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Well, if you aren't cherry picking teams... We certainly cant exclude teams either. Gps didn't play their top teams in the Challenge League (except the 05's since there was no 05 piedmont on the Spring)...

Of course you will see many more CBSC teams in the Challenge league next year. They played their top teams in the PMSL against other clubs 3rd teams in what was a very watered down league. So naturally they would move up, well except for those 04's and 05's.

The irony is that when all the teams pull out for the SCCL, that challenge may be the same teams from the PMSL last year. Look at the the Challenge list for the 06 boys next year--6 of the 7 teams will be in the SCCL. Each other age group will be more than half leaving.

But we can compare CBSC to Gps
03's finished 1st in Piedmont.. 2nd in state cup
04's finished 3rd in Piedmont...3rd in state cup
05's finished 5th in Piedmont (Fall). Tied for 1st in
Challenge (Spring) and 2nd in state cup
06's finished 3rd in Piedmont... 3rd in state cup
07's finished first in Carolina Premier.

I honestly do think that CBSC has some good things going on and will probably improve in time (as long as their first team is able to stay around),,,,,, but I just dont understand the motivation of many CBSC members on this board or in the community. In the past year there have been entire pages devoted to criticizing USMAP, Cainhoy, GPS and even DISA a little for tons of things. (lack of field space, prices, coaches licenses, focusing on team development vs. individual, and even outright implied that usamp was being dishonest).

I just simply pointed out the CBSC had 2 of their 2nd teams move backward instead of forward.

I think that CBSC spent a little more time improving their own product instead of discrediting clubs that have been working successfully in this area for years, it might be better for everyone.

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Originally Posted By: mysonsdad
Well, if you aren't cherry picking teams... We certainly cant exclude teams either. Gps didn't play their top teams in the Challenge League (except the 05's since there was no 05 piedmont on the Spring)...

Of course you will see many more CBSC teams in the Challenge league next year. They played their top teams in the PMSL against other clubs 3rd teams in what was a very watered down league. So naturally they would move up, well except for those 04's and 05's.

The irony is that when all the teams pull out for the SCCL, that challenge may be the same teams from the PMSL last year. Look at the the Challenge list for the 06 boys next year--6 of the 7 teams will be in the SCCL. Each other age group will be more than half leaving.

But we can compare CBSC to Gps
03's finished 1st in Piedmont.. 2nd in state cup
04's finished 3rd in Piedmont...3rd in state cup
05's finished 5th in Piedmont (Fall). Tied for 1st in
Challenge (Spring) and 2nd in state cup
06's finished 3rd in Piedmont... 3rd in state cup
07's finished first in Carolina Premier.

I honestly do think that CBSC has some good things going on and will probably improve in time (as long as their first team is able to stay around),,,,,, but I just dont understand the motivation of many CBSC members on this board or in the community. In the past year there have been entire pages devoted to criticizing USMAP, Cainhoy, GPS and even DISA a little for tons of things. (lack of field space, prices, coaches licenses, focusing on team development vs. individual, and even outright implied that usamp was being dishonest).

I just simply pointed out the CBSC had 2 of their 2nd teams move backward instead of forward.

I think that CBSC spent a little more time improving their own product instead of discrediting clubs that have been working successfully in this area for years, it might be better for everyone.


Fair enough, although they were not the only club with teams to move backwards. Speaking only for myself, my criticism has less to do with any specific club. I simply responded to what I thought was an unfair comment and showed the entirety of the placements. Every metric that has shown CBSC in a positive light is always discredited here (League results, tournament results, rankings, etc...). Sure, each may be flawed, but they are more objective measurements than the tired League X > League Y because that's the one my sons club chose, and of course they would choose the better league.

My criticism has always been about what I believe is a negative overall league structure for the state by dividing a very limited resource into two separate leagues, one of which is purely exclusionary with absolutely no tangible qualifications. As parents, we will see things through the eyes of our sons or daughters lens. I work with parents of kids at USA/MP, Chas Utd, GPS, and JIYSC and I listen to what they say. Parents of daughters want more competition. The team pool at the younger ages is too small.

I have yet to meet a parent that doesn't want CBSC in their league, or at least the opportunity play against them (maybe shut a few of us up :-)', but perhaps they are being untruthful. Time will tell how CBSC does. I would say on the whole, they are happy with their retention rate, but would feel better if they were not so isolated. It is up to CBSC management to determine why they have been excluded and if a viable working solution can be made. I would say it is unreasonable of any CBSC parent to expect solutions to come from outside their own organization.

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well said.. I get it.. I cant really speak about the league. But I have heard from a few different people who in the local soccer scene and they have said that early on, the battery was unwilling to work with the local clubs. I think the perception is that the battery assumed because they were the "pro" club in the area that they would hold some sway. I dont have a clue if that is reality or not, but I do know that is the perception of the cbsc. I know trying to cherry pick kids from other clubs to go to the Dallas cup during their own season rubbed many clubs the wrong way. Whether the clubs should have been upset,,,, I cant speak to, but I can see why that wouldn't go over well.

I do wonder about the first teams attendance. I wonder if they have lost or gained fans by starting their own youth club.

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Mysonsdad remember the board was quiet. You fired up the discussion. You seem to be your own worst enemy.

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Haha. Touché

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Pro Stadium today... let see if there is even a pro team next year!

https://www.postandcourier.com/business/...c4bbe3e2c4.html

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Originally Posted By: Shamrock Rovers

*USA/MP may have had their top teams outside of the state leagues (i.e. NPL), if so, they would likely be better reflected here. I do not know if the same is true for any other clubs.


USA/MP had all their top boys teams in the NPL, if they didn’t you would have needed an extra row: USYSA National League - USA/MP - 5, everyone else 0.

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Meh. I thought that was already sold. Is there any new news or just anger and old stats about a booster club most kids dont play for? I wonder if this means some mean-spirited back room deal feel through for the executive director or that angry former board director.

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Old stats?

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A clarification, the NPL is NOT the USYSA National League. That row was not added because there are no traditional Coastal teams in that tier. And no, you cannot assume that all of those teams would have been in the National league (certainly not based on their NPL performance). The NPL is outside the USYSA umbrella. That said, those USA/MP teams would likely be in the Piedmont or Challenge, possibly National.

For those that view the forums but don't post, the USYSA umbrella looks like (from top to bottom):

National League
Regional League (here the Piedmont made up of teams from SC, GA, and NC)
Challenge (SC teams only)
PMSL (SC teams only)
Open (SC teams only)

This system is based on a promotion/relegation system as teams can earn they way up, or down, based on performance. All SCYSA member clubs can enroll teams in this league system. The admission and pro/rel criteria is publicly shared through SCYSA website.

USClubSoccer, has a similar pyramid here in the SC area (they do not have similar leagues to SCCL throughout the country though).

ECNL
NPL
SCCL Premier I
SCCL Premier II

This league structure is very different. The ECNL, NPL, and SCCL are club based with each club applying for admission. The criteria for admission varies at level and is not publicly shared. For example, every NPL age group is represented by the same 13 clubs. (My guess is GPS Carolina will take a slot from the merging of DSC and Lake Norman, but I do not know for sure if that is how their enrollment and that merger will play out).

There are several arguments of the relative strength of each format and league. Here in SC, the USClub leagues are arguably stronger. In Texas, for example, the state league is arguably stronger.

Which system is better is a whole different debate and would largely depend on what club you are at. Here in SC for example, USA/MP is in the NPL, SCFCU and CESA are in the ECNL. DSC had teams in both of those. GPS Charleston is anticipated to be in the NPL this coming season. So, for parents of kids at these clubs, there is a clear opportunity for high level play at every age group.

The downside to this structure is that the top teams at some clubs will not have an opportunity to advance. So for clubs like Cainhoy, DISA, Coast (unless their players are eligible to play at Wilmington), GPS Lexington, CFC, Bulls, Lakelands, and Augusta Arsenal, the best their players can aspire to is the SCCL Premier I. Those clubs in the NPL/ECNL will be represented there as well, but it will be there 'B' teams.

There are pros and cons to each, and how you view them will largely depend on what team and club your child plays for. The pros and cons for the clubs (and their directors are not likely to mirror the pros and cons of parents - nor should they).

Hope this helps

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