. I am thankful for what they have done. But I also believe SSC can/should be stronger, more organized, and more clear in its expectations.

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#174073 - 01/14/18 08:34 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 160
Kudos to you for taking on this. I am interested to see how the battery develops. Certainly not to bash the good people over at SSC, but unfortunately they are a shell of what they once were. They have a ton of talent that started there, now playing for other clubs all over the lowcountry.....I really think you hit the nail on the head, when you compared to a high priced ymca club. I never thought of it that way,,, but you are 100% correct.

I am curious as to why the battery chose to start with the 05's at the Dallas Cup. With GPS and USAMP both offering the best 2 05 teams in the area and both already playing premier, it might be difficult to put together a tournament team that will be competitive at Dallas. The summerville 05's aren't even competitive in Classic. This should be interesting to see how it all turns out. I am a big fan of improving soccer overall in the lowcountry, so I really hope this takes off!

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#174074 - 01/14/18 09:30 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
I could be wrong, but I believe Dallas Cup team is open to players beyond SSC.

Thank you for the kind response. I want to reiterate that I believe the staff at SSC are terrific people and I know they have poured their time and energy into soccer with little thanks.

Like you alluded to though, SSC has been bleeding players (I believe over 100 to GPS NASA alone).

I want to believe this is step in the right direction.

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#174075 - 01/15/18 11:29 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 160
I think they have lost players to clubs all over,, but especially to GPS. Supposedly they had to dissolve their top 06 team because 3/4ths of the team left at Christmas.. It is just not a sustainable business model. I hope the Battery is able to make improvements in that area for sure. I still wonder why the Battery chose to send an 05 team to Dallas though.

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#174076 - 01/16/18 10:02 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Alister DeLong Offline
Goal

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 537
Loc: Lowcountry
The 05 team going to the Dallas Cup is open to any player from any club. Not just current SSC players.

The 06 team was doomed from the start. The person that was supposed to coach, went through tryouts and selected the team but then decided to go elsewhere and take his son with him. That would be hard for any team, at any club, to recover from.

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#174713 - 04/23/18 07:15 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
The Battery held their information meeting last night. Not a lot of new info came out, but these are the highlights:

The Directors role will increase but will not be coaching a team.

Coaches will be required to attend monthly training meetings.

Player profiles will be established and each player will have an assessment meeting with the coach and director at the end of the season.

The director made it clear his role is to develop players for the Battery and Fleet. That is his primary mission.

An important development is that the Battery announced that have cleared land on Daniel Island. This should be playable in October. Should hold 4-6 fields.

Additionally, the Battery have secured an agreement with Shipyard Parks in the Mt. Pleasant/Cainhoy area. These fields are artificial turf.

Summerville will eventually have some turf fields. No timeline available.

Pricing is in line with other clubs.

A season ticket to Battery games will be given to each player.

A player development academy will be created. Once approved, that team (u-13?) will play against similar teams. Other organizations already having these teams include the Pittsburg Riverhounds, Richmond Kickers, Tampa Bay Rowdies, and Atlanta United.

Thee was a fairly large crowd gathered. If I missed anything and anyone else was there, please feel free to add.

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#174856 - 05/04/18 04:34 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Just received today. Mercedes as a sponsor is sweet.

We are excited to launch this long-term youth soccer project in the Lowcountry! We encourage children and their parents to attend as many different club tryouts as they wish and select the club thatís the best fit for the player and family - please ask questions!


We are pleased to announce Mercedes Benz Vans as our first youth club sponsor - more details to follow!


Furthermore, we understand there have been a few announcements regarding the various leagues in the Charleston area - rest assured we have been working closely with all youth soccer governing bodies, including both the SCYSA (Coastal League) and US Club Soccer (Carolinaís Premier League) in order to find the most appropriate games program for each team and players. We are also working with similar-minded professional soccer organizations (such as Atlanta United, Tampa Bay Rowdies, and Richmond Kickers) to provide the appropriate games program for those players who desire and have the potential to perform at the highest level, be that via the USSF Development Academy or ECNL.


Finally, every player who attends our tryouts will receive a complimentary ticket to our upcoming doubleheader featuring the Charleston Battery and Charleston Fleet at MUSC Health Stadium on May 19. Come experience the highest level of soccer in the state of South Carolina.

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#174865 - 05/05/18 10:56 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Several current Battery players on the list. Don't know if they can coach but they will have an appeal. Dante in particular is very popular.

Jr. Academy:

2010 Boys (U9)
Randy Dahlmann
Chris Jones
Mike Kelleher
Jason Winn

2009 Boys (U10)
Jay Bolt
Jarad van Schaik
Elias Villagomez

2008 Boys (U11)
Joe Begley
Christian Michner
Skylar Thomas

2007 Boys (U12)
Sebastian Davis
Taylor Mueller
Gregg Russ

2010 Girls (U9)
Chris Cook
Megan Jones
Al Loli

2009 Girls (U10)
Taryn Floyd
Michelle Wilson
Dante Marini

2008 Girls (U11)
Chris Cook
John Slick
Nico Rittmeyer

2007 Girls (U12)
Doug Kifer
Mike Petry
Ian Svantesson


Charleston Battery Soccer Club is please to announce our coaching list for the 2018-2019 season. Our staff is full of highly qualified coaches, locally experienced coaches and current and former professional players, who will all work under the direction of our Youth Technical Director, Derek Broadley.

As teams form, coaches will be assigned based on our age specific pools.

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#174902 - 05/08/18 12:40 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
It doesn't specify the $, but I am curious how much improvement they can make and how it is allocated. Major efforts mentioned are prepping the new Daniel Island fields, turf at summerville and improving lighting. Announcement:

Charleston Battery Soccer Club has added Mercedes- Benz Vans, LLC (MBV) as the organizationís founding partner.

The partnership includes signage at the youth facilities and MUSC Health Stadium, special opportunities for Mercedes-Benz Vans employees, and use of the youth facility for corporate events and functions. Charleston Battery Youth Soccer Club will use the funds from the sponsorship to make improvements to its facilities in Summerville, Daniel Island and future site locations.

ďWeíre very excited about the partnership with Mercedes-Benz Vans,Ē said Charleston Battery chairman Eric Bowman. ďThe founding partnership will allow us to make much-needed upgrades to our youth facilities all over Charleston which will provide a better overall experience for young players in the area. Weíve been big proponents of supporting local business since the professional Club started in 1993 and weíre thrilled to be able to continue that with the youth club.Ē

Mercedes-Benz Vans, LLC is a plant in North Charleston, South Carolina that assembles Sprinter vans for the U.S. market under the brands Mercedes-Benz and Freightliner. Mercedes-Benz Vans, LLC announced in March 2015 that it will invest $500 million in construction of a new Sprinter production plant, in addition to an expansion of existing operations. In July 2016, MBV officially broke ground on the site of its new plant, .and the plant is expected to open in the second half of 2018. The MBV facility will provide up to 1,300 jobs by the end of the decade, and interested candidates can apply at www.MBVcharleston.com/career.

"As our operations in Charleston expand, so does our involvement with the local community, ď said Michael Balke, President & CEO of Mercedes-Benz Vans, LLC. ďOne of our focus areas for community engagement is health and wellness, and we hope this partnership inspires our communityís children to get active through the game of soccer.Ē

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#174922 - 05/09/18 08:05 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Based on preliminary observations, eval turnouts for the Battery have been very positive in Mt Pleasant but underwhelming in Summerville. I know of several kids that were trying out at two different clubs.

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#174923 - 05/09/18 11:36 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 160
You think itís the distance?

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#174924 - 05/10/18 08:58 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
I am not sure. Different parents have their own motivations. NASA is stronger right now and a couple of years ahead of where the Battery want to be.

Some parents may be turned off by cost, though it did not significantly change that much. Others, that lost the influence they once had may not like their newfound even playing field.

In the end, I think the kids will be about the same at the young end, but the older kids are (and have been) leaving in droves.

Once the Battery establishes the Development Academy team though, I think that will be a huge shift in their favor.

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#174926 - 05/10/18 10:48 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 160
I agree,, looks like a spot on assessment. I did see many familiar faces from SSC at my U-littles tryout. I think the establishment of a DA will help draw some players. It may take a while though. I would assume they would get a DA at the u-12 age first. Not sure how long it will take to add the older ages. There struggle will be keeping the kids as they age out of the DA.

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#174928 - 05/10/18 12:26 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
I personally think this will be the 'down' year. Too many built in advantages. Tryouts in Mt. Pleasant were at least double Summerville.

Word of mouth will be the difference. If the experience is positive, more kids will come, if not, they won't.

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#174932 - 05/10/18 10:52 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 160
Gps has a ton of talent at their younger tryouts. I knew this year was going to be a big year, but I was really really impressed. That being said, Iím sure some of the new kids are trying out at several clubs.

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#174940 - 05/11/18 02:31 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Quote:
Tryouts in Mt. Pleasant were at least double Summerville.


That makes a lot of sense
At least four (4) times more players in East Cooper than Summerville according to SCYS #
Charleston Battery is on Daniel Island
At least 6 of their JA coaches had CASC coaching cards so probably shifting some jersey colors as I described earlier (all good)

At one point in past we were very close to starting up a branch in Moncks Corner to offer our low cost alternative but didn't as we couldn't get any local folks foolish enough to do what we do.

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#175341 - 08/06/18 08:04 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Had our team meeting tonight. I was impressed by the professionalism of the club. A lot of details being addressed, but the biggest takeaway I noticed was the support the club is providing to parents and the development opportunities for the coaches.

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#175342 - 08/07/18 08:31 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
jahlion247 Offline
Bench

Registered: 07/24/18
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
Gps has a ton of talent at their younger tryouts. I knew this year was going to be a big year, but I was really really impressed. That being said, Iím sure some of the new kids are trying out at several clubs.


GPS does a great job of recruiting players from non-affiliated clubs. I would think most would stick.

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#175344 - 08/07/18 09:44 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
EastOak961 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 22
Where are their younger teams going to end up playing (if anyone knows )? Tournaments and friendly weekends?

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#175345 - 08/07/18 12:07 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Which clubs and what ages are you asking about?

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#175346 - 08/07/18 12:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: EastOak961]
EastOak961 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: EastOak961
Where are their younger teams going to end up playing (if anyone knows )? Tournaments and friendly weekends?


Battery, u12 and below.

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#175347 - 08/07/18 12:50 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
U12 is in the Jim Hudson 9v9. They play a statewide schedule to the US Club soccer league (Carolina's Premiere League) with similar competition (including some of the same teams). That schedule comes out in the next week and I believe it will be in a festival weekend format.

I've heard due to the CsPL, the teams u11 and below dont have a league but will be playing a 4 or 5 festival style weekends with maybe half in Charleston area

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#175348 - 08/07/18 12:53 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
They play a statewide schedule **similar** to the US Club soccer league (Carolina's...

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#175349 - 08/07/18 02:06 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
I don't think it is ironed out yet. I have seen some clubs in those age groups enter teams in the Coastal league (Chas Utd, Walterboro, KOSA, and Beach). I believe that is their intent at this point.

If the Battery decide to stay in house, I think those other clubs will really struggle to continue if there aren't any games to play.

This question was was raised and the Battery reps said they were committed to creating the best game day environment they can. It was emphasized that their philosophy on games at that age though is to assess prior training and guide future training.

The games are to be seen as an evaluation of the training, not the players at the younger ages. This may be a difficult idea for some parents to adjust to, but I think the kids will be fine as long as they get to play and fun.

On a side note. I know my sons team will play in local tournaments and the Battery is still willing to support local clubs. I will be interested to see if that is reciprocated at the Battery tournament(s).

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#175350 - 08/07/18 02:55 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
EastOak961 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
U12 is in the Jim Hudson 9v9. They play a statewide schedule to the US Club soccer league (Carolina's Premiere League) with similar competition (including some of the same teams). That schedule comes out in the next week and I believe it will be in a festival weekend format.

I've heard due to the CsPL, the teams u11 and below dont have a league but will be playing a 4 or 5 festival style weekends with maybe half in Charleston area


I think Coast is the only team in common (at the top level anyway). I would argue the competition is not that similar (outside of one or two teams) but that is opinion.

I like the festival format for U11 and below but knowing most parents, they want games and they want a concrete schedule (preferably yesterday). Unless the rest of the program is done very well and professionally, it will become a problem in the future I think.

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#175351 - 08/07/18 05:59 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
SC United is not in C'sPL?

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#175352 - 08/07/18 09:11 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
EastOak961 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
SC United is not in C'sPL?

Their first and second teams are. 3rd and 4th are in the Jim Hudson league.

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#175353 - 08/07/18 10:10 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Ah. I saw that it was SCU purple and then expanded to 2 teams: Premiere I and Premiere II. Didn't know what the names meant.

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#175356 - 08/09/18 08:22 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Festival days for SCYSA Coastal league are:
September 8
September 15
September 22
October 13
November 3

Jim Hudson to be announced later today

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#175357 - 08/09/18 09:54 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
I saw that yesterday and I don't like the idea that there are 3 dates in September and only one in October (which our team can't make anyway due to tournament schedule).

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#175358 - 08/09/18 10:50 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
The mixed bag of more travel, higher costs and schedule conflicts are going to be the new norm for all with the clubs split into two statewide leagues instead of 2 regional leagues. Certainly not good for the growth of the sport in the state.

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#175359 - 08/09/18 11:32 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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USAMP was one of the driving forces behind starting the CsPL. There has been much opinionating over whether or not the secrecy surrounding it's formation was meant to keep the SSC/CBSC teams from having games.

Whatever the real reason for the league's exclusivity, October 13 is the weekend of USAMPs Charleston Select shootout so I can see why SCYSA Coastal would assume none of its member teams would be busy that weekend since any team playing in it is directly funding a club that is a root of the headaches.

If you need other tournament options, I'd recommend considering the JIYSC tourny in mid-late November and/or the CBSC tournament later in October.

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#175361 - 08/10/18 10:12 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
U12 is in the Jim Hudson 9v9. They play a statewide schedule to the US Club soccer league (Carolina's Premiere League) with similar competition (including some of the same teams). That schedule comes out in the next week and I believe it will be in a festival weekend format.

I've heard due to the CsPL, the teams u11 and below dont have a league but will be playing a 4 or 5 festival style weekends with maybe half in Charleston area


I did see this morning the CBSC U11 and under joined the Coastal League. My son plays for MPRD and we were concerned about the lack of teams registered.

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#175362 - 08/10/18 10:26 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Yes, Battery teams were posted on the Coastal sites last night. CBSC has an additional U11 team playing in the u12 9v9 Jim Hudson league.


will MPRD be submitting teams, and if so, do you know how many?

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#175363 - 08/10/18 10:46 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
Yes, they are submitting teams. Unfortunately, I only know of my son's team and one other, because I know the coach. As I posted previously we already have an issue with the schedule dates though. Our coach has 2 other teams in the Open League and scheduling was last Sunday so regardless of what tournaments we are in, he has other conflicts. Hopefully it can all be worked out.

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#175369 - 08/14/18 01:34 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Yes, Battery teams were posted on the Coastal sites last night. CBSC has an additional U11 team playing in the u12 9v9 Jim Hudson league.


will MPRD be submitting teams, and if so, do you know how many?


MPRD registered 7 teams (1 each in Boys U9-U14 and 1 girls U12 team).

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#175471 - 10/01/18 06:04 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Went to the parent meeting last night. Main points put out were:

1. CBSC applied to play in the CPL in the spring. Club still feels they were deliberately excluded. If the application is denied, it wasnít clear what course of action the club would take, but public and grassroots pressure was mentioned.

2. The club currently has 41 teams and 38 coaches.

3. Mentioned that MLS may be changing their development academy process. If so, CBSC will not have to apply, but only meet criterion. Girls will enter ECNL. I did not catch timelines, ages or specifics on this.

4. For kids 12 and under, local play is emphasized, but for u13 and up, out of state travel will be necessary.

5. They are working to improve the fields in Summerville. Will have a timeline in December for the Daniel Island fields. Field ownership is seen as an imperative.

6. A challenge for coaches and parents is to focus on individual development, not team development. The value is in training, not the games. Then talked about how the club works to develop coaches and present curriculum.

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#175526 - 11/14/18 07:18 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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The newsletter came out last night.

"Our Youth Technical Director has introduced a video-based curriculum that is available and monitored by our age group
directors, to ensure that every player in our club is getting the correct information to play this great game of soccer. These video-based sessions are filmed by the Charleston Battery media staff to a very high standard and is another great reason to be partnered with a professional Soccer Club.
Having access to such a feature is not something that any other local club has and as we grow, this service will only get better."

Curious if this unique to CBSC in the Lowcountry. I am not so sure. I would think GPS would have something similar.

Also the club touted their "unique player profiling system." I know SSC did not do this, but do other clubs have their own profile system?

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#175527 - 11/14/18 08:06 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I think GPS franchises/affiliates up north had a player eval template available to coaches for end of year review, but haven't heard if/how they are used by coaches in SC.

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#175528 - 11/14/18 09:59 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I dont know about the player profiling system,, I do know that GPS has a curriculum that they follow. The coaches (at least the paid coaches) have staff development on it weekly. Im not sure about the coaches who arent full-time employees,,, I would assume they have something though. As for evals,,, they have a evaluation template they use,,, it may be hit or miss though.. As one son received an evaluation and the other did not. My friends at CBSC have been impressed with what they have seen so far,, so that sounds like good stuff coming from them.

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#175542 - 11/19/18 07:14 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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We had our last game this weekend, but will continue to practice. That is a departure from the old SSC where the season and practice ended with the last game. On this point, CBSC is backing up their talk by prioritizing player development over the playing of games.

For some of the parents, there was frustration in the results. Competitive for the first half, but changes for player development sake made us less competitive in the second half.

That said, the best team we played, had many more subs, and tactically were superior. They were fast, played with few touches and passed the ball with frequently. They were coached to win, played like it and it showed.

I could certainly see why a parent would be attracted to a team like that. However, I am not sure that that is the best method for player development. It seemed team development was more emphasized. Just my two cents.

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#175544 - 11/19/18 10:40 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
SharksFutbol Online   content
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Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
I think itís possible to have a focus on player development & it still produce a result on the field. Not necessarily winning, but a product that you can see just how good a player is on a team and how said team can look good collectively, be well coached to know how to play fundamentally sound football, and still be able to develop individually. Itís a fine balance, but I donít see it as an unachievable one. I know personally for my 2010 team, Iíve seen the player growth this season and, in turn, itís translated to getting much better results in games than what we were getting initially
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175586 - 12/11/18 01:39 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Hey, did CBSC ever hear if they were playing in the Carolina premier league for the Spring?

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#175604 - 12/29/18 07:14 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I haven't heard about CPsL application. Not sure if application was for spring 19 or fall 19? I'll try to find out more and post.

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#175605 - 12/29/18 08:54 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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During the Fall mid season parent forum, parents were told the Battery applied to play in CPL in the spring.

There was an application link on the CPL for the spring despite the fact that the entire year had already been scheduled for the existing teams. Not sure why. Makes the application link seem disingenuous.

At the end of Fall season Battery forum, no mention of the CPL was made.

It appears status quo will remain given the SCYSA Coastal website and dates for CBSC Challenge Cup vs dates of CPL games in the spring.

I am sure if CBSC applies to the CPL next year (Fall 2019) they will be warmly received with open arms.

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#175610 - 12/31/18 02:20 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Did any new clubs join the CPL for the spring 2019? The website has had an application:

(https://www.carolinaspremierleague.com/uploads/8/6/0/1/86016910/cpl_application__spring_2019-1.docx)

Did any one apply?

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#175612 - 12/31/18 06:40 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
No new clubs. As far as I know, new clubs are accepted for each fall season & not spring
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175613 - 01/01/19 10:42 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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The application is for spring 2019. The constant delays are meant to allow member clubs a supposed a marketing advantage over those who have been chosen to be omitted.

Let's hope in 2019 the folks involved in the member clubs and the organization behind it concern themselves less with the money they make from excluding children from their league and concern themselves more with the well being of children and their love of the sport.

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#175614 - 01/01/19 02:51 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: SharksFutbol]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
No new clubs. As far as I know, new clubs are accepted for each fall season & not spring


Not saying you are wrong coach, but this is C&P from the CPL website:

Please email completed Spring 2019 Applications to CPL League Director: sean@carolinaspremierleague.com

That link has been active since August 2018. Either a poorly written, long-standing typo or a complete falsehood. If the application is for next year, than Fall, not Spring, should be indicated.

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#175615 - 01/01/19 03:10 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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How did the Fall go for the non cpl teams? Were the games competitive?

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#175616 - 01/01/19 04:16 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Hard to say. In our division, most games were, but the teams donít play every one else. So while the teams are listed in one flight, they appear to be scheduled in way to maintain competitiveness.

The CBSC teams played each other, apparently 2x, but some those were not competitive, depending on who played who.

Honestly, the game schedule was the only drawback I saw going from SSC to CBSC. In every other meaningful way, CBSC has been an improvement. The CPL thing has been annoying, but it wonít stop CBSC from continuing into next year.

Now, if CBSC applies and is denied entry next year into CPL, then all bets are off. If they do enter, I do not see a drawback to being in CBSC with the possible exception of cost (which is totally fair depending on oneís circumstances).

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#175617 - 01/01/19 06:44 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
No new clubs. As far as I know, new clubs are accepted for each fall season & not spring


Not saying you are wrong coach, but this is C&P from the CPL website:

Please email completed Spring 2019 Applications to CPL League Director: sean@carolinaspremierleague.com

That link has been active since August 2018. Either a poorly written, long-standing typo or a complete falsehood. If the application is for next year, than Fall, not Spring, should be indicated.


Agreed. Not sure what thatís about, but I can tell you that no new clubs were approved in the spring. I may be wrong on this, but we were told clubs start in the fall so that it doesnít mess up the year schedule already set. Again, I could be wrong. Iím just a coach in a club so I donít have too much info from the big folks lol
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175618 - 01/01/19 07:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
How did the Fall go for the non cpl teams? Were the games competitive?


Like CsPL, there was definitely uneven competition last season. Hopefully both leagues account for that in the spring schedule. It was also a bit monotonous with all the CBSC teams but for the young ones that was fine. The tournaments were a good chance to test the club training and I was pleased with the results.

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#175619 - 01/01/19 09:43 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Now that CBSC has had a year of playing, I would imagine that They would be admitted to the cpl league next year. I would hope so. Have they decided what level some of their older teams will be playing or mentioned anything else about being awarded DA status? I donít see the older teams listed yet.... just curious

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#175620 - 01/02/19 09:22 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
How did the Fall go for the non cpl teams? Were the games competitive?


Like CsPL, there was definitely uneven competition last season. Hopefully both leagues account for that in the spring schedule. It was also a bit monotonous with all the CBSC teams but for the young ones that was fine. The tournaments were a good chance to test the club training and I was pleased with the results.


From what I was told by SCYSA, the matches should be more competitive in the Spring. With all of the movement over the summer, they didn't know how good teams were going to be and there were a lot of scheduling issues, as you know. They want to do divisions in the Spring and the entire schedule will be complete before the season starts with the first set of games on February 2nd.

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#175636 - 01/07/19 10:20 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: SharksFutbol]
JenFal89 Online   content
Bench

Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
No new clubs. As far as I know, new clubs are accepted for each fall season & not spring


Not saying you are wrong coach, but this is C&P from the CPL website:

Please email completed Spring 2019 Applications to CPL League Director: sean@carolinaspremierleague.com

That link has been active since August 2018. Either a poorly written, long-standing typo or a complete falsehood. If the application is for next year, than Fall, not Spring, should be indicated.


Agreed. Not sure what thatís about, but I can tell you that no new clubs were approved in the spring. I may be wrong on this, but we were told clubs start in the fall so that it doesnít mess up the year schedule already set. Again, I could be wrong. Iím just a coach in a club so I donít have too much info from the big folks lol


I wonder if the link for the Spring Application was for U13 and U14. Those age groups are now listed on the CPL schedule page which was not the case in the Fall.

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#175637 - 01/07/19 10:40 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: JenFal89]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Originally Posted By: JenFal89
Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
[quote=Shamrock Rovers][quote=SharksFutbol]No new clubs. As far as I know, new clubs are accepted for each fall season & not spring


...

I wonder if the link for the Spring Application was for U13 and U14. Those age groups are now listed on the CPL schedule page which was not the case in the Fall.



My understanding is that single teams/yrs can't apply to join, or qualify by play-in. You apply to the league as a club for all the age groups and once you are in you don't need to apply for additional years. Happy to hear otherwise if its not the case.

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#175638 - 01/07/19 10:55 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Im sure that is probably the case of individual teams not being able to join. I know part of reason the CPL was formed was to allow clubs to have tournament style weekends for all their teams.

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#175639 - 01/07/19 11:12 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Cainhoy Athletic can answer the questions about the application for clubs v years since he/his club are on the board.

SCYSA has festival weekends so that is not the reason for CsPL.

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#175640 - 01/07/19 11:21 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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The scysa came out with their festival weekends after the carolina premier league was formed. It wasnt announced before. It may not be the only reason, but clubs being in control of their own schedule certainly plays a big part of it.

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#175641 - 01/07/19 11:25 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I agree that the clubs in CsPL may have wanted more control of many things, scheduling being one of them. And I know SCYSA can be very slow to respond to schedule requests. That said, if that were an important reason, it no longer exists.

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#175646 - 01/07/19 12:44 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I guess the scysa does it as well. I dont see my u-littles team ever going back though. I know they faced better competition as a whole this fall than they did the last 2 years in the coastal league and they were able to play teams their own age. With the addition of u-13 and u-14 to the cpl, I would assumed the plan is to eventually have the teams play in the league exclusively...but who knows????

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#175649 - 01/07/19 01:36 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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The reason why there may have been better competition for some of the teams is because CsPL did not let the best teams play up an age, like SCYSA, for better or worse. That meant some teams(that played up a year in SCYSA) had worse competition this past fall and some other teams(that played in-age in SCYSA) had better competition. And since the schedules were made so far in advance, there is no way to rectify those discrepancies for the spring. So there are still the same competition issues like any other league (look at the Tables).

I'll be interested to see what comes of the u13 and u14 leagues if they happen.

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#175650 - 01/07/19 01:57 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I guess it depends on how you look at it. I didnt mean competitive from a score aspect.. Luckily,, the score doesn't mean a whole lot to me anymore .. My son's team was one that always played up. They have lost a few games over the years because they played less skilled older teams from the area that were simply bigger and faster. The entire goal of some of those teams was to knock it up the field as far as they could and have the bigger kids run it down...Luckily,, as they get older and move to 11v11 and a bigger field, the teams that tend to just whack it and run, tend to relegate themselves

.. I think they benefited more and certainly enjoyed it more by playing the top teams from clubs like Discoveries or SCUFC at their own age. The soccer was certainly better and they were able to see teams that they wouldn't have ever seen in the coastal league outside of tournaments.

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#175652 - 01/07/19 07:28 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Glad to hear we are on the same page, at least for the kids playing in the younger leagues where the place you finish isn't required for the team to advance. Most of the parents and coaches I've seen in the CsPL (and pretty much everywhere) seem to live and die by the score of their 9 year old kid's game.

The teams that depend solely on "kick and run" do tend to fall off. On the flip side, teams that force kids to pass-pass-pass don't give kids a chance to fail on the dribble (learn to beat someone on the dribble), which is also a required skill.

Based on the fall, looks like the reason why there has been such a lack of participation by clubs like SCUFC and Discoveries in local Charleston tournaments is because you play them in this league, like you say. That has its benefits and drawbacks. We used to just see them in tournaments instead of the league. USAMP and JIYSC are the only ones who run local tournaments, so it really only hurts them. I think GPS used to play those teams in tournaments as well, so it is six of one, half dozen the other for you too.

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#175659 - 01/09/19 10:39 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Not sure where you are getting your information from but point of clarity.

Cainhoy Athletic is a member club of CPL. Nothing more.

I personally certainly don't want any additional soccer administrative functions or positions and would decline any invite from anyone asking to join anything (trust me I'm busy enough).

Having said that, we are a large organization with an appropriate voice on league matters (whether with CPL or SCYS) and like to think we can apply some influence to provide better services for our membership (as we see better).

I did not write or approve league policies or bylaws (for any league) and would refer anyone to the League administrator for policy questions.
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#175661 - 01/09/19 01:40 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I saw a picture the the Directors of the League and I thought I saw you among them.

I also thought you were the one praising the local control of the league and that it wasn't run by a guy who was an administrator living in Massachusetts.

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#175662 - 01/09/19 01:42 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Perhaps it was just the Executive directors of the clubs and not the Directors of the league.

Do y'all not vote on who joins and when?

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#175663 - 01/09/19 02:07 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Oh yes, I was at that meeting, as I will be at the Presidents Workshop in Columbia with SCYS on March 2nd (if I can get there by 8am).

I was invited to represent CASC interests and helps support my earlier point. You have not seen me in a picture of a Coastal League meeting as we have never had one in 8 years.

If you had taken your camera to a LSYSA league meeting (forerunner of Coastal), you would have seen me.

I like the opportunity for local input on our leagues for sure.
_________________________
satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175664 - 01/09/19 02:11 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Who cotes on when/if teams can join the league?

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#175665 - 01/09/19 02:11 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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*votes

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#175666 - 01/09/19 02:16 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Loc: Cainhoy, SC
This is one of those policy questions best answered by League administrator. I would hate to provide incorrect or misleading information on this public board.

Much as I would refer you to SCYS leadership if you asked me how they accepted new member clubs.
_________________________
satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175684 - 01/16/19 04:57 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic
This is one of those policy questions best answered by League administrator. I would hate to provide incorrect or misleading information on this public board.

Much as I would refer you to SCYS leadership if you asked me how they accepted new member clubs.


So I decided to reach out to the League administrato, Sean Carey. I asked the following in email:

Sean,

I was referred to you in trying to determine a few things about the CPL.

1. There is an application to join the league for Spring 2018.

A. Is that for any age group?
B. Did any clubs apply?

2. How are clubs determined if they may enter in the future?

3. Is there a vote on new membership, and if so, who votes?

4. If a vote is required, what is the threshold for approval?

That was one week ago, but thus far no response. Perhaps he was too busy, hadnít gotten to it yet, or overlooked the email.

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#175685 - 01/16/19 10:29 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Do you think the member clubs could/ would vote in other clubs?

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#175686 - 01/17/19 08:38 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I'll treat that as two questions.

Ask to the question 'Do (we) think member clubs COULD vote in other clubs': Cainhoy Athletic is a member club and seems so be suggesting that members don't vote. Either that or he is being coy and they get to vote but he just doesn't want to be transparent about it.

As to the question 'Do we think the member clubs WOULD vote in other clubs': They would if they wanted additional, appropriate competition for their teams; if they wanted less travel(costs) for their parents; if they had faith in the value of their product.

To me, the league motto seems to be 'clubs first, money driven' and definitely not "players first, club driven".

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#175690 - 01/17/19 09:42 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
OK, biting...

Just because I want to dismiss any suggestion I am trying to hide anything toward a given end. Having said that, coy is a probably correct in characterizing how I answered. By using club crest and making no secret of my identity, I don't think it is fair to me to suggest anything less than transparency. I have struggled with using club moniker on here as usually I am only articulating my personal views that do not always align directly with our broader organization/full board and certainly include issues that are of no import to the Club. I've even had words used on this board used in litigation and negotiations so I really should know better and just shut up. Having said all that, I think an open dialog is healthy and would encourage everyone to share what they can, use a real identity, and leverage this chat board as a vehicle for additional communication, understanding and sometimes advice.

I answered earlier that we have an 'appropriate voice on league matters' in all leagues we participate in, and that would include voting on items where membership approval is required. Just like SCYS and Coastal league, I would not expect being asked to vote for much in operating a league (if anything) but new membership is one and a difference form SCYS (where new membership is approved at Organization level, not Club)

For your last comment, our membership will receive better value from CPL than Coastal League by a few dimes. We certainly will not be any richer at a club level by choosing CPL this year over Coastal.

Finally a piece of advice, most of you here are either coaches or members of a youth Club. If you do not get what you are looking for from this board or the league, ask your club leadership what they know.
_________________________
satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175692 - 01/17/19 10:44 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Thank you Dave. I truly appreciate you being as open as candid as you can.

One reason I ask the questions and post about this subject is due to the secrecy in general about something for which secrecy makes no sense. This is not national security or a protected trade secret. I also post because I am passionate about this sport and I question decisions that I see as not beneficial to the overall game, but for a protected few.

This is about the formation of an exclusive league, a country club if you will, where members pick and choose who else may be a part of the club. Like it or not, the analogy is fairly appropriate.

When a club is perceived as not having sufficient value to add to the league, the club is denied and that denies kids an opportunity or a lesser opportunity at best. Perhaps the leagues are separate but equal. To say they should switch clubs despite the potential hardship, well, that is clearly about business more than kids.

If a club is denied entrance because another club sees them as a threat to their bottom line/existence/etc... that is a business decision that would require twisted logic to say it benefits kids ((which kids? Certainly not the excluded ones). Why not improve your own product instead of excluding competition?

Just my opinion, but I understand why the 'haves' are happy and 'have nots' are not. I think a lot of 'have nots' would simply like to know the 'price' and process for admission to the country club. Oh yeah, and if certain types of clubs need not apply.

Yes I know some of the rhetoric I posted is incendiary and thus I may get flamed, but chances are there will be few actual answers in the fire, just heat.

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#175693 - 01/17/19 12:01 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Thanks for shedding some light on this.

Has there been a vote (not asking how you voted) on the applications for the Carolina's Premiere League for Spring 2019? Fall 2019?

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#175694 - 01/17/19 02:11 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Will not answer issues/questions/policy questions that are not mine to discuss or owned by CASC.
Ironically I would be more inclined to tell you how I voted (if in fact I did)

see above: If you do not get what you are looking for from this board or the league, ask your club leadership what they know.
_________________________
satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175696 - 01/17/19 02:56 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
While there's still an obvious agenda in some of these posts regarding CBSC/CPL, I'd really tell you all to take Cainhoy's advice on some of these matters & ask your club leadership and see what they tell you
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175697 - 01/17/19 03:19 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
That actually made me chuckle out loud.

The fresh breeze of transparency. Breathe it in.

These are the same responses non CsPL members get from the league. Namely, a non-response or delay, delay ,....

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#175698 - 01/17/19 03:59 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: SharksFutbol]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
While there's still an obvious agenda in some of these posts regarding CBSC/CPL, I'd really tell you all to take Cainhoy's advice on some of these matters & ask your club leadership and see what they tell you


Guilty as indirectly charged. However, if someone is from a non-CPL club, what can their club leadership tell them other than opinion or conjecture? Coach, it is disingenuous to imply that non-CPL parents, coaches, etc...can get the answers internally from their own club. Do you think Beach United, CBSC, ECSC, Walterboro, Chas Utd, etc... were at the initial meetings of CPL formation? How would any of them know enough to give well informed answers?

What do we say when asked by a parent, "Why aren't we in the CPL playing against the other big clubs?"
Club says something like, "uh, we were not invited to join the CPL."
Parent, "why not?"
Club, "crickets."

The only people that have the answers are those Club Directors/Boards in the CPL and its Director. The exception would be those clubs that were there and declined to join. Are there any clubs that did decline after being engaged to join and went to the meetings? The fact that Cainhoy has the guts to engage even a little bit is commendable and respect him for it.

So yes, there may be an "agenda," but that does not make the questions posed less legitimate. The formation of the CPL has created unnecessary division. Not because of its existence, but because of its exclusionary practice and lack of transparency. Instead of answering questions in order to maintain its opaqueness, we get 'conspiracy theorist' insults to deflect from actual, truthful answers.

By how the CPL chose to form and exclude others, hundreds of kids are not getting the best experience they could have. The CPL told clubs they could apply to play in the Spring of 2019. The application was posted in August. At least one club applied and was told, we aren't taking new clubs for Spring 2019 because the season has already been scheduled out. Then why have the application and make that an option? I am throwing my BS flag on that answer.

So I think it is fair to ask: Will the CPL open their doors to new clubs? What is the criteria? Shouldn't parents know that before choosing where their kids will play in the future? Is that really too much to ask?

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#175699 - 01/17/19 04:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Shamrock, youíve made some very good & legitimate points. As Iíve mentioned before, I donít know why they put a spring application up when, from what I gathered from the information that was given to us coaches who asked, there werenít any plans to add any new clubs in the spring. I do know that in the fall they will take new clubs & im sure CBSC is on top of the list as far as clubs wanting to get in.

I canít speak on the league or the clubs involved. I know that personally Iíve been pretty content w/ the CPL & expect it to grow with new clubs in the fall. While I donít think itís for every club in the state (and thatís a didcssuiom I think has been had on this site before), I do think if a club fits what the league is looking for & applies and meets the requirements, then they should join and hopefully provide quality teams to maintain the level of play for each division the league offers.

Should any club be able to apply and be given a fair lol to join? Absolutely, and I think that to be the case. Should every club that applies be allowed? Nope. As unfair as it may sound, some clubs wouldnít be able to compete in the league & would probably end up hurting their club more than help. Iím sure club directors around the state can view their clubs & figure out which league best suits what theyíre trying to accomplish.

Iím all for competition & there being more than one way to skin a cat. Iím also one for fairness to the gameís development in the state. Iím curious to see what club(s) join the CPL in the fall, and I wouldnít be surprised one bit if a particular club becomes a part.

In the meantime, weíll continue this dialogue. Just donít ask me any questions because if Cainhoy, whoís a boss man, canít answe them.....then I DEFINITELY canít answer them lol
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175700 - 01/17/19 04:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Last year coaches at the GPS, Cainhoy and USAMP actively engaged in "where will you play" threats to the kids and parents. Our experience with the training and communication continues to be far better than when we were at those clubs, so not being in the league doesn't bother me as much as the grown men putting their love of their youth soccer patches above that of the local kids and parents. Again, driven out of fear of the shortcomings in their own product.

Unless they decide about Fall 2019 before the end of April, they wont be able to threaten kids with that this year.

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#175701 - 01/17/19 04:29 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
There are currently clubs in CPL that can't compete (I judge that by scores and conversations with friends who have kids in the leagues)and sometimes don't even show up.

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#175702 - 01/17/19 04:33 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
There are currently clubs in CPL that can't compete (I judge that by scores and conversations with friends who have kids in the leagues)and sometimes don't even show up.


My team got killed first month of the league (like double digit losses).......and then we got better & results were either in our favor or 1-2 goal losses. Also, thereís been teams that have been promoted or relegated based on the results in the fall. Not sure about teams no showing since my particular club didnít have those issues on any age group, but I donít know that a club in total canít compete. Maybe a few teams playing too high or too low, but thatís why they give clubs freeom to promote/relegate teams to give them a more competitive schedule based on their level
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175703 - 01/17/19 04:45 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
I'd say we went in a little conservatively. Meaning we probably placed teams too low and won more than we lost at a club level. Promoting a number of teams for spring should help.

And I'd like to apologize if any coaches threatened players or parents last summer. We certainly helped our coaches understand which clubs/teams were moving and why it made sense that we accept our place in the CPL, but if that in turn, moved to direct threats or anchors restricting individual choice, was not our intent.

We do not hold players or teams against their will and release anyone at any time (without reason) that does not want to be part of our organization. Similarly we do not ask coaches to sign non compete or long term contracts and are free to move on as it best serves their needs.

I am certain other clubs provide a much richer experience and better administrative support than we can on our nonprofit/volunteer basis so accept readily any criticism in that area as charged. Our proposition or popularity I'd like to think is based on value. Do you get your money's worth? If not, we should release anyone who wants to move on and we will.
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175704 - 01/17/19 06:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
Goal Kick

Registered: 12/22/17
Posts: 152
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
Last year coaches at the GPS, Cainhoy and USAMP actively engaged in "where will you play" threats to the kids and parents. Our experience with the training and communication continues to be far better than when we were at those clubs, so not being in the league doesn't bother me as much as the grown men putting their love of their youth soccer patches above that of the local kids and parents. Again, driven out of fear of the shortcomings in their own product.

Unless they decide about Fall 2019 before the end of April, they wont be able to threaten kids with that this year.


I can confirm this happened as well with at 2/3 of the clubs mentioned. This certainly looked like a pre-emotive and calculated move then, and more so now. The kids on our team personally experienced and we lost a couple. One did say if the Battery got a DA team, they be back though.

Coach G, I hope you are right. I also hope that those decisions are made before parents are asked to choose where to play. One of those clubs mentioned above used a Ďhard sellí tactic giving only 24 hours after evals to commit or risk losing your spot. Thatís cold.

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#175705 - 01/17/19 09:30 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Originally Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic
I'd say we went in a little conservatively. Meaning we probably placed teams too low and won more than we lost at a club level. Promoting a number of teams for spring should help.


Didnt you say schedules were set and that's why teams couldn't join for spring?

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#175706 - 01/17/19 09:46 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Originally Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic

And I'd like to apologize if any coaches threatened players or parents last summer. We certainly helped our coaches understand which clubs/teams were moving and why it made sense that we accept our place in the CPL, but if that in turn, moved to direct threats or anchors restricting individual choice, was not our intent.

We do not hold players or teams against their will and release anyone at any time (without reason) that does not want to be part of our organization. Similarly we do not ask coaches to sign non compete or long term contracts and are free to move on as it best serves their needs.


Without having someone performing the role of Director of Coaching, there is no consistent and enforced messaging or training the coaches have to follow. The should already know better. They should also be trained to ensure they know better

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#175707 - 01/17/19 09:50 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
Corner Kick

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
Originally Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic
I am certain other clubs provide a much richer experience and better administrative support than we can on our nonprofit/volunteer basis so accept readily any criticism in that area as charged. Our proposition or popularity I'd like to think is based on value. Do you get your money's worth? If not, we should release anyone who wants to move on and we will.


Let's not conflate non-profit with volunteering. The term Non-profit has lost any meaningful tie to charity and volunteering.

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#175708 - 01/17/19 10:12 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
SharksFutbol Online   content
Brace

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Originally Posted By: scsoccerfan123D
Last year coaches at the GPS, Cainhoy and USAMP actively engaged in "where will you play" threats to the kids and parents. Our experience with the training and communication continues to be far better than when we were at those clubs, so not being in the league doesn't bother me as much as the grown men putting their love of their youth soccer patches above that of the local kids and parents. Again, driven out of fear of the shortcomings in their own product.

Unless they decide about Fall 2019 before the end of April, they wont be able to threaten kids with that this year.


I can confirm this happened as well with at 2/3 of the clubs mentioned. This certainly looked like a pre-emotive and calculated move then, and more so now. The kids on our team personally experienced and we lost a couple. One did say if the Battery got a DA team, they be back though.

Coach G, I hope you are right. I also hope that those decisions are made before parents are asked to choose where to play. One of those clubs mentioned above used a Ďhard sellí tactic giving only 24 hours after evals to commit or risk losing your spot. Thatís cold.


I canít speak for any club but the one I work in & we didnít have those tactics. We also arenít in a super competitive area like Charleston. Regardless, I donít ageee with that tactic of trying to keep players.

Agreed Shamrock. Hopefully the league will have made & publish their decision of any changes regarding clubs before tryout season. Until coach then, letís continue the banter 😁
_________________________
Misael Garzon
May River HS Boys Varsity Head Coach
mgarzon1217@gmail.com

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#175710 - 01/18/19 03:33 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

Corner Kick

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Ouch, sorry for delay, just dusting myself off a bit...

For 123D...

If ever I said teams couldn't join CPL because of set schedules, I do not recall. Furthermore if I did, I must be wrong (and certainly not the first time) since we asked for some changes between fall and spring. In fact as I have said numerous times, I will not say anything about league policy or decision making we do not own (i.e not CASC) so would be surprised if I did say that.

You are correct our messaging does not run through a DOC 'per se'. Important (administrative) messaging at our club runs through team managers and coaches (usually from Board/President) and in this case (summer 2018 CPL messaging) was well shared through in-person meetings in local hotel/watering holes and internal FAQ / written material to help those in team leadership roles share information with their families what was changing. And why CASC had opted to join the CPL for our Junior Academy program (about 40% membership).

Again I apologize if any of these folks jumped to threats or falsehoods directed at other clubs or holding hostage players. Our FAQ even included advice to refer folks to their current leadership if asked by external parties about 'foreign' clubs and what they were doing (we tried to make the point its not our business).

On nonprofit/volunteer. My point was that our fee structure limits what we can, and do provide to our membership. Sorry for conflating IRS and State reporting definitions with that point. All I was trying to say is that other clubs have better administrative support than we do and willingly cede that.

If you want to discuss anything else about our club or policies, feel free to reach out privately. It is certainly not for everyone, but we feel we have a market or need to serve that is looking for lower cost option with access to quality competition but to do that, we have to sacrifice a few things, usually seen or done better at other organizations. Please don't try and compare us to USA/MP, CESA, SCUFC, DSC, CBSC, etc. simply apples and oranges.
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#175711 - 01/19/19 10:38 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Thanks for clarification.

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#175714 - 01/22/19 07:13 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
To confirm then, all Cainhoy coaches are are volunteer? If so, I'll help to stop the rumor that some coaches of the "better" teams at Cainhoy are compensated.

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#175716 - 01/22/19 08:24 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Its not about better or worse. Its about age/level of play.

Our club budgets and staffs differently at different levels.

Micro Academy teams are all volunteers (U4-U8)

Junior Academy teams are coached by volunteer team coaches, but augmented by professional staff once per week.
Sometimes we find ourselves short of qualified volunteers and do on rare occasion underwrite a coach to take a group of players who would otherwise be turned away (but these circumstances are pretty rare and we pay a pittance)

Premier Program (U13-U18) are coached by professional coaches (paid).
In reality, many of these coaches are also happy to volunteer and offer what stipend we budget toward team fees, tournies, additional equipment, etc to help offset parent costs
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175717 - 01/22/19 08:51 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
To illustrate my point above (about better or worse), our lowest level U13/U14 team in Coastal league will receive the same amount ($) as our highest performing Challenge team.

All our coaches require the same level of licensing (by rule) as any other club operating under the various sanctioning bodies and CASC also compensates our coaches for any in person or National D license education taken. Our product is as much about developing future coaches and entering into competitive levels, as it is about helping players take that next step.

While at it, we also compensate or pay for referee classes from time to time for members wanting to take the grade 8/9 class to help shore up population of this vital body.

Most this information is laid out on our website under the various Program tabs. Look in the training section - guess no one reads that and people always amaze me how they generally assume the worse. Please do help by pointing folks to our website and program descriptions to help set a correct understanding.

We also compensate specialty trainers and coaches for niche classes/clinics like goalkeeping and other directed clinics delivered from time to time. These are always highly qualified and experienced coaches with Pro, club and High School backgrounds (on a par or better than many other clubs I'd say).
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175721 - 01/22/19 12:16 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 341
To sum:
Age 3-7 =volunteer coach
Age 7-12 =volunteer coach
Age 12+ =not volunteer coach

I'll say not having paid coaches from 3-11 is a good deal for folks looking to keep costs down and don't want to utilize MPRD.

It's tough for parents to tell from any club what the actual costs are from their website(incl Cainhoy) except for those that give a generic sample of costs(e.g. club fees + XYZ league fees + 12 games of referee + 1 home tourny + 1 away tourny + coaches fee) and include all fees associated with that generic sample.

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#175722 - 01/22/19 12:18 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Posts: 341
* plus kit(s) fees

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#175723 - 01/22/19 01:48 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
Slight correction, but in general fair summary (like I said website should explain this well enough)
Age 3-7 =volunteer coach
Age 7-12 =volunteer coach + professional tech training
Age 12+ =not volunteer coach

Also agree with commentary on full disclosure of pricing. This is the hard part and one where your parents may have a different experience from team to team with us.

We chose to separate fixed and variable costs very early and will continue to do so.

Rationale is that two teams may have very different expectations or aspirations for their players. Some might be satisfied with 1-2 tournaments a season/year and others may want 3 or 4.
Similarly league entry fees vary by age/parent org/level of competition, etc., and ref fees dramatically change by age and level of competition (1 or 3 man crews, number of games, etc.)
Have to imagine that is the same at every club. Some teams will want, or qualify for more tournaments and even scrimmages. Doubt any organization would restrict all teams to the exact same schedule but OK for them, if they do. We will not, we like to give our coaches/teams choice.

We are not generally a business, and so as such do not promote camps, clinics, etc or host/offer futsal or tournaments as these are all often vehicles used to drive more, and year round income for those operations that need it. So we do not ask or urge teams to enter any tournaments, but instead leave that decision entirely up to each team. The entry cost for these can vary, not to mention travel expectations, etc.

Good point on uniforms. We have a 2 year rotation and work with Lloyd's soccer each cycle to provide a reasonably prices outfit, and skip all the non-essentials. For the last 3 rotations we have also worked hard at club level to provide sponsors for all warm up/training jerseys at no cost to families. I have heard our ask for uniforms is about a third of two other local operations.

At the very heart of our operating cost model is an expectation that Junior Academy/Premier program children contribute exactly the same to the club at every level for fixed costs (largest being rents and landscaping). Every child contributes the same regardless of age or level. What changes in cost between these two programs is the amount budgeted for training/coaches and for Junior Academy, league (CPL) fees are included where as we exclude for U13+ as the (SCYS) State League entry fees vary a lot depending on level.
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175725 - 01/22/19 02:27 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
This blurb below is how we try and help explain costs when inviting players to join in May, 2018. This is one example for a U13 age group targeting SCSCL play.
We also add similar messaging to the actual registration process so that no one registers online without some warning that additional costs will come.

The more I think about it, thanks for your concern, we might see if we can do better in this regard for next year (on our website) to provide a little more help upfront.

Anyway, this may help understand what you will expect to pay for a top level Statewide team with us.

------------------
Dear Parents

You can now register online and finalize your application for the 2018/19 soccer year.


A note about fees, club costs and team (individual) costs.


I trust you will recognize the value we offer in this regard, but like to be as transparent as possible about all the likely costs ahead of you.


CLUB FEES upon registration include

$75 annual registration - covers administration, insurance, and SCYS pass through costs

$275 per season (fall and spring) club fees - covers rents, landscaping, and coaching stipend


You can pay this in one go ($625) upfront, or in two installments ($350 now and $275 in January).

You can select payment plan on checkout.


TEAM FEES

We will collect these later and will include team specific costs for league entry fee, Coach travel expenses, and referee fees - split evenly for all players (budget ~ $100)


TOURNAMENT FEES

We will likely enter two (2) tournies per season (one local and one out of town). These cost $40-$50 each plus travel (for out of town)


UNIFORM

Cost of our uniform package runs around $130 each (includes home and away kit and good for 2 years)

Good news is that CASC will secure sponsors to provide us a free training jersey
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175726 - 01/22/19 05:51 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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So annually: 625 + 200 + 100 + $65 = ~$990 for a u13 SCSCL team playing 2 tournies. Thats a straight forward way for parents to understand costs.

Are there other teams that have higher paid coaching that would make the price increase?

Are there some teams that practice more than 2 nights a week that would make the price increase?

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#175729 - 01/23/19 12:59 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 315
Loc: Cainhoy, SC
That pricing is what I would describe as rack rate or MSRP. Would need to offset any team sponsorship dollars available, or team fundraising efforts but yes, the math looks right.

Also need to consider whether any club scholarships/aid are in play. We have an honor system in that regard (if you need help, ask and we'll offer without undue scrutiny).

'Are there other teams that have higher paid coaching that would make the price increase?'

Not at club level. All teams/coaches are paid the same based on a very simple (player based) algorithm

'Are there some teams that practice more than 2 nights a week that would make the price increase?'

Possibly I guess, most caches I know (including myself) would not ask for additional dollars for adding extra activities or off-season sessions, etc. But it is possible some might (as a 'private' enterprise) or add soccer training beyond CASC interest (like winter/summer futsal) that could drive up costs at a team/individual level. I'd like to better understand this line of questioning as it does raise an internal alarm bell. If you know of a specific case where the family is unhappy, I strongly encourage you to have them reach out to me.
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satus quod perago validus - start and finish strong

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#175731 - 01/23/19 01:44 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I'm just trying to understand costs associated with playing at different clubs.

I'll take a stab at some other local ones based on what I've experienced and/or friends have. Those clubs can hopefully respond for sake of clarity as you have. Thanks for your willingness to do so.

When you say "At the club level", what does that mean? Individual teams can pay more for coaches, but that's on a team by team basis?

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#175733 - 01/23/19 01:59 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Loc: Cainhoy, SC
It is not unheard of in the soccer world to have 'maverick' coaches or individuals try and profit outside of club managed compensation and fee structure. I'd describe this privateering as suspect and/or malevolent if simply increasing an hourly or base pay activity (nickle and dime). Why I smelled a rat with line of questioning.

I know of two examples in our club history where this happened (these coaches are now elsewhere in 'better' clubs).

If they are providing additional services and effort to the team beyond what is negotiated and understood (in registration), then like I said above it might happen at team level and would likely warrant additional fees.

What I mean is that we (CASC) pay the exact same amount per player to each coach in U13+ regardless of divisional placement. In the same way we charge or expect the exact same fees for club operations.
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#175734 - 01/23/19 02:03 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Sounds good.

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#175735 - 01/23/19 03:11 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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GPS has different prices depending on the age and level of the team... The 05/06 age group was the most expensive. $1225 for the year. That covers registration, coaches fees, futsal training 1 night a week at EFC, winter futsal league fees in the EFC league and tournament fees (up to 4 tournaments).....

Uniform was probably $200 ish for new player. Much cheaper for a returning player.

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#175736 - 01/23/19 03:17 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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For clarity's sake on my own part, I had no idea about your past coaching issues. They should not have done that if they knew it was against club rules. Happy to hear that you stood firm on your principles.

That said, did the parents find value in their extra pay? Of so, did they communicate that and/or followed the coaches to the new club? Again, don't know what happened but hope it worked out ok for the parents & kids.

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#175737 - 01/23/19 03:33 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Just like players, coaches don't always work out for respective clubs. Each have their own motivation, and in our case, I think it fair to say at least some parents felt it was a 'bait and switch' based on information I received and felt unduly pressured to pony up at quite an intimate level.

Whether they follow or not usually is the result of group thinking more than individual choice. If a coach moves from any club, they generally attract at least a core of existing players (and why there are strict rules about that in place from SCYS and CPL). But once a few leave, it usually means a team disbands, the lights come on and the team departs like cockroaches in the light.

There is an old maxim in this world that goes something like "you get what you pay for" and in general I would agree with that sentiment with one exception, and that is with a volunteer or person willing to work for less than the going market rate. Our success at a team level within our club usually isn't tied to the most expensive coach. Ironically we often pay professionals to take our lower level teams as those are the teams that are typically hardest to staff with qualified volunteers.
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#175739 - 01/23/19 07:35 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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CBSC junior academy has A flat fee. No extras for tournaments (2 per season), coaches room, team fees. Just one flat fee plus unis

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#175741 - 01/24/19 09:31 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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Let me tell you why we decided fixed price was a poor decision and opted to split variable and largely fixed costs in our fee structure. While I cede it certainly appears easy and direct, it is also a vehicle to increase revenue and margin when applied to items that are not alike.

For exmple, let's take Junior Academy as a talking point. This is typically comprised of U8 - U12 age groups and covers two major partitions in player development (7v7 and 9v9)

U8-U10 operate on smaller fields with single referee. The variable costs are less all around (league, tournament and referee).

U11-U12 jumps to three (3) man ref crew and while rosters do increase (by two) this does not fully offset the individual cost increase. League entry and Tourament costs rise over these age groups in addition to referees.

What does this all mean? Naturally U8-U10 pay more than they should or U11 - U12 pay less or a little bit of both. Or both pay more/less depending on other club costs and motive.

Reminds me of a recent example where I was over at our futsal location talking to the owner, and watching 7-8 Varsity aged volleyball girls training with 2-3 coaches in an entire gym in prime location. Knowing the cost of the facilities (in prime time and location) and player to coach ratio, I mused out loud to the owner that they must be paying a lot of cash to support that setup. He replied "Should have been here an hour ago, the 40+ 10-12 year olds are paying it."

Next problem with fixed price is variable offsets like team fundraising, donations, and club sponsors. It is not uncommon for teams to offset many of the variable costs with sponsorship or fundraising (raising thousands). Even at a club level we attract sponsors and return funds directly to our membership through uniform items and scholarships to directly reduce their burden (on additional cost). I'd be quite honestly shocked if we have more than 5% that didn't cover some part, or all of their variable/team costs.
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#175742 - 01/24/19 09:51 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
JenFal89 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
CBSC junior academy has A flat fee. No extras for tournaments (2 per season), coaches room, team fees. Just one flat fee plus unis


If you don't mind me asking, what is the flat fee? CBSC was the only club that I couldn't find the fee structure on their website. In researching clubs, most parents have an idea of what they are going to pay ahead of time (prior to evaluations) whereas CBSC doesn't list their fees that I could find.

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#175743 - 01/24/19 09:54 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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That's largely the club administration view.
A secondary reason we split variables out was choice and our liberal nature.

We can support play in different leagues and divisions, US Club or SCYS. And would like to support team choice and play where the team (with our advice as needed) sees as a best fit. Try not to dictate.

Similarly we recognize there are plenty of tournaments in SC and each has its own pros and cons. It's generally not one size fits all, so we want to offer choice of entry in this regard too. I do know some clubs mandate entry in their own tournaments that makes perfect sense to the club.
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#175744 - 01/24/19 10:08 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: JenFal89]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Originally Posted By: JenFal89
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
CBSC junior academy has A flat fee. No extras for tournaments (2 per season), coaches room, team fees. Just one flat fee plus unis


If you don't mind me asking, what is the flat fee? CBSC was the only club that I couldn't find the fee structure on their website. In researching clubs, most parents have an idea of what they are going to pay ahead of time (prior to evaluations) whereas CBSC doesn't list their fees that I could find.


From the main page>about us>club fees.pdf

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#175745 - 01/24/19 10:28 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Pretty sure the fees were out there before tryouts. I remember seeing them during a presentation last spring.

I'd expect the same this year, but you can always make a rough comparison of costs based on 2018/19 fees.

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#175746 - 01/24/19 10:30 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I didnt realize CBSC fees were so high.

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#175747 - 01/24/19 10:37 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Compared to Cainhoy, yes. Little higher than GPS. Little lower than USAMP

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#175748 - 01/24/19 10:42 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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is that fee the same regardless of what team you are on?

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#175749 - 01/24/19 10:45 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Meaning maroon/white/black equivalents?

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#175750 - 01/24/19 10:50 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
JenFal89 Online   content
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Sorry, I clicked around the website and must've just missed it. Thanks for providing the direction.

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#175751 - 01/24/19 10:56 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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yes,, regardless of black, yellow or white teams?

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#175752 - 01/24/19 11:05 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Believe so, but will look into it. Is there a hierarchical fee scale for GPS?

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#175753 - 01/24/19 11:23 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Yeah,, I think its $150-200 cheaper for white and black teams.. was just curious

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#175754 - 01/24/19 11:55 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Cainhoy Athletic]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Registered: 12/22/17
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Originally Posted By: Cainhoy Athletic
Let me tell you why we decided fixed price was a poor decision and opted to split variable and largely fixed costs in our fee structure. While I cede it certainly appears easy and direct, it is also a vehicle to increase revenue and margin when applied to items that are not alike.

For exmple, let's take Junior Academy as a talking point. This is typically comprised of U8 - U12 age groups and covers two major partitions in player development (7v7 and 9v9)

U8-U10 operate on smaller fields with single referee. The variable costs are less all around (league, tournament and referee).

U11-U12 jumps to three (3) man ref crew and while rosters do increase (by two) this does not fully offset the individual cost increase. League entry and Tourament costs rise over these age groups in addition to referees.

What does this all mean? Naturally U8-U10 pay more than they should or U11 - U12 pay less or a little bit of both. Or both pay more/less depending on other club costs and motive.

Reminds me of a recent example where I was over at our futsal location talking to the owner, and watching 7-8 Varsity aged volleyball girls training with 2-3 coaches in an entire gym in prime location. Knowing the cost of the facilities (in prime time and location) and player to coach ratio, I mused out loud to the owner that they must be paying a lot of cash to support that setup. He replied "Should have been here an hour ago, the 40+ 10-12 year olds are paying it."

Next problem with fixed price is variable offsets like team fundraising, donations, and club sponsors. It is not uncommon for teams to offset many of the variable costs with sponsorship or fundraising (raising thousands). Even at a club level we attract sponsors and return funds directly to our membership through uniform items and scholarships to directly reduce their burden (on additional cost). I'd be quite honestly shocked if we have more than 5% that didn't cover some part, or all of their variable/team costs.


Fair, but after seeing both, I am happy There is far less desire on the part of parents trying to seek certain teams within an age group or moving up etc... because one team, by virtue of their coach, offers more.

Speaking only at Junior Academy, everyone pays that flat fee. Every kid gets the same amount of training time, tournaments, etc... I believe this mitigates some infighting. This is not to say what is happening at CA isn't working, but relative to SSC, which was similar in system to CA, and CBSC, the system seems better.

Also, that may not be due to the flat fee. As for the cost, CBSC's price was a surprise, however, with the emphasis at the Junior Academy of supporting local tournaments, we saved money vs. years past with travel costs.

In some ways, CA, and clubs like it, take the approach of trusting the coaches to do what is in the best interest of the club, team and player. Occasionally, that might not happen, as CA also pointed out earlier.

CBSC is more top down. They have publicly stated they are looking to develop players for the Senior team. Therefore, their approach is different. Neither better or worse IMHO.

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#175755 - 01/24/19 01:43 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Speaking of local tournaments....saw the list for the Battery tournament so far... seems like it has grown. That is good!

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#175756 - 01/24/19 02:46 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
Speaking of local tournaments....saw the list for the Battery tournament so far... seems like it has grown. That is good!


Had not realized. Knew it would difficult to get local clubs with CPL playing that day. Saw some CA teams though, which is great!

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#175757 - 01/24/19 02:58 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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It is better in some ages than others. Definitely an issue that there are 2 local tournaments on the same weekend.

It is a shame that one of the local clubs needs 2 spring tournaments. Not sure if that is ego driven or out of financial desperation.

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#175760 - 01/24/19 03:21 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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As CA said, USAMP forces their teams to play both tournaments, another way to raise money from local parents.

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#175761 - 01/24/19 04:44 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: scsoccerfan123D]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Hard to blame them if it is working. Their tournaments are usually well run and well supported in my experience. The CPL schedule really helps the participating clubs that host tournaments because their blackout dates correspond. As long as they continue to get other non-CPL clubs for the sake of diversity, I see no reason for them to change.

I know for CBSC, the plan was to play in their own tournament and one outside one per season. For the younger kids, the Director felt there were plenty of local clubs to provide a sufficient game experience and that he thought it important to support those. I have not heard where my kids second tournament will be yet.

Just out of curiosity, besides JI and SSC/CBSC, what other Charleston area have historically hosted tournaments?

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#175762 - 01/24/19 05:07 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Cainhoy Athletic Online   content

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At one point, our league actually hosted end of season tournaments locally with the help of the member clubs. Usually piggy backing on existing events at JI and SSC (fall and spring).
Then MP put one on mid season and everyone happy (with 2 good local options and no conflicts at these events that were tailored for lower/mid level talent)

As more competitive events were added with focus on higher level, etc. this got really messy and lines blurred.
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#175763 - 01/24/19 06:19 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Shame that it morphed into MP putting on 2 mid season low/mid level events.

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#175764 - 01/24/19 06:24 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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One of the things that will be highlighted as more kids leave USAMP for CASC and CBSC will likely be the club forcing teams to play in 2 crummy USAMP tournies in spring. Def one of reasons mentioned by folks i know that already left.

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#175765 - 01/24/19 06:29 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I donít have a dog in the fight, but I canít blame them for hosting 2 tournaments. I am assuming they are making money,, or else they wouldnít do it. If the teams that entered felt like it was a tournament that was of low level, they could simply go somewhere else. Truthfully, I donít think many of the tournaments in this area are super strong,,, but that doesnít mean they are without merit!

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#175766 - 01/24/19 06:32 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Sure. I guess I'm talking about the parents at USAMP that are shackled to the tournies that still have to pay $600 x 2 to play the same teams they play in CsPL.

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#175767 - 01/24/19 06:38 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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It's aggravating when you see other teams play 2 tournies and one of them is MB or SAV or Greenville or CLT and you're stuck doing more fundraising by playing at a USAMP tourny and paying $100 extra dollars if you dont volunteer.

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#175768 - 01/24/19 06:39 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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*$100 per family

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#175769 - 01/24/19 06:39 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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So be it. I reckon it will change sooner than later.

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#175770 - 01/24/19 06:41 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
Yeah,, I think its $150-200 cheaper for white and black teams.. was just curious


How much do you pay annually for GPS all-included? Registration, team fees, club fees, etc.

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#175771 - 01/24/19 06:47 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I get it,,,, I do know there were parents at usamp that basically put their foot down and said no (at least they said they did),,,, and didnít play in the but 1 usamp tourney. They also said no, when usamp tried to bill them for that futsal fiasco they tried to do 2 years ago. Unfortunately, it may just take the parents basically standing up to them.

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#175772 - 01/24/19 06:54 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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$1225 per year.... covers all coaching fees, team fees and tournament fees. That gives you 4 tournaments and entry into the efc futsal league. I will say it is much much cheaper than usamps fees.. If a team goes to a 5th or 6th tournament itís an extra $100 per tourney.

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#175773 - 01/24/19 06:55 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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My younger is everything for $900 I think.... but all the same deal

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#175774 - 01/24/19 06:56 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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We were on a team that tried to get out of both and had to do/pay for both. It made for a bad soccer experience.

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#175775 - 01/24/19 07:06 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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I assume 2 of those tournaments are the GPS tournaments?

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#175776 - 01/24/19 07:12 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Not comparing it to the two USAMP tournies. GPS tournies are 1/2 the cost and likely better competition.

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#175777 - 01/24/19 07:16 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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My oldest did: 1) NASA preseason, 2) Ohio supercup, 3) Casl (or whatever itís called now). 4) Lexington 5) Jefferson Cup and will do 6) state cup....


Over the summer they typically do 2 out of state tourneys...there is an extra cost with these

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#175778 - 01/24/19 07:36 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
scsoccerfan123D Online   content
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Lexington and Ohio are the GPS tournaments? Did they do the GPS Florida tournament this winter?

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#175779 - 01/24/19 07:50 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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NASA did send teams to the Florida tourney... my sonís team went there last year. Lexington and Ohio are both gps as well. In years past they have done the discoveries tournaments,,,,, which are technically gps as well.

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#175781 - 01/25/19 10:02 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Alister DeLong Offline
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I'm not sure what age group your kids play but at what point are you worried about your kids getting burnt out? Playing 6-8 tournaments, 8-10 league games, summer futsal, winter futsal, camps...
I've been coaching older players for several years now and the amount of kids that get to their junior/senior year and are burnt out is alarming. I've seen so many kids lose the love of the game because it's been forced down their throat for so many years.
I think clubs are so scared that kids are going to leave and go to another one that they try to keep them busy and committed all year round instead of letting them be kids.

I've heard so many parents talk about how tired they are from all the time and travel....I wonder if they have stopped to think about how their kid feels?

Just my 2 cents.

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#175782 - 01/25/19 10:45 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
mysonsdad Online   content
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Coach,
I think that is a very valid point, and one that I cant argue with. Right now enjoys spending the time with his soccer friends and doesn't have any aspirations of playing college/ professional soccer. We always turn the tourney weekends into mini vacations. My oldest has played in 9 different states and Europe,,, so we have all seen places together that we otherwise would not have. So we have enjoyed it from that perspective.
I guess when he is done,,, he will be done. It has basically been a really expensive hobby...lol

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#175783 - 01/25/19 11:59 AM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: mysonsdad]
Alister DeLong Offline
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Loc: Lowcountry
I completely understand it. People always talk about how nice Asheville is and I always tell them I've been there 4 or 5 times and the view from the soccer field is very nice.

This "expensive hobby" brought me so life lessons and experiences that it's hard to put a value on. I went to college in Aiken and lived with guys from Grenada, Bahamas, Trinidad and Uganda... in Aiken SC. I would have never imagined that in my wildest dreams.

I'm not saying there is a right way or wrong way and every player is a case by case situation.

I like the vision of my current club with only playing two tournaments and the focus being on training and development. Once again, not saying it's the right or wrong way to do it.

I have enjoyed the conversation, even though I don't post much. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

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#175784 - 01/25/19 12:05 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Alister DeLong]
Shamrock Rovers Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Alister DeLong
I'm not sure what age group your kids play but at what point are you worried about your kids getting burnt out? Playing 6-8 tournaments, 8-10 league games, summer futsal, winter futsal, camps...
I've been coaching older players for several years now and the amount of kids that get to their junior/senior year and are burnt out is alarming. I've seen so many kids lose the love of the game because it's been forced down their throat for so many years.
I think clubs are so scared that kids are going to leave and go to another one that they try to keep them busy and committed all year round instead of letting them be kids.

I've heard so many parents talk about how tired they are from all the time and travel....I wonder if they have stopped to think about how their kid feels?

Just my 2 cents.


QFT

Have two sons. First one tried a bunch of sports but did not like competition nor contact. Joined the band. Great kid with great grades.

Second one has loved soccer from the beginning, but we take the summer off. Winter, he has his choice, plays futsal but no practice, just the games. Wanted to play basketball this winter.

Used to coach HS many years ago, and I too have seen really good players walk away from the game. it wasn't fun anymore.

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#175785 - 01/25/19 02:08 PM Re: Battery takes over SSC [Re: Shamrock Rovers]
mysonsdad Online   content
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I too like the banter,, and I too coached high school soccer years and years ago, so I am glad to see a little activity on this board.....twitter has basically killed forums like this.... Weve been lucky that despite all the soccer, both my boys play multiple sports (which I am a firm believer in).... They will eventually have to settle in and pick something,,, but so far they have been able to be competitive in all of them. We have no illusions of sports after high school, and despite all the money we have spent over the years, that was never the goal of any of it. It will end eventually and I guess I'll have a lot more time go fishing then....

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