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Good article on a very sore subject. I personally believe there are some clear advantages for the charter/magnet/private schools who are in smaller classifications (stats prove a clear lopsided result in favor of these schools against the traditional public schools), but I don't know if I'd be in favor of them having their own playoff. There's no clear way that will appease the masses or even the majority.


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It really depends on the sport. Not that Wando is a football powerhouse but they would destroy OCA or any other local prep football squad here in Charleston. Not to mention true big 5A heavyweights FD and Dutch Fork could probably use their JV squads to handle BE or Magnet. Florida and CA prep schools are a completely different story as most of those schools recruit and offer scholarship packages and job placement for families to relocate from around the country. As for soccer, it’s debatable on strength. I’m sure Coach Allister is confident his girls team could beat any 5A program in the area, the reality of that though may not be in his favor, who knows?

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It's a really interesting topic, and there is an pretty simple solution to the problem as well (which will keep the SCHSL from ever solving it): classify schools based on the number of athletes at that school.

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Originally Posted By: T. Robinson
It's a really interesting topic, and there is an pretty simple solution to the problem as well (which will keep the SCHSL from ever solving it): classify schools based on the number of athletes at that school.


What if the school has an abnormally large wrestling or cheer program? How do those athletes affect football classification or soccer for that matter?


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More accurately than a general student population count. And let's be honest - football programs have the most student-athletes than any other sport. Track might give them a go at some schools, but mainly football.

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There are a lot of answers; none of which are perfect. Number of athletes can be manipulated (number of team members vs number of student participants {people playing 2 or more sports})and in some cases it still won't matter. Oak Hill Academy in VA has 150 total students, but also had Rajon Rondo, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley and Josh Smith.

Why not just have all non-traditional schools moved to the SCISA? Cardinal Newman has done amazingly well there. Where did Zion Williamson go??? Turned out pretty well going to a SCISA school, which requires their students to play at least 1 sport and sounds a lot like some of these schools. It would be simple to have ALL non-traditional schools with no attendance boundaries play SCISA. They could still play any SC high school in the regular season.


An attendance multiplier won't necessarily work (see Oak Hill, Spartanburg Day, SVSM, etc) if all of your 600 students were recruited for playing athletics.


These school will sue, because in the end, they need to play in the SCHSL to win state titles to continue to be able to recruit away from the public high schools and make money. Schools like Bishop England, Academic Magnet, etc would also have to move. If you can say to a kid, "Come here, you will play 3A and win possibly 4-6 state titles which will help you get recruited to college..." Would you rather win state titles or not??? If you look at the modern NBA, you will see the answer.

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This is an age-old discussion that has significant relevance in the current environment of prep athletics. I believe everyone in this realm should do as much homework as possible and not let the rhetoric of today's society interfere with the arcane views of so many of the Palmetto State administrators and athletic directors.

Simply put, this is 2019, not 1979, and athletic departments are as large as they have ever been incorporating as many as 30 varsity sports under their umbrellas. Of course, this is a domino effect, because what might be popular in one geographic of the state is not prevalent in another. However, the day that "American football" rules is over. At least it should be. The sooner we see high schools move away from a football first mentality then the more prolific prep sports will remain (or even grow) because right now with all of the specialization of certain sports it has diminished the high school role. When prep coaches not involved with American football (of which I am a huge fan) demand equal pay, same off-season workouts, etc., then that overhaul will not be complete. That paradigm has gone the way of the Dodo Bird - it's just who is willing to stand up for split Athletic Director positions in this state? In fact, I would be all for an AD not having any coaching responsibilities, but realize that might be impossible in some rural areas.

States Continue to Address Competitive Balance of Schools

I would be for this form of promotion/relegation for each sport.

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Cox and the IHSAA are among the states to stray from multipliers, instead opting to author the success factor. In Indiana, the success factor, also known as Rule 2-5 of the IHSAA bylaws, states that if a school in any classification reaches six points or greater during the previous reclassification period (two-year cycle) in a specific sport’s tournament series, the school will be promoted to the next available higher enrollment class for the next reclassification period. Schools earn one point for a sectional championship, two points for a regional championship, three points for a semi-state championship and four points for a state championship.

I highly encourage you to scour the internet at how other states have addressed this issue. Personally, I wish the SCHSL, SCISA, and Independents were all combined and we would crown a true champion across the board instead of the multiple winners at each classification or level. I don't really care if a private school can attract students from a broad region due to its religious affiliation. I also don't really care that a mega high school in an ultra progressive and middle class and above area is better in some sports due to its' clientele. But, I do believe the time has come for promotion and relegation to exist in the American sports culture and what better place to introduce it than in the high school ranks.

Perhaps start with sports other than football, but definitely include that sport in the near future (i.e., after four years of displaying the merits in other sports).

Let's face it, all athletics no matter what level or particular sport are privy to the "have's" and the "have nots". It's just a fact. Take a look at the NFL, NBA, MLB, College Football, College Soccer, College Baseball, etc. Basically, it is the same teams historically and then periodically that are good in that realm

Oh well, enough from me but read up, study, and interject! Do not let this be a conversation for a select few to discuss!

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I agree with you completely that the days of football first are on their way out. Promotion/relegation would be ideal, but...
Asking for ADs that won't get rid of an archaic region system in favor of regional conferences for travel/competition, letting everyone into the state tournament in non-football team sports, eliminate PKs and end in ties (like every soccer league in the world); are never going to be willing to keep track of promotion/relegation in 25+ sports.

Many states have a multiplier, separate tournaments or in Indiana a promotion/relegation. Indiana was the last state to have 1 state title in every sport regardless of size (the movie Hoosiers was based off the real life Milan HS in Indiana).


But, I will respectfully disagree on one point... There are haves and have-not in professional/college sports. The difference is, they all play by the same rules. The same salary cap, the same amount of scholarships, the same free agency rules; within each individual sports league. At the high school level, traditional public schools are restricted by boundaries while non-traditional schools can recruit from anywhere. That is not a level playing field. If a person was the head coach at a non-traditional school and was the head coach for U13/U14 ENCL teams, they are completely able to recruit every one of those players to come play for them for free. What 3A public school in the state could compete with that? I'm not sure, but if we went sport by sport and totaled up the state championships; that non-traditional schools may be dominating at the smaller levels (3A and lower).

Non-traditional schools absolutely have a place in our educational system, but to say that the ability to recruit doesn't drastically enhance sports programs is not fair.

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I would love for SC Soccer to have a promotion/relegation system, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime as too many schools are still stuck in the 70s with their thinking regarding the athletic programs.

Any decision that they reach regarding the non-traditional schools playing in the SCHSL is going to get a ton of blowback because there isn't really a "fair" way, just adjustments that will hopefully help balance things across the board.

If a school can recruit students that are not zoned for that school, then surely they shouldn't be in the same class as schools just because of attendance figures. We have more than enough proof that it's not a fair playing field


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Fast forward to 37th minute. (Unless you want to listen to talk about football officials)

Nothing groundbreaking but somewhat interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfflv9pMEgI

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The remarks regarding American football losing ground in high schools or not being the driver in school athletics is completely incorrect. I’d challenge anyone that thinks that to attend a Friday night football game here in the low country...or Texas, Florida, California, etc. it’s an average night to sell 4K tickets to a FD or Summerville, or Berkeley game. I would encourage you to checkout QB1 on Netflix to see the attendance at some big powerhouse schools like Matre Day in CA or IMG in FL.

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I don't remember hearing him say that but I agree with you point. A below average football team will draw as many fans in one game as an above average soccer team does in a season.

QB1 is a GREAT show. I forget which season but one of the California teams traveled to NY and Flordia in the same season, which is crazy to me.

No matter how this shakes out, some schools are going to be left unhappy.
I don't see the high school league going to a sport specific solution so I don't foresee much changing.

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I agree with Chuck,,, People may not like it,,, but Football is still king in most schools. It pays the bills for the majority of the non-revenue sports. I agree with Coach Delong as well.... the schsl is not going to have a sport specific solution. As much as we would like to see it,,, there wont be a promotion/relegation system anytime in the foreseeable future. One school may be good in football,,, but not as good in soccer. Or vice-versa. It keeps travel cost down and it is easy to schedule if all sports are in the same region...... now for the original topic.... I definitely think Charter schools enjoy a distinct competitive advantage.... but best if I keep those comments to myself...lol

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Originally Posted By: SharksFutbol
I would love for SC Soccer to have a promotion/relegation system, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime as too many schools are still stuck in the 70s with their thinking regarding the athletic programs.


I have spoken to many about a Pro/Rel system. Even researched and studied a few other states with multipliers and similar ideas. Sadly, it is something that AD's will not move away from. Football is the primary breadwinner for school athletic departments. While I wish administrations were more open-minded, football and their supporters have helped in providing the venues at which we get to play the beautiful game.

The bigger question that would come about is, how would you divide gender up? (Specifically if we look just at soccer) Would you have them on seperate competition levels or would you put them together and combine them on a point system? Some schools would not be able to support that would probably be the argument from the SCHSL. I've had some ideas but unless you know someone or have pull yourself, no change will happen because no one will listen to soccer coaches.....

look at the ball situation as an example for that.

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10/6/19

Scoppe: In football and in academics, SC needs a level playing field
The Post and Courier (Charleston)

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Imagine the Legislature passed a law that said USC can only recruit football players who are South Carolinians, but Clemson can still recruit from across the country.

If that doesn’t strike you as grotesquely unfair, then imagine the reverse.

That’s the situation that high school coaches at traditional public schools have always faced when they go up against private, magnet and charter schools.

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A common misconception is that students may transfer to a charter school and become immediately eligible for athletics. This is only true for students from schools in their geographic district -- i.e. Gray Collegiate Academy (West Columbia) is listed as part of Lexington School District Two's geographic footprint, thus students from Airport HS (5.8 miles) or Brookland-Cayce HS (6.1 mi) may transfer in high school grades and become eligible and vice versa. However, a student from another school district would have to sit out a year just like any other transfer per SCHSL policy -- i.e. Lexington One's River Bluff HS is only 2.5 miles away from GCA, but since RBHS is LEX1, then that student would have to play JV for a year before eligible for varsity.

Now, a student that chooses to attend GCA from another district (anything other than Lexington Two) and enrolls at Gray as a 9th grader, then that student is eligible for varsity athletics immediately as they established their eligibility at GCA. If a student starts two weeks at another out-of-district school and then transfers as a 9th grader to Gray, then that student would only be eligible for JV that first year.

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So, please correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that these schools can recruit ANYONE until the first day of their freshman year? That is the problem and where the challenge is. It is not a level playing field. Imagine in the Greenville area (which is opening one of these schools in the near future) if the ECNL and NPL coaches for the boys and girls at the U12 and U13 groups were also the coaches at the new school. They could openly recruit the ENTIRE team to come play for them at a 2A/3A school. The transfer rule once they are in high school is not the issue, it's the ability to pull any kid from anywhere up until that point. That is RECRUITING, which no traditional high school in SC can legally do at any point.

Again, I believe that there is place for these schools. But they have a giant competitive advantage. Look at the All-State team for 2A girls last year and argue otherwise.

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It is truly apples to oranges. When 1 school has absolutely no attendance lines plays another school that is restricted by attendance lines.... it is simply not fair.

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Originally Posted By: Snicklefritz
So, please correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that these schools can recruit ANYONE until the first day of their freshman year? That is the problem and where the challenge is. It is not a level playing field. Imagine in the Greenville area (which is opening one of these schools in the near future) if the ECNL and NPL coaches for the boys and girls at the U12 and U13 groups were also the coaches at the new school. They could openly recruit the ENTIRE team to come play for them at a 2A/3A school. The transfer rule once they are in high school is not the issue, it's the ability to pull any kid from anywhere up until that point. That is RECRUITING, which no traditional high school in SC can legally do at any point.b

Again, I believe that there is place for these schools. But they have a giant competitive advantage. Look at the All-State team for 2A girls last year and argue otherwise.


This has been occurring in youth leagues (particularly football/basketball) for ages, i.e. in areas like Gaffney, Summerville, Union, Byrnes, Rock Hill.

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‘Gamesmanship’: Rock Hill public charter Legion Collegiate official talks SCHSL lawsuit
The Herald - 5/27/20

The SCHSL has since moved to have this lawsuit dismissed, public records show. The motion states that “the plaintiffs lack standing to bring this action against the defendants,” or, in other words, the plaintiffs don’t have legal rights to sue or challenge actions by the league over the issues in question.


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Hearing that should this lawsuit not be dismissed, then current members of SCHSL may commit the nuclear option. That is they may pull out of the SCHSL and then reform a new, private association. A similar process played out in Georgia recently.

In such a scenario, a private organization could exclude the charters and private schools. At least in theory. Probably looking at 2-3 years down the road though.

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Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Hearing that should this lawsuit not be dismissed, then current members of SCHSL may commit the nuclear option. That is they may pull out of the SCHSL and then reform a new, private association. A similar process played out in Georgia recently.

In such a scenario, a private organization could exclude the charters and private schools. At least in theory. Probably looking at 2-3 years down the road though.


While this may be an option, how many schools would actually do this? It might help in the long run but you know how stubborn people can be and how change is seen as a bad thing

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Originally Posted By: eMnAvA
Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers
Hearing that should this lawsuit not be dismissed, then current members of SCHSL may commit the nuclear option. That is they may pull out of the SCHSL and then reform a new, private association. A similar process played out in Georgia recently.

In such a scenario, a private organization could exclude the charters and private schools. At least in theory. Probably looking at 2-3 years down the road though.


While this may be an option, how many schools would actually do this? It might help in the long run but you know how stubborn people can be and how change is seen as a bad thing


Honestly, probably quite a few. The template for this process has already been laid out in Georgia. The Charters laid out a solid argument, that attendance zones are very inconsistent (some districts have an open attendance zone while others allow free transfers within district to school with unique programs of study. The charters would be at a decided disadvantage if located in those districts under this proposed policy.

I think the traditional public schools are out of options given the legislation in SC that protects Charters. I do not see this as being about right and wrong, but protecting the status quo. We see it with club soccer all the time. Are the adults making these decisions truly putting the interest of kids first, or their own?

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Charter schools win court battle against SC High School League. Here’s what that means
Lou Bezjak, The State (Columbia) | Alex Zietlow, The Herald (Rock Hill)

On Monday, a Richland County judge ruled in favor of the private and charter schools in their lawsuit against the South Carolina High School League.

Richland County Common Pleas Judge Jocelyn Newman granted the charter and private schools an injunction that would push back two amendments passed in March regarding school-to-school transfers and athletic eligibility rules.

Private and charter schools that are members of the S.C. High School League said they were unfairly targeted by the amendments.

“Plaintiffs have properly established that they would suffer irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted, that they will likely succeed on the merits of the litigation, and that no adequate remedy at law exists. This Court, having exercised its discretion, finds that injunctive relief is proper,” Newman wrote in her order.

Gray Collegiate principal Brian Newsome called the decision “huge,” a win not just for private and charter schools but for all students across the state.

“It is a great day for all students in South Carolina, private, charter, traditional,” Newsome said. “It is not just big for us. Huge for all districts in South Carolina. Some of the smaller districts were impacted as well. Everyone thought this was just between private and charter schools against everyone. That wasn’t the case.

“We knew we had a good, sound legal team and they did a great job presenting before Judge Newman. We are glad she looked at the true merits of the case.”

The State also reached out to the S.C. High School League for comment on the decision.

Private and charter schools that are members of the High School League sought a temporary injunction that would prevent recent amendments from going into effect for the 2020-21 school year, which begins on July 1. The amendments approved in March by the High School League were related to school-to-school transfers and athletic eligibility rules.

The lawsuit alleged that those amended rules “intentionally and illegally discriminate” against the league’s private and public charter high school members.

The SCHSL will have a chance to appeal if it wants to, but that move would have to be approved by the organization’s executive board. The parties are supposed to meet Tuesday to see what they will want to do.

Under one amendment that was approved in March, most students who transfer from a traditional school to a charter or private school would have to sit out a year before they would be eligible to play any for athletic team.

In previous years, students were allowed to transfer to any high school in the state by the ninth grade and be immediately eligible athletically, even if they lived outside that school’s attendance zone. With March’s amendment, any student who transfers would have to sit out a year before playing junior varsity or varsity athletics.

Such changes “bar most students who choose to attend a public charter or private school from participating in League athletics for a period of one year from enrollment,” the Public Charter School Alliance said in a statement on May 18.

After Monday’s ruling, neither of those amendments will go into effect for this school year.

The case began in the Greenville County system before being moved to Richland County after Judge Perry Gravely ruled June 2 in favor of the SCHSL, which requested a change in venue for the case.

The S.C. High School League has 206 members — that includes traditional public schools as well as 21 public charter schools and four private schools. Private and charter schools make up 12 percent of the membership but have racked up state championships in athletics in recent years, especially in Class A and Class 2A. Private and charter schools won 42 of 57 championships in Class A and 2A from 2017-19.

There were 12 schools named as plaintiffs in the suit, including Gray Collegiate Academy from the Midlands. The four private schools that compete in the S.C. High School League are part of the lawsuit — Bishop England, Southside Christian, Christ Church and St. Joseph’s — as are other charter schools including Greer Middle College, Brashier Middle College, Greenville Technical Charter, Fox Creek, Oceanside Collegiate, Legion Collegiate and Palmetto Scholars.

The Public Charter School Alliance of South Carolina, the membership organization for charter schools within the state, also was named as a plaintiff.

“Of course, this is the first obstacle, the first hurdle,” Legion Collegiate Academy principal Dr. TK Kennedy said. “And I just hope that everyone pretty much uses some common sense with this and does what’s best for kids. ... I’m just happy for the kids. We can allow these kids to play, to participate and not sit them out because of these amendments.”

The SCHSL had argued that the schools didn’t have legal rights to sue or challenge actions by the league over the issues in question.

Newsome said he looks forward to sitting down with the SCHSL to go come up with a permanent solution that would be beneficial for all parties.

South Carolina isn’t the only state in which there is an argument between public schools and non-traditional schools, but other states have come up with solutions to the issue. A poll conducted for the March 2017 issue of High School Today revealed that 21 state associations use a multiplier or other plan to level the playing field among their schools. Among those were Indiana, which uses success in postseason, and Ohio, which uses a competitive balance plan.

The SCHSL in the fall had a committee made of private, public and charter schools from all classes to discuss the issue of competitive balance. The committee discussed factors such as multipliers based on postseason and championship success, but no decision was reached.

Another amendment, which would put private and charter schools in their own playoff bracket, didn’t pass this spring.

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Wasn't the Principal at Rock Hill High School the author of this legislation? If so, I would love to hear his reaction to this ruling.

As a product of the Public School system, but a parent and proponent of Charter Schools and Private School education, I find this sort of 'general rule' entitlement belittling. Just because a school has existed since 1913 does not mean that what goes on inside its' doors is superior to a new concept, such as Legion Collegiate Academy. #LancesUp

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6/25/20
Lou Bezjak, The State

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▪ Singleton said no decision has been made yet on appealing Monday’s ruling in the league’s lawsuit with the private/charter schools members. Richland County judge Jocelyn Newman ruled in favor of the private and charter schools in their lawsuit against the SCHSL. Newman granted the charter and private schools an injunction that would push back two amendments passed in March regarding school-to-school transfers and athletic eligibility rules.

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SCHSL had an Athletic Directors meeting today, primarily to discuss Fall athletics. The lawsuit was on the agenda for discussion in Executive Session.

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