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#178912 - 09/28/21 09:50 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Phil Boyer Offline
Throw In

Registered: 02/14/17
Posts: 59
Assuming two yellows, deliberate handball preventing a goal, and/or a foul that prevents a goal-scoring opportunity all fall under the "Tier 1 - Tactical Foul" -- I would absolutely support that tier system.

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#178913 - 09/28/21 09:54 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Bluffton/McCarthy Offline
Bench

Registered: 11/07/18
Posts: 2
I agree this is reasonable.

Also, I realize that there is a severe shortage of refs, but I think there needs to be a way for coaches to evaluate/rate Centers/ARs per match (likewise refs for coaches). I realize that the losing team will sometimes feel jaded by perceived poor calls, as well as the winning team giving rave reviews, but there needs to be some sort of umbrella of accountability and standard to ensure a fair match is called. Obviously, they are not infallible and mistakes will be made, but mitigation of those calls would be the goal.
In my four seasons at Bluffton, we have been, dare I say victimized, by refs playing after our boys squad with their ridiculous antics. Some would say, “That is an internal issue”’ which it may be, but at the moment the girls have been penalized solely for playing at the same school. There is also the ramifications of playing outside one’s area and the biased approach some refs take towards their area’s team.
I guess the point is, with the way the officiating situation currently is there will be less qualified personnel doing matches, so why not institute a checks and balances system to reward the highly rated officials with higher pay. At minimum there’s some sort of incentive for a fairly called match. Idk, maybe I’m way off base and this is a ridiculous proposal. &#129335;&#8205;&#9794;&#65039; I apologize for the soap box.

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#178915 - 09/28/21 10:06 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Snicklefritz Offline
Goal Kick

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 165
It is better than what we have. Only change I would like to see is 1 game for profanity. A kid cussing vs a kid breaking another kid's leg due to a violent foul (serious foul play) are completely different things.
To Bluffton/McCarthy's point, I think that coach input should be used to maybe award the better refs with playoff games. Going to be difficult to pay more, simply because I don't think AD would pay for it. But give them recognition by getting playoff games and/or the state final games with coach input.

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#178916 - 09/28/21 10:24 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Kevin Heise Online   happy

World Cup

Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 6416
Loc: Cayce
Georgia HS Association

One-Game Sit Out:
- Two Yellow Cards in the same game.
- Deliberate handball to prevent a goal
- Red Card for a foul on a player moving toward his goal in a scoring situation

Two-Game Sit Out with Red Card for any of the following: taunting, violent conduct, serious foul play, spitting on another person, foul or abusive language, leaving the bench are for a fight situation.



Edited by Kevin Heise (09/28/21 10:41 AM)

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#178918 - 09/28/21 10:40 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Kevin Heise Online   happy

World Cup

Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 6416
Loc: Cayce
North Carolina HS Association

Soccer Player/Coach Protocol

Inappropriate language/profanity - Automatic Unsportsmanlike - Yellow Card issued
- Unsporting foul on the team bench - charged to the Head Coach
- Immediate ejection
* Two-game suspension
* Completion of NFHS "Teaching and Modeling Behavior" course before returning to coaching duties

Assistant Coaches Contesting Calls
- Unsporting fould on the team bench - Yellow Card issued to the Head Coach
- 1 of 2 unsporting fouls charged to Head Coach
- On second offense, Head Coach is ejected - Red Card issued

Any player displaying verbal or physical dissent to an official
- Immediate Yellow Card issued
- 1 of 2 allowed for match disqualification

Any physical or verbal display in a negative/demonstrative manner by a school administrator
- Stop the game and warn
- Second Offense - Game suspended until the administrator leaves the area


Edited by Kevin Heise (09/28/21 10:41 AM)

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#178919 - 09/28/21 10:43 AM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Kevin Heise Online   happy

World Cup

Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 6416
Loc: Cayce
Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association

One game suspension for a tactical foul.
Two game suspension for fighting, foul language, violent fouls.

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#178921 - 09/29/21 11:21 PM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Coach Chass Online   content
Coach

Registered: 05/09/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: Charleston/Berkeley
I would like to see a distinction between profanity that is incidental and foul and abusive language intentionally directed at another individual.

I am not a fan of profanity on the field and I am a big proponent of self-control during a match. However, here is my big problem with the whole current penalty system and the fallacy of the logic behind it.

When we went from minimum one-game suspension to minimum two, the explanation was, "We're getting too many ejections, so we're upping the penalty."

When we went from minimum two-game suspension to minimum three-game suspension, the explanation was again, "We're still getting too many suspensions, so we're upping the penalty again."

This logic seems to be based on the premise that players are committing fouls because the penalties aren't severe enough to convince them not to commit the fouls. That, in turn, is based on the premise that teenagers, in the heat of the moment in a physical and emotional contest, are always weighing and processing actions vs. consequences, including weighing the degree of those consequences, and making clear, deliberate decisions based on those factors.

Yeah. Sure. Or maybe there's another reason that upping the number of games in the penalty didn't have the desired effect the first time.

If we're going to try to correct a problem in behavior, we need to understand some things about human behavior.

A large number of the card-inducing fouls we see in games are not deliberate, calculated decisions by players. They are knee-jerk reactions to a situation that happen before the rational side of the brain ever has a chance to engage. A player or a teammate gets hit, a ball is about to go into the net, a hard challenge--split-second reactions. It wouldn't matter in the moment of commission if the penalty was one game, or three, or five, or twelve, or a hundred and eleventy-seven, because THAT PART OF THE BRAIN IS NOT ENGAGED in the decision-making process.

We know that in ourselves even as adults.

A three-game penalty is, in some cases, a third or more of a team's region schedule. It can be a season changer. Enforced to change a behavior that, based on basic knowledge of human behavior, IT CANNOT EFFECTIVELY CHANGE.

Add to that the fact that officiating is, by nature, somewhat subjective--play that is accepted and even encouraged by some crews results in whistles and cautions from others. Given that, enforcing a three-game suspension for two yellows seems even more unreasonable, since there is no clear and consistent conditioning of players on what does or does not constitute unacceptable behavior that will lead to the punishment.

Here's another false premise in the current system--the idea that players need bigger penalties because they are ok with one or two-game suspensions. I don't know many players who are just "ok" with sitting out a game--even ONE game. One time, not being out there competing with their team, is NOT "ok, no big deal." Again, they're just not processing that equation in the moment.

The way to change behaviors is by consistent conditioning--repetitive reinforcement until habits are built or changed. Rather than have one big, disproportionate, and inappropriate-for-the-behavior penalty, let's go back to reasonable, appropriate consequences AND ENFORCE THEM CONSISTENTLY.

Rather than put an official in a moral dilemma--either show the card, knowing the player will receive a penalty far disproportionate to the foul, or keep the card in the pocket and let the poor behavior continue unchecked until it actually turns into something much worse--why not give officials the freedom to call 'em as they see 'em, with confidence that the players will receive consequences that are actually appropriate for their actions? I know officials are tasked with making calls based entirely on the rules, without consideration to the consequences, but officials are human beings too, not machines. Giving a player a caution for a hard challenge might help to get a game under control and increase player safety, but if you know it also means that player gets a three-game suspension you don't believe he truly deserves, what choice do you make?

Yes, we might see an increase in the number of one-game suspensions--until the consistent conditioning begins to change the behavior. And that's ok. If the object is to have fewer suspensions, that's easy--just don't address the behavior at all and there will be no suspensions. If the object is to change the behavior, though, then consistent, reasonable, and appropriate consequences are the way to go.

Sorry for the long post...off my soapbox now.
_________________________
I've got good news and bad news...

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#178930 - 10/13/21 12:25 PM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Kevin Heise Online   happy

World Cup

Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 6416
Loc: Cayce
Do you have any thoughts on any of these rulese/regulations posted in the SCHSL handbook? If so, please explain.

SCHSL Rules & Regulations
BOYS AND GIRLS SOCCER

1. The South Carolina High School League will sponsor a championship in each classification that has at least twelve of its schools participating. If this requirement is not met, schools may enter the tournament of the next higher classification.

2. National Federation rules will be used in all games.

3. The varsity head coach must attend a South Carolina High School League sponsored rules clinic.

4. All coaches must be CPR & AED certified. All coaches must verify with their principal completion of the online courses “Concussion in Sports”, “Heat Illness Prevention”, “Sudden Cardiac Arrest” and ``Protecting Students from Abuse” found at www.nfhslearn.com.

5. If a school is participating in a preseason tournament more than seven days prior to its first regular season game the certificate of eligibility must be submitted before participation in this tournament.

6. All classes are allowed 26 games, two scrimmages and one jamboree. Sub-varsity teams are allowed 24 games, one scrimmage and one jamboree. The games can be any combination of tournaments (to include preseason) and regular season games Preseason play can only be in tournaments. A student has the same limitations on playing as does a team.

7. Students will be restricted to one game per day except they may play in two games in one day in an invitational tournament. There must be a minimum of one-hour rest between games.

8. No match may end in a tie. During the regular season there will be two full five-minute overtime periods. If a tie still exists, penalty kicks by anyone on/off the field will determine the winner.

9. The girls and boys will use two full ten-minute overtime periods during the play-offs. If a tie still exists, two five-minute sudden victory overtime periods will be used. If still tied, penalty kicks will determine the winner. (National Federation Soccer Rules Book)

10. In the event a soccer game is called prior to completion of one half because of conditions, which makes it impossible to continue play, the game will be resumed from the point of interruption.

11. Schools must use officials that are certified by the South Carolina High School League Office. Instructions for postponing or canceling games for which certified officials are booked are printed on page 77.

12. Gate receipts will be disbursed according to the financial statement in the Athletic Directors Notebook.

13. The South Carolina High School League will furnish trophies and medals to the State Champion and Runner-up in each competing class.

14. A tournament is a series of contests in competition for a championship in which at least 1st & 2nd place is decided by a final contest between the two teams. Schools must now submit tournament format i.e., brackets as part of the sanctioning process in basketball, baseball, softball, lacrosse, tennis and soccer.

15. Refer to pages 1-26 for additional regulations.

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#178931 - 10/13/21 12:37 PM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Snicklefritz Offline
Goal Kick

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 165
Eliminate 8. Games should end in a tie after regulation. Point system used for region standings (3 = win, 1 = draw, 0 = loss). Soccer everywhere in the world plays this way and the sport should be respected. State tournament rule is fine (#9).
Add that upper state/lower state finals will be played at neutral site venue (like basketball).

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#178932 - 10/13/21 12:37 PM Re: General Prep Soccer / HS Questions [Re: Kevin Heise]
Coach JB Offline
Corner Kick

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 310
Not listed, but there are many uniform combinations that include white stripes or white sleeves. With all white currently being required as the away uniform, can we look to:

A. allow light color/non conflicting away uniforms, or

B. require home uniforms to not include white in the jersey (numbers and logo being the exception)

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